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[SneakersSO]

Nintendo making it up would be grounds for a lawsuit, and Rapp has already admitted she had a second job. Whether or not Nintendo used the second job violation as a convenient excuse to fire here amidst the GG shit can't be proven but it's easy to see why one would come to that conclusion.

You're right. Nintendo is definitely not making it up. But considering how all of this has played out, particularly by GG (them digging up all this shit on her life & flinging it all over the internet for everyone to see), I am surprised this 2nd job was never caught by any of those assholes.

 

[diaspora]

A major company denouncing harassment would set a precedent for other companies to follow.

Like I said, it would have done nothing. The naïvete behind the assumption that a press release denouncing harassment is capable of accomplishing anything tangible is ridiculous. They should have done it and it wouldn't have done anything.

 

[73V3N]

People are giving too much credit to "GG" or whatever you call it.
Anyone should know that stuff you do online actually has an impact in your job/future job, and the fact she said those things (out of context or not) using her account with a description that links her to Nintendo just makes everything worse.

 

[GatticusFinch]

Why not do this? Why not just make a statement about the harassment being wrong and give Alison Rapp a final warning of some sort?

It DOES set a precedent. This is a terrifying notion to any woman who wants to be involved in the game industry. Think beyond just Nintendo for a second.

Maybe Gamergate is meaningless outside the game community. But Nintendo IS A GAME COMPANY. When Gamergate begins to actually affect the employment status of employees in the industry, then we absolutely have a problem on our hands.

This is a pretty distinguishable event, frankly. I doubt many women are going to be publicly tweeting things on the subjects she did. I am 100% convinced that if she had never made those statements, Nintendo would have come to her defense, but they could not do it from a business perspective once the child porn stuff was brought up. Her statements put Nintendo in a lose/lose situation, so they chose the easiest route.

GG didn't get Allison Rapp fired. GG caused greater attention to be drawn to her statements, and that is what got her fired. She didn't get fired over made up game localization bullshit, she got fired because she had a Twitter account and used it to the detriment of her employer.

 

[sir_kevith]

No, I do not. I think Nintendo acts like the vast majority of corporations and only looks into an employee's stances/behavior outside of the workplace when it is brought to their attention, usually in an accusatory manner.

In this case, Allison actually had her thesis up on her own LinkedIn page for years and no one took notice of it, certainly not within Nintendo. And you're right, they won't give a rats ass what the nuance of the argument or whatever it may be if it could produce a headline like "Nintendo employs child pornography defender".

Thanks, yeah I agree.

 

[akidnamededdy]

This is incredibly disingenuous and massively minimizing the actual harm that was done against Rapp.

This isn't one guy being a shithead. This is an entire mob of people constantly harassing, doxxing, and abusing not only her but her family and her employers as well, trying their best to obstruct both her personal and professional life.

Yes, it's sad but true that most companies wouldn't do anything. You're missing the incredulous "how fucked up is that?" part at the end.

Let me be clear that I'm not trying to downplay the shitty tactics that GG employs or the traumatic effects they've had on people's lives.

It's not Nintendo's job to address them or deal with them. That falls to law enforcement. If anyone needs their feet held to the fire over this, it's them. And platforms like Twitter. But I digress.

COULD Nintendo have said something sooner? Yes. But trying to paint them with the same brush as the mouth-breathing social rejects who got this whole ugly ball rolling is asinine.

 

[RichiRamjag]

this whole threadthis whole thread is filled with hyperbolic nonsense.

Nintendo can't protect you from online harassment. they cant. they have said many times before harassment is wrong. they even said it again yesterday.

The victim of said harassment herself said Nintendo isnt to blame! there are obviously confidential things that went on to where she felt good enough about Nintendo to not come out and trash them, yet evetyone seems to keep trying to make it into Nintendo is the problem.

mind you who knows what they have done for her or are doing for her, but as usual the internet cyber mob gets going it doesn't stop.

and i dont think they have "cultural power". they are a fucking video game company, theire power extends about as far as NOA.

and this entire issue of online harassment goes well beyond videogames, its an issue with social media itself and online personas.

we saw it with MS and live, how thats a cesspool of shitty racist, homophobic kids, we saw it to a lesser extent in Home on PS.

no corporation is going to protect you from social media bullies, just like no company will protect you from real life bullying which does not happen on their property.

so instead of complaining about a video game company, boycotting a videogame company, boycott facebook or Twitter, the companied enabling these groups, which have tons of money being made from these groups and behavior.

but no, none will do that because that would have and actual effect on their own lives.

Well said. Harassment takes place on Twitter, but no one calls to leave Twitter in a mass exodus. Twitter has made it clear that they tolerate such behavior. Facebook as well.

 

[moondoggerr]

Wha...? Do you live in a cave? This is celeb gossip, paparazzi culture. Nothing new. Just the other week we had the trial of Hulk Hogan for that sex tape. Have you forgotten?

Man, it sounds like you really love this brave new world of ours. Personally, I like one where we treat people with respect and dignity.

 

[marrec]

A major company denouncing harassment would set a precedent for other companies to follow.

Apparently basic expectations of social responsibility are naive, even though many companies have already set precedent in other industries and Blizzard has specifically condoned this exact kind of harassment.

 

[palpabl_purpura]

Just wanted to clarify things. I'm a contacted employee, and so I must point out certain offenses will get you fired. Doesn't matter if you agree with them or not and some things are very vague. Best to error on the side of caution.

Specifically in my contract as forbidden:

1) a second job/source of employeement. This takes potential revenue away and productivity away from the corporation.

2) any action that brings negative or unwanted attention to the corporation initiated or instituted by the employee is a fireable offense. So when the boss says dont tweet xyz, then dont tweet xyz. Use social media conservatively! If the boss says no tats or piercings then don't get tats and piercings. You are the face of the corporation and that's what they want. Dont Like it? Dont sign the paper.



3) different people have different contracts. Don't assume what the guy down the hall does is okay for you to do.

At the end of the day, the employer has the right to enforce the contract. Like it or not.

 

[tfur]

The thesis is right here. I had never heard of this until last night, and I thought I would do my due diligence and read this paper. It starts at page 32 in the viewer app.

https://issuu.com/honorsreview/docs/volumeiv/6

In regards to the thesis...

I am completely pro free speech, and can understand her trying to wade through the weeds of thought crimes and real crimes.

There is a lot in this paper that I do not agree with, since children have the weakest voice and probably weakest recorded statistics.

After reading this, I can see the problem Nintendo PR would have with this employee.

 

[Bright]

Man, it sounds like you really love this brave new world of ours. Personally, I like one where we treat people with respect and dignity.

I don't think that world ever has existed, nor will it. Sorry.

 

[diaspora]

Apparently basic expectations of social responsibility are naive, even though many companies have already set precedent in other industries and Blizzard has specifically condoned this exact kind of harassment.

I already said they could and should have made a statement/press release. I'm also not crazy enough to think it would help anything.

 

[SneakersSO]

You absolutely can't fault Nintendo in particular for a "less welcoming "environment for women.
They have entire dedictated series to get women into their systems (Animal Crossing, their new Style boutique series among many, many other series that are targeting males and females equally).

Anything else would be disingenious.

I mean, Nintendo was the first publisher in the gaming industry to trout out a woman executive on their E3 press conference stages (Cammie Dunaway, for those who have forgotten) to present news. And that was before call-out culture for these sorts of things took hold in the press.

 

[BiggNife]

People are giving too much credit to "GG" or whatever you call it.
Anyone should know that stuff you do online actually has an impact in your job/future job, and the fact she said those things (out of context or not) using her account with a description that links her to Nintendo just makes everything worse.

You cannot tell me with a straight face that a dude would have gotten the same amount of scrutiny Rapp has for the stuff she's said.

And if you just googled her name and found that screencap of those two tweets that imply she's pro-pedophilia, for the 10000th time those tweets were taken out of context and pushed to the top of google through gamergate SEO. Which pretty much proves GG is to blame here.

The thesis is right here. I had never heard of this until last night, and I thought I would do my due diligence and read this paper. It starts at page 32 in the viewer app.

https://issuu.com/honorsreview/docs/volumeiv/6

In regards to the thesis...

I am completely pro free speech, and can understand trying to wade through the weeds of thought crimes and real crimes.

There is a lot in this paper that I do not agree with, since children have the weakest voice and probably recorded statistics.

After reading this, I can see the problem Nintendo PR would have with this employee.

The thesis was written before she was a Nintendo employee and posted on her LinkedIn page. If Nintendo had a problem with it then they shouldn't have hired her to begin with. It doesn't add up.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

You absolutely can't fault Nintendo in particular for a "less welcoming "environment for women.
They have entire dedictated series to get women into their systems (Animal Crossing, their new Style boutique series among many, many other series that are targeting males and females equally).

Anything else would be disingenious.

I 100% can and do fault them. They are at the root of the problem, and them making some small efforts at outreach to the sorts of demographics they had long deliberately excluded does not make up for their past behavior.

They're not solely responsible, as many other major industry companies picked up and ran with the same exclusionary tactics, but they absolutely have responsibility for this situation.

 

[n0razi]

Man, it sounds like you really love this brave new world of ours. Personally, I like one where we treat people with respect and dignity.

Well one actually exists and the other is a fairy tale

 

[marrec]

I already said they could and should have made a statement/press release. I'm also not crazy enough to think it would help anything.

I'm not referencing you diaspora, I actually 85% agree with what you posted.

 

[SneakersSO]

Honestly, even seeing those tweets, I think at worst it should have just been a slap on the wrist and an order to be silent on those topics for the remainder of her career as a representative of the company.

According to Allison, within a month of being employed at Nintendo, they asked her to stop tweeting on controversial topics such as rape culture. She's been employed there for years, and some of her last tweets regarding decriminalized CP are as recent as 6 months ago. She has never shied away from discussing her opinions, however controversial some of them may be,

 

[TheOMan]

I feel like Vincent Grayson really got to the core of the issue. The failure of the game industry as a whole to actually do something about it.



All they needed to do was make a statement of some sort regarding the harassment of their employees and how it is not accepted, and that the game community as a whole should reject it.



Why not do this? Why not just make a statement about the harassment being wrong and give Alison Rapp a final warning of some sort?

It DOES set a precedent. This is a terrifying notion to any woman who wants to be involved in the game industry. Think beyond just Nintendo for a second.

Maybe Gamergate is meaningless outside the game community. But Nintendo IS A GAME COMPANY. In some respects they are indirectly responsible for helping sow the seeds of GG. There was a whole video a while back talking about how their marketing of video games as "boys' toys" were factors that led to games becoming such a boys' club. When Gamergate begins to actually affect the employment status of employees in the industry, then we absolutely have a problem on our hands.

Once this hit Fox News, CNN, etc, do you think that would have helped in any way? The sound bite would have been something like "Nintendo supports pro-child porn employee" guaranteed because you know that's gonna attract eyeballs.

However, I do agree that it sets a bad precedent - but I still don't see how else Nintendo could have reacted here that would not materially damage the brand.

According to Allison, within a month of being employed at Nintendo, they asked her to stop tweeting on controversial topics such as rape culture. She's been employed there for years, and some of her last tweets regarding decriminalized CP are as recent as 6 months ago.

Yeah, that's not a good look, but at least she's being rather honest about it.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Well, this thread is proof to me that women in this industry will never be treated with any form of respect and assholes will continue to do what want without consequence.

 

[moondoggerr]

Well one actually exists and the other is a fairy tale

And yet I will still personally refrain from posting lies about women I don't know on the internet. I'm just doing my little fairy tale part.

 

[73V3N]

You cannot tell me with a straight face that a dude would have gotten the same amount of scrutiny Rapp has for the stuff she's said.

Are you serious? I guy with taken-out-of-context tweets about being pro-pedophilia would have been fired months ago

 

[diaspora]

I'm not referencing you diaspora, I actually 85% agree with what you posted.

Fair enough, I'm sorry.

Well, this thread is proof to me that women in this industry will never be treated with any form of respect and assholes will continue to do what want without consequence.

The onus is really on Twitter for this. Nintendo should have put out a statement, but change requires the platform holder- Twitter to take action.

 

[oswaldwen]

Like I said, it would have done nothing. The naïvete behind the assumption that a press release denouncing harassment is capable of accomplishing anything tangible is ridiculous. They should have done it and it wouldn't have done anything.

I would care to disagree. A company like nintendo saying "no your not gonna get your way GG and were not gonna let you bully our employees" would probably inspire other companies to also follow suit. It would discourage internet harassers from doing what they do, instead of positively reinforcing there behavior. Essentially GG was "rewarded" for there shitty behavior by this situation which encourages them to keep trying these tactics on people.

 

[Jelly Rajah]

I read the thesis this morning. It's really does not reflect well on her to be honest.

 

[joedick]

Once this hit Fox News, CNN, etc, do you think that would have helped in any way? The sound bite would have been something like "Nintendo supports pro-child porn employee" guaranteed because you know that's gonna attract eyeballs.

However, I do agree that it sets a bad precedent - but I still don't see how else Nintendo could have reacted here that would not materially damage the brand.

This is not a black and white issue. It is possible that Nintendo had reason to fire this employee. However, we can still feel that Nintendo did not do enough to protect its employee in the lead up and take a firm stance against harassment. That is what disappoints me as a Nintendo fan.

 

[diaspora]

I would care to disagree. A company like nintendo saying "no your not gonna get your way GG and were not gonna let you bully our employees" would probably inspire other companies to also follow suit. It would discourage internet harasser from doing what they do instead of positively reinforcing there behavior.

There is literally no reason for me to reasonably believe this as being even close to being plausible.

 

[SneakersSO]

You cannot tell me with a straight face that a dude would have gotten the same amount of scrutiny Rapp has for the stuff she's said.

And if you just googled her name and found that screencap of those two tweets that imply she's pro-pedophilia, for the 10000th time those tweets were taken out of context and pushed to the top of google through gamergate SEO. Which pretty much proves GG is to blame here.

The thesis was written before she was a Nintendo employee and posted on her LinkedIn page. If Nintendo had a problem with it then they shouldn't have hired her to begin with. It doesn't add up.

Nintendo was likely fully unaware on the thesis or her stances on such matter. Companies do not dig that far in to a person's life when hiring them. They were probably only made aware of them when it was brought to their attention by outside forces.

There was a guy who actually came under INTENSE scrutiny after The Guardian published a paper of his (under a surname, ofc) where he came out being pro-pedophilia, and that society should be more pro-pedophilia in general. The Guardian was taken to task over this. They even published a fellow up article from the same author.

 

[SturokBGD]

Something worth noting - the fact that nobody outside of enthusiast video games communities even know or care about Gamergate is part of the reason they're so vitriolic.

"It's my ball and I'm going home".

 

[marrec]

Are you serious? I guy with taken-out-of-context tweets about being pro-pedophilia would have been fired months ago

This is, at least, very true.

Any dude is going to receive more scrutiny when it comes to matters of pedophilia.

HOWEVER

Any dude is also going to receive LESS scrutiny from GamerGate.

 

[diaspora]

This is not a black and white issue. It is possible that Nintendo had reason to fire this employee. However, we can still feel that Nintendo did not do enough to protect its employee in the lead up and take a firm stance against harassment. That is what disappoints me as a Nintendo fan.

Protecting Rapp falls upon Twitter as the platform holder. Nintendo ought to have made a statement denouncing harassment in solidarity with her, but this is more of a peripheral issue.

 

[oswaldwen]

There is literally no reason for me to reasonably believe this as being even close to being plausible.

Nintendo is a big leader in the games industry there company policy decisions may effect other company policy decisions. These companies dont exist in a vacuum.

 

[wildfire]

Considering anything you put on the Internet as "private" in any way is a common and dumb mistake.

There is plenty of stuff connected to the internet that is and should remain private.

Bank account
Medical records
Everything you save on your personal computer and nowhere else....

 

[Joelstinton14]

I haven't read the the thesis, and not prepared to debate it on potentially out of context quotes, but surely Nintendo would have picked up on her thesis when she applied for the job herself. Wouldn't it been on her CV? ( i don't mean that in negative light, i'm suggesting they would have been aware of it and it's content - which suggests they were happy or didn't think it affected her position as an employee. I know the title of mine is on my CV.

Big companies such as Nintendo, or Apple etc do extensive research into the people they employ, i would be surprised if they were unaware of the thesis to begin with or at least brought up due to her education record. Her, mine, or other peoples disseratisons would be freely available to read as well ( i believe they are submitted to a database or readily available to read)

 

[palpabl_purpura]

According to Allison, within a month of being employed at Nintendo, they asked her to stop tweeting on controversial topics such as rape culture. She's been employed there for years, and some of her last tweets regarding decriminalized CP are as recent as 6 months ago. She has never shied away from discussing her opinions, however controversial some of them may be,

The corporation does not want that attention. So when they say dont tweet it,then dont tweet it. They can terminate depending on the language in her contract. Truthfully if you are a professional and don't have to use social media, then dont. If you do have to use social media, keep it strictly professional.

 

[Brakke]

When we're talking about that change being as low as 13, then yes, it does become a problematic viewpoint to many who take issue with pedophilia. Again, its not that she IS a pedophile, but rather, that her viewpoints are defending & supporting aspects of pedophilia culture that so many take issue with.

This whole idea of "support" is kind of baffling to me. Unless there are things I'm not aware of, she's not lobbying her congresspeople nor filing amicus briefs to court or anything. The actual activity here is some tweets. This situation doesn't even rise to the level of advocacy, and certainly doesn't constitute "work" except in the very softest sense of the word. Do we imagine that some predator is seeing her tweets and then "activated" or emboldened?

What is the material result of her talking about these things? What does she intend to accomplish? Stakes are so low in this context.

 

[Portugeezer]

There is plenty of stuff connected to the internet that is and should remain private.

Bank account
Medical records
Everything you save on your personal computer and nowhere else....

And if you want to be private you can make your twitter account (etc) private. If you don't, then it's not private.

 

[Gestault]

Man, it sounds like you really love this brave new world of ours. Personally, I like one where we treat people with respect and dignity.

They weren't saying "this stuff is good," they were saying how that pattern of behavior isn't limited to gaming.

 

[diaspora]

Nintendo is a big leader in the games industry there company policy decisions may effect other company policy decisions. These companies dont exist in a vacuum.

Nintendo's decision to or to not put out a press release doesn't affect other companies HR practices because of their position in the industry.

 

[ebullientprism]

Are you serious? I guy with taken-out-of-context tweets about being pro-pedophilia would have been fired months ago

Yep.

Would he have been in the spotlight like she was? Not really. But if it ever came to light, he would be fired before the day ended. And he wouldnt find many defenders online either.

 

[Orniletter]

I mean, Nintendo was the first publisher in the gaming industry to trout out a woman executive on their E3 press conference stages (Cammie Dunaway, for those who have forgotten) to present news. And that was before call-out culture for these sorts of things took hold in the press.

Exactly.

I 100% can and do fault them. They are at the root of the problem, and them making some small efforts at outreach to the sorts of demographics they had long deliberately excluded does not make up for their past behavior.

They're not solely responsible, as many other major industry companies picked up and ran with the same exclusionary tactics, but they absolutely have responsibility for this situation.

Nintendo's 72 annual shareholder's meeting

(the meeting where shareholders can ask questions and the company president, in this case Iwata, has to answer them)

Question5:
I have a question about the board members. Currently there are no females on the board. I do not remember all of the past board members, so it might just be the case now; however, I wonder whether there are some problems in educating and cultivating people at Nintendo.

Iwata's Answer:
In my understanding, your point is that because there are no female board members at Nintendo, whether there is something hindering the efforts of the female employees. Is that correct?

Well, first of all, Nintendo has many female employees, and among these people, many are actively working as administrators and managers. On the other hand, when we decide our board members, we choose the ones that can form the best possible management team to run Nintendo’s business for the fiscal year ahead. So it is just a coincidence that there are no female members on the current board; but this does not imply that we would not to select females for our board or that there is an atmosphere that female employees could never become board members.

Besides, Nintendo’s platforms have almost the same number of female users as male users, which is extremely rare in the gaming industry. In cases of other companies’ platforms, the user proportion between males and females is about 70:30, or something like 75%:25%. Although gaming was originally favored predominantly by males and it has long been said that games are for children and young male adults, the number of female users increased tremendously while the Nintendo DS and the Wii were expanding the gaming populations. However, if we fail to reflect females’ points of views sufficiently in all aspects in our business, including not only product development, creation and sales but also in the management that leads the company, I believe we will not be able to realize the products that will be well accepted by women in the market. Therefore, although we currently have no female board members, we would highly appreciate it if you could understand that there is nothing hindering female employees’ efforts.

You are objectively wrong about them.

Edit: Sorry for going off topic here, but the post had to be corrected.

 

[marrec]

Nintendo's decision to or to not put out a press release doesn't affect other companies HR practices because of their position in the industry.

I agree with many of your statements but this one is flat out wrong. As an industry leader, Nintendo's statements would absolutely influence other companies in the market.

 

[diaspora]

I agree with many of your statements but this one is flat out wrong. As an industry leader, Nintendo's statements would absolutely influence other companies in the market.

I don't have any reason to believe their HR and PR choices would have had any effect on others in the industry. Should they have done it? Absolutely, but I'm not going to pretend as if I have any reason to think it would do anything tangible. The ball is in Twitter's court for this.

 

[oswaldwen]

Nintendo's decision to or to not put out a press release doesn't affect other companies HR practices because of their position in the industry.

Honestly I doubt that. Companies dont exist in a vacuum.

 

[diaspora]

Honestly I doubt that. Companies dont exist in a vacuum.

Companies don't generally pick up HR and PR changes based on whether or not a press release is made.

 

[oswaldwen]

Companies don't generally pick up HR and PR changes based on whether or not a press release is made.

I think it would depend on the content of that press release.

 

[Lime]

Apparently someone just told me that the contact form is down, so people can't get in touch with them.

I also got the generic PR response by them, as expected.

 

[marrec]

Companies don't generally pick up HR and PR changes based on whether or not a press release is made.

We've seen it before. Company A releases statement on social issue, public pressure mounts for Company B to have a stance as well.

The company that I work for barely has a public face at all and we still do internal policy reviews based on information gleaned from our competitors.

 

[Bright]

Nintendo won't hire her back. They've made their decision. They'll look weak if they do.

I don't buy anything from WEAK companies.