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[wapplew]

But...What if PS5 is further away than we think. Nearer 2021/22 than 2019/20? Also, are you suggesting that when PS5 hits they drop support for PS4 completely? If not then a level of forward compatibility is implied - unless PS5 is a radical departure in hardware architecture then it'd be the usual cross-gen porting scenario.

Looking at PC, IOS and Android development where hardware range remains more diverse Its hard to see how this is going to be a serious problem for most devs to achieve.

Let me put it this way.
Let's say PS4 is GTX750ti, PS4.5 is GTX 970, PS5 maybe GTX1080.
Right now, we have dev making games base on 750ti. When PS4.5 hit, dev will still make games base on 750ti (force forward compatible) and add bell and whistle to GTX970.

By the time PS5 release, there will be 3 possible scenario

1. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. PS5 will be a start of new traditional generation. (semi traditional route)

2. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 but keep PS4.5 forward compatible with PS5 (supporting 2 iteration at any time)

3. Sony keep force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. All three hardware will share library. (the PC/iOS route)

If PS4.5 is real, I will only accept scenario 1. Because when PS5 launch, I want dev make game base on GTX1080, not games base on 750ti or 970 with bell and whistle.

Scenario 3 is my worst possible fear.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Ahh you're having a stroke.

Nah might Ben drinking ti

 

[RoadHazard]

If they release a $499 PS4k+PSVR bundle with no controller, camera or move controllers for existing PS4 owners this would be a win for Sony. I would do that.

Would mean your old PS4 would be harder to sell though. Do any trade-in places accept consoles without at least one controller? They can't really resell it like that.

 

[Matthew23]

So nostrils gamers are supposed to just sit by and watch their shit just turn into steam boxes where there's variety depending no! Fuck no! If I wanted that shit I would further have upgraded my goddamn pc for fuck sake! Get real

New hardware every 3 years instead of 5-7 doesn't take anything away from the benefits consoles have always had over PC gaming (ease of use, lower cost of entry).

 

[RoadHazard]

saying this with full confidence like there's a precedent for it

Sure. But do we really think Sony wants to erase all the goodwill they've built up with the PS4 by ceasing to support it before the PS5 is out? MAYBE there will be PS4K-exclusive PSVR-games, but that's as far as I think it will go, if anything.

 

[bitbydeath]

2. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 but keep PS4.5 forward compatible with PS5 (supporting 2 iteration at any time)

Best option.

 

[Muzicfreq]

New hardware every 3 years instead of 5-7 doesn't take anything away from the benefits consoles have always had over PC gaming (ease of use, lower cost of entry).

Monies overtime is increased alot and makes generations seem so short to the point of why go consule? Why?
Games taking so I ng to develop already let's increase their load and make more versions! Woo fail

 

[Matthew23]

Monies overtime is increased alot and makes generations seem so short to the point of why go consule? Why?
Games taking so I ng to develop already let's increase their load and make more versions! Woo fail

The generation will be longer now. No PS4K means PS5 sooner. Making a second, almost identical version of a game really should effect dev time all that much.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

I have zero problems with a better machine, but i hope the devs use the new horsepower to make the graphics at 1080 better!! More quality per pixel!! If the extra power will be just there to ´create´ fake 4k (this new machine will not be able to do native 4k for aaa games!!! Not even close!!) then i wouldnt need one.

 

[Muzicfreq]

The generation will be longer now. No PS4K means PS5 sooner. Making a second, almost identical version of a game really should effect dev time all that much.

6/year international why not, 3 years though ni

 

[EricTheCleric]

Nothing, but if we knew from the start that a more powerful PS4 will exist, then alot of people will hold.

So people would have held on to their PS3 for 2-3 years playing PS3 games and ignoring the PS4 and its library just because a slightly more powerful PS4 would be released later?

 

[ArtHands]

saying this with full confidence like there's a precedent for it

He'a not entirely wrong though. Going by traditional release pattern, PS4 wont be able to play PS5 titles. By with this half-upgrade, there's a chance PS4 can play PS5 titles with lower fidelity. If not, things is the same as before. the PS4 owners has nothing to do.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

So people would have held on to their PS3 for 2-3 years playing PS3 games and ignoring the PS4 and its library just because a slightly more powerful PS4 would be released later?

I would have just focused on PC gaming till the more powerful PS4 that is for damn sure.

 

[wapplew]

Best option.

I would prefer option one. Option 2 is not ideal for me, but I can compromise.
Option 3 is happening thou. It's a depend on the adoption rate of PS4.5 and PS5 going forward.

 

[Muzicfreq]

Fools April I want op now

 

[ArtHands]

Let me put it this way.
Let's say PS4 is GTX750ti, PS4.5 is GTX 970, PS5 maybe GTX1080.
Right now, we have dev making games base on 750ti. When PS4.5 hit, dev will still make games base on 750ti (force forward compatible) and add bell and whistle to GTX970.

By the time PS5 release, there will be 3 possible scenario

1. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. PS5 will be a start of new traditional generation. (semi traditional route)

2. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 but keep PS4.5 forward compatible with PS5 (supporting 2 iteration at any time)

3. Sony keep force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. All three hardware will share library. (the PC/iOS route)

If PS4.5 is real, I will only accept scenario 1. Because when PS5 launch, I want dev make game base on GTX1080, not games base on 750ti or 970 with bell and whistle.

Scenario 3 is my worst possible fear.

You have things entirely backward. The devs usually make games based on the most powerful hardware, then bring it down for weaker hardwares.

 

[GHG]

Let me put it this way.
Let's say PS4 is GTX750ti, PS4.5 is GTX 970, PS5 maybe GTX1080.
Right now, we have dev making games base on 750ti. When PS4.5 hit, dev will still make games base on 750ti (force forward compatible) and add bell and whistle to GTX970.

By the time PS5 release, there will be 3 possible scenario

1. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. PS5 will be a start of new traditional generation. (semi traditional route)

2. Sony cut off force forward compatible of PS4 but keep PS4.5 forward compatible with PS5 (supporting 2 iteration at any time)

3. Sony keep force forward compatible of PS4 and PS4.5. All three hardware will share library. (the PC/iOS route)

If PS4.5 is real, I will only accept scenario 1. Because when PS5 launch, I want dev make game base on GTX1080, not games base on 750ti or 970 with bell and whistle.

Scenario 3 is my worst possible fear.

You fear the scenario that will benefit everyone the most?

Well I never...

 

[warheat]

So people would have held on to their PS3 for 2-3 years playing PS3 games and ignoring the PS4 and its library just because a slightly more powerful PS4 would be released later?

Not everyone but some of us will including me, just like people hold out for Enhanced/GOTY/Complete Edition on game titles.

 

[Matthew23]

I would have just focused on PC gaming till the more powerful PS4 that is for damn sure.

It's easier to think this after the fact, I myself think the same thing. But when PS5 comes out with exclusives it's going to be hard to wait 3 years before jumping in, at least for early adopters. Hopefully by that time Sony will offer a clear roadmap for their future hardware releases. I get the sense that PS4K wasn't something they had planned at PS4 release.

 

[wapplew]

You fear the scenario that will benefit everyone the most?

Well I never...

Yes. Because I want first party make exclusive for the best hardware.
I want the best out of my console, it's the reason I own a console.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Nail. On. The. Head.

So many people so worried that their current consoles aren't going to be supported. They will be until PS5 hits...

If Sony went with a PS5 in 2018 rather than this iterative model then your existing console wouldn't be forward supported at all!

This allows them to extend the life of the PS4 to 2021 and have the full 8 year cycle before moving onto brand new hardware with games designed only for it.

This is what I have been thinking as I try to understand what Sony MIGHT be doing. The 25X efficiency increase by 2020 AMD touted is a roadmap of changes that Sony has to know and figure out when to jump in for a Game Console. At some point a refreshed more power efficient PS4 is coming and might be this PS4K. AND if you are correct and a PS5 is to take advantage of something powerful enough to do 4K gaming and be in the living room, it might be a 2021 model.

To be a PS5 and not a upgraded PS4, if they are staying with PC hardware, would have HOW games are created a major change from today. It might be as Carmak predicted and we move from shader graphics to Ray tracing based games which is more efficient at higher resolutions like 4K. Carmak said this takes about 10 TF.

AMD aims for 25-fold boost in chip energy efficiency by 2020

If they aren't using HBM for the PS4K because of cost and are using the GDDR5X memory then they still need to have Network standby and Media modes supported like the current PS4 does with a ARM TEE SoC that is also Southbridge. That would make the leaks touting the new GPU supporting a more powerful system + Media + AR a misunderstanding. ALL media including UHD, 4K upscaling and 90% of the HDMI 2 port (AR needs a HDMI 2 port) is done in Southbridge, is REQUIRED to be done in the southbridge media TEE by the movie industry and the BDA. Southbridge is also responsible for a Root of Trust boot for the System and supports APPs and the browser with APIs (the System part above).

We have a conflict in the two leak sources, one states the PS4 isn't much more powerful with most of the upgrade seen in system + media + AR which would be southbridge finally getting a firmware update and the second a GPU that is 2X as powerful yet smaller with a faster clock with games primarily getting upscaled to 4K with some new games at a higher resolution/framerate?

Which is true? If AMD can do this for 2017 then rumors AMD is supplying a APU for the iMAC must be true. BUY AMD stock. If not true and a misunderstanding, AMD is only a hold.

 

[Apt101]

If Sony included full mouse and keyboard support and kept up with competitive refreshes every three to four years, I could see myself being weaned off PC as my primary gaming platform. I could keep a cheap-ish laptop around for work and productivity and just worry about my console for games. I use PC now because it offers an experience far beyond what my PS4 does visually (and also MMO's and a handful of exclusives), but I like the exclusives and convenience of PlayStation, so I play on both. I'd rather pay $500 every three or four years for a new console, no muss no fuss, than have to worry about upgrading various components in my PC.

 

[Markoman]

My final thoughts:

1. console market userbase won't grow just because of this
2. console market profits may grow because a certain percentage of the userbase will buy two consoles in 5-7 years instead of one
3. this new model can't be sustained for three console manufacturers for a long time. My bet one of them will pull out in 5 years.
4. if you think a 3-year cycle is guaranted from now on, you're fooling yourself, because this is not in Sony's hand. The first to go with this will change the rules for the others-> competition will get more intense, the blinds have been raised.
5. Consumers will have a hard time assessing the market, because the consoles surely won't be released in the same time-frame, meaning potentially we'll get a new console (not from one company) every 1-2 years. This will lead to confusion amongst consumers and they will go even more with the trend/hype. I'm not saying this will destroy the console market, but I see Nintendo becoming the first casualty in this process. We've seen this in the current gen - word of mouth and hype alone are contributing a good portion to the crazy PS4's sales numbers.(no fanboyism,PS4 owner here)

ad 4.)

example:
NX release fall 2016
PS4K release spring 2017
Xbox 1,5 release fall 2017

specs: Xbox 1,5>PS4K>NX
sales: PS4K>>Xbox1,5 (but share in UK/US grows) >>>>NX

Nintendo releases NX.5 in spring 2018, because they can, because Apple can
specs: NX,5>Xbox1,5>PS4K
sales: PS4K>>Xbox1,5>>NX,5 (MS loosing some share ww to Nin)

Next is Sony's move and at one point one of them might change the order of the release schedule: Nintendo->Sony->MS to Sony->Nintendo->MS...with the end result being even shortercycles (2-2,5 year )for each company.

What I'm trying to say here, this will create dynamics which can't be controlled by either Sony, MS or Nintendo. The action-reaction rhythm will totally change and it's either PASS or RAISE at one point. People thinking that three console manufacturers can spam the market with new products in peaceful coexistence are delusional. This is not the mobile phone market! Or, to be more precisely, we don't have any empirical evidence yet, that the phone model will work for consoles. It's all speculation right now.

 

[Melchiah]

Console lives last 5-7 years. That's the way it's been since the beginning of consoles. Why fuck with that?

The funny thing is, that Microsoft killed the original Xbox early, yet people had no problem with buying a 360. Now Nintendo is doing the same with Wii U, and people aren't screaming for boycott against NX. Seems like double standard to me, considering that in this case the PS4 is still being supported.

 

[velociraptor]

fuck me this sounds amazing

2x GPU?

goddamn

 

[Bitch Pudding]

You fear the scenario that will benefit everyone the most?

Well I never...

Yup, if Sony (and MS btw) go all "Apple", option 3 is inevitable.

 

[Daante]

Hmm

- 2x GPU power
- maby more powerful CPU

*Looks at Uncharted 4 trailer*

*Drools*

 

[wapplew]

My final thoughts:

1. console market userbase won't grow just because of this
2. console market profits may grow because a certain percentage of the userbase will buy two consoles in 5-7 years instead of one
3. this new model can't be sustained for three console manufacturers for a long time. My bet one of them will pull out in 5 years.
4. if you think a 3-year cycle is guaranted from now on, you're fooling yourself, because this is not in Sony's hand. The first to go with this will change the rules for the others-> competition will get more intense, the blinds have been raised.
5. Consumers will have a hard time assessing the market, because the consoles surely won't be released in the same time-frame, meaning potentially we'll get a new console (not from one company) every 1-2 years. This will lead to confusion amongst consumers and they will go even more with the trend/hype. I'm not saying this will destroy the console market, but I see Nintendo becoming the first casualty in this process. We've seen this in the current gen - word of mouth and hype alone are contributing a good portion to the crazy PS4's sales numbers.(no fanboyism,PS4 owner here)

I share the same opinion, completely agree with you.
I might add on point number 2, it might look like good profit for console maker in the short term, but I think this will bite them in the ass in the long run.
Point number 3 is going to happen if half gen hardware become a success. They will make it shorter and shorter eventually turn into full on iOS/PC mode.

 

[Evo X]

So Uncharted 4 is totally getting a 60fps remaster on this new console, right?

 

[CyberPunked]

Oh shush technology isn't held back at all. Look at battle front
Looked amazing on consoles even.
Tech is progressing still add developers continue to develop p. You make it sound like they're too dumb to progress paid console

This is just blantantly false. The amount of games over just the last few years that have been reduced in scale and graphic fidelity because of the console platform is huge.

 

[Markoman]

The funny thing is, that Microsoft killed the original Xbox early, yet people had no problem with buying a 360. Now Nintendo is doing the same with Wii U, and people aren't screaming for boycott against NX. Seems like double standard to me, considering that in this case the PS4 is still being supported.

This is not exactly the same scenario. Both XboxOG and WiiU suffered from bad,bad sales and MS+Nin couldn't change anything about the situation but pulling the plug and releasing a new console. We are talking 22mio. Xbox users and 12mio. WiiU users vs. ~50 mio. PS4 users by spring 2017. And please keep in mind the technological leap from PS2 to Xbox360 was huge which is a whole different story than what we're getting from now on.
Nintendo pulling the plug on WiiU is not causing any outrage, because the thing is DEAD from the day it has seen first light!
Nobody but diehard Nintendo fans and some idiots like me have bought the thing. We have seen this coming long ago and I surely won't buy a dying console again. Still no outrage from me.

 

[navii]

sega was way ahead of its time

 

[warheat]

The funny thing is, that Microsoft killed the original Xbox early, yet people had no problem with buying a 360. Now Nintendo is doing the same with Wii U, and people aren't screaming for boycott against NX. Seems like double standard to me, considering that in this case the PS4 is still being supported.

Pretty sure some people are upset about the decision, but the userbase cannot be compared against PS4, to be honest I believe only a diehard Nintendo fans buy WiiU, that thing is dead not long after release. That's why you don't see as much outrage against the decision.

 

[MicSte79]

Take my money Sony - great news!

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

This is just blantantly false. The amount of games over just the last few years that have been reduced in scale and graphic fidelity because of the console platform is huge.

Only because they are announcing games far too early and have to do a vertical slice. That doesn't mean they've been scaled down because of the hardware it's because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. Just look at what Naughty Dog can do with Uncharted, it's mostly Ubisoft games that have had these "downgrades" so blame the developer not the system.

The funny thing is, that Microsoft killed the original Xbox early, yet people had no problem with buying a 360. Now Nintendo is doing the same with Wii U, and people aren't screaming for boycott against NX. Seems like double standard to me, considering that in this case the PS4 is still being supported.

PS4.5 isn't PS5.

Xbox had a 5 year run before 360 launched and it looks like Wii U will have 5 years before NX comes out. In both cases the successive consoles have been a generational leap in performance. (I'm only guessing here with NX)

PS4.5 has been in development probably straight after PS4 launched and is look set to come out only 3 years into the life cycle of the PS4 and it isn't even a generational leap, it is an iterative increase in performance. That's why people are annoyed.

 

[Melchiah]

This is not exactly the same scenario. Both XboxOG and WiiU suffered from bad,bad sales and MS+Nin couldn't change anything about the situation but pulling the plug and releasing a new console. We are talking 22mio. Xbox users and 12mio. WiiU users vs. ~50 mio. PS4 users by spring 2017. And please keep in mind the technological leap from PS2 to Xbox360 was huge which is a whole different story than what we're getting from now on.
Nintendo pulling the plug on WiiU is not causing any outrage, because the thing is DEAD from the day it has seen first light!
Nobody but diehard Nintendo fans and some idiots like me have bought the thing. We have seen this coming long ago and I surely won't buy a dying console again. Still no outrage from me.

Killing them off benefitted the companies, but not so much the consumers who bought them in good faith, that they would be supported for longer. Yet here people are screaming murder, eventhough their console continues to be supported, and their experience remains unchanged.

If the technological leap to 360 was so hard to resist, it shouldn't be such a big problem to continue using the PS4 as before, considering the PS4K offers only little more in comparison.

 

[GlamFM]

Probably LTTP with this, but I just noticed that The Know had the same info as the OP 6 days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1xmoz99tU

EDIT:

THIS IS IMPORTANT!

 

[Melchiah]

Pretty sure some people are upset about the decision, but the userbase cannot be compared against PS4, to be honest I believe only a diehard Nintendo fans buy WiiU, that thing is dead not long after release. That's why you don't see as much outrage against the decision.

If there are upset people, I haven't seen any of them, and people seem to be welcoming the replacing system. The difference here is, that the PS4 isn't being replaced now, and will be supported just like its predecessors were. Nothing's changed in that regard, the only change is that now some view their system as bereft of the performance crown.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

This is not exactly the same scenario. Both XboxOG and WiiU suffered from bad,bad sales and MS+Nin couldn't change anything about the situation but pulling the plug and releasing a new console. We are talking 22mio. Xbox users and 12mio. WiiU users vs. ~50 mio. PS4 users by spring 2017. And please keep in mind the technological leap from PS2 to Xbox360 was huge which is a whole different story than what we're getting from now on.
Nintendo pulling the plug on WiiU is not causing any outrage, because the thing is DEAD from the day it has seen first light!
Nobody but diehard Nintendo fans and some idiots like me have bought the thing. We have seen this coming long ago and I surely won't buy a dying console again. Still no outrage from me.

I'm sorry, but I don't regret buying the Wii U and frankly, I haven't met anyone with a Wii U who does. The games were well worth it!

As for the bolded part, what do you mean exactly? Every console dies, but I guess you mean OBVIOUSLY dying consoles? How could you even tell? If it turns out the regular PS4 suffers because of the PS4K (hope not!), would you have predicted the PS4 was a dying console?

 

[orochi91]

fuck me this sounds amazing

2x GPU?

goddamn

I know, right?

Coupled with a more powerful CPU, as mentioned in the OP, this upgrade now seems pretty enticing.

 

[El_Chino]

Probably LTTP with this, but I just noticed that The Know had the same info as the OP 6 days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f1xmoz99tU

I've seen this.

I remember people not buying it either, funny how that works out.

 

[MicSte79]

What is 'BISH verified?'

 

[GlamFM]

I've seen this.

I remember people not buying it either, funny how that works out.

I´m getting more and more excited!

The release date of the 4K lines up nicely with Destiny 2....

Can´t wait!

What is 'BISH verified?'

OP has been checked by NeoGAF moderater Bish (bishoptl). While that does not confirm that everything is true, it does confirm that OP is in a position to know this stuff.

 

[warheat]

I haven't seen any of them

smaller userbase

 

[El_Chino]

I´m getting more and more excited!

The release date of the 4K lines up nicely with Destiny 2....

Can´t wait!

I expect first party and select third party studios to take advantage of it.

 

[MicSte79]

OP has been checked by NeoGAF moderater Bish. While that does not confirm that everything is true it does confirm that OP is in a position to know this stuff.

Thanks.

 

[GlamFM]

I expect first party and select third party studios to take advantage of it.

Bungie fits right in there

 

[kyser73]

So what happens when your PS4K games progress to the point where they're not 60fps anymore and start making sacrifices as all consoles will? at what point will you decide to get a PC?

MichaelCaineNevah.gif

 

[Melchiah]

PS4.5 isn't PS5.

Xbox had a 5 year run before 360 launched and it looks like Wii U will have 5 years before NX comes out. In both cases the successive consoles have been a generational leap in performance. (I'm only guessing here with NX)

PS4.5 has been in development probably straight after PS4 launched and is look set to come out only 3 years into the life cycle of the PS4 and it isn't even a generational leap, it is an iterative increase in performance. That's why people are annoyed.

Xbox was released in March 14, 2002 in Europe, and the 360 was released in December 2, 2005. That's less than four years. Wii U came out less than 3½ years ago, and the rumors are pointing the NX to be released within four years of its predecessor.

The console development never ceases, there's no difference in that regard with generational or iterative releases. When one product is launched, the next is in the planning stages.

Since the leap from PS4 to PS4K is much smaller than a generational one, it should be also be easier to ignore for those who don't care about upgrading.


EDIT:

smaller userbase

I mean, I haven't seen upset people on the NX threads I've glanced through. I haven't browsed through all the pages, as I'm not that interested in the subject, but one would think if there was outrage it would show on the first pages.

 

[Green Yoshi]

Yeah, what the fuck, Nintendo?! Announcing a successor 2 years after launch of a new generation...

Every home console from Nintendo sold more units than the WiiU. Even I'm not interested although I am a fan of Nintendo and own a lot of their consoles.

But the Playstation 4 is a success story.