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[Filthy Casual]

This thread is still going strong and full of GAF-ness. "Call this generation a mistake". Really?

Lol what's wrong with that sentiment, it clearly was a mistake if they're already building more powerful boxes within 3 years. A mistake from a power point of view.

If you dig this iterative stuff then you won't see it that way but I want a console to last, and not be playing sub 30fps games within 4 years, well already tbh.

Maybe I'm being naive and should just forget consoles if they're not capable of doing that.

 

[EricTheCleric]

Never seen a polaris or Pascal thread on GAF lol ...I will give VIVE a try, and if its so much better I would build a PC just for that, and yes 14 nm means I could build a powerful much smaller PC latter half of 2016 is my understanding

no, I have just started thinking about maybe saving up for upgrading my PC since I will have some extra income the next six months and not gone any further yet. I have no idea whatsoever on how the hardware situation is on the PC scene right now. My current build is based on hardware from 2013-2014 so I am thinking maybe 2017 for a new upgrade that will be fairly economical and give most bang for the buck. For me the biggest problem is getting rid of my old computers/components.... I have three generations of PC builds in my apartment right now...

 

[m4st4]

Yeah right... 'call this generation a mistake'. We're two years in and this will soon be in our disc trays:

Are developers not allowed to squeeze every single drop of power out of this box right here, in front of my eyes? How much profit does Sony need after PS4 became a giant success already?

Again, I blame VR.

 

[Markoman]

Lol, console wars a over. This is the transition from a 1vs1 or tag-team match to royal rumble.

Until now:
PS vs. Xbox or both bullying Nintendo defense force, then a PC owner steps in the ring to put them back into place.

From now on:
PS vs. Xbox or both bullying Nintendo defense force, then a PS4K/Xbox1.5 appears and starts calling PS4/Xbox1.5 owners "peasants", then a PC owner steps in the ring to put all of them back into place, then another PC guy enters the ring saying to the other PC guy: "How dare you, you non-VR subhuman?"

The fun on gaming-boards will see a major upward trend, 100% guaranted.

 

[geordiemp]

no, I have just started thinking about maybe saving up for upgrading my PC since I will have some extra income the next six months and not gone any further yet. I have no idea whatsoever on how the hardware situation is on the PC scene right now. My current build is based on hardware from 2013-2014 so I am thinking maybe 2017 for a new upgrade that will be fairly economical and give most bang for the buck. For me the biggest problem is getting rid of my old computers/components.... I have three generations of PC builds in my apartment right now...

http://ecumenicalnews.com/article/n...etails-release-date-rumors-revealed/41555.htm

The new 12.5 Terraflops cards are coming out it seems on 14 nm above. Whatever you do you will be miles behind the PC race, paling into insignificance the Ps4K improvement over OG Ps4 whatever it is.

2106, the year everyone buys new hardware to keep up.

 

[omonimo]

Of course you don't because you are only looking at it from perspective of someone that doesn't want to upgrade and hates the idea of people having a better PS4 than you. Not everyone feels that way.

The real question it's: ps4 port will be optimized if ps4k will become the new lead platform? I thought ps4k was limited to output ps4 games with better graphic feature reading here it seems ps4k will become the new lead platform which don't like me at all. I don't like the idea which people with less money play broken version because Sony is hungry of money.

 

[Filthy Casual]

What in the flying fuck is happening to this thread?

2.5 years in, approx 40 million PS4s in the wild.

Possible mid gen refresh = scrap generation.

.....I just cant

I don't give a fuck about how many they've sold, I care about having the best possible experience for as long as possible with my console

Not playing games made with "significant sacrifices" or whatever 3 years in. And don't give me the "It's already that way because PC" because it's not the same for exclusives.

Edit - hey you said flying fuck too, statement retracted.

 

[GamerMax73]

Console generations are typically 10X the performance of the predecessor.

I know I'll be jumped on for lack of sources, but the best figures I could find when I looked a year or so back was closer to 5x/6x times every 5 years or so. PS1->PS2 being something of an anomaly were the leap in performance was particularly large. I'd say 2-2.5x performance boost every 3 years is about right given past console increases.

 

[Elandyll]

Lol what's wrong with that sentiment, it clearly was a mistake if they're already building more powerful boxes within 3 years. A mistake from a power point of view.

If you dig this iterative stuff then you won't see it that way but I want a console to last, and not be playing sub 30fps games within 4 years, well already tbh.

Maybe I'm being naive and should just forget consoles if they're not capable of doing that.

?

If they have now access to parts at a certain price level (and power consumption) that they didn't 3 years ago, you are saying they should have waited another 3 years to release the current gen?

Or are you implying they should stop making consoles alltogether?

 

[HarryKS]

Final Fantasy XV is clearly running on a more powerful machine in the trailers than it is in the actual PS4 version which does not have great image quality.

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

Was this posted?

https://youtu.be/Z8Hsu_WLfgk


NXGamer on what he thinks could be what's next for Sony and Microsoft. I always really dig his videos and this is another good one.

 

[GamerMax73]

So don't get your hopes up for a Zen APU with Polaris graphics cores. That would offer serious performance but is likely too far off for the new Playstation console.

While I agree both seem unlikely, either seem unlikely, what Sony and AMD agree behind closed doors bears little relation to what AMD release to the PC market and when. Unless we have someone here privy to AMD's internal development cycles then the truth is we don't really know what AMD can achieve in this regard if Sony approached them and asked for it. As I've said before the Playstation APU is no off the shelf part, it's custom made for Sony with all that entales.

 

[omonimo]

Final Fantasy XV is clearly running on a more powerful machine in the trailers than it is in the actual PS4 version which does not have great image quality.

To be fair I noticed tons of shimmering/aliasing artifact in the trailer in different edges. IQ not appeared that incredible to me.

 

[Filthy Casual]

?

If they have now access to parts at a certain price level (and power consumption) that they didn't 3 years ago, you are saying they should have waited another 3 years to release the current gen?

Or are you implying they should stop making consoles alltogether?

No, but as a said I wouldn't mind paying 1, 200 more than the PS4 cost at launch if it meant I was getting a more future proof console.

And in this current moment I don't know what is possible but instead of the 4K do you not think that they could make something even better and call it the V? Maybe it would cost 1, 200 more but again, I don't mind that if it's long lasting.

 

[ArtHands]

To be honest, i hope Sony ignore the current PS4 owners too and just go ahead with the ps4.5

Its certainly worth it to dump those these guys in exchange for the future of VR.

 

[Summer Haze]

 

[th4tguy]

If indeed the systems start releasing every 3 years similar to phone release patterns and its using the same OS that would allow me to continue playing my games I own without any issue, I'll handle it like I do my phone. Every other release, I'll sell my current on eBay and buy use that to help buy the new one.

 

[GamerMax73]

So, just out of curiosity, how many of you supporting this idea are going to buy every new Sony/MS/Nin console from now on and maybe a second console? What's your tolerance threshold for launch cycles : 3 years? 2 years? Even less?

Our hobby definitely got way more expensive, if you want to keep up with the latest and greatest toys, that is.

I've said this elsewhere. I think 3-4 year cycles is about the sweet spot. Personally I'm happy with a buy one, miss one mentality so long as forward compatibility is maintained between two concurrent overlapping models.

 

[warheat]

To be honest, i hope Sony ignore the current PS4 owners too and just go ahead with the ps4.5

Its certainly worth it to dump those these guys in exchange for the future of VR.

Are you sure it's not the other way around?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

To be honest, i hope Sony ignore the current PS4 owners too and just go ahead with the ps4.5

Its certainly worth it to dump those these guys in exchange for the future of VR.

This is crazy talk. Ignoring PS4 owners is the worst thing they could do. Giving full support to original PS4 for the rest of the generation is must. VR is a side project at the moment.

 

[Justice_Bolt]

What don't you understand? Resources will be spread thin and the lowest common denominator will be the one to suffer.

Exactly. Why people don't understand this?

 

[Markoman]

We have 28 to 14 NM which is massive for CPU and GPU performance, but also die size and heat.

We also have Gdrr5x for double bandwidth.

Its a perfect storm for an improved hardware step for console, laptop, and every PC guy that ever was.

When will be the next worthwhile step or will we be stuck at 14 for the next 10 years ?/?



Never seen a polaris or Pascal thread on GAF lol ...I will give VIVE a try, and if its so much better I would build a PC just for that, and yes 14 nm means I could build a powerful much smaller PC latter half of 2016 is my understanding

You have a point there, but what I was getting at:
When the first VR talk started, everyone who was excited for it was dreaming about AAA games in VR. The games that will be released on PSVR atm are nothing like that. They will be mostly showcases of what's going to come in the future.
What I'm trying to say....how much power do we need to run the next Elder Scrolls game in VR without major visual/performance sacrifices? 14nm alone is not going to do that.
PSVR is going to sell more, but Rift and Vive will be closer to the original idea and a PS4K won't change that. PS5? Maybe, but who knows where tech is going in the next 5 years and how demanding the software will be.

 

[GamerMax73]

Here's how I think this should be handled in an ideal way:

1. Sony informes the gaming community a week ahead about live stream presentation to happen, prior to Uncharted 4 release.
2. Andrew House says a few words on consoles evolving and announces immediate PS4 price drop to $299 to ease whatever tension
3. Get Mark Cerny on stage to explain benefits of console iteration model vs start-from-zero generations.
4. Announce PS4K
5. Make it crystal clear that PS4 and PS4K has a shared library. Devs cannot drop PS4 support until the next console model releases past PS4K w/3 year intervals.
6. Devs strongly encouraged to optimize for PS4 first
7. Detail new platform requirements to devs: Locked 60fps+ without fault for PSVR or else no certification (already in effect), 30fps maintained 99% of time minimum going forward for all standard PS4 games or else no certification.
8. Show PS4K games in action
   [*]"more details at E3 with pre-orders to follow"

They need to be crystal clear about the intentions for the platform when PS5 hits. We don't need expected release dates or potential specs, but we do need to know now what a PS5 release is going to mean for PS4K when it happens.

 

[geordiemp]

So, just out of curiosity, how many of you supporting this idea are going to buy every new Sony/MS/Nin console from now on and maybe a second console? What's your tolerance threshold for launch cycles : 3 years? 2 years? Even less?

Our hobby definitely got way more expensive, if you want to keep up with the latest and greatest toys, that is.

The sweetspot is when its worthwhile. If we get a new Ps4 built on 14 nm using a GDDR5x for bandwidth gains and the CPU is given some priority...

Then I cant see that in 3 years, if we are still on 14 nm, then how would Sony get the big performance step ? Yes they can do bandwidth with HBM, but if they are stuck on 14 nm then there is no room other than make APU bigger.

All the big 12 TF GPU's coming out this year will be massive power hogs and huge dies costing the usual Nvidia taxes - these parts will not go into a console anytime soon.

We may be stuck with Ps4.5 for 10 years...that would be ironic...

For me I will get a Ps4.5 day 1 if it has all of the tech upgrades, as I can see it lasting. Ps4 / Xb1 was always going to be outdated when 14 nm came out.

 

[boyshine]

Color me confused, UHD is a lower resolution than 4K, so why is 4K a no buy? Also expect it to be UHD sense that's what most "4K" TVs are.

That said as a tech enthusiast color me intrigued. If it's a significant upgrade I'll buy.

4K Blu-ray players are just Blu-ray players that upscale normal Blu-ray discs. UHD Blu-ray is a separate disc format (black covers) with 3840x2160 resolution, 60fps, HDR, atmos/dtsx.

 

[Interficium]

I don't give a fuck about how many they've sold, I care about having the best possible experience for as long as possible with my console

Build a PC. To expect this from 400 dollar mass market boxes is unrealistic, to say the least.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Build a PC. To expect this from 400 dollar mass market boxes is unrealistic, to say the least.

"I care about having the best possible experience for as long as possible with my console "

I think the bolded part says it all.



This E3 will be something.

 

[2thepoint]

With the sheer madness happening at this stage, Sony better announce this relatively quick to avoid misinformation and general shit being spread around.

 

[GamerMax73]

It might not even be a new iterative model, ps4k is happening because we have 28 to 14 nm.

That's bad for PS4K though, unless PS5 is being pushed back further into the 2020's, and then it's bad for PS4 like others have been complaining. Why by a PS4K if it's going to be replaced so soon with PS5? If it's not then how long will PS4 be supported going forward until the message become upgrade to PS4K to play new games? In my mind an iterative model is the only way to square the circle if this rumour bears fruit and PS4K is real.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

With the sheer madness happening at this stage, Sony better announce this relatively quick to avoid misinformation and general shit being spread around.

Yeah, there's no need. If they announce something they'll do it at E3.

 

[Hexa]

No, but as a said I wouldn't mind paying 1, 200 more than the PS4 cost at launch if it meant I was getting a more future proof console.

And in this current moment I don't know what is possible but instead of the 4K do you not think that they could make something even better and call it the V? Maybe it would cost 1, 200 more but again, I don't mind that if it's long lasting.

You are a limited niche that would probably be better on PC. The power of the PS4 was as good as it could be for the price at the time. As the market has repeatedly shown, an increased price system simply would not have sold that well. Whether this fails or does not is still to be determined (though I suspect it won't), but a $600 console in 2013 as powerful as this would have definitely failed.

 

[geordiemp]

That's bad for PS4K though, unless PS5 is being pushed back further into the 2020's, and then it's bad for PS4 like others have been complaining. Why by a PS4K if it's going to be replaced so soon with PS5? If it's not then how long will PS4 be supported going forward until the message become upgrade to PS4K to play new games? In my mind an iterative model is the only way to square the circle if this rumour bears fruit and PS4K is real.

So we have 28 nm to 14 nm, big performance gain, roll out ps4.5 to take advantage.

I just cant see whats next, ps5 when they can do 7 nm ? LOL, think if we are stuck with 14 nm for 10 years we will be stuck with ps4.5 for the same time as how would you do a step performance ?

There might not be a ps5 if its no better potentially than ps4.5. Why bother ?

 

[ArtHands]

This is crazy talk. Ignoring PS4 owners is the worst thing they could do. Giving full support to original PS4 for the rest of the generation is must. VR is a side project at the moment.

These people will end up buying a PS5 anyway. No reason for Sony to cater for them and watch Rift/Vive widen the VR gap.

 

[2thepoint]

Yeah, there's no need. If they announce something they'll do it at E3.

Considering the way leaks are happening on a daily basis and they are already briefing retail, along with the sentiment by some that the sky is falling in, I would announce PS4K asap.

I don't think their E3 presser is the place for this announcement. It needs its own event.

 

[Y2Kev]

Exactly. Why people don't understand this?

I don't really get this though. The architectures are all basically similar and the PS4/Xbox One already were the lowest common denominator. They suffer only to the extent developers designing on PC just didn't meet their budgets for art/effects/etc.

Games that were being designed on PC just have their sliders adjusted, basically. Will having a new tier really change things all that much?

This just seems like a problem developers have been dealing with for a very long time.

I think more personally (and I can say this would motivate me to upgrade) is that nagging feeling you no longer own the "best" product than it is concern about optimization.

 

[Filthy Casual]

You are a limited niche that would probably be better on PC. The power of the PS4 was as good as it could be for the price at the time. As the market as repeatedly shown, an increased price system simply would not have sold that well. Whether this fails or does not is still to be determined (though I suspect it won't), but a $600 console in 2013 as powerful as this would have definitely failed.

I suppose this is what it comes down to, it will be interesting to see how the casual market reacts to this then, and what Sonys expectations are.

 

[Filthy Casual]

"I care about having the best possible experience for as long as possible with my console "

I think the bolded part says it all.



This E3 will be something.

I did say for as long as possible but I also said that a 5 year gen would be ideal, is that unreasonable?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Considering the way leaks are happening on a daily basis and they are already briefing retail, along with the sentiment by some that the sky is falling in, I would announce PS4K asap.

I wouldn't. They have Uncharted 4 coming and they want to maximize PS4 sales before announcing some new kind of hardware. Then they'll finally announce it along with a better version of Uncharted 4.

I don't think their E3 presser is the place for this announcement. It needs its own event.

They will focus on VR this E3 and announcing a new console iteration alongside it would be better.

But having its own event could be possible.

I did say for as long as possible but I also said that a 5 year gen would be ideal, is that unreasonable?

A 5 year gen would be the sweet spot for me.

 

[wapplew]

So we have 28 nm to 14 nm, big performance gain, roll out ps4.5 to take advantage.

I just cant see whats next, ps5 when they can do 7 nm ? LOL, think if we are stuck with 14 nm for 10 years we will be stuck with ps4.5 for the same time as how would you do a step performance ?

There might not be a ps5 if its no better potentially than ps4.5. Why bother ?

Or wait another 2 years, when 14nm become cheaper, roll out PS5 with bigger performance gain per dollar, avoid all the backlash?

 

[Elandyll]

To be honest, i hope Sony ignore the current PS4 owners too and just go ahead with the ps4.5

Its certainly worth it to dump those these guys in exchange for the future of VR.

Or..
If you're not happy with the state of PS4VR, you can wait till PS5 or get a PC?

Just a thought.

The "lowest common denominator" from a dev perspective is the XB1, and I hate to break it to you all "games will be optimized for PS4K/ exclusives incoming", but I don't see how devs anywhere will decide it's a good idea to drop a 60+m userbase in the mud.

It' not like n PC where you can't really target a specific profile... Here you'll have two (three counting XB1, 4 counting an hypothetical XB1.5)

 

[Markoman]

No, but as a said I wouldn't mind paying 1, 200 more than the PS4 cost at launch if it meant I was getting a more future proof console.

And in this current moment I don't know what is possible but instead of the 4K do you not think that they could make something even better and call it the V? Maybe it would cost 1, 200 more but again, I don't mind that if it's long lasting.

Well, and that's the part where console will be just like PCs. There is no such thing like "future proof" in this scenario anymore. Just like a GTX970 isn't future proof or even a 980Ti if you plan for VR.

Sony won't and can't promise to you that PS4K will be top of the line for 3-4 years (see PS4 owners now). If MS and Nintendo do the same thing, competition is going through the roof and we'll maybe end up with shorter cycles.

 

[2thepoint]

I agree the best time to announce this would be in early May following the release of Uncharted 4.

Announcing this month could detract from the Uncharted 4 bundle sales.

Let Uncharted have its well deserved time to shine and then announce at a seperate event with more at E3.

 

[katsubento]

I think more personally (and I can say this would motivate me to upgrade) is that nagging feeling you no longer own the "best" product than it is concern about optimization.

I think this is what many people who don't want this probably think deep down.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I agree the best time to announce this would be in early May following the release of Uncharted 4.

Announcing this month could detract from the Uncharted 4 bundle sales.

Let Uncharted have its well deserved time to shine and then announce at a seperate event with more at E3.

Precisely.


I still hope this is false though

 

[geordiemp]

Or wait another 2 years, when 14nm become cheaper, roll out PS5 with bigger performance gain per dollar, avoid all the backlash?

What you just wrote is a ps4k slim edition, when 14 nm becomes cheaper.

If they stay at 14 nm, to get a generation leap to ps5 they would have to make stuff bigger and hog power..and make heat.

 

[Corto]

Here's how I think this should be handled in an ideal way:

1. Sony informes the gaming community a week ahead about live stream presentation to happen, prior to Uncharted 4 release.
2. Andrew House says a few words on consoles evolving and announces immediate PS4 price drop to $299 to ease whatever tension
3. Get Mark Cerny on stage to explain benefits of console iteration model vs start-from-zero generations.
4. Announce PS4K
5. Make it crystal clear that PS4 and PS4K has a shared library. Devs cannot drop PS4 support until the next console model releases past PS4K w/3 year intervals.
6. Devs strongly encouraged to optimize for PS4 first
7. Detail new platform requirements to devs: Locked 60fps+ without fault for PSVR or else no certification (already in effect), 30fps maintained 99% of time minimum going forward for all standard PS4 games or else no certification.
8. Show PS4K games in action
   [*]"more details at E3 with pre-orders to follow"

Sold!

 

[ArtHands]

Or..
If you're not happy with the state of PS4VR, you can wait till PS5 or get a PC?

Just abthought.

The "lowest common denominator" from a dev perspective is the XB1, and I hate to break it to you all "games willbe optimized for PS4K/ exclusive", but I dont see how devs anywhere will decide it'sa good idea to drop a 60+m userbase in the mud.

It' not like n PC where you can't really target a specific profile... Here you'll have two (three counting XB1, 4 counting an hypothetic XB1.5)

I already have oculus rift preordered, but i want Sony to step up too.

There's no need to care about those sour feelings of these gamers, since they will be back anyway. What else are they going to turn to? Xbox? Pc? I doubt so

 

[kabel]

So we have 28 nm to 14 nm, big performance gain, roll out ps4.5 to take advantage.

I just cant see whats next, ps5 when they can do 7 nm ? LOL, think if we are stuck with 14 nm for 10 years we will be stuck with ps4.5 for the same time as how would you do a step performance ?

There might not be a ps5 if its no better potentially than ps4.5. Why bother ?

No

10nm will come like 2 or 3 years after 14nm. So 2019 maybe.

The problem with 14nm was that they had come up withe FinFET transistors(3D transistors) because planar transistors couldn't operate efficiently at such small structure sizes.

They had even to cancel 20nm because they wanted to do that with planar transistors.
That's why we had this jump from 28 to 14. Intel was way ahead with their 22nm Trigate(basically FinFET).TSMC, GloFo etc. will only have now in 2015/2016 FinFET, while Intel had their Trigate since 2012.

 

[wapplew]

What you just wrote is a ps4k slim edition, when 14 nm becomes cheaper.

If they stay at 14 nm, to get a generation leap to ps5 they would have to make stuff bigger and hog power..and make heat.

I mean they could just wait another 2-3 years, release a 8-10TF machine under $400, call it PS5.
No need to risk potential backlash, they are not in the position desperate need a change like MS or Nintendo.

 

[Da_Bears]

Waited a while to let the "announcement" set in.

Was a console gamer who moved to PC and then back to console.

First thought was if I have to upgrade, I may as well move back to PC.

Second thought was why be an idiot. I tend to purchase another console later in the run so we can have more people gaming in the house at one time. Had 2 PS3's. Got a PS4 and one PS3 moved out of the house to a friends house. Was going to get a second PS4 and retire the PS3. Them doing this kind of fits into the way I buy except, instead of getting the price break console, I spend the same or a little more and get the upgraded console.

PS4 will last awhile still and when PS5 comes out, the PS4 will go to another home and we will have a PS4K and PS5 in the house.

Biggest difference for ,me between this and PC is I will not have to IT the PC for others using it. Peeps can game on the PS4 and it will save me time.

Ready for it. Preordered the PSVR and will preorder the updated PS4 as long as they do not get to ridiculous on the price.