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[legacyzero]

How would you measure that?

The previous recession, perhaps?

 

[Kin5290]

For that weird bill, there seems to be a newer version: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/tbtfleg?inline=file

Also, if people want answers, why not consult the campaign page, for good or ill? https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/

Also, might I make the point I made at some point earlier that Hillary's chances aren't improved by alienating all the Bernie voters. But I guess it feels good to stick it to the People's Front of Judea?

God I hate this bullshit double standard. Because Bernie and his supporters can make all of the disingenuous character attacks they want, but when a Clinton supporter points out that Bernie might be a little facts-challenged with his policy platform, suddenly that's being mean and alienating?

 

[B-Dubs]

The previous recession, perhaps?

The issue with the recession wasn't the size of the banks themselves, but how over-leveraged they were. Having 30 banks wouldn't have changed anything if they were all still over-leveraged to the degree they were.

 

[RustyNails]

Cnn is now carrying this.

Sanders feeling media heat after new interview

Several times during the interview, Sanders expressed uncertainty over facts, said he couldn't give a proper answer to a question because he didn't have all the relevant information, or simply stated, "I don't know."
In one exchange, Sanders acknowledged that he wasn't sure exactly how he intended to break up the big banks, a proposal that has been a centerpiece of his Wall Street reform agenda.
For some political observers, the senator's difficulty in providing direct answers to some questions reinforced their belief that he lacks a concrete plan to implement his domestic agenda and is ill-prepared to handle the global challenges he would face as president.

"If Hillary [Clinton] gave answers like this to [an editorial] board, she would be crucified," tweeted Mark Halperin, the Bloomberg television host and co-author of "Game Change."

Sanders' remarks drew an onslaught of criticism from the press: "Bernie Sanders Admits He Isn't Sure How to Break Up Big Banks," Vanity Fair's headline read. "How Much Does Bernie Sanders Know About Policy?" asked The Atlantic. "This New York Daily News interview was pretty close to a disaster for Bernie Sanders," The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza wrote.

This is turning into a bigger thing than I thought.

 

[Mael]

This thread is funny Bernie supporters actually had more thoughts in putting a defense to their candidate's position than the candidate ever provided.
Man, imagine if Trump supporters were like that we might actually be discussing how a big wall south of the border paid by Mexico is really feasible.

 

[royalan]

For that weird bill, there seems to be a newer version: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/tbtfleg?inline=file

Also, if people want answers, why not consult the campaign page, for good or ill? https://berniesanders.com/issues/reforming-wall-street/

Also, might I make the point I made at some point earlier that Hillary's chances aren't improved by alienating all the Bernie voters. But I guess it feels good to stick it to the People's Front of Judea?

Pointing out that Bernie's plans are ill-thought and that this doesn't bode well for somebody running for the highest office in the land is not "alienating his voters," unless his voters are the sort that can't hear a single critical word about their candidate. I'd like to think that's not the case.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I was confused when someone said that the bill was only two pages. He's added another two pages of detail over the intervening two years.

Also, of the nine bullet points of key actions, two are the same thing twice, one isn't actually an action. And most don't really make sense anyway.

 

[metalslimer]

There is a large difference when listening to someone like Elizabeth Warren talk about this stuff and Sanders. She's so much better at articulating what she is talking about and not pivoting back to some talking poi t

 

[Mael]

Holy shit!
I don't know who said that Sanders' bill was something like 5 page in police size 30 with double interline. But it's actually just that!
I haven't witnessed this level of incompetence from an elected official since 2012 when a government had to redo a budget because the provisions inside were actually against the constitutional framework they had to work with!
I'm legit shook!

 

[Kin5290]

There is a large difference when listening to someone like Elizabeth Warren talk about this stuff and Sanders. She's so much better at articulating what she is talking about and not pivoting back to some talking poi t

It's a damn shame that she's way too smart to run for President.

 

[jakonovski]

God I hate this bullshit double standard. Because Bernie and his supporters can make all of the disingenuous character attacks they want, but when a Clinton supporter points out that Bernie might be a little facts-challenged with his policy platform, suddenly that's being mean and alienating?

It's election strategy 101. This is Hillary's election to lose. I mean if you don't care then fair game but otherwise.

 

[norm9]

Cnn is now carrying this.

Sanders feeling media heat after new interview

This is turning into a bigger thing than I thought.

That's just evil media.

 

[Barzul]

You know the funny thing is for a significant period in this election cycle, I considered myself a Sanders supporter but increasingly everything I've read drove me towards the realization that Hillary would be the better president and I'm firmly behind her now. Bernie has been treated with kids gloves all this time, expect Hillary to go into him on this at the debate and question him on specifics.

 

[harSon]

Cnn is now carrying this.

Sanders feeling media heat after new interview

This is turning into a bigger thing than I thought.

This probably wouldn't be news if the media, and moderators at debates, actually challenged him to a point where he couldn't simply pivot back to his stump speech. Like they do Hillary for example.

 

[Damaniel]

Cnn is now carrying this.

Sanders feeling media heat after new interview

This is turning into a bigger thing than I thought.

That's just the Clinton News Network writing another anti-Bernie hit piece in their attempt to prop up the oligarchy.

Spoiler

/s

I'm not sure how this will all pan out for Bernie, but the increasing amounts of scrutiny certainly aren't going to help him any. The next debate should be interesting - I hope he actually prepares for the questions this time.

 

[The Shadow]

1. not the only issue he stumps for
2. no one should trust anyone who claims to have all the answers?

It's ok to say "this is where we need to go" while also saying "it's going to take more than me to get us there"

Crazy, isn't it?

He's probably the most honest politician to take the stage and people piss on him for it. But let's give Trump a free pass who can't give a clear answer on any of his planned policies.

 

[Kyzer]

kek



I think that if Sanders had a serious plan, that would make him a better candidate. He doesn't need to say "this is why my plan is bad," he just needs to have one that's bigger than "let's break up the banks."



No, he was not asked to plan the future of the banks. He was asked HOW he'll accomplish the task of breaking them up. He was questioned as to the legality of it. He was unable to answer either one, and one would hope that if one proposes a policy, one has an actual plan to accompany it.



Drek's points about the policies are backed up by similar types of laws that have already passed, ones where we can see the effects now. The point about health care, and expected state matched funding for federal programs, is especially important. I think Drek did a good job of pointing out his reasoning, so why do you personally think that the Sanders college plan, as it is, is going to somehow overcome the barrier of state funding?

Fuck. I don't know. Damn.. am I the progressive equivalent of a Trump supporter ? Because I really have no idea...and I just want this guy who wants the same things I want to go beat DC with a stick until something cool happens.

I'm definitely being more honest than any political supporter has ever been.

Feels bad man. I never really stumped for Bernie before this thread but had him in my heart. I've yet to be concretely dismayed, but my belief in my own ability to really research what I'm talking about has diminished.

I think I'm more invested in the Republican race than our own sides for some reason too


Who am I

What am I fighting for

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

1. not the only issue he stumps for
2. no one should trust anyone who claims to have all the answers?

It's ok to say "this is where we need to go" while also saying "it's going to take more than me to get us there"

Yeah, terrible 1st post.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Trump is an imbecile. Who's giving Trump a free pass on being an imbecile?

 

[Melkezadek]

Crazy, isn't it?

He's probably the most honest politician to take the stage and people piss on him for it. But let's give Trump a free pass who can't give a clear answer on any of his planned policies.

This is exactly what I hear Trump supporters saying.

"He's just honest and people don't like him for it."

Maybe it's just being critical of a candidate who's running to be President of the United States. We would do it for anyone else, why should we be different on Bernie? If he lacks substance when pressed, we must be critical of him so he can be better. That's if you want him to win. I did, and that's why I voted for him in the primaries.

Coddling him won't do any good.

 

[The Shadow]

Trump is an imbecile. Who's giving Trump a free pass on being an imbecile?

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Trump is an imbecile. Who's giving Trump a free pass on being an imbecile?

The thing is, as liberals, we expect conservative plans to be pie in the sky bullshit kneeling down to the magic of low taxes and the free market, because that's what it's been since 1979 or so.

OTOH, as liberals, who argued for months over the efficacy of a mandate in a health care plan in 2008, we expect large scale plans to have some foundation to them, because unfortunately, thanks to yes, an anti-social welfare net bias in the media, our arguments have to be 3x better and 4x research than any right-wing underpants gnome "cut taxes and we make all the money" plans.

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

Sure, but like I've said, Republican primary voters have been doing that since 1979 or so. But, the same people who went after Bernie's plans also went over Cruz, Rubio, and Trump's plans.

 

[Melkezadek]

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

That isn't a very good standard. Not something that should be emulated on the Left.

 

[Xe4]

Crazy, isn't it?

He's probably the most honest politician to take the stage and people piss on him for it. But let's give Trump a free pass who can't give a clear answer on any of his planned policies.

Being honest doesn't give you a free pass, or even an easier time. Even the best politicans have things that they do wrong, and stuff like this is the name of the game in politics.

If Sanders wants to be a viable candidate for president he and his supporters have to accept that he's gonna take a log of flack along the way. His positions are going to be torn apart, as is his personal life. He's gonna say some hung stupid and people will hound him with that for weeks, months, even years depending on the comment made. That's just what happens when you're running for literally the most important job in the entire world.

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

Having people vote for you isn't a free pass. A free pass is not being questioned by the media or the populace. And I guarantee you Trump is being ridiculed by both.

 

[Mael]

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

As others have said, who gives a shit about the Republican side of things?
they're the idiots who fall for trickledown economics and other magical thinking policies, dems are supposed to be better than that.

 

[Kin5290]

It's election strategy 101. This is Hillary's election to lose. I mean if you don't care then fair game but otherwise.

So why isn't Bernie doing his part. He cares about furthering the left/progressive agenda in the US, right? So why is he doing so much to turn his base against the probable Presidential candidate who is in the best position to continue pushing the country towards the left?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Crazy, isn't it?

He's probably the most honest politician to take the stage and people piss on him for it. But let's give Trump a free pass who can't give a clear answer on any of his planned policies.

So it's come to this.

 

[Bronx-Man]

A substantial portion of independent and republican voters. He's winning primaries and on track to take the republican presidential nomination.

I'd call that a free pass.

That's republican voters giving him a pass. We're talking about Democrats here.

 

[legacyzero]

Crazy, isn't it?

He's probably the most honest politician to take the stage and people piss on him for it. But let's give Trump a free pass who can't give a clear answer on any of his planned policies.

Yep. Bernie gets a little heat for this, which I'm sure he can explain, while Hillary gets a pass for her flip flops, dishonesty, and conflicts of interests.

Freakin BAFFLING.

AND this isnt his ONLY campaign topic. Jesus. Corruption in GENERAL is his main one.

 

[Arkeband]

So why isn't Bernie doing his part. He cares about furthering the left/progressive agenda in the US, right? So why is he doing so much to turn his base against the probable Presidential candidate who is in the best position to continue pushing the country towards the left?

If Hillary can't convince voters to vote for her on her own merits, that's not a strong candidate.

 

[Mael]

Yep. Bernie gets a little heat for this, which I'm sure he can explain, while Hillary gets a pass for her flip flops, dishonesty, and conflicts of interests.

Freakin BAFFLING.

AND tgis isnt his ONLY campaign topic. Jesus. Corruption in GENERAL is his main one.

He hasn't proved to be more articulate about corruption than breaking banks really.

 

[hawk2025]

A whataboutism using Trump.


Fucking hell.

 

[The Shadow]

That isn't a very good standard. Not something that should be emulated on the Left.

As others have said, who gives a shit about the Republican side of things?
they're the idiots who fall for trickledown economics and other magical thinking policies, dems are supposed to be better than that.

Left. Right. Dem. Republican. Doesn't matter. The people who could really challenge Trump on his BS (media, old guard republicans) are simply content to play pedestrian.

Being honest doesn't give you a free pass, or even an easier time. Even the best politicans have things that they do wrong, and stuff like this is the name of the game in politics.

If Sanders wants to be a viable candidate for president he and his supporters have to accept that he's gonna take a log of flack along the way. His positions are going to be torn apart, as is his personal life. He's gonna say some hung stupid and people will hound him with that for weeks, months, even years depending on the comment made. That's just what happens when you're running for literally the most important job in the entire world.

Look, I actually agree that being honest isn't some golden ticket to non-scrutiny. The fact of the matter is, the amount of critical attention lobbed at someone who is being honest, versus the lack of critical attention lobbed at someone who never really gives a straight answer is staggering.

It just bugs me. I see it in politics, and I see it in healthcare and management education (my job) where it's more important to sound confident and commanding, than to have the right answers.

 

[legacyzero]

He hasn't proved to be more articulate about corruption than breaking banks really.

Citizens United. Trade. Banks. Voter fraud and suppression.

The list goes and goes.

 

[nitekrawlwer]

If Hillary can't convince voters to vote for her on her own merits, that's not a strong candidate.

That criticism applies even more so to the person with less votes...

 

[thehypocrite]

I expected better from the OP, but the thread title is pure trash.

 

[Verendus]

The simple truth, friends.

All of these candidates are shit. Hilary is shit. Bernie is shit. Trump is worse than shit. They're all shit. They probably eat it too for all we know. That's just American, and general world, leadership for you. Maybe in a few decades you'll get the leader you need, and not just the ones you deserve. Maybe we'll see someone admirable before I die, but reality makes that incredibly unlikely.

Instead, let's pray to the Benjamins. Buy some ice cream. Maybe a cookie or two. Have some warm milk. Down a coffee or three. It's going to be alright.

 

[TyrantII]

There is a large difference when listening to someone like Elizabeth Warren talk about this stuff and Sanders. She's so much better at articulating what she is talking about and not pivoting back to some talking poi t

Warren was a scholar and lawyer before getting into politics. Love him or hate him, Bernie is a life time, mostly local/regional politician.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yep. Bernie gets a little heat for this, which I'm sure he can explain, while Hillary gets a pass for her flip flops, dishonesty, and conflicts of interests.

Freakin BAFFLING.

AND this isnt his ONLY campaign topic. Jesus. Corruption in GENERAL is his main one.

On what planet does Hillary get a free pass on any of that stuff?

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

So why isn't Bernie doing his part. He cares about furthering the left/progressive agenda in the US, right? So why is he doing so much to turn his base against the probable Presidential candidate who is in the best position to continue pushing the country towards the left?

Bernie Sanders has a reputation for being all about Bernie. That's just who he is. He's right about a lot of things, but he's not the best at bringing people together or articulating specifics. He has the general idea, basically.

 

[Big Baybee]

Yep. Bernie gets a little heat for this, which I'm sure he can explain, while Hillary gets a pass for her flip flops, dishonesty, and conflicts of interests.

Freakin BAFFLING.

AND this isnt his ONLY campaign topic. Jesus. Corruption in GENERAL is his main one.

Hillary gets a pass? In what reality is Hillary Clinton not being constantly shit on by both the left and the right?

 

[metalslimer]

Hilary has been grilled by the right, the media, and now the left for 30 years. In what world has she gotten a free pass? Love her, hate her, or be indifferent but you cannot claim she has coasted through her career

 

[Shmuppers]

Trump is an imbecile. Who's giving Trump a free pass on being an imbecile?

Someone has to represent us.

 

[Mael]

Left. Right. Dem. Republican. Doesn't matter. The people who could really challenge Trump on his BS (media, old guard republicans) are simply content to play pedestrian.

Your point? The media is equally content to be pedestrian with Sanders and Trump.

Citizens United. Trade. Banks. Voter fraud and suppression.

The list goes and goes.

You made my point, he doesn't have a plan to make CU go away.
His plan for international trade are probably his more in depth so I won't crucify him for that.
Voter fraud and suppression is super funny because his campaign blame Clinton when it's really the SCOTUS and the GOP you have to blame for.

 

[Melkezadek]

Left. Right. Dem. Republican. Doesn't matter. The people who could really challenge Trump on his BS (media, old guard republicans) are simply content to play pedestrian.



Look, I actually agree that being honest isn't some golden ticket to non-scrutiny. The fact of the matter is, the amount of critical attention lobbed at someone who is being honest, versus the lack of critical attention lobbed at someone who never really gives a straight answer is staggering.

It just bugs me. I see it in politics, and I see it in healthcare and management education (my job) where it's more important to sound confident and commanding, than to have the right answers.

I'm trying to understand the point of your original complaint about Trump getting a free pass. Are you saying that we should also give Sanders a free pass? Should we give Clinton?

He isn't getting a free pass with his voters. They seem to not care about the practicality of his proposals and just care about what he's saying. They either agree with him or are apathetic to them.

I love the things Bernie is saying, but I'm now questioning his road to the goals. When pressed on them, he deflects. Trump does this and his voters don't seem to care.

Bernie, to me, seems to be doing this. And we should care. Not go "Trump/Hilary too!".

 

[legacyzero]

On what planet does Hillary get a free pass on any of that stuff?

Hillary gets a pass? In what reality is Hillary Clinton not being constantly shit on by both the left and the right?

Let me reiterate. Hillary supporters give her a pass. Media gives her a pass.

 

[Mael]

Let me reiterate. Hillary supporters give her a pass. Media gives her a pass.

The same media that are propping Sanders for their ratings?

 

[Big Baybee]

Let me reiterate. Hillary supporters give her a pass. Media gives her a pass.

How does the media give her a pass?

 

[legacyzero]

The same media that are propping Sanders for their ratings?

Receipts please

How does the media give her a pass?

The amount of coverage she gets. Softball questions. Not reporting on her inacuracies, special interests, flip flops, etc.

Bernie rallies and speeches are ignored, especially on CNN.

 

[metalslimer]

Let me reiterate. Hillary supporters give her a pass. Media gives her a pass.

The same media that has been reporting on her emails and Benghazi ad nauseum for years now?

Edit: where are the receipts the media gives Hilary a pass?