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[WhiskerFrisker]

What about keeping any information that we're not supposed to know in a spoiler thread is so hard to understand? Keep that shit out and stop trying argue nonsense. Yes people can enjoy a game if they were spoiled but certain elements of the story won't have the same emotional response like if the player was unaware beforehand. Why is this being discussed?

 

[SSReborn]

Agree completely, ND always makes U4 looks super cool in their gameplay presentations, like they constantly move, run away from enemies and re engage them, using ropes etc, and we all know there isn't any actual need for that, ypu have plenty of ammo, regenerating health, there is no real sense of danger, it can never be as intense and nerve breaking as TLOU's combat.

Honestly I was kind of hoping they would at least cancel the regenerating health for U4, I don't know any game that has a real sense of danger and tension with this health system, it sucks.

I feel like you will be forced to play like that in this game more than the previous entries due to how destructible everything seems to be in this entry. Even the little touches like the sandbags deforming and pieces of wood breaking off of cover have shown that they are thinking about keeping the player moving which has always been where Uncharted has shined most.

Edit: it also depends on the changes to AI as well I guess we'll see overall how it turns out

 

[Gurish]

What you talking about depends on difficulty .
Things were in now way intense and nerve breaking in TLOU on normal .
Plus on higher difficulty regenerating health don't mean much when 2 or 3 shots can kill you .
I can see on the hard difficulty and above you need to used all your tools in UC4 .

Yea definitely, TLOU is one of the few games that hard is a must (and recommended without listen mode), don't know many games that their gameplay change so drastically because of a few tweaks in the options menu.

When someone say that TLOU is "Uncharted with zombies" I know for certain that he played on normal or even worse, easy.

So yea, Hard is a must in that game as it changes the gameplay fron an action game to survival.

Uncharted on higher difficulties on the other hand, just makes the gameplay worse, you still have tons of ammo and regenerating health, only now you die fasterand you are limited in your movement and most time you just camp in a certain spot and take shots slowly and carefully.

I feel like you will be forced to play like that in this game more than the previous entries due to how destructible everything seems to be in this entry. Even the little touches like the sandbags deforming and pieces of wood breaking off of cover have shown that they are thinking about keeping the player moving which has always been where Uncharted has shined most.

I agree that U4 seems much more dynamic than previous entries, no doubt gameplay will be better in general, but I'm not sure how drastically it will change camping overall, already seen couple of journos playing like that in the latest demo, it might be harder than before but you can still find good spots.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yea definitely, TLOU is one of the few games that hard is a must (and recommended without listen mode), don't know many games that their gameplay change so drastically because of a few tweaks in the options menu.

When someone say that TLOU is "Uncharted with zombies" I know for certain that he played on normal or even worse, easy.

So yea, Hard is a must in that game as it changes the gameplay fron an action game to survival.

Uncharted on higher difficulties on the other hand, just makes the gameplay worse, you still have tons of ammo and regenerating health, only now you die fasterand you are limited in your movement and most time you just camp in a certain spot and take shots slowly and carefully.

Still like SSReborn said with destructible cover that alone can change how the game plays .
Either way i expect this to play very different comapre to other UC games but time will tell.

 

[lukeskymac]

Agree completely, ND always makes U4 looks super cool in their gameplay presentations, like they constantly move, run away from enemies and re engage them, using ropes etc, and we all know there isn't any actual need for that, ypu have plenty of ammo, regenerating health, there is no real sense of danger, it can never be as intense and nerve breaking as TLOU's combat.

That's really silly.

 

[Gurish]

That's really silly.

Great post.

 

[WhiskerFrisker]

I agree that U4 seems much more dynamic than previous entries, no doubt gameplay will be better in general, but I'm not sure how drastically it will change camping overall, already seen couple of journos playing like that in the latest demo, it might be harder than before but you can still find good spots.

Not only are the journalist bad players, the demo was on easy. In no way should you be complaining about that playstyle when it's on easy, and the journalists were still close to dying.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Yea definitely, TLOU is one of the few games that hard is a must (and recommended without listen mode), don't know many games that their gameplay change so drastically because of a few tweaks in the options menu.

When someone say that TLOU is "Uncharted with zombies" I know for certain that he played on normal or even worse, easy.

So yea, Hard is a must in that game as it changes the gameplay fron an action game to survival.

Uncharted on higher difficulties on the other hand, just makes the gameplay worse, you still have tons of ammo and regenerating health, only now you die fasterand you are limited in your movement and most time you just camp in a certain spot and take shots slowly and carefully.

I mainly do all that stuff just to be cool. Like I said, its a power fantasy, rigorously calibrated and playtested to be accessible to millions of people.

You also touch on why the higher difficulties in UC never really interested me before. Its the same thing, but more tedious with enemies given more health/you less health. It goes against the whole power fantasy narrative I primarily play these games for, and whats clearly the developers intent for creating them.

I think TLOU is really quite brilliant in making a survival horror game thats still built to be accessible to a lot of people. Where in UC where you get in a fight with somebody, you'll win all the fights and any damage that happen you can just hide behind a wall and it goes away. In TLOU, even if you DO win a melee battle(and you often won't!), that damage sticks with you. Your supplies drop. Now you got 2/5th life left, 3 bullets with a shaky aim, a brick, no medkits, and you have no idea where the enemies are.

And like I said, its not really UC's fault that it cant be as good as TLOU. Its simply how its formula is calibrated to be this popcorn matinee adventure. Its breezy pop insubstantial status is built into its gears.

 

[Gurish]

Not only are the journalist bad players, the demo was on easy. In no way should you be complaining about that playstyle when it's on easy, and the journalists were still close to dying.

A fair point.

I mainly do all that stuff just to be cool. Like I said, its a power fantasy, rigorously calibrated and playtested to be accessible to millions of people.

You also touch on why the higher difficulties in UC never really interested me before. Its the same thing, but more tedious with enemies given more health/you less health. It goes against the whole power fantasy narrative I primarily play these games for, and whats clearly the developers intent for creating them.

I think TLOU is really quite brilliant in making a survival horror game thats still built to be accessible to a lot of people. Where in UC where you get in a fight with somebody, you'll win all the fights and any damage that happen you can just hide behind a wall and it goes away. In TLOU, even if you DO win a melee battle(and you often won't!), that damage sticks with you. Your supplies drop. Now you got 2/5th life left, 3 bullets with a shaky aim, a brick, no medkits, and you have no idea where the enemies are.

And like I said, its not really UC's fault that it cant be as good as TLOU. Its simply how its formula is calibrated to be this popcorn matinee adventure. Its breezy pop insubstantial status is built into its gears.

Yea, no arguing here, though I still think that they could maybe tweak the health system and maintain that power fantasy only adding a sense of danger or be a little more tense.

ND's PSX demo is one of the coolest playthroughs I've ever seen in a game, just wish the game forced you to be as dynamic, not that it was up to the player, I like to feel like I have to do it in order to complete the section, not only because it's more fun.

Anyway, I agree that the best Uncharted experience is playing it on normal and move a lot during gun fights, using melee, shooting while hanging etc. in short, just having pure fun and experimenting even if the game isn't forcing you to do so.

I will play U4 on normal because of that.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

One thing I liked about Rise of the Tomb Raider was health regen was disabled during battles on Hard difficulty. This really encouraged a lot of stealth, bow and arrow usage, utilizing the explosives and tools of the environments, instead of just going in guns blazing recklessly knowing your health is gonna come back the second you hide behind cover. I thought that was an interesting tweak from an obviously Uncharted inspired game.

 

[The God]

we really gonna act like TLoU forces you to play like its E3 demo in every encounter lol

 

[gamerMan]

I mainly do all that stuff just to be cool. Like I said, its a power fantasy, rigorously calibrated and playtested to be accessible to millions of people.

You also touch on why the higher difficulties in UC never really interested me before. Its the same thing, but more tedious with enemies given more health/you less health. It goes against the whole power fantasy narrative I primarily play these games for, and whats clearly the developers intent for creating them.

I think TLOU is really quite brilliant in making a survival horror game thats still built to be accessible to a lot of people. Where in UC where you get in a fight with somebody, you'll win all the fights and any damage that happen you can just hide behind a wall and it goes away. In TLOU, even if you DO win a melee battle(and you often won't!), that damage sticks with you. Your supplies drop. Now you got 2/5th life left, 3 bullets with a shaky aim, a brick, no medkits, and you have no idea where the enemies are.

And like I said, its not really UC's fault that it cant be as good as TLOU. Its simply how its formula is calibrated to be this popcorn matinee adventure. Its breezy pop insubstantial status is built into its gears.

Exactly, this is my biggest problem with Uncharted. It is just not challenging once you figure out how to play it. As long as you keep moving, you never die even on the harder difficulties. There is no tension. You will keep regenerating your health. You can basically trigger the AI running in and taking them out guns blazing.

Even in the platforming segments and set pieces , there is no sense of skill required. These segments basically autocomplete themselves. While the set pieces look cool, nobody ever dies during them as they aren't really challenging but designed to look cool. They are basically cut scenes with limited input. These games can be beat with your eyes closed. I really hope this game is more skill based than the previous games.

The fact that it is being made by the Last Of Us Team and the people that made Uncharted 2 means that it is going to be infinitely better than part 3. I like how open the combat feels now as in the previous games you felt boxed off in small sections with 110 guys running at you like they are on suicidal crack.

I really hope they add some challenge and skill to the game especially in the platforming and set piece sections.

 

[The God]

What would make the platforming and set pieces "challenging" to you?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I think they're taking the Uncharted formula as far as it can go. I think they're well aware of its limitations in game design, like all its little scripted "whooooooa that ledge almost/just broke this is really dangerous although that ledge breaks every single time and is pre-determined by the script to fake a sense of danger that doesn't really exist!". Like that's just baked in to the game now, so they tried to best to make it as open as possible so it feels like the player has a bit more control. Like there are more than one way up the tower in the Madgascar encounter, with very fast fluid animations. The Madgascar chase after Sam has a Point A and a Point B that always ends in the same place, but they give you a bit more freedom in how you get there with alternate paths or wider environments to drive through. And while the combat is still built for maximum spectacle and accessiblity, they now offer more variety in how player approaches encounters, through a combination of increased weapons, movement abilities, larger playspaces, different alert phases(Stealth, action, and now being able to go back and forth between the two), NPC helpers, aggressive/accurate AI who have similar abilities, etc.

Maybe it wont be more "difficult", but they seem to be trying to make it more of a, ya know, video game, with player choice and interactivity and shit. Like they can't make "Sam drives away on a motorcyle while the player holds the trigger down with his infinite ammo uzi" challenging. I mean that's just Uncharted. Accessible gorgeous cinematic adventure spectacle is what the series is, and to make it "challenging" would require making a whole new game.

Like the Last of Us, perhaps.

 

[lukeskymac]

TLoU is probably my GOAT game, but boy oh boy you guys sure are overpraising its actual game mechanics over Uncharted's. You talk about its pulpy nature as an inherent immersion breaker, as if TLoU didn't have very gamey design decisions that actually make the game less immersive the higher up you go on the difficulty scale, even though that's where TLoU shines the most as a whole. Hello, painfully obvious rigged ammo drops!

TLoU on Normal is actually easier than Uncharted 2 on Normal, due to how ammo isn't an issue at all (as opposed to what the fuck are you kidding me scarce on Grounded), the overall slower combat pacing, re-engageable stealth, and how enemies have shittier aiming and never use auto weapons with one late-game exception.

Drake's faster and more accurate than Joel, but so are his enemies. The idea that Uncharted's action-oriented nature makes it inherently less challenging than TLoU regardless of difficulty levels is NUTS.

And then there's this whole post:

Exactly, this is my biggest problem with Uncharted. It is just not challenging once you figure out how to play it. As long as you keep moving, you never die even on the harder difficulties. There is no tension. You will keep regenerating your health. You can basically trigger the AI running in and taking them out guns blazing.

I'm close to banging my head against the table. UC2 Crushing is harder than TLoU Survivor, and the only reason it's not as hard as Grounded is due to the aforementioned painfully forced scarcity. How can you post that with a straight face?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I thought it was universally agreed upon that all The Last of Us discussion is assumed we're talking about Hard mode.

Does UC2 crushing do anything even remotely interesting besides "you die really fast and enemies have more health". Are the enemies more aggressive in their use of cover/flanking/attacking, are there different enemy encounters? Are there less weapons, more enemies? Does the HUD disappear, are checkpoints removed? If its really just "its the same game, but now the bullet sponge enemies are MORE bullet spongy and you're very fragile so it encourages boring safe cover shooter play!"

then man thats not much of an argument in its favor

 

[lukeskymac]

The amount of gameplay changes involved in the first three Uncharteds is irrelevant, especially in this thread about 4 which we know has plenty of. The point is that TLoU is far from being a significantly more challenging game, which is bafflingly being stated in this page.

Also, want to talk only about TLoU on Hard? Fine. Ammo isn't scarce enough to be a real concern unless you're blind (the most balanced difficulty in this regard being Survivor), Uncharted's AI does get more aggressive like TLoU's and player health is still large enough to make calculated run-and-gun/steel fist maneuvers viable (and sometimes optimal). Not seeing where "le matinee movie" ruins tension. Oh, and there's that "Uncharted's enemies are bullet sponges" meme again. I wonder what's your opinion on games with ACTUAL bullet sponges.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

yea ok

 

[Gurish]

I played and beat U2 on crushing (have platinum and can give psn name is you want) it's easier than TLOU on Hard, and much less intense, honestly Uncharted only gets worse the more you up the difficulty, it's not that it's so much harder, you don't feel like you're stretching your limits and use every skill you have in the game, it's just more tedious and you need to have more patience, TLOU only gets better the more you up the difficulty (not included Grounded, which was too much for me and I couldn't handle it), it only shows how mechanically it works very well, and how skilled based it is.

 

[potatohead]

Exactly, this is my biggest problem with Uncharted. It is just not challenging once you figure out how to play it. As long as you keep moving, you never die even on the harder difficulties. There is no tension. You will keep regenerating your health. You can basically trigger the AI running in and taking them out guns blazing.

You just described every singleplayer game ever.

The better you learn the mechanics of the game, the easier the game gets. That's.... very observant, I guess?

 

[SomTervo]

I played and beat U2 on crushing (have platinum and can give psn name is you want) it's easier than TLOU on Hard, and much less intense, honestly Uncharted only gets worse the more you up the difficulty, it's not that it's so much harder, you don't feel like you're stretching your limits and use every skill you have in the game, it's just more tedious and you need to have more patience, TLOU only gets better the more you up the difficulty (not included Grounded, which was too much for me and I couldn't handle it), it only shows how mechanically it works very well, and how skilled based it is.

Weird you say that about UC2 - Uncharted 1 and 3 are the ones which aren't fun on Crushing

Uncharted 2 is incredible on Crushing. It's the only way to play the game. You need to be accurate, tactical and mobile. It's only unfair in 1 or 2 brief spots (unlike 1/3 which are unfair frequently). The level design gives you freedom to control the enemies/pace.

Same goes for TLoU on Survivor and Grounded. Though Grounded has a couple of BRUTAL bits. As i mentioned earlier in this thread, the last fight in Left Behind on Grounded is the single hardest singleplayer experience ive ever had. But it was fair, well designed, and fun, even up to the last attempt.

 

[Gurish]

You just described every singleplayer game ever.

The better you learn the mechanics of the game, the easier the game gets. That's.... very observant, I guess?

To tell you the truth I don't know what he is talking about, from my experience the higher the difficulty in Uncharted the more you need to stand still, moving all the time will get you killed, you need to stay as long as you can behind cover, and once you are forced to switch (too much grenades or heavy armor dudes are getting close) than run away to another cover, repeat etc.

 

[SomTervo]

To tell you the truth I don't know what he is talking about, from my experience the higher the difficulty in Uncharted the more you need to stand still, moving all the time will get you killed, you need to stay as long as you can behind cover, and once you are forced to switch (too much grenades or heavy armor dudes are getting close) than run away to another cover, repeat etc.

No way. On Crushing in UC2 you'll have grenades on your head every five seconds or so. You HAVE to keep moving.

As an off-topic aside, i'm playing Quantum Break right now on PC and it has some fantastic action, mechanics, AI and encounter design.

 

[gamerMan]

You just described every singleplayer game ever.

The better you learn the mechanics of the game, the easier the game gets. That's.... very observant, I guess?

I think the reason this game is easy is because you never have to worry about your lives so there is never any threat of dying in the combat, set pieces, or platforming. If you are getting shot at, you just run around and find somewhere safe and regenerate your lives. In Last of Us, you actually have to worry about getting hit since you take damage and restoring your health has to be managed.

 

[Gurish]

No way. On Crushing in UC2 you'll have grenades on your head every five seconds or so. You HAVE to keep moving.

You keep moving to another cover, it's not like in normal that you can melee that dude in front of everyone, run n' gun people in the open and play freely, you just being as passive and defensive as you can, that what worked for me and I beat it without much problems.

 

[potatohead]

I think the reason this game is easy is because you never have to worry about your lives so there is never any threat of dying in the combat, set pieces, or platforming. If you are getting shot at, you just run around and find somewhere safe and regenerate your lives. In Last of Us, you actually have to worry about getting hit since you take damage and restoring your health has to be managed.

So basically regenerating health versus not regenerating health.

Not that I think that's right or wrong. I like limited health options well generally too.

 

[Jigolo]

One thing is for certain. Fuck TLoU on grounded. I got stuck on the sniper part and just quit after retrying so many times.

 

[Gurish]

So basically regenerating health versus not regenerating health.

Not that I think that's right or wrong. I like limited health options well generally.

It's not that I disagree with you, but I don't think Uncharted 2's can be weak based on just that aspect of the gameplay alone.

I don't think U2 is weak, it was very fun, one of my favorites last gen, combat is just not as intense and skilled based as TLOU, more like a power fantasy like some here said, that's what I felt.

 

[Joystick]

Watch how the enemy (top right) reacts to Nate's grenade:

Too busy watching how the enemy (top left) reacts to the explosion

 

[SomTervo]

You keep moving to another cover, it's not like in normal that you can melee that dude in front of everyone, run n' gun people in the open and play freely, you just being as passive and defensive as you can, that what worked for me and I beat it without much problems.

Aha, that's the thing though. We chatted about this a couple of pages back.

You DO get those moments. Those balls-to-the-wall thriller stunt moments. They happen less often but are a million times more intense and exciting because you're legit surviving by the seat of your pantaloons

 

[Shin-chan]

One thing I liked about Rise of the Tomb Raider was health regen was disabled during battles on Hard difficulty. This really encouraged a lot of stealth, bow and arrow usage, utilizing the explosives and tools of the environments, instead of just going in guns blazing recklessly knowing your health is gonna come back the second you hide behind cover. I thought that was an interesting tweak from an obviously Uncharted inspired game.

I thought this was a pretty cool difficulty tweak which was marred by just how many healing items you were given. It forced you to use them I guess, but that's just an instant full heal.

They needed to take longer to apply. Not too long, as it is still an action game, but there needs to be some drawback.

 

[lukeskymac]

As an off-topic aside, i'm playing Quantum Break right now on PC and it has some fantastic action, mechanics, AI and encounter design.

I'm doing the same, but I'm far less impressed than you. I think it has a very good idea on how to tackle TPS combat dynamically, but it severely lacks in execution. Still an OK game so far, but I'm more impressed by the real time GI and the look it gives the game, even with all its flaws.

One thing is for certain. Fuck TLoU on grounded. I got stuck on the sniper part and just quit after retrying so many times.

There's a way to go through that part that doesn't require any ammo. You stay on the left side of the map as much as possible, and when you trigger some hunters to go after you right after passing by an open door of a nearby house, you go back (without being heard or seen) up the wall and wait for them to leave that corridor part of the map. Then you vault over the wall down again and sprint until you reach the fence, which you also vault over.

Then you keep sprinting like a madman past the hunters on the backyard and in the house. You don't have to worry about any of them because as soon as you kill the sniper they all despawn. It's a cheesy way to do it but that encounter really is one of the two "brutal bits" SomTervo mentioned.

Spoiler

And it's all the ammo drop system's fault.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I thought this was a pretty cool difficulty tweak which was marred by just how many healing items you were given. It forced you to use them I guess, but that's just an instant full heal.

They needed to take longer to apply. Not too long, as it is still an action game, but there needs to be some drawback.

There's also something like health packs in Halo CE or Reach, where they had rechargable health but there was also a health system in place you had to manage.

I also like Halo's difficulty settings. You have more enemies, higher ranked enemies, completely different enemy encounters, smarter AI who are more aggressive/dodge more grenades, change in weapon/vehicle options, on top of the usual "you die faster/they take more bullets". I think that stuff is interesting, and I think its action game design is strong enough to allow a variety of play styles inside the Legendary difficulty.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

There's also something like health packs in Halo CE or Reach, where they had rechargable health but there was also a health system in place you had to manage.

I also like Halo's difficulty settings. You have more enemies, higher ranked enemies, completely different enemy encounters, smarter AI who are more aggressive/dodge more grenades, change in weapon/vehicle options, on top of the usual "you die faster/they take more bullets". I think that stuff is interesting, and I think its action game design is strong enough to allow a variety of play styles inside the Legendary difficulty.

Sounds like what I heard UC4 will be doing which is excellent. different enemy encounters, placements and smarter AI and reaction on top of lower health sounds like a challenge.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I see where you guys are coming from re: Uncharted being a much more breezy game than TLOU (which forces a certain playstyle and dynamic on the player), but MANY of the best action games can be cheesed in a similar fashion to Uncharted where you'll go the entire game using bread-and-butter combos (BNB in Uncharted being cover camping) and never do anything "cool." I don't really have an issue with a game leaving it up to the player to be amazing. Platinum Games has an entire suite of titles that can be beaten like you're falling asleep, or played to be highlight reel footage.

The difference maker in this regard isn't health systems, or higher enemy damage, or the tone of the game, but AI. It's all about AI. If the AI is as dynamic as the player can be, that will force the player to be more dynamic, and force the player to utilize more of the game's mechanics. That's why I've always argued that higher difficulties in Uncharted shouldn't be about overwhelming the player with more damaging gunplay and Sniper/RPG enemis, but FASTER enemies who move like Drake (AND USE THE ROPE SWING) and attempt to flank and push you out of cover.

I don't need Uncharted to be punishing and tense. That's what The Last of Us is for. I want Uncharted to become more and more kinetic as I raise the difficulty. By the time you hit Crushing it should look like monkeys having a shootout.

 

[Alienous]

The AI is important, but I'd say the difference in Uncharted and The Last of Us mostly comes from the level design.

The levels in Uncharted 1/2/3 generally don't accommodate the decision making the levels in The Last of Us do, and it seems like Uncharted 4 is making that leap. Uncharted 2's train level probably provides more options to the player than most other combat levels in that game, and that's just a binary 'travel on top, or in the cabins' option.

Uncharted 4 seems to be designed to allow players to express their individuality in how they choose to play, and that's something The Last of Us does also. The difference seems to be the resource management of TLOU vs. the traversal options of UC4.

 

[lukeskymac]

I see where you guys are coming from re: Uncharted being a much more breezy game than TLOU (which forces a certain playstyle and dynamic on the player), but MANY of the best action games can be cheesed in a similar fashion to Uncharted where you'll go the entire game using bread-and-butter combos (BNB in Uncharted being cover camping) and never do anything "cool." I don't really have an issue with a game leaving it up to the player to be amazing. Platinum Games has an entire suite of titles that can be beaten like you're falling asleep, or played to be highlight reel footage.

The difference maker in this regard isn't health systems, or higher enemy damage, or the tone of the game, but AI. It's all about AI. If the AI is as dynamic as the player can be, that will force the player to be more dynamic, and force the player to utilize more of the game's mechanics. That's why I've always argued that higher difficulties in Uncharted shouldn't be about overwhelming the player with more damaging gunplay and Sniper/RPG enemis, but FASTER enemies who move like Drake (AND USE THE ROPE SWING) and attempt to flank and push you out of cover.

I don't need Uncharted to be punishing and tense. That's what The Last of Us is for. I want Uncharted to become more and more kinetic as I raise the difficulty. By the time you hit Crushing it should look like monkeys having a shootout.

I agree with everything EXCEPT the rope. I feel it should be a Drake thing.

 

[zsynqx]

Another way to increase difficulty without resorting to spamming RPGs at the player would be to reduce weapon accuracy. I feel it would encourage players to further engage with the traversal and stealth mechanics, as they would be required reduce the engagement distances to be effective with a weapon (especially in these larger combat areas)

 

[momshotdad]

It's getting really tough to avoid these videos and spoilers but I have to stay dark just a little bit longer....

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Enemies who challenge you more than just "they take more hits and you take less" is key, yes. It's the same feeling you get when you play bayonetta on hard and you got two pairs of them niggas who always dodge your attacks and you can't use witch time against them, or in ninja gaiden black when you run into those black ninjas who throw explosive shruikens and shit.

 

[potatohead]

I don't think U2 is weak, it was very fun, one of my favorites last gen, combat is just not as intense and skilled based as TLOU, more like a power fantasy like some here said, that's what I felt.

I don't think it's weak either, it is my favourite Uncharted as well. Was just pointing out that I think to the person I was responding to the major issue that he prefers the pacing of non-regenerating health.

Just a matter of preference and style. It's just not the way of design in Uncharted.

Uncharted is designed with regenerating health in mind, but also in letting people traverse the game areas in-combat much more than you are meant to in TLOU.

It's a different style, and ND has shown they are responsible and thoughtful in implementing both kinds of systems.

 

[lukeskymac]

Another way to increase difficulty without resorting to spamming RPGs at the player would be to reduce weapon accuracy. I feel it would encourage players to further engage with the traversal and stealth mechanics, as they would be required reduce the engagement distances to be effective with a weapon (especially in these larger combat areas)

That's to justify in-world without making it into TLoU. Pretty much everyone Drake kills are trained mercenaries (or pirates with a superhuman ability to dodge bullets in UC1's case)

 

[Spring-Loaded]

TLoU's basic "alerted enemies," gameplay is fantastic. I really can't say the pure stealth in that game was good, what with enemies doing the "walk between two points for no reason and stare at a wall," thing. And there wasn't enough special or memorable about individual encounters outside of stuff like the key card + generator sequence — no mixing of humans and infected in the main game too. It reminded me of Uncharted 1's strict "straightforward traversal section —> straightforward combat section — repeat" formula with no mixing of gameplay styles in any one encounter. TLoU's core combat is far better than Uncharted 1's though.

Could enemies ever lose track of the player during a fight in TLoU?

 

[The God]

https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/721837623749181440?s=09

 

[Net_Wrecker]

I agree with everything EXCEPT the rope. I feel it should be a Drake thing.

Nah mang. The BEST moments in any action game are when you go up against enemies who have all the same attacks you do. Shooting players down in the UC4 Beta trying to hulk smash you off a rope swing feels great. In singleplayer where they could've potentially turn that into a contextual dodge or transition into a melee brawl omg. It's the perfect adventure movie scenario.

Enemies who challenge you more than just "they take more hits and you take less" is key, yes. It's the same feeling you get when you play bayonetta on hard and you got two pairs of them niggas who always dodge your attacks and you can't use witch time against them, or in ninja gaiden black when you run into those black ninjas who throw explosive shruikens and shit.

I've been dying for shooters to adapt that character action game philosophy for years. Like how don't we have a Max Payne game where the enemies use bullet time on you?

I want the shooter version of this:

 

[generic_username]

Agree completely, ND always makes U4 looks super cool in their gameplay presentations, like they constantly move, run away from enemies and re engage them, using ropes etc, and we all know there isn't any actual need for that, ypu have plenty of ammo, regenerating health, there is no real sense of danger, it can never be as intense and nerve breaking as TLOU's combat.

Honestly I was kind of hoping they would at least cancel the regenerating health for U4, I don't know any game that has a real sense of danger and tension with this health system, it sucks.

Why would you want to have limited health, tension etc.. in an uncharted game. It does not make sense. UC's combat should be about mobility, improvisation , verticality and be over the top. Having limited health thereby forcing cover shooting and reducing mobility is the worst thing anyone could do to UC. UC4's combat sandboxes seems to be on another level compared to the flat scenarios of TLOU.

I dont feel tension playing Vanquish as well. Should that have TLOU's mechanics.

 

[Alienous]

Nah mang. The BEST moments in any action game are when you go up against enemies who have all the same attacks you do. Shooting players down in the UC4 Beta trying to hulk smash you off a rope swing feels great. In singleplayer where they could've potentially turn that into a contextual dodge or transition into a melee brawl omg. It's the perfect adventure movie scenario.

I've been dying for shooters to adapt that character action game philosophy for years. Like how don't we have a Max Payne game where the enemies use bullet time on you?

I want the shooter version of this:

That reminds me of some cool shit in Splinter Cell: Conviction, when you face Third Echelon enemies who have sonar goggles. You hear the sound your googles (that are OP and let you see through walls) make coming from the enemies and its a "oh shit" moment.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Nah mang. The BEST moments in any action game are when you go up against enemies who have all the same attacks you do. Shooting players down in the UC4 Beta trying to hulk smash you off a rope swing feels great. In singleplayer where they could've potentially turn that into a contextual dodge or transition into a melee brawl omg. It's the perfect adventure movie scenario.



I've been dying for shooters to adapt that character action game philosophy for years. Like how don't we have a Max Payne game where the enemies use bullet time on you?

I want the shooter version of this:

you want some Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes Moriarty "Come now... you think you're the only one who can play this game?" attack plan visualization shit

I happened to make a thread about that.

 

[zsynqx]

TLoU's basic "alerted enemies," gameplay is fantastic. I really can't say the pure stealth in that game was good, what with enemies doing the "walk between two points for no reason and stare at a wall," thing. And there wasn't enough special or memorable about individual encounters outside of stuff like the key card + generator sequence — no mixing of humans and infected in the main game too. It reminded me of Uncharted 1's strict "straightforward traversal section —> straightforward combat section — repeat" formula with no mixing of gameplay styles in any one encounter. TLoU's core combat is far better than Uncharted 1's though.

Could enemies ever lose track of the player during a fight in TLoU?

Absolutely

 

[GribbleGrunger]

The marketing is crazy:

https://twitter.com/Neil_Druckmann/status/721837623749181440

'After ordering dishwashing gloves I realized that our marketing is on fucking point.'