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[farmerboy]

I dont get some of the reactions in this thread.

I also dont get why Sony wants to do this now, 3 years in. But I'll tell you this;

I'm 40
I have disposable income
Consoles/gaming are my hobby
I like it when my games look nicer.

I will most likely buy a PS4K.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

At this point, I also dont get why I would buy one but I will

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Starting in October, every PS4 game is required to ship with both a “Base Mode” which will run on the currently available PS4 and a “NEO Mode” for use on the new console.

Final Fantasy XV release date: September 30th.

Square-Enix, I see what you did there!

 

[ElTorro]

That's what I get out of it too. The GPU is nice, but it is going to be bottlenecked on multiple fronts. I'm surprised they didn't try to push the bandwidth more.

I am not surprised that the memory bandwidth would only receive a mild increase. They would want to keep the general architecture and layout of a 256bit memory controller and bus, and 208 GB/s would be an upclock from 5,5 Ghz to 6,5 Ghz. You can't do more than that without changing the memory bus.

 

[Lionheart]

The choice to not allow NEO-only games is great news! That's the best scenario for current PS4 owners like me. I hope the base games won't be worse than they are now and then I'll just stay on PS4 until the PS4k drops in price or if I want an additional one for the bedroom or so.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Well, Digital Foundry's work is about to get a lot harder.

 

[Malcolm9]

Great news

PS4 is really a bit underpowered. Shows in recent AAA titles imo

Will definately upgrade

I forgot how awful Ratchet & Clank and Uncharted 4 look.........

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Techheads: is this new GPU powerful enough to finally enable anisotropic filtering?

 

[KillGore]

What makes you think devs give a fuck about backlash

People really think this is going to end in sunshine and roses for both Base and Neo users?

Well, I would think they give a fuck about sales, and until ps4k can catch up to ps4 I think ps4 will be the dev's focus.

 

[Zoon]

Starting in October, every PS4 game is required to ship with both a “Base Mode” which will run on the currently available PS4 and a “NEO Mode” for use on the new console.

Forgot to comment on this, does this exist so there won't be Neo exclusives or does this also mean that devs will be forced to do Neo mode ?

 

[iTehDroiD]

You don't know that the ps4 games won't be just the crappy version. I'm worried about it.

I understand that, but ps4 and ps4k share the exact same architecture. That makes it much easier to optimize for both at the same time.

 

[kyser73]

I dont get some of the reactions in this thread.

I also dont get why Sony wants to do this now, 3 years in. But I'll tell you this;

I'm 40
I have disposable income
Consoles/gaming are my hobby
I like it when my games look nicer.

I will most likely buy a PS4K.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

At this point, I also dont get why I would buy one but I will

Preach it 40-somethingGaf!

I'm with you on this,

 

[Schweinehund]

Only way I'll consider it is if they add a retroactive mode for older games like Bloodborne (and it plays at 60 fps). Otherwise I think i'll just stick with upping my PC.

 

[qa_engineer]

Forgot to comment on this, does this exist so there won't be Neo exclusives or does this also mean that devs will be forced to do Neo mode ?

Forced to do neo mode. You can't submit a game for release in Sony platform without meeting their TRC or requirements checklist. Building an exclusive game for neo is probably on their nope checklist.

 

[Audioboxer]

Has everyone forgot devs will still be releasing Xbox One versions? Original PS4 copies will still run in par with XB1 or slightly better.

 

[family_guy]

umm What? Obviously, if you spent $800 on a PC in 2013, your incremental upgrade today would be less than spending $800 on a PC now, or if not then you'd have one hell of a PC at another $800. Not to mention the added benefit of what a PC also brings besides gaming, and lets also not forget the cheaper prices for PC games.

Bottom line is if you want the best of the best you buy PC. These .5 upgrades to consoles just seem pointless to me against the aspect of PC gaming.The only real thing you're losing out on are console exclusives, which are becoming less and less. Note, i haven't been a PC gamer since the 90s and it's starting to look like i'm going back

Since when? First party exclusives will always be there. There are third party exclusives as well like some Persona 5 and Yakuza. Haven't been able to play Madden on PC for at least 8 years if not more. Multiplayer on consoles is just a better experience. Easier to create parties and jump in games that friends are playing and certainly less cheating. Local co-op isn't as prevalent as it used to be, but it still is something that consoles have more of. In any case, I hear people say they'll just get rid of their PS4 and go PC. What sense does that make? Keep it for the exclusives. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do PC gaming and console gaming. Many people already do.

 

[TAJ]

Techheads: is this new GPU powerful enough to finally enable anisotropic filtering?

Unless it can become self-aware and teach devs how to do that, no.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

With over 40 million "Base" PS4s out there I don't think devs are going to give you 20fps games. At least not if they don't want backlash.

Some people seem to be missing the point that devs and pubs will do what ever they .
With or without PS4k it not going to change much.
If devs were planing to cuts res for eg later on in the gen it was going to happen either way .

 

[Camp1nCarl]

With over 40 million "Base" PS4s out there I don't think devs are going to give you 20fps games. At least not if they don't want backlash.

We've heard this time and again, but the most recent example of the N3DS and 3DS say otherwise. "Nintendo wouldn't abandon millions of regular 3DS owners" and then we get games like Hyrule Warriors and Xenoblade Chronicles. So it shouldn't be that difficult to understand why people have trepidations considering the most RECENT example of this has been done poorly. Will Sony actually stick to there word and regular PS4 games won't have more optimization problems? Maybe, but it could be a shit show as well. Only time will tell, but I personally don't understand how some people have no clue why a lot of us are skeptical that this won't the diminish the quality of standard PS4 games. We'll have to wait and see...

 

[amstradcpc]

Techheads: is this new GPU powerful enough to finally enable anisotropic filtering?

That´s why the memory bandwidth incremented in 42 GB/s

 

[DavidDesu]

The choice to not allow NEO-only games is great news! That's the best scenario for current PS4 owners like me. I hope the base games won't be worse than they are now and then I'll just stay on PS4 until the PS4k drops in price or if I want an additional one for the bedroom or so.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Sure the odd dev could make a badly optimised base PS4 version. COULD. I don't really see that happening though. They still have to get Sony certification for the base model and I think Sony will be bullish about ensuring there's no sub par games compared to PS4K.

The base PS4 will likely always have the greater install base so I think any clever publisher/developer will fundamentally be making games for the PS4 and simply give you nicer settings for the PS4K one. That's how Sony are pitching this and ensuring it operates. No exclusive PS4K games being the key here. It really will come down to PC style higher settings for your games, nothing much greater than that.

 

[The God]

Well, I would think they give a fuck about sales, and until ps4k can catch up to ps4 I think ps4 will be the dev's focus.

Devs seem to have no problem releasing broken games, games absent of content, games loaded with preorder fuckery, microtransactions, etc -- all generation long

but for some reason people think they're afraid of releasing games that perform worse because of focusing on new hardware

 

[pastrami]

We've heard this time and again, but the most recent example of the N3DS and 3DS say otherwise. "Nintendo wouldn't abandon millions of regular 3DS owners" and then we get games like Hyrule Warriors and Xenoblade Chronicles. So it shouldn't be that difficult to understand why people have trepidations considering the most RECENT example of this has been done poorly. Will Sony actually stick to there word and regular PS4 games won't have more optimization problems? Maybe, but it could be a shit show as well. Only time will tell, but I personally don't understand how some people have no clue why a lot of us are skeptical that this won't the diminish the quality of standard PS4 games. We'll have to wait and see...

I guess the alternative is that no one should have the option to play Xenoblade Chronicles on the go, or Hyrule Warriors (a Wii U game) on the go at a decent framerate.

Hardware is finite and fixed. Coding to the metal and optimizations are only going to go so far.

 

[kyser73]

Since when? First party exclusives will always be there. There are third party exclusives as well like some Persona 5 and Yakuza. Haven't been able to play Madden on PC for at least 8 years if not more. Multiplayer on consoles is just a better experience. Easier to create parties and jump in games that friends are playing and certainly less cheating. Local co-op isn't as prevalent as it used to be, but it still is something that consoles have more of. In any case, I hear people say they'll just get rid of their PS4 and go PC. What sense does that make? Keep it for the exclusives. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do PC gaming and console gaming. Many people already do.

This kind of reasonableness is out of place here, Mr Guy.

You need to start full panic mode now.

 

[Kyoufu]

We've heard this time and again, but the most recent example of the N3DS and 3DS say otherwise. "Nintendo wouldn't abandon millions of regular 3DS owners" and then we get games like Hyrule Warriors and Xenoblade Chronicles. So it shouldn't be that difficult to understand why people have trepidations considering the most RECENT example of this has been done poorly. Will Sony actually stick to there word and regular PS4 games won't have more optimization problems? Maybe, but it could be a shit show as well. Only time will tell, but I personally don't understand how some people have no clue why a lot of us are skeptical that this won't the diminish the quality of standard PS4 games. We'll have to wait and see...

3DS is not a good comparison.

For one, N3DS has exclusive games. This automatically makes the comparison futile. Two, the 3DS hardware is so, so outdated that running a 3D action title such as Hyrule Warriors on it will make the system choke. Blame Nintendo.

 

[valkyre]

Can I ask something?

I will try with an example. A dev team who is currently trying through optimization to provide 1080p resolution for PS4, like SE with FFXV.

We assume that these guys are hard at work trying to optimize the game as they say and they target a 1080p resolution.

Now come the news of a more powerful PS4.5.

What happens to the motivation of said dev team to continue trying to optimize PS4 version for the best possible result?

Isnt PS4.5 now making things easy for them? Just put out the PS4 version in 900p (that will probably benefit the framerate as well) and have the PS4.5 version with 1080p.

Lets not forget that PS4.5 version, supposedly has to offer more than PS4 does in graphics department.

So, what stops SE, every dev out there, from just stop investing a lot of time trying to sqeeze out the maximum result, when they can simply just reduce the resolution in PS4? Who would know? The excuse will be easy : "PS4 hardware is not adequate". Nobody will know how true or false this is in their case.

And at the same time they will have their superior product on shelf for the PS4.5 .

1 stone - 2 birds.

I see a lot of sloppy devs employing such a tactic from now on.

 

[xrnzaaas]

It's not a surprise that all games will need to have the same content for both consoles and run on the "old" PS4 as well. The big question is how much time will be devoted to ensuring that they'll run in acceptable resolution, image quality and framerate instead of just flicking everything to low. I wouldn't be surprised if new games for the old PS4 actually looked worse than the ones that were already released. As for the new console, unless something unexpected happens (like my current console dies on me) I won't be buying Neo. Not because I couldn't afford it (especially after selling the old console), but because I didn't sign up for this and I won't be supporting this new trend. I've built a decent gaming PC this year so I have a plan B.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

What makes you think devs give a fuck about backlash

People really think this is going to end in sunshine and roses for both Base and Neo users?

They will care if it effect there bottom line like how it did with AC.
Neo users will get the short end of the stick .
The question is how much and that going to depend on the game , devs , pubs and Sony.

 

[Loris146]

3DS is not a good comparison.

For one, N3DS has exclusive games. This automatically makes the comparison futile. Two, the 3DS hardware is so, so outdated that running a 3D action title such as Hyrule Warriors on it will make the system choke. Blame Nintendo.

2DS is a good comparison. It's just the opposite: "worse spec ( no 3d ) " and a lower price.

 

[Mac@NeoGAF]

Going 12 at 2,1 GHz would make the CPU 100% more powerful and more in line with the GPU upgrade.

More cores is the last thing developers want.

What they want are fewer, but much faster cores.

I bet many of them would prefer a decent Quad Core running at twice the IPC of the Jaguar with the OS functionality farmed out to a separate, dedicated low power ARM chip, or something similar.

 

[pastrami]

Can I ask something?

I will try with an example. A dev team who is currently trying through optimization to provide 1080p resolution for PS4, like SE with FFXV.

We assume that these guys are hard at work trying to optimize the game as they say and they target a 1080p resolution.

Now come the news of a more powerful PS4.5.

What happens to the motivation of said dev team to continue trying to optimize PS4 version for the best possible result?

Isnt PS4.5 now making things easy for them? Just put out the PS4 version in 900p (that will probably benefit the framerate as well) and have the PS4.5 version with 1080p.

Lets not forget that PS4.5 version, supposedly has to offer more than PS4 does in graphics department.

So, what stops SE, every dev out there, from just stop investing a lot of time trying to sqeeze out the maximum result, when they can simply just reduce the resolution in PS4? Who would know? The excuse will be easy : "PS4 hardware is not adequate". Nobody will know how true or false this is in their case.

And at the same time they will have their superior product on shelf for the PS4.5 .

1 stone - 2 birds.

I see a lot of sloppy devs employing such a tactic from now on.

40 million potential customers that Square will want to please. By this same logic, developers must be shunning optimizations on the Xbox One.

 

[SamNW]

Whether or not Sony offers an official "trade-in" program, I plan to sell my original PS4 a month or so before NEO drops. That would cover more than half the cost of the upgrade. $150-200 for an upgrade 3-3.5 years into the lifecycle strikes me as pretty fair. I hear the argument for moving to PC, and I do play some games there, but if I could pay $200 every 3.5 years for a new, substantially more powerful console, I would.

This also gets me more excited for upcoming exclusives. I don't think The Last Guardian would necessarily make use of NEO, but I'd bet anything that Horizon will. I'd bet that Naughty Dog will do some optimization work for Uncharted 4—a game that already looks spectacular—as well. The Show 16 won't, but The Show 17 certainly will. God of War isn't necessarily my thing, but you can count on Santa Monica taking advantage of NEO.

From a business perspective, I understand why some people doubt this move. I have my own reservations re: good will with consumers. But I think there's a point about competition that some people are missing. PlayStation 4 is already the most powerful console on the market, but the difference is fairly small. Sony will have a "standard" and "premium" console (presumably at $299 and $399 price points), both of which will be more powerful than the X1. And, with the NX likely launching this holiday season with specs that slightly outpace the standard PS4's, PlayStation can stay ahead of the curve and retain its "most powerful" argument.

 

[orochi91]

Since when? First party exclusives will always be there. There are third party exclusives as well like some Persona 5 and Yakuza. Haven't been able to play Madden on PC for at least 8 years if not more. Multiplayer on consoles is just a better experience. Easier to create parties and jump in games that friends are playing and certainly less cheating. Local co-op isn't as prevalent as it used to be, but it still is something that consoles have more of. In any case, I hear people say they'll just get rid of their PS4 and go PC. What sense does that make? Keep it for the exclusives. It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can do PC gaming and console gaming. Many people already do.

+1

Well said.

 

[The God]

They will care if it effect there bottom line like how it did with AC.
Neo users will get the short end of the stick .
The question is how much and that going to depend on the game , devs and pubs.

Read post 2723. There are people in here acting like PS4 performing worse is out of the question, as if this generation hasn't been loaded with fuckshit.

 

[valkyre]

40 million potential customers that Square will want to please. By this same logic, developers must be shunning optimizations on the Xbox One.

how many of those 40 million customers are hardcore enough, to bitch about 900p resolution? Or lack of optimization?

IMO hardly any significant number of them.

 

[Ecotic]

The console manufacturers screwed us this time with underpowered hardware and now it looks like they all want us to pony up cash for an upgrade so we get "solid frame rates" I get the mentality behind it, ya know. For the people that want it, it's there. It doesn't seem like a value purchase to me next to just going to PC.

I've been out of the game a while, is this true? I know Xbox One doesn't compare favorably to PS4, but I thought PS4 was premier tech when released, for the price.

 

[SolarMystic]

Really cool they are forcing devs to target the original ps4. I'm totally okay with this now after my initial reservations I had when these rumors started.

I don't think it's crazy for some people to be upset, especially if they just bought a ps4 in the last year or so. These people thought they would have the best console tech for years to come and probably would have waited to buy until the ps4k released. I myself will probably never buy a console until 3 years in, as many early adopters will probably do now.

 

[alr1ght]

Maybe we can finally get some rear USB ports on this thing.

 

[amstradcpc]

More cores is the last thing developers want.

What they want are fewer, but much faster cores.

I bet many of them would prefer a decent Quad Core running at twice the IPC of the Jaguar with the OS functionality farmed out to a separate, dedicated low power ARM chip, or something similar.

I would also.But gimping a new system from the beginning is even worse.Naughty Dog wont be able to make Uncharted 4 at 60 fps if has no double allocation power for its gazillion CPU threads.

 

[Radec]

Well, Digital Foundry's work is about to get a lot harder.

Just an additional console on their testing. NX won't be getting multiplats anyway.

 

[Inglorious_ Man]

At first I was a bit skeptical about a upgraded PS4 with improved specs but the more I think about it, it is cool. I have a Sony 850c 4k tv and I am definitely upgrading to the new upgraded PS4 model. I will trade in my current PS4 at Gamestop or Best Buy around the launch of the new PS4 model, so the cost will not be too bad.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Read post 2723. There are people in here acting like PS4 performing worse is out of the question, as if this generation hasn't been loaded with fuckshit.

PS4 performing worst does not mean it happen because of PS4k.
When stuff like that happens now it get blame on devs , pub, other systems etc etc .
In the future people will blame some of it on PS4k without knowing if it had a effect or not .

 

[gofreak]

40 million potential customers that Square will want to please. By this same logic, developers must be shunning optimizations on the Xbox One.

It depends a bit too on what the accepted narrative becomes out there. 'Parity' became a big deal for the XB1 audience so many devs do - as far as I've perceived anyway - spend a lot of time trying to get the XB1 version as good as it can be. Indeed I think many may spend more time on the XB1 optimisation than PS4 - the lowest common denominator, or the 'weirder' hardware, is always more of a challenge. If 'base PS4' audiences become sensitive to resolution dips away from 1080p - for example - I can see devs responding to that.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

I"m curious if there would be any legal issues if Sony explicitly stated that all PS4 games will run on both NEO and OG PS4, but then a year from now changed that policy. Beyond a total PR nightmare, I'm curious if it would warrant a class action lawsuit of some kind.

 

[KeRaSh]

Final Fantasy XV release date: September 30th.

Square-Enix, I see what you did there!

That date seems quite convenient! I actually wouldn't be shocked if they were already working on an upgraded NEO version to please Sony since they lost an exclusive game with Versus XIII. Maybe they will announce the upgraded version at E3 after Sony announced the NEO? There's no rush anyways since the game comes out way before the NEO will.

 

[Green Yoshi]

I hope they patch older exclusives for NEO.

60 FPS Driveclub yissss.

Evolution Studios has closed, so that's very unlikely.

 

[KORNdoggy]

I've been out of the game a while, is this true? I know Xbox One doesn't compare favorably to PS4, but I thought PS4 was premier tech when released, for the price.

as far as i'm aware it was the first console gen in a while where tech didn't outpace the PC at first. but with £1000 titan graphics cards around on PC these days that was never going to be a sustainable approach to console manufacture.

 

[Rodin]

Just an additional console on their testing. NX won't be getting multiplats anyway.

Since you're from the future, can you please tell us the NX specs and gimmick so that we stop going crazy until the announcement?

 

[Jarnet87]

I won't spend the money to upgrade, but when my PS4 dies down the road I may as well get the Neo depending on price difference.

 

[NHale]

So greedy Sony is back less than 3 years after they return to the top. I guess you can't hide your true self forever. If Microsoft plays the long game and are still interested in HW business for the next decade (very doubtful) and decide to not follow this same idiot tactic, they can actually end up dominating in the HW business very soon. I can almost see the marketing for the start of the new gen. "Your new Xbox. For the entire generation. No 2nd tier console for you!"

Introducing this tactic is smart if you ignore those 30M+ owners that got the previlege of buying something early expecting that to last for the entire generation while dealing with the traditional small lineups, delayed games and early games with less features than previous gen games. Now when you should start seeing the "reward" of games being developed entirely for the new platform they release a better product in a market that was supposed to be closed. Of course they didn't promise anything but people expect every PS4 to be the same until they release the PS5 and to last at least 4-5 years. This changes the game entirely especially in their strongest market (Europe). Good luck trying to sell your new shiny PS5 in 2019 Sony because Europeans will just tell you to go take a hike for 3 years until PS5.5 is released. They fucked up their future strategy for a slightly better console now.

And yes I'm pissed because I actually have a PS4 since launch on what ended up being something hugely different that what I signed up for. Greatness awaits for PS4.5.

Has everyone forgot devs will still be releasing Xbox One versions? Original PS4 copies will still run in par with XB1 or slightly better.

If this debacle is indeed true you can't seriously expect devs polishing PS4 versions like they did before especially if Microsoft is dumb enough to not take this huge gift Sony is giving them. They actually have every interest in not doing many optimizations on the PS4 version because they have to make the PS4.5 better than the PS4 version because people will call them lazy if they don't do that. 2 years into the PS4.5 everyone will start to forget about the PS4 version and just release a 720p game and be done with it.

 

[Wishmaster92]

So it's capable of running this tech demo? What about the elemental demo running svogi?

Can't wait to see the new god of war at e3 so we can truly see how good this system will bump the visuals.