Support NeoGAF

[RJMacready73]

This is a bad idea, Sony's Devs already take a fucking age to release games, now they gotta spend even more time taking a full fat PS6 game and downgrading it to some gimped handheld? Whose playing these games? Why would you wanna play a shit version on a wee screen when you have the best version on a big screen?? This is screaming series S to me and we all know how much of a fuck up that is.. and if they decide to make exclusively handheld games.. yeah right Sony, you can barely pump out PSVR2 games so you have capacity to pump out portable games?? after seeing how you treat all your secondary hardware first hand over many years, I won't be touching this with a bargepole...

And did we also forget when the PS6 launches you'll still have the millions of PS5 consoles to support as well...

 

[Three]

The MLID article that accompanied this same leaked information was accompanied by the statement that "Magnus" is cleary PS6 and oozes a Marc Cerny design everywhere."... and in between, speculation about how will be BC with PS5, chip process management and even guessing possible performance figures...

That is, the moment you can't distinguish between what's a real leak and what isn't, at least for me, the source ceases to be trustworthy, and the next step is waiting for someone to corroborate it.
In the case of Kepler, you're not in that same situation, and you know what It is and no need to corroboration.

That said, I have in no way denied that MILD may be a source of real leaks to a greater or lesser extent. I was just saying that, given the good fortune of Kepler participating in this forum, people here who want to learn more about this topic have a better much option.

he can't control articles written about his videos but he clearly used the words "could be" implying he doesn't know and is speculating when he shared the leak:



My point was Kepler doesn't really leak info so he's not an alternative but a complement to the MLID leaks. He confirms some things after the leak when the information is out there leaked by MLID.

 

[Fess]

Personally I just want a way to play Nintendo games without compromise.

Which is not possible cause its one system. Too big for portable use, underpowered for desktop use. S/X situation is better IMO.

If we're talking strictly Nintendo then have you thought about how dev times and software output would change if they went for power and highend AAA visuals and mocap and all that jazz on their games?

And again you can't have two devices without consequences. You'll get a split userbase, split code base, split dev teams. They've done that already in the past.

What they're doing right now is walking right on the edge, since portable mode is downclocking the system. If they make the gap wider they'll get into issues getting games to run well in both modes, then it's Series S territory.

And for Sony it'll just mean $1500 total for hardware per generation, if you like both portable and stationary gaming. And this is excluding Pro devices. Enthusiasts better start saving up.

 

[TheGrat1]

Actually… Worse. Thats why i think this doesn't make any sense, but an hybrid console is the most logical move, with Sony releasing all their games on PC they doesn't have to worry about having the most powerful console anymore… Just the most powerful hybrid…

Hybrid is a shitty prospect to me. It just means devs will have to design games that run on an APU that does not consume it's entire battery life in an hour, aka: watered down. Same thing for a Series S style console as that is the new base spec that devs target and the Big boy version will just be the same thing with better frames and resolution.

The best realistic solution would be that PS6 handheld receives straight up ports of home console PS6 games like the PSP did with Sony instituting a mandatory one way port policy (all PS6 home games must be ported to the handheld, but the handheld can have its own exclusives). This way the home console games can actually push that hardware and the handheld does not have to worry about support. Cross buy would be a boon as well.

I honestly would prefer if the handheld was its own thing, even with it's own exclusives. Stop trying to come up with these dumb names like Xbox has and go back the PlayStation Portable branding. Make it powerful enough that it can get decent ports of PS6 games (including first party) and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If we're talking strictly Nintendo then have you thought about how dev times and software output would change if they went for power and highend AAA visuals and mocap and all that jazz on their games?

None of that. Same game with clean 4k resolution. Higher silicon budget for DLSS and upscaling hardware so they dont have to use FSR like in DKB.

What they're doing right now is walking right on the edge, since portable mode is downclocking the system. If they make the gap wider they'll get into issues getting games to run well in both modes, then it's Series S territory.

Keep everything same, just clock even higher in desktop mode to get good baseline resolution. This is not how Series S works, if you want to avoid that.

Personally I dont see the problem in having Series S - X like two systems.

Nintendo is likely developing with portable mode as lead hardware, which is not how development for SS/SX works, where SX is lead.

 

[Fess]

None of that. Same game with clean 4k resolution. Higher silicon budget for DLSS and upscaling hardware so they dont have to use FSR like in DKB.

I was getting concerned after DF took a look at DKB but after playing myself I feel like it's a nothing burger. I have no problem with any of that. And definitely don't want to buy two devices just to have slightly higher res and some occasional stutter gone when playing stationary. That'll be a high cost per game considering I mostly use Nintendo's devices for their exclusives.

Keep everything same, just clock even higher in desktop mode to get good baseline resolution. This is not how Series S works, if you want to avoid that.

Personally I dont see the problem in having Series S - X like two systems.

Nintendo is likely developing with portable mode as lead hardware, which is not how development for SS/SX works, where SX is lead.

Some devs will only see the higher spec as a way to get the game onto the platform. Then the dual sku becomes a problem.

 

[Landr300]

He mean the ps5 pro 2 and ps5 pro 2 portable?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Hybrid is a shitty prospect to me. It just means devs will have to design games that run on an APU that does not consume it's entire battery life in an hour, aka: watered down. Same thing for a Series S style console as that is the new base spec that devs target and the Big boy version will just be the same thing with better frames and resolution.

The best realistic solution would be that PS6 handheld receives straight up ports of home console PS6 games like the PSP did with Sony instituting a mandatory one way port policy (all PS6 home games must be ported to the handheld, but the handheld can have its own exclusives). This way the home console games can actually push that hardware and the handheld does not have to worry about support. Cross buy would be a boon as well.

I honestly would prefer if the handheld was its own thing, even with it's own exclusives. Stop trying to come up with these dumb names like Xbox has and go back the PlayStation Portable branding. Make it powerful enough that it can get decent ports of PS6 games (including first party) and let the chips fall where they may.

It's going to be all PS5 games anyway.

 

[Little Mac]

Realistically would a PS6 portable be able to hit 1080p 60fps with first party titles and have decent battery life?

 

[LordOcidax]

Hybrid is a shitty prospect to me. It just means devs will have to design games that run on an APU that does not consume it's entire battery life in an hour, aka: watered down. Same thing for a Series S style console as that is the new base spec that devs target and the Big boy version will just be the same thing with better frames and resolution.

The best realistic solution would be that PS6 handheld receives straight up ports of home console PS6 games like the PSP did with Sony instituting a mandatory one way port policy (all PS6 home games must be ported to the handheld, but the handheld can have its own exclusives). This way the home console games can actually push that hardware and the handheld does not have to worry about support. Cross buy would be a boon as well.

I honestly would prefer if the handheld was its own thing, even with it's own exclusives. Stop trying to come up with these dumb names like Xbox has and go back the PlayStation Portable branding. Make it powerful enough that it can get decent ports of PS6 games (including first party) and let the chips fall where they may.

That would means Sony back to developing for two consoles like the Vita/PSP era… Not going to happen.

 

[LordOcidax]

Realistically would a PS6 portable be able to hit 1080p 60fps with first party titles and have decent battery life?

If the game is designed around the PS6 portable hardware limitations… Yes. That's why some people don't want a PS6 Portable system.

 

[Gaiff]

Realistically would a PS6 portable be able to hit 1080p 60fps with first party titles

Yes.

and have decent battery life?

No.

 

[BlueManifest]

Hasn't Sony used that name before for another system?

 

[Loxus]

Hasn't Sony used that name before for another system?

Well, in the God of War universe, Orion appears as a playable character in the multiplayer mode of God of War: Ascension. He is based on the Greek mythological figure, Orion, a renowned hunter and a son of Poseidon.

The name "Orion" comes from Greek mythology. Orion was a famous hunter, and the constellation named after him is said to represent his figure in the sky.

"Canis" is the Latin word for "dog."
In astronomy: There are two famous constellations named Canis Major (Greater Dog) and Canis Minor (Lesser Dog). According to mythology, these are often seen as Orion's hunting dogs, following him across the sky.


So it seems Playstation has moved away from Shakespeare into Constellations for their PS6 generation.

 

[KeplerL2]

You still think Xbox is launching first (with their own proprietary locked down first party Xbox Handheld variant, like a Series S option, and unlike the handheld PC's with OS debloat and an Xbox sticker slapped on for PR), a year or two, before the PS6 and the PS6 Portable?

I believe it's possible for MS to launch the next-gen Xbox late 2026 or early 2027, while the PS6 is looking very likely a holiday 2027 launch.

 

[KeplerL2]

he can't control articles written about his videos but he clearly used the words "could be" implying he doesn't know and is speculating when he shared the leak:



My point was Kepler doesn't really leak info so he's not an alternative but a complement to the MLID leaks. He confirms some things after the leak when the information is out there leaked by MLID.

Well I was going to reveal Canis at some point but MLID beat me to it

 

[Mr Hyde]

A hybrid PS6 is probably the only way for me to continue on with Playstation.

 

[pacman4000]

So a PS6 Series X, and a PS6 Series S.

Playstation Portable = PS5 Series S

I.e. PS5 will still be around for a long time. And [software] generations are truly dead.

 

[Trunx81]

Did Sony not learn from the "Series S is holding us back" situation?

 

[Cakeboxer]

A hybrid PS6 is probably the only way for me to continue on with Playstation.

Not gonna happen. Sony loves eve candy and it would be too weak, even docked.

 

[Darsxx82]

he can't control articles written about his videos but he clearly used the words "could be" implying he doesn't know and is speculating when he shared the leak:

It wasn't just a "could be"; he was going to say that all the signs pointed to PS6, and even that "Magnus" oozed inspiration from M. Cerny throughout. He didn't even mention the possibility that it was linked to Xbox.

My point was Kepler doesn't really leak info so he's not an alternative but a complement to the MLID leaks. He confirms some things after the leak when the information is out there leaked by MLID.

??
I've seen Kepler leaking project and its names frequenly

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I believe it's possible for MS to launch the next-gen Xbox late 2026 or early 2027, while the PS6 is looking very likely a holiday 2027 launch.

I would be shocked if they don't make the Nov 15th 2026 target date

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Did Sony not learn from the "Series S is holding us back" situation?

The thing is where do they go? Most casual players (90% of their customers) would find it hard to tell Spider-Man on PS4 apart from Spider-Man 2 on PS5 outside of the jump to 60fps and that is now the base standard for PS5 games so there won't be that leap again on PS6 so you're relying on visual fidelity alone to sell your system. In leaked documents Insomniac doubled the budget along with hardware 6x the power of PS4 for Spider-Man 2 and they were contemplating "do we see this increase on screen?"

I think it's going to be very difficult to sell a console based on a visual leap again for anyone Sony included.

 

[Loxus]

It wasn't just a "could be"; he was going to say that all the signs pointed to PS6, and even that "Magnus" oozed inspiration from M. Cerny throughout. He didn't even mention the possibility that it was linked to Xbox.

It still feels like he may have the codename Magnus mixed up imo.

Magnus, Orion and Canis all seems to me like codenames for the same family of chips.

E.g. the Megnus chip is for Microsoft but the codename is for Sony.

It's not like he didn't mixup the codenames already either.

 

[Fafalada]

A portable system can still include the option to output to a TV.

The thing here is - PSP originally had TV out right until it was killed a few months before launch. And then added back in the 2nd revision, kept throughout PSP lifetime (with support for PS3 controllers), and then killed again with Vita.
It's one of those things where Sony has shown a remarkable foresight (they had the hw ready in 2004) and remarkable lack of strategic thinking (pingponging on the decision and accessories involved).

I still maintain that the second SKU should be a full on hybrid - ie. handheld yes, but natively desktop like the Switch as well.
The downside is that wouldn't really be cheaper than the 'main' power hungry SKU, and knowing how Sony thinks they'd be paranoid of competing with their own SKU instead of focusing on giving people options (Something even Nintendo understands now - of all companies).
The upside they could offer a premium hybrid console and the high-end experience for the 5 people that buy X090 GPUs every 2 years.

 

[Jacobson]

so they're splitting off into home+handheld again? will these 2 share the same library?

 

[LordOcidax]

Not gonna happen. Sony loves eve candy and it would be too weak, even docked.

With first party Sony titles coming to PC thats not a problem anymore… Hybrid + PC is the perfect combination.

 

[nial]

Realistically would a PS6 portable be able to hit 1080p 60fps with first party titles and have decent battery life?

With PSSR, I don't think they're targeting native 1080p.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

An crippled troglodyte-PS6 variant could potentially be great news for PC gamers, as devs will probably put some more effort into optimizing their games.

 

[VolticArchangel]

I believe it's possible for MS to launch the next-gen Xbox late 2026 or early 2027, while the PS6 is looking very likely a holiday 2027 launch.

Nice.

Also, did you hear anything about a custom SoC for Valve (or multiple SoC's this time, successors of Aerith/Van Gogh), for a potential Steam Deck 2 and a Steam Machine Home Console?

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I still maintain that the second SKU should be a full on hybrid - ie. handheld yes, but natively desktop like the Switch as well.
The downside is that wouldn't really be cheaper than the 'main' power hungry SKU, and knowing how Sony thinks they'd be paranoid of competing with their own SKU instead of focusing on giving people options (Something even Nintendo understands now - of all companies).
The upside they could offer a premium hybrid console and the high-end experience for the 5 people that buy X090 GPUs every 2 years.

There's no such thing as a 'hybrid' that's just a buzzword coined by marketers.
It's either a handheld device that connects to the TV, as has been the case since the 1990s. Or it's two separate devices, like the Series X and Series S.

premium hybrid = premium handheld .

If Sony has the money, then the option of making two systems is a better option than making a handheld that plugs into a TV.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Yet people will bitch about how the series s held gaming back. Handheld will hold it back worse.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[Fafalada]

There's no such thing as a 'hybrid' that's just a buzzword coined by marketers.

Naming aside - Switch does the thing that most handheld devices (of any kind, including everything non-gaming) don't.
When it docks, it adapts to the larger display seamlessly.

I can sort of emulate that with a Windows device but it's clunky (even on fastest hardware switching is like reloading most of your software slow), a lot of applications simply crash when attempting it(and there's also much worse - like those that lock-up, sometimes badly enough you can't terminate them without rebooting the OS), making the usecase a lot more limited. And I would draw the line there between 'hybrid' and 'portable with display out'.

If Sony has the money, then the option of making two systems is a better option than making a handheld that plugs into a TV.

It comes down to the question of what markets want (and handhelds having display out is pretty standard nowadays, even for phones).
Obviously Portal does fine with being a pure handheld, so there's a market there, and you might be right.

 

[clintar]

Man, if Sony can pull off a steam deck mode for this portable...

 

[The_hunter]

Glad I switched to digital games.

 

[nial]

I believe it's possible for MS to launch the next-gen Xbox late 2026 or early 2027, while the PS6 is looking very likely a holiday 2027 launch.

Is there new information, or are you still looking at hardware roadmap and historical precedent?

 

[Mahavastu]

so they're splitting off into home+handheld again? will these 2 share the same library?

We can only guess, but the main reason the Vita failed was that it had to few games, because it was too different from the PS3 and it was too difficult / expensive to support both and so game devs just did not support the Vita.
So we can guess that the Handheld can run most of the Playstation software, because not doing so would be extremely stupid.

In the latest PS5 beta firmware is something called "power safer mode", which allows game devs to strip down their games to "safe energy" (as if anyone really cares). I heard rumours last week that games optimized for this mode will run on the handheld. Take it with a large mountain of salt, but such way Sony would make sure there is a decent support with PS5 games when the handheld launches in 2-3 years.

 

[Mahavastu]

Sure but again if it doesn't have its own exclusive then why would I buy this instead of actual PS6 console?

Because it is portable.

I bought Switch not because it portable mode but rather because it had exclusive games I want to play.

it might be surprising to you, but the device can be a success even if YOU do not buy it. I assume that most gamers won't buy both, but rather either the portable or the desktop Playstation. Or one at launch, the other one years later.

When the Portal was first shown, everyone laughed and said it is a stupid and useless product. When it launched it was sold out for months, because there were enough gamers who did find a reason to buy it.
The Steamdeck is quite successful, because it can play most PC games and despite it has no exclusive that I know of. I assume the Playstation Handheld will be more successful if it could play all PS4/PS5/PS6 games compared to having a handful of exclusives but not much else to show.

 

[paolo11]

If it plays ps5 games 1080p 60fps on all titles (talking about the handheld one) offline /no streaming, count me in

 

[kevboard]

If it plays ps5 games 1080p 60fps on all titles (talking about the handheld one) offline /no streaming, count me in

not even the PS5 plays PS5 games at 1080p 60fps on all titles. how do you expect a system with less power to do it?

 

[Mahavastu]

If it plays ps5 games 1080p 60fps on all titles (talking about the handheld one) offline /no streaming, count me in

It will probably not be 1080p native, but we can assume that the handheld will have something like an improved PSSR/FSR4, so upscaling from much lower resolution will still look pretty decent on the local small screen.

 

[KeplerL2]

Nice.

Also, did you hear anything about a custom SoC for Valve (or multiple SoC's this time, successors of Aerith/Van Gogh), for a potential Steam Deck 2 and a Steam Machine Home Console?

Nothing yet

Is there new information, or are you still looking at hardware roadmap and historical precedent?

Just re-iterating on what I said before, but AFAIK there hasn't been any issue or anything to suggest a delay to 2028.

 

[paolo11]

not even the PS5 plays PS5 games at 1080p 60fps on all titles. how do you expect a system with less power to do it?

I'll be content with ff7 trilogy and ff16 to be 60fps 1080p

 

[kevboard]

I'll be content with ff7 trilogy and ff16 to be 60fps 1080p

... that probably also a no tho. as the base PS5 is already 1080p in the 60fps mode. so this would probably be below that (but with FSR4/PSSR possibly)

 

[TheGrat1]

That would means Sony back to developing for two consoles like the Vita/PSP era… Not going to happen.

They are already developing for two platforms with all of these PC ports. Most of their games will even run on a steam deck. This would be no different than porting with the deck as the target spec except it will be available at launch and with a mandatory port policy for 3rd parties it would not just be up to SIE to support it. They supported the PSP just fine and they have more studios now than they did in 2004. They would not even have to give it it's own exclusives like the PSP/Vita got.

Like I said, this is the most realistic solution for anyone who wants the PS6 to be significantly more powerful than the base PS5 and wants the handheld to have enough games to make it worth buying.

 

[Deerock71]

Doesn't seem like the PS5 is going to have that big, beautiful tail; they've got to try to push out hardware that makes the Switch 2 look like a Texas Instruments calculator. For the record, PS4 got it's tail snipped by the Switch, so it didn't have a tail, either.

 

[SABRE220]

not even the PS5 plays PS5 games at 1080p 60fps on all titles. how do you expect a system with less power to do it?

Because it will have a far better cpu ensuring much better performance in cpu limited areas and with fsr5 it will be able to deliver superior image quality even from a lower res.

 

[kevboard]

Because it will have a far better cpu ensuring much better performance in cpu limited areas and with fsr5 it will be able to deliver superior image quality even from a lower res.

...if the PS5 is below 1080p it's not the CPU that's the issue.

 

[ZehDon]

Did Sony not learn from the "Series S is holding us back" situation?

I'd argue they learned exactly the right lessons: it's possible, it sells, but it needs something more. I think it's fair to say that if Microsoft launched the Xbox Series X and S where the Series S was the same machine but in a handheld, I think they'd be in a different position than they are now. Microsoft might have been early with the Series S, but they weren't wrong. As Valve has shown with the Steam Deck, there's a market for this kind of big-power handheld. Microsoft's rather precarious position fighting off SteamOS seems to mean they can't launch their handheld - which it's the perfect time for Sony.

Working in their favour is that even a 10x improvement in next-gen power isn't going to be all that visible outside of resolution because, frankly, most developers just can't afford to use all of those bells and whistles. Games this generation are, more or less, higher resolution versions of last-gen games and developers are still being shut down because dev costs are so high when you wanna go AAA. With the PlayStation 6, I imagine the power jump isn't going to be that noticeable - even though Sony will stick a next-gen price tag on everything. Heck, for their PS5 Pro, they used PS4 games to demonstrate the difference. I imagine the PS6 is more or less a PS5 Pro 2, and shrinking it into a handheld wouldn't be as damaging to the games as we might expect.