Exactly. Poeple, that can't enjoy their games anymore because they know John Doe can play the same games now with better graphics, drive me crazy.
PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Yes. Developers would be foolish to not sell a quality game to 35+ million owners. From a developer and publisher standpoint, they'll make the base version first then optimize the PS4K version.
If anything, the PS4K will be ignored. That's another issue all-together.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Because we are at a tech wall. I do not know what knowledge you have, but I highly suggest hanging out in the tech threads on here. I learned a lot more recently, since I have been out of the PC tech game as a hardcore for a couple of years.
There is no way to have a generational leap with current tech yields/power consumption/cost, etc..
We will not see the availability of such tech for the mainstream $399 pricing until at least 2019/20 at the earliest. This is just an option to have more power, push 4K adoption which needs to happen now, NOT in 2020, help with VR, etc., for the same cost, in the same tech/ecosystem. So they are taking advantage of it.
It is optional, and will do nothing to effect current PS4 owners now. You do not want, do not upgrade. A slim was coming either way, they just decided to seize the opportunity to offer more power to help with their interest in 4K adoption and continue to give this gen legs until the next development breakthrough on how games are made, like ray tracing, etc., has the Tflops (10+) to mature. (Thanks Jeff_Rigby)
Big fan of Greg and Colin, but I can't help but be a little irked by the way Greg is handling the NEO news. I remember a couple of weeks/months back Greg and Colin called one of their old co-workers who had moved over to PC gaming. Greg (most likely joking) shat on the PC and talked about how it's constantly needing to be upgraded. The co-worker brought many good points together and shat on consoles in return. Good dialogue between the three for sure.
Now that NEO has been announced, however, I haven't heard Greg's take on his typical response to PC gaming, which goes something like, "Well that's why consoles are awesome, cause you just plug and play and don't worry about upgrading stuff every couple of years." Maybe he has mentioned it and I just haven't listened well enough, but I feel like it hasn't really been discussed. Or maybe I should just expect him to not use that reason as a pro for console gaming from now on. Overall, great episode. Really loved both their takes on NEO.
Now that NEO has been announced, however, I haven't heard Greg's take on his typical response to PC gaming, which goes something like, "Well that's why consoles are awesome, cause you just plug and play and don't worry about upgrading stuff every couple of years." Maybe he has mentioned it and I just haven't listened well enough, but I feel like it hasn't really been discussed. Or maybe I should just expect him to not use that reason as a pro for console gaming from now on. Overall, great episode. Really loved both their takes on NEO.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
How does the bolded change exactly?
ChaosZeroX
Banned
I 100% agree with you, but honestly will people even buy the NEO? I personally doubt it. If no one buys it, then devs will stop supporting it. Yeah there will be those people that buy it Day 1, but do we really think people will buy this souped up PS4 over time when there is a cheaper version available? Mom and Dad surely won't and the casual gamers out there won't either which make up a huge percentage of gamers. WE are a small minority on the internet.
Time has already shown that Sony won't support a product either if it doesn't sell. (My poor Vita)
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
As a Battlefront player how would you feel if Battlefront II came out in two years where the base version was at 900p and an unstable 60fps while the NEO version was 1080p, a solid 60fps, has higher resolution textures, and an overall clearer image quality? Players playing the NEO version would have an advantage over you that no amount of player skill could gap. Higher resolution and clearer IQ makes objects and players more easily identifiable at a distance. The Pulse Canon is annoying now, imagine being hit clear across the map where the other player isn't even rendered yet to you. The player with a better framerate will have a better reaction time and less input lag.
So either we will have devs intentionally gimping both versions to maintain parity and fairness online or we will get situations where if you've paid for a NEO you'll have a better experience and and advantage over base players.
I don't know about you, but that's not why I play multiplayer games on consoles instead of PCs.
And to everyone, according to the leaks devs will be forced to support the NEO.
GreyOcelot
Member
greg has discussed the pc stuff many times, his rationale still holds up perfectly fine. he doesn't like dealing with drivers, software issues, upgrading hardware (as in physically removing a graphics card and replacing it), etc. Neo has none that, it's presumably still as plug-and-play as any console before it. him being willing to buy an upgraded ps4 =/= hypocrite about pc gaming.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Well, you still just plug it in, and you do not 'have' to upgrade. It is not like software is pushing the envelope like on the PC, forcing you to. It will still be PS4 based software, developed with over 50 million PS4's out there in mind.
I also think they are doing a Red vs. Blue scenario. Makes for more interesting dialogue.
I guess because you'd be upgrading your console every couple of years instead of a GPU/Ram like a typical PC. That's just how I saw it, probably didn't explain it properly.
Oh don't get me wrong, I didn't say he was a hypocrite. I just thought it was eerily close to upgrading a PC by constantly having to buy a console every couple of years. I don't think my wording in the original post was very good, just a little confused by it all.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I would feel that is the fault of the developer, and not the fault of the console or consumers who purchase that.
These scenarios you describe are what exactly happens on the PC. None of us are pro-gamers competing (which will use level playing field for tech anyhow), so the negligible things we would consider advantages or not, do not have as much weight to garner the fear that is going on.
What about people who have better TV's/Monitors with larger screens that you? Lower input lag than you? Better internet than you? Elite controllers, Razor Mice, etc., than you?
Where does the line get drawn in the sand?
I see pros and cons on both sides, I do not think the cons outweigh the pros so far however, until such feared cons do happen. And if the scenario you described does happen, then we can vote with our wallets, let our voices be heard, and show pubs/devs that we will not accept that.
Yep. Your average person would buy it up, as they do any other tech upgrade. And if they do not. No worries, Sony still has a PS4 that will still be selling.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Which is why the outrage will most likely be irrelevant once this comes about.
But what if this is an apple-like update and the old PS4 is discontinued? The new PS4's changes add nothing to the cost. Sony would need to develop a cheaper version of the PS4 in parallel or they end up with to consoles that cost more or less the same to produce.
recklesscognition
Member
Vast majority of customers go to a store and buy the best console they can afford. They're not scheming to have an advantage over someone using an OG playing Battlefront lol.
One thing that I find frustration with the whole 'you don't have to buy it'-argument is the fact that there was no heads-up or any indication that this will happen.
I play primarily on PC, so regular hardware upgrades are not something I'm totally opposed to. But when buying a PC I know what to expect and how the market works.
I bought my PS4 close to launch. Since it's only a secondary device for me I haven't gotten much use out if it so far.
If I had know beforehand that there will be a better model a few years later I would have waited. For me this would have been the better choice. But this was not a decision I could make because the PS4 was sold like past generations and as a consumer you could expect maybe a slim model later on or a price cut but in regards to performance you couldn't expect any disadvantage for buying early. I don't mind not having a slim but if I had known about the PS4k I wouldn't have bought a launch PS4 and rather waited to play the few games I have so far.
And now Sony is suddenly changing how console cycles work in the middle of the generation.
If Sony had announced the PS4 and at the same time explained that they plan to change this console generation to be more like phones or PCs the situation would have been completely different. Whether or not this is a good development is another story but at least consumers would have been properly informed about what to expect.
This is why I don't think the comparisons to phones and PCs work right now.
I guess, this is a lesson learned for me. I enjoyed Colin's rant.
I play primarily on PC, so regular hardware upgrades are not something I'm totally opposed to. But when buying a PC I know what to expect and how the market works.
I bought my PS4 close to launch. Since it's only a secondary device for me I haven't gotten much use out if it so far.
If I had know beforehand that there will be a better model a few years later I would have waited. For me this would have been the better choice. But this was not a decision I could make because the PS4 was sold like past generations and as a consumer you could expect maybe a slim model later on or a price cut but in regards to performance you couldn't expect any disadvantage for buying early. I don't mind not having a slim but if I had known about the PS4k I wouldn't have bought a launch PS4 and rather waited to play the few games I have so far.
And now Sony is suddenly changing how console cycles work in the middle of the generation.
If Sony had announced the PS4 and at the same time explained that they plan to change this console generation to be more like phones or PCs the situation would have been completely different. Whether or not this is a good development is another story but at least consumers would have been properly informed about what to expect.
This is why I don't think the comparisons to phones and PCs work right now.
I guess, this is a lesson learned for me. I enjoyed Colin's rant.
DriftingSpirit
Member
What if it isn't discontinued?
Not only technically more likely, but also better to avoid confusion.
The current gaf-threads speak volumes to that and the perceived value of an old PS4.
Aaaaand, you just answered you're own question of why they don't announce it ahead of time. That's like Apple unveiling the iPhone 6, and at the end of the presentation going "but, you know, the iPhone 7 is coming next year, so keep that in mind"
Trojan
Member
Came to post this exactly. Colin sounded so whiny. His take was fine but he came off like a disgruntled fanboy. So hyperbolic.
Apple doesn't discontinue old phones until they're 4 gens old.
How was he being a shill? Collin was completely irrational in that episode and Greg made much more sense.
Trojan
Member
Why would it hurt PSVR sales? Why would you care if it hurts PSVR sales?
I want psvr to be successful so we get more content for it and not have a vita situation.
They are releasing two products around the same time and people don't have unlimited money. Some people who might buy psvr will now buy ps4k instead.
CosmicQueso
Member
Sounds scientific. I believe.
I don't understand what you mean.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Some will buy one. Some will buy the other. Some will buy neither. PSVR will sell out. The idea that the ps4k will hurt it makes sense, but it actually might draw extra attention to the peripheral
I don't know right now it seems to be drawing out the attention from psvr.
CosmicQueso
Member
If only there was some time between now and PSVR launch where marketing and sales activities could ramp up.
Or maybe some major event, where Sony could get on a stage or have a conference or something to talk about their stuff coming out.
Or, go with me here, if only there was time for retailers to ramp up and get ready to push stuff.
Oh well, with 6 months to launch for PSVR, there's really no way any kind of momentum can be generated. You're right, this Neo thing has really made PSVR DOA.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Once the PS4.5 gets released, playing games on PS4 will be like playing the early gen games that were cross-gen like AC IV and countless others. The current PS4 will basically turn into PS3 in this regard as the upgraded specs of the PS4.5 will make the games look and run better. Kind of how a few years ago, majority would rather play the game on PS4 instead of PS3.
PS4.5 will be basically making games cross-gen in the same generation. Lower specs on the current PS4 (PS3) and higher specs on the PS4.5 (PS4).
Cell phones have done this since the beginning and it's not just the fact that releasing a new console upgrade mid-gen will be a first ever but also the simple fact that Sony obviously knew that they were going to do this all along but yet, never told their consumers and fans that yeah, buy PS4 now at launch but in three years, it will be the lesser version when we release PS4.5.
Obviously, Sony would never do that because it would never have sold 40m consoles if they did announce and let people know that. Same thing now, PS4.5 appears to be legit and just waiting for Sony to announce and show it off.
My guess is that Sony will wait until the last possible minute to talk about it and show it off so they don't kill the current PS4's sales in the next eight months. With Horizon most likely a 2017 title as well as God of War 4, Sony will probably wait until PSX in December to show it off with the console being released next February.
This way, they avoid losing sales for the rest of 2016 as well as the holiday season and can still go along with their plan.
In the end, it's a simple "fuck you" to every PS4 owner period. Anyone who doesn't see that obviously just likes being screwed over again and again. If anyone thinks that Sony is doing this "for the players" is beyond ignorant. Sony doesn't give a shit about anyone who buys a PS4. They're the same as all the rest.
The biggest mystery is why Sony would even think about taking a chance of screwing up everything that they have built over the last three years including being on pace to surpass PS2 is beyond me. Seriously, Sony is murdering the competition. Why even bother with PS4.5?
Hell, if it was me, I wouldn't release PS5 until 2020 and PS4.5 wouldn't even gotten past the board room. No reason for either. Uncharted 4 looks fucking amazing two and half years in so imagine what games will look like in four and five years on the current PS4?
None of it makes any sense and as someone who was 50/50 three years ago and went with PS4 first only because Microsoft made the decision for me, I can easily see the same thing happening yet again with Sony now making the decision for me.
But whatever, if Sony releases PS4.5, I honestly hope it all blows up in their face because they don't deserve for it not to.
PS4.5 will be basically making games cross-gen in the same generation. Lower specs on the current PS4 (PS3) and higher specs on the PS4.5 (PS4).
Cell phones have done this since the beginning and it's not just the fact that releasing a new console upgrade mid-gen will be a first ever but also the simple fact that Sony obviously knew that they were going to do this all along but yet, never told their consumers and fans that yeah, buy PS4 now at launch but in three years, it will be the lesser version when we release PS4.5.
Obviously, Sony would never do that because it would never have sold 40m consoles if they did announce and let people know that. Same thing now, PS4.5 appears to be legit and just waiting for Sony to announce and show it off.
My guess is that Sony will wait until the last possible minute to talk about it and show it off so they don't kill the current PS4's sales in the next eight months. With Horizon most likely a 2017 title as well as God of War 4, Sony will probably wait until PSX in December to show it off with the console being released next February.
This way, they avoid losing sales for the rest of 2016 as well as the holiday season and can still go along with their plan.
In the end, it's a simple "fuck you" to every PS4 owner period. Anyone who doesn't see that obviously just likes being screwed over again and again. If anyone thinks that Sony is doing this "for the players" is beyond ignorant. Sony doesn't give a shit about anyone who buys a PS4. They're the same as all the rest.
The biggest mystery is why Sony would even think about taking a chance of screwing up everything that they have built over the last three years including being on pace to surpass PS2 is beyond me. Seriously, Sony is murdering the competition. Why even bother with PS4.5?
Hell, if it was me, I wouldn't release PS5 until 2020 and PS4.5 wouldn't even gotten past the board room. No reason for either. Uncharted 4 looks fucking amazing two and half years in so imagine what games will look like in four and five years on the current PS4?
None of it makes any sense and as someone who was 50/50 three years ago and went with PS4 first only because Microsoft made the decision for me, I can easily see the same thing happening yet again with Sony now making the decision for me.
But whatever, if Sony releases PS4.5, I honestly hope it all blows up in their face because they don't deserve for it not to.
Lol I didn't say it's doa. But let say next year when both are out. Are you telling me that ps4k will not generate some attention or some marketing that could be served to sell psvr.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Man It really feels like Colin is more worried about Sony making a mistake and looking bad then the actual hardware changes.
I get his complaints but I want a better PS4 so fuck it.
I also think Sony is scared of the NX coming out and being THE best place to play 3rd party games hardware wise.
I get his complaints but I want a better PS4 so fuck it.
I also think Sony is scared of the NX coming out and being THE best place to play 3rd party games hardware wise.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I know that I'll only be getting the PS4K or the PSVR this generation, not both.
Yeah me too. I didn't think that people would disagree that this would hurt the sale of psvr.
Its Quite Toasty
Banned
One thing I don't understand is that Colin always touted the vote with your wallet mantra but if what I heard is to be believed he's going to end up getting the Neo. If he hates it in theory so much why say you're going to get it? The job may entail getting one but still it seems he's going against what he's told others to do for so long.
That's true on GAF where we pay attention to every detail of gaming. Most people will see PS4k as a novelty, while VR will continue to hold the mainstream attention as a futuristic device.
CosmicQueso
Member
How many are pre-ordered? How many are being manufactured? How many adopters are they planning for? What could the Neo do to make the PSVR experience better? Will there be bundles? What price is the Neo? What else is included in the Neo? What kind of customer crossover exists between the Neo and PSVR?
You need to know the answers to these kinds of questions first. We don't know any of this.
Hmm good point.
It's all speculation like the entire ps4 neo topic is. Every conversation about this topic is speculation no one knows the future. I basicly speculate that ps4 neo will hurt psvr sales.
ST2K
Member
As Colin said, I don't think anyone is scared of Nintendo. They have a LOT to prove before they even enter Sony's mind space.
Just depends on your outlook about VR. I'm all in for PS VR, have a pre-order laid out already for the headset-only SKU, since I've got all the other stuff anyway. But I was very aware that compared to Oculus and Vive, PS VR would always be a "mid-range" or even "entry level" VR unit compared to the power of those other two headsets, and that was entirely because of the box it was connected to, namely the PS4.
I think Neo mode for PS VR is going to be a significant performance boost. Enough that it'll probably be preferable to play VR games in Neo mode rather than with a base model. I know the frame rate will remain high, since that's a mandate of good VR, but VR is incredibly demanding, and it wouldn't surprise me if PS VR Neo becomes the preferred way to play when it comes to console VR.
I'm going to take a wait and see approach to the new PS4. If, when it finally comes out and comparisons start flying around, I'm seeing some very sizable differences in performance for PS VR, I'll probably end up buying it and put my old PS4 in a spare room.
family_guy
Member
Sony will probably ship them one for free just for the publicity. They all got PS4s for free when it launched, although that was under IGN. He'll probably change his tune then.
I'm glad Greg decided to take a neutral stance on this. He isn't over the moon about the idea, but also isn't willing to write it off. I feel like Colin's stance is a bit too negative considering we're assuming so much about the situation. Let's wait until they officially announce, hear their pitch about what it costs, what it can do, and what value it adds while not leaving current owners in the dust before we bring out the declarative statements.
Icyflamez96
Member
He answered this question on Colin and Greg live yesterday. Forgot what he said though. I'm probably wrong but I think he indicated that he would buy it because he wanted to have it, but he still thinks it's a bad idea to Sony's business as a whole. I almost didn't want to say that because I know I'm off. Hoping someone here who saw that episode can help me out lol.
EdReedFan20
Member
I will say, for a moment, I stopped to ponder if I'd pick up one or the other. Prior to that, nothing could sway my future purchase of PSVR. I was trying to figure which was more useful for me. An awesome VR headset experience that was something I've never seen before or having my all games look and run better, which would admittedly get more usage out of me. After seeing the specs and how the games would be handled between the two PS4s, I'm still going with PSVR. I can wait for the next PlayStation (whatever and whenever that will be). It's not like the regular PS4 games will be terrible. I just hope PSVR does not run poorly on it.
I know. I didn't really ask it as a question. Business-wise it totally makes sense to leave customers in the dark.
But the comparison with phones still doesn't work. Apple doesn't need to remind customers that after the iPhone 6 a 7 will be released. That's how the phone market works. When you buy one you know that there will constantly new models every time and you just buy one when time and price is right for you and replace it whenever you feel the improvement is big enough.
Console generations didn't work like that. Sony is just suddenly changing the rules but didn't thought it was necessary to inform early customers about that. If they had been upfront about it like for example Microsoft with their stupid DRM plans the situation would have been different. That's at least a dick move and deserves criticism.
Same. I was all for the PSVR until news of the PS4K. On that note, if all the console manufacturers start doing iterative releases, I doubt I'll remain a multiplatform gamer any more. The cost to stay at the forefront of things, coupled with the subscription fees and everything else, just doesn't seem worth it.
I'm secretly hoping Microsoft don't release an X1.5 either, and instead just go with a shorter cycle with a proper generational hardware refresh, then I'll likely switch over to their platform as my go to.