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[The Artisan]

I'll wait and see on that. I'd be surprised if Sony kill a selling point of expensive new hardware.

more powerful hardware = new hardware, don't you think? it's not the same set of hardware.

 

[GamerMax73]

I'm sure they can. There's nothing about a unified pool of HBM2 (at least as far as I can tell) that would say PS4 games are no longer compatible.

And I'm sure a mini-Zen-like CPU in 2019 could have 8+ cores and easily run the same code and emulate the same timings as a Jaguar chip.

I bet they will continue to work with AMD here. And I highly doubt AMD wants to give up these huge console contracts.

This is what the switch to x86 for PlayStation always meant, at least to me. Compatibility, and yet reliable upgrading into the future technology.
That one is the funniest one to me, because people act like PS4K is going to make PS4 disappear within a year of PS4K launch. Despite all the evidence so far to the contrary.

That being the case, what's wrong with sticking with iterative tech?

Sony, in 7 to 8 years post-PS4, would be stupid, and I mean really, really stupid, to rely on PS4 iterative tech when people will be satiating for a new generation. In a time where HBM2 will be available. When we will be post-Zen for AMD, well beyond Polaris 10 and 11. Well into a mature DX12, Vulkan, and maybe even looking at DX13 and beyond.

Why would Sony be stupid maintaining compatibility? If this works will the people really be satiating for a new generation?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

And I'd ask you to think about being a little empathetic.

Because when I bought my Ps4 I was under the impression that it would be the best playstation hardware for 5-7 years, just like the Ps3 was, just like Ps2 was, just like the Ps1 was. I thought I would buy it and enjoy what the hardware had to offer for that span of time. This isn't true anymore.What the fuck?.

I totally get your point, mate, and I am well aware that you're not the only one who's dissapointed by that move from Sony.

And I also know that you at least expected Sony to announce this move from the very beginning.

Thing is, they couldn't. Because 3 years ago, so pre-E3 2013, nobody knew how this generation would turn out (although I have no doubt that they already had this iterative model in mind when they decided to go x86).

And the only way to make sure this busines model works out is if you're the distinct market leader. As soon as Sony realized they had this generation in the bag, they started developing Neo, as they came to the conclusion that this is the way to go to utilize their current position in the market and bind all those existing customers to their PlayStation eco-system.

PS+, PS4 Neo, PSVR, the biggest games library, the best looking games beyond PC games: All those contribute to make switching your gaming platform (or choosing another one) as unattractive as possible for customers.

So, bottom line is, Sony hazarded the consequences of pissing of some PS4 customers, as they are well aware that if this new system works out, it will ensure dominating the home console gaming industry in the forseeable future.

 

[Sushen]

Those so called angry developers should come out of the rock they've been living under for years. Even yearly cycle is a norm for most electronics and we don't hear angry iOS developers complaining about Apple splitting the market by releasing a new phone every Fall.

Unless you want the game industry to reduce itself to handful of core fans, $60 price game model and 5-7 year console cycle need to go.

 

[NoctisVsStar]

I will be disappointed if the end result of this is two (or more) versions of every game. I shouldn't be faced with buying a PS4 vs. NEO version, rather just a Playstation version that happens to run better on a NEO. You know, like in the PC space.

It's the same disc, a patch is needed to take advantage of whatever perks Neo mode offers.

 

[the1npc]

This generation has been far better on framerate than last gen... it is not even a competition. The games will perform the same, even if Neo was not coming out. PC is still going to widen the gap, and multiplats develop on PC still as well as there is another little box called, Xbox One you know.

Then don't upgrade?

Maybe some comments are also not the 'rich' people, but those who do no care, because they still have a PS4 they bought, and the software discs and games coming out are still playable on it, thus they do not let it effect them.

All other 'fears' are just unfounded yet, until Sony officially releases info, however, the documents should quell most of those, but it is all coming back to personal reasons clinging onto a unproven technical ones to justify the 'ice cream' argument.



By far faster than it was with 1080p. Reason being, 1080p are now considered budget sets, and entry 4K is every bit affordable more so than 1080p was this early in it's cycle. Pretty soon they will not be making 720p anymore, and some may just drop 1080p all together as well in the next couple of years.

The choices for 1080p sets are very thin compared to their myriad of 4K choices.

it feels like a slap in the face man. When i drop $500 on a video game system it should be the best until the next gen imo. I'll wait til e3 to truly form an opinion but as of right now itt seems shitty

 

[wapplew]

Those so called angry developers should come out of the rock they've been living under for years. Even yearly cycle is a norm for most electronics and we don't hear angry iOS developers complaining about Apple splitting the market by releasing a new phone every Fall.

Unless you want the game industry to reduce itself to handful of core fans, $60 price game model and 5-7 year console cycle need to go.

Care to elaborate that?

 

[Chabbles]

But we already knew that. Why would it be a surprise when Sony specifically wants to hold back PS4K to begin with? This is only largely for resolution and performance, and graphics if devs want to take advantage of that.

They aren't trying to make a brand new console with games that PS4 cant run

Hence my comment about the PS4.5 not hitting its full potential, and threads about it being held back by the PS4. Its kind of dumb to buy a "new" system for a little boost here and there, if the devs could be arsed.

 

[family_guy]

It just seems... So silly though, like Sony couldn't bear the thought of every article telling them the PS4 was inferior to PC and that PC had the best version. That's literally all it comes down to in my opinion. Yet the PS4k is yet another middle of the road console that's going to be average graphically in another two years. If it's equivalent to a 380x, that's kind of not really that powerful anymore. 1080/60 for games right now on med/high settings. In 2 years it's going to be really behind. I'd almost rather they make this a high end option like $699 for those who really want something like this. You could have a $400-450 pascal equivalent GPU which would be around 1070/1080 in power and really stay relevant for 3-4 years.

I'm sure pushing forward 4K TV and UHD Blu-ray adoption has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Boke1879]

it feels like a slap in the face man. When i drop $500 on a video game system it should be the best until the next gen imo. I'll wait til e3 to truly form an opinion but as of right now itt seems shitty

Are you going to enjoy Uncharted 4 any less just because the Neo is out?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Doesn't make it less second class thou.
In that 3 years, Sony better have tight police on performance, because anything bad happen, the blame is on them.
That's how they lost customer's trust. 3 generations of hard earn trust will be gone. Good luck convincing them to be early adopter of your next product.

New hardware don't make them second class .
Last gen PS3 was just as powerful as 360 and we got shit ports .
Power is a factors yes but that is not whole picture.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not really. PS3 1st gen vs PS4 1st gen.
Very soon we'll have Uncharted 3 vs Uncharted 4 comparisons, which I've no doubt will also show a staggering improvement in fidelity and scope.

His point wasn't that improvements aren't being made, but that the pace of changes is slowing down. This is simply a fact. Why not give consumers an option to take advantage of these improvements immediately, rather than waiting a long time for substantial shrinks?

Process shrinks are slowing down dramatically, and that's where the real gain in power is achieved. I think it makes a lot of sense to try and align iterative hardware releases with these process shrinks.

How will more frequent console releases solve the problem of developers "throwing out code?" At some point developers will have to end support for older hardware. At some point the install base will be disrupted and have to start from ground zero again since users will no longer be able to play current games on their console. The concept of generations will still be there only now you have generations with multiple console releases which is going to be confusing as hell for consumers.

The same way it's done on mobile platforms. You have a staggered release of iterative hardware, and eventually the userbase at the older end is a very small fraction of the total active userbase and it gets phased out of support.

 

[Lady Gaia]

We have at least 1 developer (some dude from Bioware) who stated for the record he ain't happy that this is happening.

Greg Zeschuk was one of BioWare's founders, and he retired in 2012. So I'm not sure he's as engaged on the subject as you might have believed.

 

[dealer-]

it feels like a slap in the face man. When i drop $500 on a video game system it should be the best until the next gen imo. I'll wait til e3 to truly form an opinion but as of right now itt seems shitty

Your PS4 doesn't become worthless though, you can keep it and continue to play PS4 games or sell it and get a decent chunk of money to upgrade to the new model. I'm not a huge fan of this change either though tbh.

 

[GamerMax73]

It's definitely possible. I'm betting there will be a new gen, but like discussed earlier we don't know what is in store for PS5 just yet.

I'm hoping for a new gen for PS5, I think that's what most people here probably want too.

I still don't get why there has to be a difference in terms of PS5 performance whether it's iterative or a complete break new gen? Other than being a bad deal for anyone buying a PS4K/Neo in the coming 2-3 years. Unless there's an acceptable degree of overlap between Neo and PS5 (ie, pretty much iterative) you may as well forget Neo and just stick with PS4.

 

[the1npc]

Are you going to enjoy Uncharted 4 any less just because the Neo is out?

no uncharted is out before the neo. what im thinking is that horizon zero dawn or other far off games could be very noticeably worse on ps4

 

[DeepEnigma]

it feels like a slap in the face man. When i drop $500 on a video game system it should be the best until the next gen imo. I'll wait til e3 to truly form an opinion but as of right now itt seems shitty

While I do not feel that way personally, I can understand that those more invested can feel that way. At least your honest, and not beating around the bush with baseless FUD. Kudos for that!

And yes, hopefully E3 spells things out nicely. Going to be a wild ride.

 

[onQ123]

Why are people trying to act like PS4 Neo is going to be the cause of their problem on PS4?


Most games will have to run on Xbox One & PS4 just like today if they get the game running on Xbox One it's going to run better on PS4 anyway so where is the fear of PS4 Neo making PS4 games run worse coming from?

 

[Nozem]

Good post OP, thanks for posting.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

no uncharted is out before the neo. what im thinking is that horizon zero dawn or other far off games could be very noticeably worse on ps4

I would imagine ALL games will be noticeably worse on the PS4. But you're still going to get the best version the base PS4 was capable of.

I think it's pretty much a non-issue worrying about base PS4 performance. This isn't a situation like PS3 to PS4 where the architecture was so radically different that you could conceivably see developers not taking the time to utilize the SPUs to their max potential.

 

[wapplew]

New hardware don't make them second class .
Last gen PS3 was just as powerful as 360 and we got shit ports .
Power is a factors yes but that is not whole picture.

Class is a reletive term, objectively, PS4 owner playing the same game regardless of PS4K, perception wise, it become second class.
It's pretty annoying if someone say some game gonna look so good on PS4K or can't wait to see the definitive edition in action, that's when they felt second class.
Calling people envy or "ice cream" only make things worst.

Also, we got shitty frame now, regardless of PS4K. We still blame lazy dev now and then, but after PS4K, it will become the major scape goat for performance issue.
It can turn into some PR nightmare that Sony need to avoid.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Man, with all this 'first class', 'second class', I am almost waiting for Phil Spencer to chime in here... almost.

 

[nib95]

Those so called angry developers should come out of the rock they've been living under for years. Even yearly cycle is a norm for most electronics and we don't hear angry iOS developers complaining about Apple splitting the market by releasing a new phone every Fall.

Unless you want the game industry to reduce itself to handful of core fans, $60 price game model and 5-7 year console cycle need to go.

Consoles are closed platforms, stop comparing them with open platforms that don't even correlate. Mobiles aren't a comparatively niche product that are bought for the sole purpose of gaming, they are a necessity that converge multiple products together, and massively improve day to day life in all manner of ways. They are also subsidised by mobile phone contracts, which are usually renewed every year or two. If they weren't subsidised in such a way, I very much doubt most people would upgrade them so often. The comparison between consoles and mobile phones is ridiculous and completely misplaced.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Class is a reletive term, objectively, PS4 owner playing the same game regardless of PS4K, perception wise, it become second class.
It's pretty annoying if someone say some game gonna look so good on PS4K or can't wait to see the definitive edition in action, that's when they felt second class.
Calling people envy or "ice cream" only make things worst.

Also, we got shitty frame now, regardless of PS4K. We still blame lazy dev now and then, but after PS4K, it will become the major scape goat of performance issue.
It can turn into some PR nightmare that Sony need to avoid.

It won't turn into a PR nightmare for Sony .
That will be on the pub\devs just like it is now .
Not like it really matters to most people as we see with some games.

 

[Fess]

It will be even more unfriendlier with more console releases. You will still have consumers in holding patterns aiming to hit that sweet spot. You probably have people that were looking to buy a PS4 earlier this year but are now waiting for E3 for more information about the PS4K. Everytime I want to upgrade my phone I always find myself waiting for several months before I actually do it because I want the latest and greatest phone coming out. More frequent console releases will just cause more confusion about when is the right time to upgrade.

This is actually very true. And this is one area where it's somewhat okay to be an Apple customer, because then you know that you'll at least have the latest and greatest (within the ios family) and don't have to deal with the upgrade dilemma for a full year, which in that market is a long time.
Prior to this you would be in that position for at least 4-5 years in the console market. I liked that. WiiU ending it's life after 4 years is on the verge of making me angry, especially since it never got it's own Zelda or Metroid. But it is what it is and it still got a whole lot of great first party exclusives.

 

[hesido]

Those so called angry developers should come out of the rock they've been living under for years. Even yearly cycle is a norm for most electronics and we don't hear angry iOS developers complaining about Apple splitting the market by releasing a new phone every Fall.

Unless you want the game industry to reduce itself to handful of core fans, $60 price game model and 5-7 year console cycle need to go.

Luckily iterative consoles will save the consoles, just look at the damage that's done after decades of this bad 5-7 year cycle practice, only 60 million people bought the current gen consoles in about 2 years. /s

 

[Moneal]

I wanted to know what we agreed on, I this is what I suspected we did, that was my point: we don't know what they will do with PS5, despite PS4K being so iterative.

Sony, in 7 to 8 years post-PS4, would be stupid, and I mean really, really stupid, to rely on PS4 iterative tech when people will be satiating for a new generation. In a time where HBM2 will be available. When we will be post-Zen for AMD, well beyond Polaris 10 and 11. Well into a mature DX12, Vulkan, and maybe even looking at DX13 and beyond.

And I bet Sony is talking to developers right now about what they want from PS5.

Remember they were talking to developers in 2008 to see what developers didn't like of PS3, and what they wanted from PS4. 5 years in advance of PS4.

Will those things break compaibility on pc? Or will gpus an cpus out today just run games at a lesser resolution and/or fps?

 

[wapplew]

It won't turn into a PR nightmare for Sony .
That will be on the pubdevs just like it is now .
Not like it really matters to most people as we see with some games.

We have many posters here worry about PS4 getting bad performance after PS4K release, don't you think if any performance issue happen after PS4K release only solidify their concern?
It may not turn into PR nightmare, but they might regret their purchase, making them hesitate to be early adopter next time.

 

[The Artisan]

I totally get your point, mate, and I am well aware that you're not the only one who's dissapointed by that move from Sony.

And I also know that you at least expected Sony to announce this move from the very beginning.

Thing is, they couldn't. Because 3 years ago, so pre-E3 2013, nobody knew how this generation would turn out (although I have no doubt that they already had this iterative model in mind when they decided to go x86).

And the only way to make sure this busines model works out is if you're the distinct market leader. As soon as Sony realized they had this generation in the bag, they started developing Neo, as they came to the conclusion that this is the way to go to utilize their current position in the market and bind all those existing customers to their PlayStation eco-system.

PS+, PS4 Neo, PSVR, the biggest games library, the best looking games beyond PC games: All those contribute to make switching your gaming platform (or choosing another one) as unattractive as possible for customers.

So, bottom line is, Sony hazarded the consequences of pissing of some PS4 customers, as they are well aware that if this new system works out, it will ensure dominating the home console gaming industry in the forseeable future.

the thing is man, I can't even say I expected sony to at least announce this at the beginning of this gen. if we bring up other electronic device industries with iterations, the iphones never announce the + or S versions of a phone when the original launches. it just comes a year later.

I started my argument in this thread talking about sales: they already are dominating the home console gaming industry, they can easily keep doing what they are doing and all consumers and the producer (them) win. sales are soaring on both hardware and software fronts and on that basis, I don't find an industrial change to be necessary.

the "rapidly changing and improving technology" is all i am finding as an excuse to come out with more hardware more often to get more money out of the consumer.

Greg Zeschuk was one of BioWare's founders, and he retired in 2012. So I'm not sure he's as engaged on the subject as you might have believed.

that is a good point, however he's probably much more engaged, or at least knowledgable, than I can ever be because I have no idea what it is like to be a video game developer. even if he's retired, he's been doing this shit for like, what, 15 years? He retired a year before this gen started so I think his input does give some validity to the topic.

 

[nib95]

Did you actually not understand a word I wrote?

Legitimately.

You want larger jumps in games every 5-6 years?

Tell me how cross-gen games at 6 year intervals will provide those jumps when the gap in tech is much wider.

You want larger jumps? Would you rather a cross-gen game be made to squeeze on PS4 when PS5 hits or fit the game on a more powerful PS4.5 when PS5 hits?

One provides a greater benefit to both the consumer and developer, the other doesn't. You will see smaller jumps from iteration to iteration but the 6 year jump will be much greater at laucnh.

How is it possible to gloss over this? How? Right after I just talked about it?

Holy fucking shit.

I can't tell if you're intentionally being obtuse, or just can't grasp something so basic. Cross gen games, as I said multiple times, are not a permanent thing. They only happen for a year or so during the transition between two generations. There's no point you asking me if I prefer cross gen games be made to squeeze between a PS5 and PS4, or PS5 and PS4K, that is completely besides the point, and in a typical new generation introduction, would only happen with early life cycle multiplatform titles either way. Second, third and late cycle games tend not to be as commonly held back by any older hardware at all. In other words, cross gen games get replaced by next gen only games.

In my posts above, I was not talking about a temporary period of cross gen titles, but a permanent state of it. The PS4K is permanently tied to, or held back by the PS4, and my point is that I would under no circumstances support a PS5 next gen system that was permanently held back by, or tied down to the PS4K.

So to answer your question, I'd prefer that PS5 games (or any next gen systems games) were not permanently tied down to any older platforms. If they were, it would stifle technological, graphical and design ambition and progress.

 

[DeepEnigma]

that is a good point, however he's probably much more engaged than I can ever be because I have no idea what it is like to be a video game developer. even if he's retired, he's been doing this shit for like, what, 15 years? He retired a year before this gen started so I think his input does give some validity to the topic.

And there are current multiplatform devs chiming in with this being overblown on Gaf, and a positive for them... but why overlook them? Do they not fit within your current 'fears', so you cling to like this developer below described?

Multiple devs have spoken here on GAF about this, myself included. Most of the negativity is unfounded. A few valid concerns but those can easily be quelled when a valid roadmap is released if it is real and officially announced. Things can go south but I've picked apart the rumors we know with other devs about implementation and moving forward and we are pretty satisfied.

You will find most who don't listen to dev input will only listen to others for self-validation regardless of the few devs here who have spoken.

If we aren't sweating it yet, consumers shouldn't either. It's our livelihoods on the line if consoles tank due to bad decisions. I'm hopeful for the future of consoles and gaming. And I'm one pessimistic motherfucker.

 

[The Artisan]

And there are current multiplatform devs chiming in with this being overblown on Gaf, and a positive for them... but why overlook them? Do they not fit within your current 'fears', so you cling to like this developer below described?

Hey I didn't say ALL devs were thinking or saying the same thing. As far as I can tell their reactions are mixed, just like the public's. This part you bolded,

You will find most who don't listen to dev input will only listen to others for self-validation regardless of the few devs here who have spoken.

can go both ways.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Seems like another means to try to hide stagnation in game design and innovation with technological advancement.

Budgets already can't keep up with the capabilities of ps4/xb1 why do developers feel like they need a slightly more powerful system?

It seems like a bad move and I think the differences in multiplatform games will be very minimal.

The snes/Genesis, and PS1 showed how strong a $150 or $99 price point could be. Sony should be shooting for hitting that price point even without a blu Ray drive or with a smaller hard drive.

 

[potatohead]

That being the case, what's wrong with sticking with iterative tech?



Why would Sony be stupid maintaining compatibility? If this works will the people really be satiating for a new generation?

There's nothing "wrong" with sticking with iterative tech. What definition would we have of iterative tech. You have to specify really.

In almost all ways, PS5 will be "iterative" of PS4 and PS4K technology, no matter what happens almost. They aren't going to drop x86. They are more than likely going to stick with AMD and APU technology too.

But that doesn't mean it will be iterative in the same way as PS4K is upon PS5. It could be, but it doesn't have to be. There are many ways to build PS5 upon PS4/PS4K.

Even if the PS5 is 15x more powerful than PS4 OG, and it still uses x86, and PC-like components, it's still going to be iterative. But that doesn't mean there will 100% be forward compatibility from PS4/PS4K.

Forward compatibility would hold back the PS5 from being a truly new generation. At some point people will want to be guaranteed a completely new experience. That's probably not at 3 years, but in 6 or 7 years it might be that time.

Consider only that there are many ways to do similar, but not the same things, and even more ways to do completely different things.

Also consider that 3 to 4 years is a long time, and many things can happen between now and then. Also that 4K has already launched and isn't waiting for Sony or PlayStation's response in 4 years.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hey I didn't say ALL devs were thinking or saying the same thing. As far as I can tell their reactions are mixed, just like the public's. This part you bolded,

can go both ways.

Of course it can, but personal reasons are not relevant to the technical ones. And there are plenty of those who are trying to mask their personal, behind unproven technical FUD.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

We have many posters here worry about PS4 getting bad performance after PS4K release, don't you think if any performance issue happen after PS4K release only solidify their concern?
It may not turn into PR nightmare, but they might regret their purchase, making them hesitate to be early adopter next time.

For some people they already make up there minds .
We already getting games like that , as time goes on that was going to happen anyway.
Devs are not going to mess up the bigger userbase and even if they did it would take a while .

 

[Moneal]

Luckily iterative consoles will save the consoles, just look at the damage that's done after decades of this bad 5-7 year cycle practice, only 60 million people bought the current gen consoles in about 2 years. /s

Will this gen sell more than the last? Or even the gen before that? Gen 6 sold right around 200 million. Gen 7 sold about 265 million. This gen we are at about 75 million. Wii u will be lucky to hit 25 million, xbox one 40 or 50 million. Thats 75 million. For this gen to sell more than last gen ps4 would have to do 185 million or more, thats 30 million more than ps2. To top gen 6 it would still have to sell 125 million or just under ps2. Its not tracking to do better than ps2, so topping gen 7 is going to be about impossible. It has to keep its current pace just to top gen6.

 

[The Artisan]

Of course it can, but personal reasons are not relevant to the technical ones. And there are plenty of those who are trying to mask their personal, behind unproven technical FUD.

I think personal reasons are still relevant. After all it is how each and every one of us personally feels about all this that will determine how we will speak with our wallets, right? That's what will show how welcome and warmly received this change to the industry is.

 

[Trago]

What's the point of waiting for a 'PS5' when it would totally be a PS4 with a spec upgrade? With x86, I certainly hope Sony aren't dumb enough to do a hard reset on the foundation that they're currently building with the PS4.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think personal reasons are still relevant. After all it is how each and every one of us personally feels about all this that will determine how we will speak with our wallets, right? That's what shows how welcome and warmly received this change to the industry is.

Again, I will repeat myself.

Personal reasons are not relevant to technical ones (because they are being lead by bias, not facts). They are relevant to you and how you feel, but spreading FUD and technical fears that are unproven/disproven in the released documents, etc., are just being disingenuous.

Just come the fuck out and say why you feel that way (feeling 'second class' like some started)... do not hide behind baseless info and create some paradigm that has not/yet to exist. (not saying you, just a lot on the internet in general)

 

[7DollarHagane]

Will this gen sell more than the last? Or even the gen before that? Gen 6 sold right around 200 million. Gen 7 sold about 265 million. This gen we are at about 75 million. Wii u will be lucky to hit 25 million, xbox one 40 or 50 million. Thats 75 million. For this gen to sell more than last gen ps4 would have to do 185 million or more, thats 30 million more than ps2. To top gen 6 it would still have to sell 125 million or just under ps2. Its not tracking to do better than ps2, so topping gen 7 is going to be about impossible. It has to keep its current pace just to top gen6.

As most people would point out the wii created an unusually high sales figure for last gen. If we even come close to matching sales from last gen with Nintendo basically contributing nothing to that number, this generation should be considered wildly successful for Sony and Microsoft.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What's the point of waiting for a 'PS5' when it would totally be a PS4 with a spec upgrade? With x86, I certainly hope Sony aren't dumb enough to do a hard reset on the foundation that they're currently building with the PS4.

I doubt it. That is the point of the x86/64 shift. Next step would be Zen/Polaris/HBM2 when it is cost effective for a $399 box. Which will probably not be ready for that until 2019/20. Hence the 4K step that is needed now to assist that adoption.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

As most people would point out the wii created an unusually high sales figure for last gen. If we even come close to matching sales from last gen with Nintendo basically contributing nothing to that number, this generation should be considered wildly successful for Sony and Microsoft.

This gen will not be wildly successful for MS (they not going to sell as much as last gen)
If anything there success might come from branching out into the PC space better .

 

[Moneal]

As most people would point out the wii created an unusually high sales figure for last gen. If we even come close to matching sales from last gen with Nintendo basically contributing nothing to that number, this generation should be considered wildly successful for Sony and Microsoft.

I just showed that ps4 still has to sell 125 or more just to hit gen 6 numbers. Even at the pace its doing few believe it will do that without aggressive price drops.

 

[wapplew]

For some people they already make up there minds .
We already getting game like that , as time goes on that was going to happen anyway.
Devs are not going to mess up the bigger userbase and even if they did it would take a while .

Totally agree on the last part.
Again, PS4 performance issue is not my concern since I getting PS4K, I just trying say those mindset or feeling are very real, dismissing them would be stupid thing to do.
In fact, all the no exclusive stuff show Sony acknowledge the importance to keep early adopter happy.
We all know it's impossible for Sony to please everyone, maybe set minimum frame rate requirement, the best Sony can do is minimize the damage.

On the other hand, that fucking forward competible better not apply on PS5.

 

[Trago]

I doubt it. That is the point of the x86/64 shift. Next step would be Zen/Polaris/HBM2 when it is cost effective for a $399 box. Which will probably not be ready for that until 2019/20. Hence the 4K step that is needed now to assist that adoption.

But on the same OS/interface as PS4. All those updates shouldn't go to waste.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But on the same OS/interface as PS4. All those updates shouldn't go to waste.

Yep. And I believe it will be. They want a large ecosystem not unlike Android/Apple.

They are sticking with OpenBSD since the PS3... it is just the architecture was different. PS4 uses OpenBSD as well, and with the PS5, sticking with x86/64 will carry on the OS/SDK platform.

 

[Lingitiz]

it feels like a slap in the face man. When i drop $500 on a video game system it should be the best until the next gen imo. I'll wait til e3 to truly form an opinion but as of right now itt seems shitty

Curious if people felt this way about the 360 slim or any of the other last generation system revisions that were superior in a number of much smaller ways. The first 360 revision in particular was a huge upgrade because of the improved build quality and the switch in proprietary hard drives.

 

[QaaQer]

Consoles are closed platforms, stop comparing them with open platforms that don't even correlate. Mobiles aren't a comparatively niche product that are bought for the sole purpose of gaming, they are a necessity that converge multiple products together, and massively improve day to day life in all manner of ways. They are also subsidised by mobile phone contracts, which are usually renewed every year or two. If they weren't subsidised in such a way, I very much doubt most people would upgrade them so often. The comparison between consoles and mobile phones is ridiculous and completely misplaced.

While mobile isnt a 1:1 analog, it would be silly to ignore it in this conversation. For example, why do people now expect an account system that follows them and not the device? Mobile. What did Iwata reference wrt nx development? Mobile.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

While mobile isnt a 1:1 analog, it would be silly to ignore it in this conversation. For example, why do people now expect an account system that follows them and not the device? Mobile. What did Iwata reference wrt nx development? Mobile.

Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 had account systems at least two years before the iPhone's App store economy. Not to mention Steam.