Support NeoGAF

[Dark Cloud]

Every religion and every culture has bad people man. Everyone grows up differently with different ideologies. Lots of events can shape a person to who they are in life.

Everyday there's a Christian person who is killing someone. There's a Christian black or Spanish person killing someone. There's a Muslim white or black or brown person killing someone. There's non religious people of all color in this country killing someone all the time.

You can't control how people will turn out. That's why I say there needs to be law changes so if you're on a "terrorist list" or "mental problems" list or any list with violent past then you should never be able own any gun.

 

[Vire]

wait.. what?

There is nothing inherently violent because... most muslims ignore those verses?

What a ridiculous post.

Again, I don't see why some people go out of their way to openly and actively defend these hateful religions. I don't give a shit if you are a terrorist or not, the Quran is chockfull of hateful and hurtful bullshit.

If you have a problem with me mocking your hateful religion, then I'm sorry for that.

 

[LNBL]

I don't know about you, but my parents told me a lot of things, and heard them talk about a lot of things growing up.

The hell does that even mean?

According to these statistics, the country of my parents is also in high 90%. My parents teached me to be respectfull towards everyone. So no, stop this bullshit. You don't know anything about these people and are just simply saying stuff that is based on nothing.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Mass shootings in America only have one thing in common.

Guns.

This. I don't know why we're still stuck on this "religion of love lol" bs when we literally had a shooting yesterday done by a white guy who didn't seem to partake in any specific religious ideology.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It seems like it would take forever to shoot that many people. Were the police standing outside listening to gunshots, or did it take so long to respond that the worst was already over? Or am I wrong and it really did only take him a few minutes to do it after holding them for hours? I can't even understand how it was possible for 1 guy to have free reign for 3 hours and end up killing or injuring 100 people. It just doesn't seem possible to me.

he was shooting people for 3 hours. so...

 

[Meowster]

When will people stop terrorizing us? What have we ever done? All we want to do is love someone.

 

[bigboss370]

Sad to say, I'm starting to "hate" too.

Hate Christians, hate Muslims, hate homophobes, hate racists, hate anyone whose belief in dumb fairy tales, stupid ideologies and imaginary beings causes them to be a threat to other human beings. And I do mean hate. I can no longer imagine empathy for their dead bodies whether man woman or child. That is hate.

I'm tired of their dangerous delusions and I'm ashamed to have been raised in a "book" religion myself before coming to my senses. All of the architects of the homophobic order are responsible for this, not just the foot soldiers. Fuck guns. It's the people and the society. Nobody praises the pen for Shakespeare's Macbeth or the chisel for Michelangelo's David. Blaming the gun is a copout.

I'm not trying to troll, and I suppose I will calm down a little but I'm more angry than sad to have awoken to this. My mind's eye is conjuring up cheerful images of a razed church or mosque. I tell it not to be silly, but it is a seductive image. How many are as mad as I am but will not be able to restrain themselves? Rights have always been ransomed with blood.

R.I.P

gross

 

[Lead]

"Mexicans don't like Trump so Americans of Mexican descent cannot be partial to Trump."


It's something a white supremacist would bring up.

Yes, the world is entirely black and white, there's no shades of grey anywhere.

I must be a white supremacist that hate muslams because I said something critical.

Great logic.

The hell does that even mean?

According to these statistics, the country of my parents is also in high 90%. My parents teached me to be respectfull towards everyone. So no, stop this bullshit. You don't know anything about these people and are just simply saying stuff that is based on nothing.

Good for you, this is all just speculation at this point, it's why I said it was likely, not certain.

Are you just opposed to forming opinions based on empirical evidence?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Lot of people in here are against due process. Crazy.

I'm for due process, I'm just wanting minimal gun control regulations.

"Since January 1"

With that many shootings, I figured it would be longer.

Fucking hell, you guys have a major gun problem.

No no, we have a major people problem! I'm doing this right?

 

[The Pope]

Got a feeling their is going to be a graveyard of grey names in this thread.Emotions are running high. I better leave. Once again RIP to the victims. Stay strong US LGBT community.

 

[The Technomancer]

"Since January 1"

With that many shootings, I figured it would be longer.

Fucking hell, you guys have a major gun problem.

This is 2015, but yes, it is a lot

 

[mreddie]

Just heard about the LA thing, sigh...

 

[Drackhorn]

When will people stop terrorizing us? What have we ever done? All we want to do is love someone.

THAT.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

No, sorry, if you're a part of a militant Islamist group, or affiliated with them in any way, you probably shouldn't own a gun.

Most Americans would agree with that.

If you are on the watchlist and try to obtain explosives what would happen? I still can't understand the opposition to doing the same for guns.

 

[Already Torn]

http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

IT'S NOT JUST GUNS.

GUNS ARE A PART OF IT. IT'S A NUANCED ISSUE.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST GAF

I don't know what you're trying to say. The best way to stop this kind of thing is to control who can get their hands on weapons. Theirs an issue of hate, but you can pass laws to make people stop hating or being ignorant. Please stop just screaming the word "nuance" and expecting it to mean something.

 

[rashbeep]

Had to do a double take on that casualty count. Holy shit

Did he even have condolences for those who died? What a piece of trash he is. I don't know how someone can vote for him.

Based on some of the responses here blaming Muslims, I am not surprised anymore that his campaign is doing well.

 

[Liamc723]

When will America learn that guns need to be banned?

 

[everyday math]

"Since January 1"

With that many shootings, I figured it would be longer.

Fucking hell, you guys have a major gun problem.

How about since Sandy Hook,

 

[hwy_61]

I don't see what gun control legislation accomplishes. Won't people who want to do bad things to other people find a way to get guns? Illegal or not?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

This thread is getting ugly.

Might be time for regulations on this damn thread, cuz a lot of shots are being fired right now

 

[BahamutPT]

Correlation does not imply causation

 

[Roarak]

Don't forget about these babies, for less than $300.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhv4hMGdQ_g

Kits like these are just internet scams. 99.9% of the time they do not work at all. And in the unlikely event it did work, the second you alter a semi auto rifle to fire full auto you are breaking just about every part of the 1986 machine gun ban. The ATF does not take that lightly at all.

 

[B-Dubs]

I don't know what you're trying to say. The best way to stop this kind of thing is to control who can get their hands on weapons. Theirs an issue of hate, but you can pass laws to make people stop hating or being ignorant. Please stop just screaming the word "nuance" and expecting it to mean something.

He's being sarcastic.

I don't see what gun control legislation accomplishes. Won't people who want to do bad things to other people find a way to get guns? Illegal or not?

Where do you think illegal guns come from? They come from the states with lax gun control laws. Tighten those laws and you just made it harder for people to get access to illegal guns. Illegal guns aren't coming from outside the country, we're supplying our own illegal guns. We're supplying Mexico's illegal guns ffs.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Oh my god. I can't believe this.

 

[Maxim726X]

Again, I don't see why some people go out of their way to openly and actively defend these hateful religions. I don't give a shit if you are a terrorist or not, the Quran is chockfull of hateful and hurtful bullshit.

If you have a problem with me mocking your hateful religion, then I'm sorry for that.

The real issue is exactly this.

If an alien life-form came to this world and read the Quaran, what would its conclusion be?

You don't really have to try very hard to see that it's brimming with hate and violence.

 

[gngf123]

This is 2015, but yes, it is a lot

Trust me to read the small text and miss the largest text in the image. Whoops.

Still, you are right. That is a very large number of data points.

 

[Chris R]

Why is San Bernardino not on that shooting map?

 

[Socreges]

This needs to be posted on every page.

Why is San Bernardino not on that shooting map?

I believe it is...?

 

[Jonm1010]

Alright, lets calm down for a moment and look at facts.

What is the majority religion in Afghanistan?
What does polls/laws tells us about support for LBGT rights in muslim countries?

Now take a deep breath again and reconsider what you just said.
I'm not calling citizenship into question, I just think it's too simple to say "he's American" as if he's completely sheltered from the ideology and beliefs of his parents.

His parents might not be muslim, they might not have anything against gays, but chances are they do have both.

Hey guys, let's calm down and substitute my speculation, unfounded assertions and hot takes for facts and pretend I'm the one being reason headed by putting only this forwars for the discussion.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

There is also a chance they didn't. This post is kind of disgusting.

He's making a statistical argument. I agree with him. I don't think the correlation is between Islam and hatred of homosexuals, I think it's between developing countries and hatred of homosexuals. That just makes a lot more sense, especially with some of the maps posted before (where Nigeria, for instance, homosexuality is illegal but less than 50% Muslim). It's probably a reasonable thing to expect that someone who has parents raised in a place like Afghanistan are likely to share their cultural values.

Not drawing any conclusions or blaming anyone here. Just saying that it's a reasonable post to make and a gentle reminder that multiculturalism is hard and will always have road bumps.

 

[jstripes]

This thread is getting ugly.

Gun Control + LGBT + Islam

Sadly, it's America's "perfect storm". Especially more so during the already heated political climate of an election year.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Anti-gun regulation arguments are all disingenuous.

Gun Control + LGBT + Islam

Sadly, it's America's "perfect storm". Especially more so during an the already heated political climate of an election year.

You're right, it is the holy trinity of discussion right now.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I don't see what gun control legislation accomplishes. Won't people who want to do bad things to other people find a way to get guns? Illegal or not?

If only some other countries around the world had enacted stringent gun control so we could contrast and compare gun crime and gun deaths.

 

[Raxus]

+1 that was brave to speak your mind, hope you don't get banned. I do agree with most of these things, however we aren't the majority though :/

Nor should you ever be. Hatred towards religions winds up getting more innocent people hurt and muslims are already the target of hate crimes. Instead of spreading hate let's focus on how we can prevent violent attacks like this in the future. I understand you are frustrated but love always wins in the end and I encourage you and everyone else to show it no matter what race, creed, or sexuality your fellow man or woman are.

 

[Ponn]

Come on GAF. No matter what Islamic scripture may say, no one is going to go and murder or beat people unless they are fucked up. It's similar to playing GTA and assuming since you kill and steal cars that you will do it in real life too. You won't if you are right in the head

Like I said earlier, we shouldn't irrationally hate or develop phobias against entire groups. At the same time don't downplay the power of religion, ANY religion, for influencing, developing and guiding people's beliefs. Alot of this shit is ingrained from a very young age into peoples psyche.

I'm really starting to get baffled by this, why is Islam getting a free pass from so many people yet its ok to go all in on Catholic and Christian hate knowing full well they are not friends of the LGBT community? Is it just because people are afraid to be labelled as muslimphobes or is it a push to keep from adding to that fire? I would argue just like with christians and catholics and any other religions trying to fight and argue 'not all of us" they need to start speaking up and very vocally denouncing this shit and their toxic beliefs instead of being tone def when this stuff happens.

 

[BarringGaffner]

Holy shit at some of the replies. People talking about razing churches. Hey remember when those 9 African Americans died at the church? Don't worry they were just Christians, that evens out the racism right?

Like what the fuck is going on? We really gonna give in to hate now? Holy shit this whole thread is a disgrace to the people who have just died.

intolerence of intolerence = hate?

There's plenty to blame here but it is honestly ridiculous to say that if he cane from a culture where LGBT were accepted, and if he was raised in a religion that had no homophobic/violent verses (which there are actually... not all religions are the same) that this would have still happened.

And yes of course, if he was in another country he probably wouldn't have got those weapons as easily and killed anywhere near as many people.

 

[Abinash117]

Alright, lets calm down for a moment and look at facts.

What is the majority religion in Afghanistan?
What does polls/laws tells us about support for LBGT rights in muslim countries?

Now take a deep breath again and reconsider what you just said.
I'm not calling citizenship into question, I just think it's too simple to say "he's American" as if he's completely sheltered from the ideology and beliefs of his parents.

His parents might not be muslim, they might not have anything against gays, but chances are they do have both.

You are being racist and prejudice. It is not fucking simple to say " he's American" . He is American a natural born one. Implying that just because he is from that country and has a particular religion makes is un-American is something a white nationalist would say. Do you think every person from Afghanistan and the ME that comes to America or is BORN here are going to act like him?

 

[JABEE]

Reposting for new page. Cause I'm a poor 50ppp user lol.

http://www.latimes.com/la-me-ln-gay-pride-la-weapons-20160612-snap-story.html

Please be safe if you're going to these events.

Fuck ideologues that spread words of hatred whether the source is a preacher or a states person. All ideas should be scrutinized and ridiculed no matter how sacred.

These are the kinds of reactions terrorists want though. They want calls for restrictions or retaliation. They want to close themselves off from the rest of the world to prey on more wayward people to join their cause.

It's all just sad and pointless. It will never end.

 

[hwy_61]

Hey guys, let's calm down and substitute my speculation, unfounded assertions and hot takes for facts and pretend I'm the one being reason headed by putting only this forwars for the discussion.

I really wish the snark would stop. It doesn't make anyone look cool.

 

[IJoel]

I'm trying to avoid even looking at news because this is so infuriating.

 

[Jombie]

I detest all messianic religion, Islam just happens to be the most violent and awful right now. The only reason some Christian wackos aren't killing gays is because they use faith as an excuse for hate and are afraid of the consequences.

 

[FZZ]

Fucking hell

Was keeping up with this last night when 25 were shot and thread wasn't even breaking a page

What a horrible tragedy, RIP to all those dead and condolences to those affected.

Yeah yeah remember college students in Santa Barbar? high schoolers at Columbin? first graders in Newtow? All muslim and gun control is not the prime reason. Please before you cherry pick copy and paste something learn more about it and see how many people living in muslim countries in peace.

His schtick is that he's an exmuslim from Pakistan. Apparently that makes him more knowledgable than the other Muslims from Pakistan who consistently debate with him. It's a constant back and forth and you're left better off talking to other critics since his point of validation relies on his ethnic and prior religious background.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Kits like these are just internet scams. 99.9% of the time they do not work at all. And in the unlikely event it did work, the second you alter a semi auto rifle to fire full auto you are breaking just about every part of the 1986 machine gun ban. The ATF does not take that lightly at all.

I'd like to think you're right, yes. But who knows how closely the sales of these kits are being tracked? After some horrible incident is too late, you know?

 

[Already Torn]

He's being sarcastic.

...Oh 😅

I don't see what gun control legislation accomplishes. Won't people who want to do bad things to other people find a way to get guns? Illegal or not?

It's a lot harder to do. I think it's pretty intuitive that these people would turn to less effective methods or do nothing at all if it wasn't so easy.

 

[Alavard]

Lot of people in here are against due process. Crazy.

That's not what's happening. I'm for due process. I'm for evidence. I'm for trials. And I believe there should be due process surrounding watchlists.

But I am for stronger gun regulations. And you have specifically said that stronger gun regulations would not have stopped this attack. Don't twist this around.

 

[old manatee]

I don't see what gun control legislation accomplishes. Won't people who want to do bad things to other people find a way to get guns? Illegal or not?

I think the idea is to try and put literally any hurdle at all in front of a homophobe who wants to murder 100 people.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I really wish Obama would say "fuck it" and go out with a bang issuing an executive order for gun control. Especially since Clinton wouldn't overturn it.

 

[Henkka]

You do realise muslims are less than 1% of the population? Why would anyone expect anything else than what this graph shows?

 

[meanspartan]

Seriously. I for one am tired of the "semantics" argument when that's all we've ever been subjected to when they ban PARTS instead of guns. I also thing we need stricter regulations -- I only own a handgun for personal defense, but I take it out twice a month to make sure I can still use it well. Most gun owners agree on most reasonable changes to gun law, but what I think the problem is, is that people get it in their heads that every part of a gun is dangerous. So now barrel shrouds, adjustable stocks, pistol grips, and suppressors are banned.

the result is that we're banning things based on how they look, not their function, which serves precisely zero purpose.

Add onto the very real and very loud "background checks == gun registry, gubment get out reeee" people, and it's even harder to get anything done. On one side, you have fear mongerers who won't ban anything, especially the things that act as safeguards, and on the other, you have people that want to ban things on how they look. And they'll use nothing but emotional arguments to make their cases, up to and including ad hominem attacks and shaming. then back on the other side, ad hominem attacks and shaming. And reasonable people on both sides of this argument kinda...discussing how we actually manage to provide the things that may fix the problem.

Totally agree.

I despise the NRA, even as an owner of an AR 15. They are scum that make us look bad.

I also despise cosmetic-based restrictions. I joke that if I put the traditional hunting rifle "Wooden" look on my AR 15, people would think it was less dangerous. Hell, even paint.

People seem to think this

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/AR15_A3_Tactical_Carbine_pic1.jpg


Is more dangerous than this

https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-conten.../06/05/423608_01_remington_ar_15_camo_640.jpg


Based on only looks.

But at the same time, we (as gun owners) need to do more to prove that we should be allowed to own such weapons. That means not freaking out whenever reasonable gun regulation proposals arise like the NRA does.

 

[And_Gignac]

You cannot prevent twisted ideology to infect the mind of impressionable people.

You can prevent those people from acquiring the means to let their destructive impulses hurt society.

This is why gun control is the topic.