Support NeoGAF

[SporeCrawler]

So Hollande believes that only an even closer EU can battle the European right wing movement. While Merkel believes the opposite to be the case, that Brexit shows this is exactly the wrong way to go and that the EU government is too powerful.

So, who's right?

Both. EU has too little power to tackle the big issues yet they have too much power without proper control by the parliament.

So the commision needs to be directly elected or elected by the parliament, while getting more power. The parliament needs far more powers to control and should become a true legislative.

Council needs to shrink into a second chamber of sorts that controls and coordinates (with veto rights)

 

[Corto]

Good post. I'm curious what your thoughts are on on the IMF's recent article on neoliberalism?

Here in Portugal several commenters used that report as support to the idea that fiscal consolidation (i.e. austerity) was the origin of all our woes, just showing that they read only synopsis of the essay.

It is surely the case that many countries (such as those
in southern Europe) have little choice but to engage in fiscal
consolidation, because markets will not allow them to
continue borrowing. But the need for consolidation in some
countries does not mean all countries—at least in this case,
caution about “one size fits all” seems completely warranted.

Countries with ample fiscal space can have the luxury to live with high debts. That luxury is prohibitive to countries in fiscal crisis.


Edit: congratulations Crab! Give it a good use now.

 

[CTLance]

Kudos for the informative post, Crab. You're well on your way to getting shunned as one of those pesky experts.

Also, Congrats.

 

[KingSnake]

EDIT: I only got the masters a few days ago guys, I just wanted to take it for a spin. My graduation ceremony is in two weeks!

Congrats!

 

[Philly40]

#peakPatriotism

That awkward moment when you realise the 85 year old dude has better dress sense than you

 

[starpiercer]

Starting to see more articles saying "Who will be the next London?". Does everyone in the world only see us as a services industry country?

 

[EdwardTeach]

Neoliberalism is the system invented American economists with the sole purpose of serving corporations and banks. It's basically corporatocracy. Many people have the illusion that the particular system has principles but it doesn't. When the ruling class is threatened for example it has no qualms with imposing heavy taxation on populations, even though the "ideology" is supposedly staunchly against that, to save their corrupt banking system like it happened in many EU countries for example in order to avoid defaulting on their debts and bringing down French and German banks.

Neoliberals are the corrupt scum serving that system or the morons who actually believe in it as an ideology. The ability of the neoliberal system to co-opt movements, parties and ideologies is also worth noting and so its ability to create distractions or divide the lower classes. And before some smartass accuses me of conspiracy theories, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy I'm saying it's a well oiled machine. The corporate media do their job misinforming, pitting us against each other and omitting information, the politicians do their job screwing the little guy to benefit corporations and banks, the bankers do their job corrupting politicians and creating a "free" market economy they fully control, the CEOs do their jobs corrupting politicians and exploiting the workforce with the help of the aforementioned politicians and so on.

You have not defined neo-liberalism. You have just dumped a bunch of stuff you don't like under it.

 

[EdwardTeach]

Great move for cooperations. Bad move for people who rely on the welfare state.

Screw them, they really shouldn't have voted for leave en masse.

 

[disco]

Starting to see more articles saying "Who will be the next London?". Does everyone in the world only see us as a services industry country?

Yes. You think we can survive on the junk off Dragon's Den?

 

[Chittagong]

Excellent summary of the last week in UK politics

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lukebailey/the-crisis-explained-maybe?utm_term=.ewrP8qDxz#.we05wQJB8

 

[shinra-bansho]

Sometimes I think there should be a ban on the use of the phrase "neoliberal" in political discussion; either that or a compulsory law that anyone using it must attach an N.B. defining it accurately.

It quite obviously refers to the corporate neoliberal fascist neoliberal neoconservative bourgeois neoliberal rich fatcat warmonger 1% tax avoiding bureaucratic technocratic neoliberal mainstream lamestream media plutocratic neoliberal oligarchy.

Duh.

 

[hodgy100]

Starting to see more articles saying "Who will be the next London?". Does everyone in the world only see us as a services industry country?

Thats kinda what we are dude Lets not beat around the bush!

 

[gerg]

What you're trying to describe (something like laissez faire fundamentalism) doesn't apply to the European Union in the slightest. The European Union has no independent ideology because all of the constituent parts of the EU (the Council, the Commission, the Parliament, etc) are all dependent on their composition from the states that comprise the EU. The EU's ideology is therefore reflective of these states. The majority of these states are not laissez faire fundamentalists; the closest European state to being as such is the United Kingdom - so you've actually removed one constraining factor on the United Kingdom being more "neoliberal". Congratulations, you ass. I hope an unrestrained Theresa May is just what you wanted.

As far as I was aware, the European Union does now have the promotion of competitiveness (something I had believed was a cornerstone of neoliberal ideology) built within it per the Stability and Growth Pact, but it is ultimately true that it is the UK that has much more consistently promoted neoliberal politics than the EU.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

The downside is that you lose control of monetary policy. This is obviously not intrinsically bad. I very much doubt things would be significantly better for Cornwall if they had monetary sovereignty. However, you need a fiscal union to go with the monetary union - you need to be able to tax areas for where the currency is overvalued to spend in areas where the currency is undervalued (so, as an example, in the UK London is a net contributor and Hull is a net recipient of govt spending, reflecting relative productivity in those areas). The Euro does not have this.

Speaking of which, about 2 years ago there was a lot of talk about mechanisms to tackle this problem.
It was mainly broken down to "germanys trade surplus is everyone elses deficit", the Euro beeing a comparatively weak currency for germanys economy helps german exports while its a huge burden for weaker economies where a weaker currency would be more appropriate.
Everyone was basically saying that it can't work like this.
I think in Germany the opposition proposed Eurobonds as part of the solution, but then other things happened and the debate pretty much disappeared.
Why?

 

[BlastProcessing]

Starting to see more articles saying "Who will be the next London?". Does everyone in the world only see us as a services industry country?

As an American who lived in London for a bit, yeah that's pretty much exactly as I see you.

 

[JP_]

I can assure you that nobody talks about neoliberalism and it is not a branch of economics. Nor was it invented in America. The term first appears in Germany in 1938; where it was used to describe a political ideology and not an economic school. Nor was it a pro-free market term, originally neoliberalism was used to describe "third way" politics that melded free markets and state interventionism, because it recognised that classical liberalism didn't actually tend to lead to greater freedoms. This use of the terminology persists through to the 1960s and even early 1970s, the main neoliberal (against as a political term) theorists are Röpke and Rüstow; the latter being well-remembered for writing a series of rather scorching articles against free market failings.

After the 1970s, the phrase became subject to a backlash because leftists felt that the movement was being co-opted from trying to synthesize socialist and capitalist principles to being a disguise for free-market reforms without upsetting socialists (see Barbara Castle and Denis Healey being tarred with the label). After this point, the word becomes somewhat meaningless. By the 1980s, neoliberal encompasses everything from Thatcher to Peters (see Peters' 1983 article A Neoliberal's Manifesto, where the third part is dedicated to attacking the very corporatocracy you ascribe to neoliberalism). The term is now essentially just a generic pejorative for "any idea I don't approve of", and largely died out in academic use in the early 1990s at the latest. You will look far and wide to find anyone who self-describes as a neoliberal; the term is just hot air.

Great post, and I think you're mostly right (and the poster you quoted does throw it around like a loose pejorative boogie-man term), but just because nobody calls themselves a neoliberal doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning -- and while the meaning has evolved, it is still used today and I think there's enough consensus over what it means in modern context (among economists, at least): http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2016/06/ostry.htm, https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=neoliberal&btnG=&as_sdt=1,44

 

[Peru]

So a new poll about the EU and views on a referendum has been published in Denmark. Have we seen any from other European countries yet? Anyway, the result is that support for EU has risen and support for a referendum has dropped post-Brexit.

 

[KingSnake]

So a new poll about the EU and views on a referendum has been published in Denmark. Have we seen any from other European countries yet? Anyway, the result is that support for EU has risen and support for a referendum has dropped post-Brexit.

It would be quite ironic if Brexit would turn out to be the best thing that happened to EU in years.

 

[Sarek]

So a new poll about the EU and views on a referendum has been published in Denmark. Have we seen any from other European countries yet? Anyway, the result is that support for EU has risen and support for a referendum has dropped post-Brexit.

There was at least one in Finland last week. 69% said no to even having a "fixit" referendum. The support for staying in euro was equally high as well.

 

[mrklaw]

Ah Boris. Yes, all us silly people mourning brexit are simply beset by hysteria like when Princess Diana died. What a lovely comparison.

So what was it about? People’s emotions matter, even when they do not seem to be wholly rational. The feelings being manifested outside my house are shared by the large numbers of people – 30,000, they say – who at the weekend came together in Trafalgar Square to hear pro-EU speeches by Sir Bob Geldof. There is, among a section of the population, a kind of hysteria, a contagious mourning of the kind that I remember in 1997 after the death of the Princess of Wales. It is not about the EU, of course; or not solely. A great many of these protesters – like dear old Geldof – are in a state of some confusion about the EU and what it does.

It is not, as he says, a “free trade area”; if only it were. It is a vast and convoluted exercise in trying to create a federal union – a new political construction based in Brussels. But, as I say, I don’t believe that it is psychologically credible to imagine young people chanting hysterically in favour of Brussels bureaucrats. The whole protest is not about the EU project, per se; it is about them – their own fears and anxieties that are now being projected on to Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

 

[Maledict]

Boris has a long track record of being an absolute dismissive cunt to people who display emotions about something he doesn't like. Look at the fiasco with Liverpool when he had a go at them about Hillsborough.

The guys a complete shit but gets away with so much because of his mannerisms. It's appalling really how easily he exploits that blind spot in us where we see a bumbling, funny looking guy and immediately write him off.

 

[oti]

Apparently the Scottish First Minister's biggest opposition is now also in favour of a second indy referendum. I guess this underlines the general mood in Scotland. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36698036

I have to admit, this whole thing has gotten so much bigger than the UK all of a sudden I'm losing my interest in Tories, Labour, Gove, May, Corbyn and so on. We are now witnessing a surprisingly public battle over the future of the EU. German parties SPD and CDU are just getting ready for it it seems like. Next year there will also be elections in Germany.

 

[Plasma]

Ah Boris. Yes, all us silly people mourning brexit are simply beset by hysteria like when Princess Diana died. What a lovely comparison.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

Absolutely pathetic he won't take any responsibility and instead he is going to sit there and prod the other candidates.

 

[Maledict]

Starting to see more articles saying "Who will be the next London?". Does everyone in the world only see us as a services industry country?

Because we are. We've been viewed as the worlds first 'post industrial' economy for some time. Finance and law all over the world takes place in England and under English law because that's how we have matured as an economy.

That's why Brexit is so utterly insane. London contributed so much to the tax bill that damaging it in this way (against its residents wishes) will damage the whole country in a massive way. If London loses its place as the worlds financial hub over the next decade because of this then we will end up trapped in another cycle of endless austerity. We will have had 20 years of it by that point, which means for a lot of working people all they will have ever known is this type of economy.

 

[Moosichu]

Screw them, they really shouldn't have voted for leave en masse.

They "screw them, they did this" never solves the issue though. If they are "screwed", the Xenophobia, the Nationalism, will only get worse.

 

[peely]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

My 5 point plan in 4 points !

 

[GamerMax73]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/03/tory-candidates-need-a-plan-for-brexit---heres-mine-in-5-points/

Oh, Boris! The irony of point 4:

We can supply leadership in Europe on security and other matters, but at an intergovernmental level.

I know you are talking about NATO in particular, and of course the UN - but seriously, is this not the very definition of what our place should be within the EU?

"Supply leadership in Europe","at an intergovernmental level". (a.k.a. The EU?)

 

[Mr. Sam]

The second time Boris has written an article that begs the question "Why don't we stay in the fucking EU then? Oh, right, that's what you wanted, but you made a whoopsie."

As the news cycle - hopefully - slows, I can finally stop trawling through articles and stalking NeoGAF all day. Just as well - I'll be one of the first on the chopping block of the housing market collapses.

I've probably just jinxed it and Gove will challenge May to a leadership contest by combat and Crabb will reveal he's an actual crab, which would explain why he can't walk forwards.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Oh, Boris! The irony of point 4:



I know you are talking about NATO in particular, and of course the UN - but seriously, is this not the very definition of what our place should be within the EU?

"Supply leadership in Europe","at an intergovernmental level". (a.k.a. The EU?)

"I am not the man to provide that leadership!"

 

[blu]

#peakPatriotism

Britain, you were played by a clown.

 

[Condom]

Small article.

Oh please you missed the goal of the EU of creating a single market with free competition of labour and capital including sectors that were normally publicly controlled like energy or public transportation. Governments everywhere are being forced to selling good working companies.
Furthermore the EU has become a perfect place for lobbyists (of all kinds) and while having some labour regulations is also known to be anti-union/collective bargaining.

It's turning to be a very pro-business union for various reasons and some people don't like that, I understand that. For you academic liberals the EU may be progressive enough, cool enjoy your privileged position of not having to clean toilets.
Now I do agree that the UK was one of the 'offenders' within the union and really just opened up another opportunity to become even more liberal (read: rightwing) after Brexit.

 

[LewieP]

Utterly astonished that Boris Johnson is entirely in hiding except for his highly paid weekly Telegraph column. He's still a paid MP.

Why is serving his paymasters at The Telegraph more important than serving the public? It's a disgrace.

This week's column is basically "actually I am more lefty than the lefties that are shouting at me makes you think".

 

[Xun]

Britain, you were played by a clown.

A well dressed clown at least...

 

[JP_]

Posted? https://www.nchlondon.ac.uk/2016/07...trigger-article-50-lisbon-treaty-1-july-2016/

My phone won't let me copy text from the website for some reason

Edit: aha! Read mode or whatever saved the day

"Professor A C Grayling’s letter to all 650 MPs urging Parliament not to support a motion to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty"

 

[Oriel]

Yep I've been saying this for a while, history will be very kind to Angela. I hold her up there with truly great leaders.

Juncker the local dictator will just have to wait to destroy the EU another day.

History will probably remember Merkel as the woman who wrought ruin on Europe, all as part of her demented anti-integrationist agenda. I hope the SDP can get their shit together and take back power because right now she and her band of muppets are the most destabilising elements in Europe.

And that Mail-esque "Juncker the local dictator" jibe doesn't deserve a retort.

 

[2MF]

Posted? https://www.nchlondon.ac.uk/2016/07...trigger-article-50-lisbon-treaty-1-july-2016/

My phone won't let me copy text from the website for some reason

Edit: aha! Read mode or whatever saved the day

"Professor A C Grayling’s letter to all 650 MPs urging Parliament not to support a motion to trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty"

Makes many good points that I agree with, but too late. The public has been sold a referendum which decided whether the UK would leave the EU. That letter should have been sent months ago when the referendum was being set up.

To change that now would be rightly interpreted as a bait and switch by the leave voters, which would lead to more anger and tension within the country. Things could get really ugly.

 

[Goodlife]

Really good video

https://youtu.be/WcXf1Fz5Fw4

 

[KingSnake]

History will probably remember Merkel as the woman who wrought ruin on Europe, all as part of her demented anti-integrationist agenda. I hope the SDP can get their shit together and take back power because right now she and her band of muppets are the most destabilising elements in Europe.

And that Mail-esque "Juncker the local dictator" jibe doesn't deserve a retort.

Merkel's stand has less to do with her believes about future of Europe and more to do with the upcoming elections.

Also this "conflict" with Juncker is funny, as if he wasn't actually the candidate of Merkel's party (EPP).

 

[accel]

Makes many good points that I agree with, but too late. The public has been sold a referendum which decided whether the UK would leave the EU. That letter should have been sent months ago when the referendum was being set up.

To change that now would be rightly interpreted as a bait and switch by the leave voters, which would lead to more anger and tension within the country. Things could get really ugly.

Yes, exactly.

If leaving the EU is a question that requires more than a simple majority, there should have been no referendum. Since the referendum happened, there's nothing to talk about any more, the people were asked a question and they have answered it. (Now, surely, there was imperfect information and new, perhaps unforeseen by many, circumstances, etc, etc, etc, but it's always the case, it can't be grounds for re-asking the question.)

 

[KingSnake]

I'm also of the opinion that a backtracking on the referendum result could turn very ugly. And not only in UK, but also will be blamed again for a decision that is practically local.

 

[Maledict]

'Let's walk off a cliff because someone said so!'

I really loathe this trend towards shutting discussion and debate over Europe. I find it incredibly undemocratic and appallingly reductionist. As if everything can be boiled down to a simple yes / no question and then, once a small majority says yes, that's it FOREVER. No more discussion, no more arguments, no more facts, no more experts - the people have spoken and for all time it must be so.

Fuck that. We are a representative democracy where each parliament is unbound by the previous. People should still campaign to stay in Europe, people should press their MPs, and if there is a general election and it returns a different result we should not leave Europe.

I'm sorry but the entire tone stinks of something approaching censorship at this rate - 'shut up, be quiet, the people have spoken and we will no longer talk about this in any way'. I also think the implicit threats are appalling - MPs have to do this thing they know will wreck the country because otherwise leave voters will.... Wreck the country? It's funny how remain campaigners get attacked for simply protesting within the law, and yet leave campaigners keep going back to 'violence on the streets' if the result is later ignored / overturned.

I mean, ffs, by the time article 50 ends demographics alone will have probably shifted the result to Remain. That alone should give anyone pause for thought - when we actually leave Europe a majority of the voting population will probably want to stay.

 

[oti]

Merkel's stand has less to do with her believes about future of Europe and more to do with the upcoming elections.

Also this "conflict" with Juncker is funny, as if he wasn't actually the candidate of Merkel's party (EPP).

It's interesting. The German public is still in shock over the result. There is no clear way on how to appeal to the German voter right now regarding Brexit. Nobody is shouting to kick the UK out immediately, nobody is shouting to do everything to keep them. Everyone's just listening to what the politicians have to say. But slowly the UK will lose importance for the elections and EU will take the center stage. Merkel has made her position clear and the CSU seems to be OK with that. The SPD is a bit muddy right now. Gabriel (Minister of Economic Affairs) wants to battle unemployment amongst the young but doesn't want to take on more debt. Maybe he wants a more powerful EU (he wants an EU army for instance), maybe not.

My guess would be that Gabriel will change his tune eventually and face Merkel straight on regarding austerity. The SPD needs something to differentiate itself.

 

[KingSnake]

'Let's walk off a cliff because someone said so!'

I really loathe this trend towards shutting discussion and debate over Europe. I find it incredibly undemocratic and appallingly reductionist. As if everything can be boiled down to a simple yes / no question and then, once a small majority says yes, that's it FOREVER. No more discussion, no more arguments, no more facts, no more experts - the people have spoken and for all time it must be so.

Fuck that. We are a representative democracy where each parliament is unbound by the previous. People should still campaign to stay in Europe, people should press their MPs, and if there is a general election and it returns a different result we should not leave Europe.

I'm sorry but the entire tone stinks of something approaching censorship at this rate - 'shut up, be quiet, the people have spoken and we will no longer talk about this in any way'.

I mean, ffs, by the time article 50 ends demographics alone will have probably shifted the result to Remain. That alone should give anyone pause for thought - when we actually leave Europe a majority of the voting population will probably want to stay.

No, it's not forever . but it shouldn't be turned around immediately either. I think a common sense approach on direct democracy vs. representative democracy would be to tackle in the next term election the same topic and if the party (parties) supporting overturning the decision win a majority then it can be decided upon. But currently I don't think any of the MPs has a mandate against the referendum's result.

 

[HazySaiyan]

So have I got it correct that Philip Hammond is now saying they can't guarantee the status of EU nationals already in the UK?

What the hell is happening? Why is this even on the table?

 

[d9b]

Just go UK, this is embarrassing at this point.

 

[accel]

'Let's walk off a cliff because someone said so!'

I don't think exiting the EU is walking off a cliff. There have been several unpleasant surprises, yes (ie, Boris walking and a lot of the top brass apparently not being serious about exiting, which is why they are now running in weird directions), but the reasons for voting Leave that were there before are largely the same, they didn't change. Just 2p.

 

[Goodlife]

So have I got it correct that Philip Hammond is now saying they can't guarantee the status of EU nationals already in the UK?

What the hell is happening? Why is this even on the table?

I'd imagine it's the UK trying to use it as a bargaining chip in negotiations.
The cunts

 

[Real Hero]

So have I got it correct that Philip Hammond is now saying they can't guarantee the status of EU nationals already in the UK?

What the hell is happening? Why is this even on the table?

Britannia will be great again!

 

[Palculator]

Just go UK, this is embarrassing at this point.

At least the chaos has so far deterred a bunch of other nations who were leaning towards Leave.

 

[CyclopsRock]

This x 1000. No Londoner would give a shit if most of the government bureaucrats were moved to other cities, providing much needed highly skilled jobs outside of the London area and reducing the feeling that the government elite is holed up in a Shard-shaped ivory tower.

This is how things are done in Finland already, don't know about other countries but it's just common sense IMHO.

I imagine the tens of thousands who currently work those jobs probably would.