PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked

icespide said:
I mean if Neo is only worth it on a 4k TV
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In that case those people can happily stay with their PS4 until the next generation of consoles without having to buy anything new, so they should be happy :P
Just until a few months ago people were crying about the death of traditional console cycles, now they should go mad if they don't have enough reason to buy new hardware again? :D

Based on this documentation it's clear that PS4 Neo is still a PS4, it's not a new console cycle.
It is mainly designed to target resolutions higher than 1080p at possibly higher frame rates.
So yeah if you don't have a UHD TV you're losing much of the point behind this high end model of PS4.
 
WinterX said:
Don't think so. PS3 had serious problems against Xbox 360. It had better CPU but a bit worse GPU. Xbox 360 sold for many years much better. Now let's move back to 2013. You know why Sony sold more PS4 over Xbox One? It was available worldwide almost immediately and it's much better than when we compare specifications.

I'll stick with NEO. Bought already many titles for PS4 so it would be a real waste of money for me. Looking forward to playing The Witcher 3 in 1080p 60fps but I really doubt it will come true :)
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You forgot Europe ans Asia markets, Ups, and launch price.
You know what? Neo is going to be cheaper than Scorpio on its launch.
 
This is the document that GiantBomb and Digital Foundry used three months ago for their reveals (April 18-19)

Now let's see what happens in September before jumping to conclusions...
 
Really disappointed that they are putting more power into this neo console but keeping the same cheap hard drive. Bet it will still have the same wifi too.
 
This better have sata 3 so hdd speed can help with streaming assets... shitty 5400k rpm drives won't cut it when we have ssd prices dropping. My current ps4 runs a wd black 7200k drive because the jump to ssd was trivial which is stupid =/
 
Nirolak said:
Sony wants to sell 4K TVs so they're trying to convince devs to do some kind of half-baked 4K rendering.

I'm assuming many of them won't actually try doing that, since they don't have personal incentives to sell 4K TVs, and instead to sell their video game.

Sony's first party by comparison will presumably be mandated to at least render something resembling 4K, similar to how many of them were required to render 3D TV output before that got dropped.
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I wish they'd start doing 3D again instead of half-assed 4k, those games were amazing.
 
So the dream of seeing Bloodborne, Witcher 3 and Uncharted 4 on Neo Mode is dead.

Until PS5 Remasterssssss guys.
 
geordiemp said:
What exactly will be the benefit for most players playing a 1080p30 game on ps4 ?

Downsampling may give better edges and stuff but I am not feeling it.

If Scorpio with zen offers 1080p60 gaming for 3rd party AAA games, Neo will be shit,
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Gotta give Microsoft credit. They are not producing a half-ass upgrade.

butman said:
So the dream of seeing Bloodborne, Witcher 3 and Uncharted 4 on Neo Mode is dead.

Until PS5 Remasterssssss guys.
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Uncharted 4 will definitely get a Neo mode. Not sure about Bloodborne, but Japan Studio might do it. Old 3rd party games are unlikely for the most part.
 
Fredrik said:
Am I? I've seen Sony crush the dreams of the competitors so many times before, now that they know what MS will do they'll most likely one-up them somehow..
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So they send out the QA consoles, sign contracts with the manufacturer, contracts with the suppliers of components, decide and set in stone the apu etc...

If you can list me many times Sony have crushed the opposition in similar circumstances I will buy you a Neo!
 
Sniffynose said:
This better have sata 3 so hdd speed can help with streaming assets... shitty 5400k rpm drives won't cut it when we have ssd prices dropping. My current ps4 runs a wd black 7200k drive because the jump to ssd was trivial which is stupid =/
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Sounds like it according to the pdf.
 
Elios83 said:
In that case those people can happily stay with their PS4 until the next generation of consoles without having to buy anything new, so they should be happy :P
Just until a few months ago people were crying about the death of traditional console cycles, now they should go mad if they don't have enough reason to buy new hardware again? :D

Based on this documentation it's clear that PS4 Neo is still a PS4, it's not a new console cycle.
It is mainly designed to target resolutions higher than 1080p at possibly higher frame rates.
So yeah if you don't have a UHD TV you're losing much of the point behind this high end model of PS4.
Click to expand...

there's a decent chunk of people that would like better looking/running games at 1080p. it remains to be seen if that will be what devs actually deliver with Neo
 
Why are people acting like this is new information. This is the information all of the articles were about. I'm confused by the reactions in here
 
idonteven said:
this is gonna get destroyed by the scorpio isnt it
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Assuming these are the final or close to final specs, yes. Destroyed is an understatement.

Really not a big deal though. The PS4 is already consistently hitting 1080/30 or 1080/60 and 4K TV adoption is nowhere near the level it needs to be to make it worth it.

If the first party exclusives can get patches for improved 1080 features and performance then that's fine given the base they're working off.
 
Occam said:
I wish they'd start doing 3D again instead of half-assed 4k, those games were amazing.
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Yeah but people actually buy 4K TVs now. Nobody is buying 3D TV's anymore. Neo/Scorpio are primed to help move a new market to benefit TV/display manufacturers like Sony.

idonteven said:
this is gonna get destroyed by the scorpio isnt it
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Depends on pricing. Scorpio will definitely enter the market next year as the most expensive console. The power:price ratio might only be appealing to a smaller audience.
 
big_z said:
The power difference is huge but rumour is Sony held back neo at e3 to fiddle with specs a bit after finding out what Microsoft is doing.
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Rumor is Microsoft announced Scorpio with 6TF to bait Sony into upping the Neo's specs so they could then up the Scorpio's specs while pushing the launch date back for the Neo.

lol.
 
MisterXDTV said:
This is the document that GiantBomb and Digital Foundry used three months ago for their reveals (April 18-19)

Now let's see what happens in September before jumping to conclusions...
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What are you hinting at? That Sony have played everyone with a doc "leak" that isn't true and they'll come out in September with stronger specs?
 
StrongBlackVine said:
Let's be honest here. You only feel this way because it serves you desires and alleviates your fears of the OG PS4 games looking much worse than Neo games. For those of us that really wanted this it will be a huge disappointment.

PS5 will be underwhelming in relation to current tech as long they are afraid to go above $399.
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? Not sure where you got that idea. I don't really care about NEO, or what it brings to the table compared to PS4. I just care about generational cycles and Sony not upsetting the applecart with a unit that would diminish what a PS5 would bring to the table.

As for PS5 being underwhelming, in 3 or 4 years, at 399, i think you'll be surprised at what can be fit into a box with the technologies on offer. NEO isn't including, ZEN, HBM3 or a requirement that games are pushed forward like PS5 will.

That's my prediction.
 
Nibel said:
Looks legit to me? (FWIW: this is an older document which seems to be what Austin got his hands on some months ago)

https://de.scribd.com/doc/312585554/PS4-5-NEO-pdf

via WCCF Tech

UNaXFyH.png
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I thought we already knew this?
 
Why do people think Sony cares about competing with Scorpio right now? They are going to be a completely different price range.
 
Guymelef said:
You forgot Europe ans Asia markets, Ups, and launch price.
You know what? Neo is going to be cheaper than Scorpio on its launch.
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Is going? Still no official statement about it. It should be somewhere near $399 but it's only my prediction.

Microsoft have had hard time since the Xbox One release so now they want to start anew but with much better hardware. Going to sell way better than NEO IMO.
 
Have to admit I get a laugh out of the constant implications that an updated Xbox One is something Sony should be running scared of in these threads.

Rude awakening incoming.
 
MrMatt555 said:
Can you explain to me how this is half-baked.? I know next to nothing about this sort of stuff.
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To really simplify it basically they're recommending people to use techniques that only require rendering half the pixels that are needed and stretching it out.

Like instead of rendering each and every one of the 1920x1080 pixels in a 1080p image, they render 1920x540. And then stretch the 540 into 1080. Stretching the image barely uses any power, while rendering those lines of pixels would use up quite a bit. If you were to see the picture before it stretches, it would look squished.

So while this technique may look better than a 720p image, it is nowhere close to what a proper 1080p image would give you.

Similarly here, they're suggesting the same thing for 4k. These techniques will probably get the games to look better than the 1080p counterpart, but it won't look nearly as good as what a proper 4k game would look like.

Again, this is just really simplifying. There's lots of different techniques that can be used and it isn't just simple stretching or anything.
 
73c5ef2076.png


I wonder what this means for games like Persona 5, where the street date in Japan is before the NEO mandatory support date, but the Western street date is way after that.
 
MrMatt555 said:
Can you explain to me how this is half-baked.? I know next to nothing about this sort of stuff.
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Essentially they're rendering each frame like a checkerboard (with the black squares not being rendered) and then alternating which pixels gets rendered each frame.

They then use previous results to help interpolate what the image should look like so that doesn't look like half your screen is black.

They're also combining this with rendering in sub-4K resolution and then upscaling it.

Regular 4K rendering would be rendering all of the pixels each frame at native resolution.

This goes into checkerboard rendering in more detail: http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vaul...s/El_Mansouri_Jalal_Rendering_Rainbow_Six.pdf
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
What are you hinting at? That Sony have played everyone with a doc "leak" that isn't true and they'll come out in September with stronger specs?
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I meant that the document is clearly very early 2016, some things might have changed since then or not but there's no reason to consider this document as breaking news
 
Inuhanyou said:
? Not sure where you got that idea. I don't really care about NEO, or what it brings to the table compared to PS4. I just care about generational cycles and Sony not upsetting the applecart with a unit that would diminish what a PS5 would bring to the table.

As for PS5 being underwhelming, in 3 or 4 years, at 399, i think you'll be surprised at what can be fit into a box with the technologies on offer. NEO isn't including, ZEN, HBM3 or a requirement that games are pushed forward like PS5 will.

That's my prediction.
Click to expand...

not enough people understand this.
 
Wereroku said:
Why do people think Sony cares about competing with Scorpio right now? They are going to be a completely different price range.
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They might have gone back to the drawing board. With Xbox One Scorpio coming out next year, Those who want the most powerful system may not buy the Neo now. Sony is used to having the power advantage.
 
Real talk. Some of yall are terrible at math.

Again this information is nothing new at all. Its pretty much how we got the info back in March. And people seem to be making the same tired arguments.

Yes Scorpio will be more powerful spec wise. It's not new. It comes out a year later, but at this point it's still just a concept. Neo will be more than enough of an upgrade for what Sony wants. I'm sure the issue of cost comes into play as well. Sony probably wants this in line with what the OG PS4 started out as.
 
Inuhanyou said:
? Not sure where you got that idea. I don't really care about NEO, or what it brings to the table compared to PS4. I just care about generational cycles and Sony not upsetting the applecart with a unit that would diminish what a PS5 would bring to the table.

As for PS5 being underwhelming, in 3 or 4 years, at 399, i think you'll be surprised at what can be fit into a box with the technologies on offer. NEO isn't including, ZEN, HBM3 or a requirement that games are pushed forward like PS5 will.

That's my prediction.
Click to expand...

How would a more powerful PS4 Neo diminish the PS5 in any way?

Boke1879 said:
Real talk. Some of yall are terrible at math.

Again this information is nothing new at all. Its pretty much how we got the info back in March. And people seem to be making the same tired arguments.

Yes Scorpio will be more powerful spec wise. It's not new. It comes out a year later, but at this point it's still just a concept. Neo will be more than enough of an upgrade for what Sony wants. I'm sure the issue of cost comes into play as well. Sony probably wants this in line with what the OG PS4 started out as.
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This is my issue. Why is it being labeled as a premium product if they are afraid to actually make it one?
 
Noobcraft said:
Rumor is Microsoft announced Scorpio with 6TF to bait Sony into upping the Neo's specs so they could then up the Scorpio's specs while pushing the launch date back for the Neo.

lol.
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Yeah,..that rumour dude is talking about is the first time i am hearing about that.

I think what the guy from Sony said says quite a bit. It was during E3 and basically he said it's not all about power. Not those exact words but something along those lines.

There's a good chance they will have the weaker system this time around, but just look at what Sony devs manage to do with PS4....no worries. Multiplatform games however...will probably be better on Scorpio. Unless parity comes into play.
 
Andrefpvs said:
73c5ef2076.png


I wonder what this means for games like Persona 5, where the street date in Japan is before the NEO mandatory support date, but the Western street date is way after that.
Click to expand...

I think they will release just the base version, since it first comes out before October and not really late September.
 
icespide said:
there's a decent chunk of people that would like better looking/running games at 1080p. it remains to be seen if that will be what devs actually deliver with Neo
Click to expand...

Yes and the document states that better frame rates and improved graphics are possible and those will be enjoyed even on a full HD TV.
But delivering resolutions higher than 1080p is also a key point behind the Neo so the idea of using ALL the Neo's extra power to improve redering at 1080p doesn't seem within the guidelines to developers at the moment.
Neo seems really positioned as a PS4K.
 
WadeitOut said:
Wait there were people who thought that? That doesn't even make sense. A 4K tv already upscales input to 4K. They don't need to replace the hardware for that.
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Yep

onQ123 said:
Not up-scaled but up-rendered when the signal leave the PS4K it will be 8294400 different pixels not 2073600 different pixels scaled across 8294400 pixels.
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Metfanant said:
You gotta stop bro...you're just making yourself look bad

There are all sorts of algorithms and techniques for upscaling...you wanna call it up-rendering? That's fine, but the PS4k will no have anywhere near the power to actually render a AAA PS4 game at 4k..its quite plainly going to upscale the game to 4k...probably using a quality algorithm, that will likely outperform the upacaler in your TV or receiver...and won't introduce input lag on the back end because it's being handled by the GPU prior to being output to your receiver or TV...
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onQ123 said:
It's up rendered

LsOw5Jv.png
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Caayn said:
Upscaling an image with the information of the sub-pixels is still upscaling. Calling it up-rendered doesn't change the nature of the process.
Click to expand...
 
Andrefpvs said:
73c5ef2076.png


I wonder what this means for games like Persona 5, where the street date in Japan is before the NEO mandatory support date, but the Western street date is way after that.
Click to expand...
The western version of the game will have to be submitted for certification. No games releasing after October 2016 will be approved without a neo mode built in.

So what probably happens (if Persona 5 doesn't ship with Neo mode built in) is Persona 5 western version will be V1.1 or whatever (that has the neo mode built in), and the Japanese version will get a patch to update the game to 1.1 spec when the western version releases. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese version remains unpatched though.
 
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