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[CHC]

The average person knows more than ever before in history, yes definitely.

But by and large people just don't care about learning past a certain point. I mean, we live in an era where there are hundred and hundreds of free, recorded lectures from major universities like MIT on fucking YouTube! And yet most of them have <1,000,000 views, if even. Majority of people with headphones are listening to music, rather than a podcast, lecture or audiobook, etc.

We are just bred with this idea that once you graduate college and have a few years of job training then you are pretty much "done" learning things, unless you absolutely need to learn them to fit in (ie; how to use a phone, how to use a new OS, etc).

Most people just don't have the humility to be like "I know absolutely nothing about this, let me start from scratch and try to learn it," and instead pretty much take the attitude that "that's just not my thing."

Obviously there are many, many individuals who aren't this way, but most are.

 

[dity]

There's this big wall called university that requires $100,000 and takes 4 years to climb over.

 

[entremet]

First define intelligence for this discussion.

It's a very nebulous term.

It sounds like you're talking about greater political activism and challenge to the status quo, which may be independent to intelligence.

 

[LosDaddie]

I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. I believe people are being encouraged to get educated

 

[xk0sm0sx]

It is?

Evolution, Big Bang... Sure, not every religious people is like that, but they exists. I'm sure if you ask some christians about carbon dating they will say it's not true.

First define intelligence for this discussion.

It's a very nebulous term.

It sounds like you're talking about greater political activism and challenge to the status quo, which may be independent to intelligence.

Hmm I meant in a very general way, the skillset of the people in every possible ways, whether it is knowledge, practical skills, and arts.

Challenging people to be more useful should be a top priority rather than money, or we'll never advance as a human race

 

[KevinCow]

Compared to any other time in history, this is the most educated the population has ever been, so I don't really agree with your thesis there.

Maybe people are generally more educated today than they used to be.

But compared to how easily accessible information is, they're not nearly as educated as they could and should be.

Before the internet and smartphones, it was understandable for somebody to come across something they didn't know and say, "Welp, guess I'll never know that."

But today, you can have your answer literally in seconds. There's no excuse for ignorance anymore.

As a society, at least here in America, people (mainly the right) seem to demonize knowledge and education, call people elitists if they demonstrate knowledge and education, say that scientists are lying to you and out to get you for some reason. And given the wealth of information at our fingertips, that's not how it should be.

 

[Jb]

I don't know about that kind of extend but there is no denying that the importance and or the validity of certain topics in science does get downplayed/ignored/misrepresented and not by fringe groups.
So at least to some extend certain knowledge is being obfuscated or kept from a portion of the public.

That's pretty vague. I struggle to think of a type of knowledge that's not freely available to us living in liberal democracy in the internet age, regardless of our ethnic or religious background.

 

[TestMonkey]

Because smarter doesn't mean living better. Knowing more doesn't lead to better human relationships or increase standards of living. Ignorance is bliss but bigotry is the new standard. For all the talk of an ever increasing amount of information available in the world, most people aren't using it. Most people only want to reinforce their own worldview and will vehemently attack anyone who challenges it. It's not exclusive to religion either, academia is just as bad.

 

[entremet]

Evolution, Big Bang... Sure, not every religious people is like that, but they exists. I'm sure if you ask some christians about carbon dating they will say it's not true.



Hmm I meant in a very general way, the skillset of the people in every possible ways, whether it is knowledge, practical skills, and arts.

Challenging people to be more useful should be a top priority rather than money, or we'll never advance as a human race

I'd say this is generally encouraged. Mostly because we are a knowledge economy.

 

[HarryKS]

It's better to be attractive than intelligent.

Human intelligence shit on the world, why would the world want to encourage people to get smarter?

Not really.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

I'd say this is generally encouraged. Mostly because we are a knowledge economy.

Generally, but some countries are still pretty stingy in offering education, preferring to prioritise investing in things other than schools and education.

Like, we could be doing better, but it's still on a backburner due to other things. Like, government cutting money to space program even though some of our technology now has came from NASA inventions.

 

[entremet]

Generally, but some countries are still pretty stingy in offering education, preferring to prioritise investing in things other than schools and education.

Which countries?

I mean, NK is a clear anomaly lol.

The US and EU spend tons on education. Disparities are usually poverty related.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Because smarter doesn't mean living better. Knowing more doesn't lead to better human relationships or increase standards of living. Ignorance is bliss but bigotry is the new standard. For all the talk of an ever increasing amount of information available in the world, most people aren't using it. Most people only want to reinforce their own worldview and will vehemently attack anyone who challenges it. It's not exclusive to religion either, academia is just as bad.

Yes. This sums up my thoughts on the matter as well.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

Which countries?

I mean, NK is a clear anomaly lol.

The US and EU spend tons on education. Disparities are usually poverty related.

Third world countries. Like Africa.
Also, guess who is opposing spending education in the US&#65311;
Plus, some christians succeeding in opening christian schools that does not teach evolution. This shit should be illegal.

 

[entremet]

Third world countries. Like Africa.

Africa is a huge region.

Hard to lump it together.

Also the economic growth in Africa in the last two decades has been massive.

 

[Litan]

Third world countries. Like Africa.

Africa is a fucking continent.

 

[NobleGundam]

Imagine humanity as one single organism.
And each continent a vital organ.
Give cells (people) new ideas / commands they'll either build, repair, or destroy, and etc.

 

[IndoAssassin]

The problem isn't the population getting dumber, the problem is the population not learning how to use critical thinking when trying to gain knowledge or producing an argument.

You spend your whole childhood learning how to listen to someone who is following a set curriculum. Or you read one textbook to find the info/answers you need. Which set our minds to think that getting our answers from one source is good enough which is our detriment.

For example: Uncle says vaccines are bad. Automatically a confirmation bias has developed in your brain because you heard it from someone you know. You research on Internet, but without even really knowing it you will only click on articles that confirm what you heard. Then you will pass it on to someone else and they will do the same thing. These blogs end up becoming popular due to word of mouth, and the actual fact based blogs/articles get lower down the list, which then makes it even easier for the population to read misinformation, because we were never taught critical thinking. 99% of the population is this way. So smartness has nothing to do with it.

 

[Vitten]

Compared to any other time in history, this is the most educated the population has ever been, so I don't really agree with your thesis there.

The gen pop undergoes a lot more education than ever before indeed and the media bombards us with news and info 24/7.
Still I would argue it doesn't necessarily make us smarter, a dumb person will always remain dumb. You can teach maths to a chimp but that doesn't mean it'll understand.

 

[ZackieChan]

Generally, but some countries are still pretty stingy in offering education, preferring to prioritise investing in things other than schools and education.

Like, we could be doing better, but it's still on a backburner due to other things. Like, government cutting money to space program even though some of our technology now has came from NASA inventions.

Your posts in here lack any kind of factual or evidentiary basis. Seems like you, no offense, are projecting your shortcomings onto the world as a whole, whether knowingly or not.

 

[Damerman]

There's this big wall called university that requires $100,000 and takes 4 years to climb over.

This would be my explanation for the discouragement OP might be talking about. The average person is becoming more knowledgable though.

 

[Damerman]

Third world countries. Like Africa.
Also, guess who is opposing spending education in the US&#65311;
Plus, some christians succeeding in opening christian schools that does not teach evolution. This shit should be illegal.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

Your posts in here lack any kind of factual or evidentiary basis. Seems like you, no offense, are projecting your shortcomings onto the world as a whole, whether knowingly or not.

I'm talking about the hurdles to education. Like, I know some countries offer free education, and that's awesome, but America has so much stories of terrible student debts. Why isn't this issue being solved?

 

[ZackieChan]

I'm talking about the hurdles to education. Like, I know some countries offer free education, and that's awesome, but America has so much stories of terrible student debts. Why isn't this issue being solved?

If you don't want a degree, there are innumerable ways to get educated in a variety of subjects and real skills on the internet. You can attend MIT for free, essentially. You can get specific training in software development, web development, starting a business, etc through online courses. You can attend community college for a fraction of the cost of a university.

Your arguments are all over the place.

 

[Skii]

Well because of intelligent people, natural selection occurs a lot more slower in human populations allowing "stupider" people to drift to higher frequencies.

Spoiler

I don't know

 

[entremet]

If you don't want a degree, there are innumerable ways to get educated in a variety of subjects and real skills on the internet. You can attend MIT for free, essentially. You can get specific training in software development, web development, starting a business, etc through online courses. You can attend community college for a fraction of the cost of a university.

Your arguments are all over the place.

Yeah, OP.

You are all over the place lol.

No offense.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

If you don't want a degree, there are innumerable ways to get educated in a variety of subjects and real skills on the internet. You can attend MIT for free, essentially. You can get specific training in software development, web development, starting a business, etc through online courses. You can attend community college for a fraction of the cost of a university.

Your arguments are all over the place.

Sure, but these are all of your own initiatives. My topic is why isn't this being encouraged at all?

Also you need someone to tell you what you need to learn before you can go learn it...

Also, if America is truly educated, how did Donald Trump end up being the President nominee.. the flow seems to be going against intelligence

 

[Mr. Giggles]

Detailed, accurate information is usually boring and hard to get through while vapid soundbites and people saying dumb things gets retweeted and reblogged furiously. There is light being shone on things for being terrible or stupid more than at any point in history and news tidbits can circulate faster than ever, so it can seem like everything is falling apart, everybody is getting blown up, shot, stabbed, raped, and everybody is an ignorant moron if you're basing your worldview on a kind of vague impression you get from news stories and what's currently trending.

True. I still sit with my face in my hands when ever I see how much retweets Jayden smith can conjure up with his ...... jumbled thoughts

Twitter will be the catalyst for WWIII.

 

[Razorback]

The gen pop undergoes a lot more education than ever before indeed and the media bombards us with news and info 24/7.
Still I would argue it doesn't necessarily make us smarter, a dumb person will always remain dumb. You can teach maths to a chimp but that doesn't mean it'll understand.

So tell me if I'm wrong, you think education has no bearing on someone's intelligence. It's all up to genetic lottery?

Your definition of intelligence is very different from mine. It seems you only care about processing power. Calculations per second, like a a CPU. Well a CPU is pretty much useless if you don't feed it any type of data. But you would still be wrong to think this way because the human brain requires outside information to make new connections, otherwise it will atrophy.

 

[HStallion]

Ignorance is bliss was never a more meaningful statement to some now that the internet is around.

 

[Goro Majima]

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

 

[klonere]

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

Did someone say bottom of the totem pole menial labour?

 

[xk0sm0sx]

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

Why pay humans to do menial labour when we could have robots doing it for us

 

[HStallion]

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

The Ditch Digger 3000 has a gallows humor module to crack really dark jokes as it digs.

 

[hamchan]

Just a thought that struck me... Considering how far humans have come due to really smart people, we are still at the point where it's not important for the population to be smart, in fact it's discouraged, because government seems to like a degree of stupidity to manage the population.

Let's say, if you have some ties to religious people, then it is more likely they will discourage you from learning too much science so you will still believe in a higher being.

And the thing is, humans are past the point of "Survival of the Fittest", so even though you still believe the world is flat, you still get to enjoy the inventions of genius people like airplanes, smartphones, the internet. You can still survive in the world as there are many people who believe in stupid things as well.
Considering the technology everyone uses, everyone should be past the point of believing the earth is flat, but yet we still have them.

Finally, I feel that there's few governments actually treat intelligence as an important part of nation-building. First, we still got countries like North Korea, and countries ruled by corrupt governments, who will absolutely not invest in any education for their nation, but they still survive because they can just buy the inventions of smarter countries. These countries will not be eradicated even though their people are not educated.
So obviously, with no consequences, the ruling government has no urge to educate their populace.
And even in first world countries like the US, building schools are obviously placed on the backburner as priorities are placed on things that can make money quickly.

I feel that humanity could advance and the world could be a better place if everyone as a whole becomes more educated.

So do you agree, or do you have a counter argument?

Doesn't North Korea place a huge emphasis on education?

 

[phanphare]

knowledge itself has been devalued due to the rise of the internet

 

[xk0sm0sx]

Doesn't North Korea place a huge emphasis on education?

Oh really? I have no idea about that. Good for them then, too bad all that knowledge can only be wasted on strengthening their regime.

 

[entremet]

Sure, but these are all of your own initiatives. My topic is why isn't this being encouraged at all?

Also you need someone to tell you what you need to learn before you can go learn it...

Also, if America is truly educated, how did Donald Trump end up being the President nominee.. the flow seems to be going against intelligence

Read up on cognitive biases and understanding Trump's rise is rather simple.

And no one is immune from cognitive biases. Our brains evolved to survive, everything else is secondary.

This is why tools like the scientific method are important. They help overcome cognitive biases, although not completely.

You underestimate the power of persuasion, which powers our modern consumer centric society.

 

[Goro Majima]

Did someone say bottom of the totem pole menial labour?

Why pay humans to do menial labour when we could have robots doing it for us

The Ditch Digger 3000 has a gallows humor module to crack really dark jokes as it digs.

Hopefully we can transition to some kind of super expanded welfare or UBI if robots and automation becomes so pervasive that the only jobs available are for highly skilled or educated labor. All those people who, for instance, struggle to read at a 6th grade level or whatever because they lack the capacity to do so don't disappear because we have robots.

edit: On the subject of intelligence = party politics, I think that's also a more complicated issue than just to say that the unintelligent want Trump to win. The unintelligent will also vote Democrat. Things like empathy and compassion are independent of intelligence.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Let's say, if you have some ties to religious people, then it is more likely they will discourage you from learning too much science so you will still believe in a higher being.

Maybe the more fire and brimstone denominations, but I'm sure those are losing popularity over time. Churches are trying to make the barrier to entry lower and lower. My pastor at a church I worked at in my youth suggested taking the cross out of the yard.

Anyway, there are lots of religious science minded people. At this point I think most that deny evolution would get an eye roll. Must just be more rural areas, because I don't see much of that here in Texas suburbs.

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

This is why we should starve them of oxygen in their embryonic pods. They should be happy with the life we chose for them.

 

[Kai Dracon]

It's harsh but true. Not everyone needs to go to college. Hell not everyone needs to even become skilled labor.

You're always going to have people on the bottom of the totem pole and I don't see a problem with them enjoying some creature comforts while they work their ass off doing menial labor.

If more people were better educated they might stop and ask "why do I have to do shitty menial labor for the rest of my life?" A certain number of people may naturally like to do some things we look down upon and consider menial - like cleaning, landscaping care, etc. If educated those people would still choose to do those things and that's fine.

Though I suspect in the long run, what we will actually see is people who find value in activities like like maintenance and "ditch digging" will be more highly educated supervisors of machines doing a lot of the work.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

Read up on cognitive biases and understanding Trump's rise is rather simple.

And no one is immune from cognitive biases. Our brains evolved to survive, everything else is secondary.

This is why tools like the scientific method are important. They help overcome cognitive biases, although not completely.

You underestimate the power of persuasion, which powers our modern consumer centric society.

Interesting, I felt that having a better education would train you to be more resilient to bias, by having a more open mind. Or is that just not true?

 

[yanipheonu]

There is plenty evidence of an anti-academic side of society that may be growing, at least in the states,

Read a good article in university that acknowledged that academia has fallen behind in a lot of ways.

The world has moved towards teaching people via internet articles and youtube videos, there's a whole world of free information out there. Why do universities continue to insist on a conventional printed scholarship in a world where publishing is on the decline?

Scientific studies have the problem trying to always have some new claim to make, while plenty of erroneous studies remain unchallenged by repeated studies, and are published in journals that care more about content than correct content. I can see why people develop a distrust of scientific studies.

Not to mention a problem of purely academic people being unable to convey their thoughts well. My university discovered they needed to inject more English into their Science and Engineering: people just couldn't convey their research to the average person well.

The smart people need to do a smarter job.

 

[Jehuty1989]

Here's what I think. People know more than ever thanks to the internet, you can read about just about anything within seconds. There is one factor that I think most people are missing and that's looking deeper than the first link.
I don't think that people understand enough of what they think they know. An easy example is politics, people are easily persuaded by what they think they know when it is, in fact, a biased headline that just supports their ideas already but they rarely know what politicians are up to. There can be no space to complain when you aren't actually informed, this is for any subject. This same logic applies to gaming and almost anything else.
Not enough people challenge what they think they know because they believe that they are correct regardless.
Very few people would read this and logically challenge themselves and would instead automatically dismiss the idea.
So we're smarter because we know a lot of stuff but most don't really understand it and they seem to be blissfully unaware of all the stuff going on around them.

 

[entremet]

Interesting, I felt that having a better education would train you to be more resilient to bias, by having a more open mind. Or is that just not true?

Darwin, who was much smarter than anyone on this board, thoroughly tried to disprove his scientific findings for years.

If he's not immune, what makes you think we are?

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

Anyone that manages to make a shit ton of money can't be dumb

Uhhhhh, trump....

 

[ZackieChan]

Sure, but these are all of your own initiatives. My topic is why isn't this being encouraged at all?

Also you need someone to tell you what you need to learn before you can go learn it...

Also, if America is truly educated, how did Donald Trump end up being the President nominee.. the flow seems to be going against intelligence

You've yet to provide any evidence besides "Africa" and the existence of Trump that it is being discouraged.

 

[Bad_Boy]

I think i get the op. We are at the smartest time ever... but it still doesnt feel encouraged. Imagine if every high schooler had the basic knowledge of renaissance artists, engineers, doctors and scientists.

We can all learn from Wakanda.

 

[xk0sm0sx]

You've yet to provide any evidence besides "Africa" and the existence of Trump that it is being discouraged.

What evidence do you want? I said things like government cutting budgets to things like NASA, and schools, like a quick google search gives me this http://www.cbpp.org/research/most-states-funding-schools-less-than-before-the-recession

I'm treating this as a casual discussion, I'm not going to go indepth into research as my view is not firmly held down.

 

[TestMonkey]

There is plenty evidence of an anti-academic side of society that may be growing, at least in the states,

Read a good article in university that acknowledged that academia has fallen behind in a lot of ways.

The world has moved towards teaching people via internet articles and youtube videos, there's a whole world of free information out there. Why do universities continue to insist on a conventional printed scholarship in a world where publishing is on the decline?

Scientific studies have the problem trying to always have some new claim to make, while plenty of erroneous studies remain unchallenged by repeated studies, and are published in journals that care more about content than correct content. I can see why people develop a distrust of scientific studies.

Not to mention a problem of purely academic people being unable to convey their thoughts well. My university discovered they needed to inject more English into their Science and Engineering: people just couldn't convey their research to the average person well.

The smart people need to do a smarter job.

No. Just no.

Articles and YouTube videos don't teach anything. At most they give a brief synopsis of a generalized concept. A world of unlimited free information is just chaos. You have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff which scholarship at least attempts to do.

Your second point is partially true. The rush to publish in academia does lead to lack of verification studies, as there is no money in fact checking, but if you are knowledgeable about the publication process then you can pick out which studies have validity at least. Key term to look for is "double-blind peer review process."

Your last point involves modern perceptions of intelligence. Eloquence does not imply intelligence. If I take 5 years researching a topic and then you want me to summarize my findings in a 30 second sound bite we're going to have a conflict. This is where a good science reporter should step in but there are fewer of those around these days.

Last Week Tonight had a good segment on this topic. Link.