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[diaspora]

http://kotaku.com/5991077/your-complete-guide-to-the-simcity-disaster

Sorry it was Sim City 5, not 4. The one EA made always-online.



What does this even mean?

It means people are apparently incapable of understanding how big 18 quintillions planets are.

Given that grains of sand are near identical, this comparison is maybe more apt than you realize.

Probably not how you're thinking, no. If someone visits a few million planets without seeing anything resembling the trailers they'll be worth listening to.

 

[Uthred]

How long do you think we should wait until we can reasonably conclude that something isn't in the game? I think a week should be more than enough, what about you?

As I said above, until the PC version is out which likely means we'll have some actual, you know, proof, one way or another.

 

[Des0lar]

Thats a pretty definitive statement, where's the proof?

My proof is that no one has been able to produce anything to that effect.
I will gladly retract my statements and say that I've been wrong, but I highly doubt it.

We have people already completing the game and the statement "things will get weirder the closer you get to the center" has also been debunked.

It means people are apparently incapable of understanding how big 18 quintillions planets are.

And how does that have anything to do with the discussion at hand? Are you trying the "it's all there but people just haven't found it" argument?

Given that grains of sand are near identical, this comparison is maybe more apt than you realize.

This gave me a good chuckle.

 

[aravuus]

I call out lies when I see them. There is a weird defense force for this game that thinks that people would be more kind to the game if it was from EA or something. (and I bet people would be even more harsh)

Hey fair enough, I'm not trying to call out individuals. It's just funny to see how prevalent the lie narrative seems to be with NMS vs many other games, when every lie, big or small, seems to be thread-worthy.

e: just to be clear, while lie narrative may sound like I'm not buying it, I totally agree that the way they've handled the PR has been terrible.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

As I said above, until the PC version is out which likely means we'll have some actual, you know, proof, one way or another.

All right. But lack of encounters across millions(?) of players is proof, just so you know. Not definitive proof, but proof. And based on that I am making the reasonable prediction that huge creatures aren't in the game. (and again, I'll admit if I am wrong)

 

[Savantcore]

Given that grains of sand are near identical, this comparison is maybe more apt than you realize.

Haha yeah, I was thinking that a beach of identical grains of sand probably wasn't what he meant to compare the game to.

 

[diaspora]

My proof is that no one has been able to produce anything to that effect.
I will gladly retract my statements and say that I've been wrong, but I highly doubt it.

We have people already completing the game and the statement "things will get weirder the closer you get to the center" has also been debunked.



And how does that have anything to do with the discussion at hand? Are you trying the "it's all there but people just haven't found it" argument?

I'm saying it might be but people are a special kind of absurd to definitively say it isn't.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Probably not how you're thinking, no. If someone visits a few million planets without seeing anything resembling the trailers they'll be worth listening to.

This line of argument is tiresome. It's not just that people aren't finding the specific sand worm or whatever from the trailers, it's that people are quickly running up against what appear to be limits to the creature generation, the AI, and the planet generation, and wondering if that's all there is.

Imagine there is only one creature like that, in the entire game. Is that good design? It's interesting, certainly, but if one person has a unique experience and hundreds of others have a repetitive one, is that a good game? This game is raising a lot of interesting questions about the nature of procedural generation.

What bothers me and I'm sure bothers many other people is that there are 18 quintillion planets or whatever, and the experience on all of them, for many, has been the same.

 

[Des0lar]

I'm saying it might be but people are a special kind of absurd to definitively say it isn't.

Of course there might be a special snowflake planet, where animal AI is working great and herds of deer like animals react to a large predator roaming the woods, where a spaceship fight is taking place right above with huge capital ships shooting at each other, where a squadron of fighters is just waiting for you to join them.

We are reaching "if a tree falls over in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" levels.

If it exists, but nobody finds it, it might as well not exist. There is no difference.

 

[Tovarisc]

I have replied multiple times to the "rarity" argument on this very page. Do you really think there is any sense in making them so rare that of millions of players across a long time (days, weeks, months?) only one person would see one?

That is their design decision and being super rare not same as "They aren't in the game!!!" argument.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

That is their design decision and being super rare not same as "They aren't in the game!!!" argument.

This would be beyond super rare. And you do know no encounter has been confirmed yet, right?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Of course there might be a special snowflake planet, where animal AI is working great and herds of deer like animals react to a large predator roaming the woods, where a spaceship fight is taking place right above with huge capital ships shooting at each other, where a squadron of fighters is just waiting for you to join them.

We are reaching "if a tree falls over in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" levels.

If it exists, but nobody finds it, it might as well not exist. There is no difference.

But I just said I was on a planet like that and will try Nd go back to get video...

 

[UrbanRats]

What bothers me and I'm sure bothers many other people is that there are 18 quintillion planets or whatever, and the experience on all of them, for many, has been the same.

This was already apparent from the prerelease footage, no? I haven't played the game, and it's one of the reasons i'm not that interested (personally, i would've like a more realistic approach in general, with gas giants and that kind of stuff, but i guess that would've been even worse for most people), but it seemed like every other planet was a palette swap and mildly shuffling shapes around for creatures, with not much in the way of AI complexity and all that.

Still an interesting experiment in game design though.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Probably not how you're thinking, no. If someone visits a few million planets without seeing anything resembling the trailers they'll be worth listening to.

Let's be conservative and say "few million" = 2 million planets

If you visit one new planet every minute, that's 2,000,000 minutes = 33,333 hours = 1,388 days = almost four years of non stop discovery of a planet per minute.

So there isn't a single person on the planet (in the galaxy?) whose opinion on the game, good or bad, is worth listening to?

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Let's be conservative and say "few million" = 2 million planets

If you visit one new planet every minute, that's 2,000,000 minutes = 33,333 hours = 1,388 days = almost four years of non stop discovery of a planet per minute.

So there isn't a single person on the planet (in the galaxy?) whose opinion on the game, good or bad, is worth listening to?

It's the "You can't say a game is bad unless you have played it for X hours!" argument on crack.

Spoiler

Funny how that never applies to saying a game is good.

 

[Cookie Dough]

Given that grains of sand are near identical, this comparison is maybe more apt than you realize.

But aren't you impressed big such a BIG NUMBER? Grains of sand might be near identical but big number! BIG NUMBER!

The 18 quintillion planets thing irks me a bit. It's such a meaningless number. What is more important is how varied the planet generator can be, not how many times it can be run.

 

[Uthred]

All right. But lack of encounters across millions(?) of players is proof, just so you know. Not definitive proof, but proof. And based on that I am making the reasonable prediction that huge creatures aren't in the game. (and again, I'll admit if I am wrong)

Its good to know every single person playing No Man's Sky is reading this thread, or did you personally poll them all?

 

[Sad Affleck]

Maybe those giant dinosaurs are what other players look like.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Its good to know every single person playing No Man's Sky is reading this thread, or did you personally poll them all?

What a terrible argument. There has been absolutely no claim made on-line of any huge sighting. And people are posting about the game a lot, and of course you'd want to share such an incredibly rare moment.

 

[Des0lar]

Its good to know every single person playing No Man's Sky is reading this thread, or did you personally poll them all?

The people who play the most are also the most vocal about it. Do you honestly believe they would find something amazing and not share it?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Its good to know every single person playing No Man's Sky is reading this thread, or did you personally poll them all?

What a terrible argument. There has been absolutely no claim made on-line of any huge sighting. And people are posting about the game a lot, and of course you'd want to share such an incredibly rare moment.

In the pre-release leak streams, there was a fairly big one, I recall. Not sure if it was the size of anything in the footage from trailers, but hey.

I've seen one big one, about the size of that goofy T-Rex deer.

 

[The Jackdog]

Its good to know every single person playing No Man's Sky is reading this thread, or did you personally poll them all?

do you have any idea how statistics work? sample sizes? etc? We don't need to poll every player in existence.

There are a LARGE number of players between gaf, reddit, twitch, all over. Exactly zero of them have found another player, creatures like those in the trailer, etc.

Is it definitive? No, def not. Is it more than likely a large number of things in the trailers and media were extremely misleading to consumers? Yeah, probably.

Does any of this make no mans sky a bad game? For SURE no. Its just becoming more and more likely as time goes by here that it was irresponsibly marketed and over promised.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

In the pre-release leak streams, there was a fairly big one, I recall. Not sure if it was the size of anything in the footage from trailers, but hey.

I've seen one big one, about the size of that goofy T-Rex deer.

It is quite important to know if the sighting was the size of the huge creatures in the trailer. I mean, that is what the debate is about.

 

[Jobbs]

The 18 quintillion planets universe has never been a compelling argument for me. It's just a reframing of the "procedurally generated level" which is something we've seen in hundreds of games already. Spelunky has, effectively, 18 quintillion levels. More than that. Endless. If you had every person on earth play Spelunky around the clock for 18 billion years they still wouldn't see every possible level. NMS has just framed this old idea in a compelling new way, but, really, it's not new.

You can get a sense of what types of things are going to appear on planets pretty quickly. My experience and the experience of my friends with the game has been pretty much the same from planet to planet with little variation.

It's a boring, boring, boring game IMO.

 

[Tovarisc]

This would be beyond super rare. And you do know no encounter has been confirmed yet, right?

And what is your point? That isn't proof that something does or doesn't exist being anadoctal experience and all. Hopefully datamine gives more definitive proof tomorrow.

Funny how that never applies to saying a game is good.

It should. Honeymoon period skews experiences, with bad or good game.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

In the pre-release leak streams, there was a fairly big one, I recall. Not sure if it was the size of anything in the footage from trailers, but hey.

I've seen one big one, about the size of that goofy T-Rex deer.

I've seen big ones from streams like that charging rhino. What remains to be seen is the big ol snake

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

And what is your point? That isn't proof that something does or doesn't exist being anadoctal experience and all. Hopefully datamine gives more definitive proof tomorrow.

I'm sure that datamining will reveal all. But a huge sample size is not anecdotal. Do you know what that means?

 

[Kacho]

This game is raising a lot of interesting questions about the nature of procedural generation.

I couldn't agree more. Procedural generation when done right can be a good thing but does this game benefit or suffer from it? When you see cool things in the trailer but you're chances of coming across those things are slim to none is that a good design choice? I don't think it is.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

I've seen big ones from streams like that charging rhino. What remains to be seen is the big ol snake

Comparable to this trailer creature size?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Comparable to this trailer creature size?

It didn't have the long neck. That rhino that was charging back in the Early trailers I've seen something that size but that's about it

It was like a cross between a big goat and s dinosaur,was blue and green on s toxic planet I named acidic city lol.

 

[Padinn]

What sounds appealing to me about this game is that theoretically everyone gets a unique experience. What makes me hesitant is that the common experience is repitition. Wait a minute...isn't that a summary of life? We're all just cogs in the machine!

 

[twobear]

If there's awesome, unforgettable content in the game but the sheer number of planets means that any single person is wholly unlikely to experience it, then that seems like a bit of a design misfire to me. There are ways and ways of making sure that anybody is likely, if not certain, to find one of these mega-awesome planets that sticks in your memory.

Otherwise it's asking me to be excited about the fact that someone, somewhere in the world is getting a sweet blowjob right now. Okay, that's great for them, but I'd like one too.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

We're done here.

Yes, that is exactly what I and other people are saying. You have found us out.

 

[The 8-Bit Raider]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

We're done here.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

That's not what people are saying at all. Just what the full story on what was marketed which I think is fine. Some are doing a bit much but still understandable

 

[Inviusx]

I couldn't agree more. Procedural generation when done right can be a good thing but does this game benefit or suffer from it?

Well when your game can generate 18 Quintillion planets and within 3 days people are already complaining about seeing the same types or animals over and over again, Im going to say that NMS suffers from it.

 

[Des0lar]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

I think you posted something similar in the other thread as well.

If you have to argue "why are you complaining, the game is FUN", you have lost the argument.

 

[Tovarisc]

I'm sure that datamining will reveal all. But a huge sample size is not anecdotal. Do you know what that means?

I doubt it will reveal all, depends a lot on how game is actually structured and what assets do exist. Because you or X amount people feel something is or isn't doesn't make it so. If we believe what Sean said about e.g. encountering dinosaurs being suuuuuper rare then it just means people haven't beaten the odds yet and encounter existing no matter how rare means it does exist.

 

[The Jackdog]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

did you post this just to feel the breeze as the point whips by your head

 

[OCD Guy]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

You're missing the point.

The game promised massive variety due to the large amounts of planets.

Sean himself tweeted recently that there have been 10 million different species discovered after just one day.

Yet people are running into repetition already with similar looking planets and creatures.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Let's be conservative and say "few million" = 2 million planets

If you visit one new planet every minute, that's 2,000,000 minutes = 33,333 hours = 1,388 days = almost four years of non stop discovery of a planet per minute.

So there isn't a single person on the planet (in the galaxy?) whose opinion on the game, good or bad, is worth listening to?

Of course your opinion on the game is worth listening to. But making definitive statements about what kinds of creatures are or are not in the game based on what, 3 days of it being released, is fucking silly given the size of the game and the claimed rarity of such encounters.

 

[Inviusx]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

The thought of being on a desolated planet, all alone with nothing but your ship and a giant snake/worm hunting you sounds amazing. Its like my Dune fantasies coming to life. When I saw that creature in the trailer it made me more hyped than anything else Ive seen up to this point.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

This creature Must Be This Tall for me to enjoy this game

This is a reviews/impressions thread, and I hate to say it, but this conversation is going to keep happening when we get the next batch of completed reviews where writers note that they didn't find any large creatures or whatever. This is absolutely a thing players are noticing, and whether it's because they're not there or because they're incredibly rare remains to be seen. Regardless, it's rare enough that it is raising the question - someone else brought up the "if a tree falls when no one is around to hear it" idiom earlier and it fits pretty well here.

People who are enjoying the game are just going to need to get used to this line of debate, just like they had to grit their teeth during the "what do you do in NMS?" period pre-release. Get used to people comparing the game to trailers, because ultimately, the trailers are what got people interested in this game in the first place.

There are plenty of other issues with this game keeping me from enjoying it, don't worry.

 

[IAmAnAgnostic]

Because you or X amount people feel something is or isn't doesn't make it so.

Feel something? No, find (or more accurately, not find) something. And again, if X is a large number a claim is not anecdotal. (and is in fact literally the opposite)

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Giving gameplay impressions doesn't seem to be enough they're kinda just getting ignored so people can take the piss. I'd say it's because I have no video or pics for some of the things people are complaining about but I mean no one in here has pics and vids either but rather decide something isn't or is quickly.

 

[FF Seraphim]

Holy shit this thread is huge... ah... do we have PC impressions yet?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Holy shit this thread is huge... ah... do we have PC impressions yet?

PC version doesn't launch for a few hours.

 

[Kacho]

Holy shit this thread is huge... ah... do we have PC impressions yet?

Not a thing. It's actually strange how silent HG are about the PC version.

 

[Window]

I don't think the lack of planets with interesting life forms is necessarily inherent to procedural generation. They could have implemented a system in place where they skew the probability to make 1 out of every X planet to posses more grandiose features (they probably already do something like that). This would also serve as a nice control over setting the pace of the game. The problem probably lies in the complexity needed to produce those elaborate features. With more resources during development, I think that's achievable too.