I hear ya man. I just mean that minor stuff wouldn't have been dug into as much if they were open about the big stuff. The patch outright lies about MP too, since it says the increased the odds of player collisions.
Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
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I hear ya man. I just mean that minor stuff wouldn't have been dug into as much if they were open about the big stuff. The patch outright lies about MP too, since it says the increased the odds of player collisions.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
I think we are having a problem understanding each other points. I agree that advertising and hype culture in the industry are garbage. But there is a clear difference between the advertising of NMS and the advertising of any AAA over hyped product.
Example being NMS on its steam page seems to have "misguiding" trailers, from 2 years ago, something that is bad but not uncommon (sadly) on the videogame industry. THAT alone would be enough to be a problem but due to everyone else doing it, I don't think anyone would care. The problem is that NMS isn't like the rest of the games when it came to its over hype. They clearly advertised features that aren't in the game or that no one knows if they will ever be in the game or if they already are included. This isn't a problem of the audience not understanding what the PR and hype machine of the industry are telling them and eating it but rather this are people that bought into the PR/Hype machine and the features that were used to sell them the game are no where to be found (for example I have read that Murray sold the game as having physics of celestial bodies, when I have read that no where in the game there is such a thing, nor planet rotates in their axis or their satellites around them or the planets around the sun)
So here is something completely different that what you are saying, yes PR is always deceptive, either by omission or by over selling but in this case it seems like PR basically sold you a used car for a brand new one, there is a word for that, fraud.
Timestamp at 13:10 is representative of the entire exchange.
Third guy from the left: Literally freaking out at his fantasy scenario.
Jones:"It is not exciting for me as a videogame journalist to not get answers about a game."
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
lol Sony knew exactly what they were getting when the contracts were signed for them to come on as Publisher. And if Sony does just blindly hand out money, I'm surprised their PlayStation business isn't in the dumps like most of the rest of their divisions. Sony has complete control of everything happening with NMS. From the marketing build up to release and PR... everything. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony has a muzzle on Sean right now. But either way, no matter who's fault this PR fiasco is (Sony or HG), this whole thing is shady af.
Hmm? I take it you have seen one?
Not saying there isn't but I do wonder about this one at times
I will definitely check out the game in a few months to see what gets patched in.
IDontBeatGames
Member
Yeah, they're crashed ships that you can find when landing on Planets. I've only seen one before, didn't switch it from my current ship because it had less slots.
TimFL
Member
Yeah but if I had to weight all missing features I'd easily place the solar system/planet stuff at the top of the list. That was the game changing thing they talked about 24/7.
They can always throw in P2P MP later on but the universe is set now, they can't alter their equation to account for stuff like planets closer to the sun having plants xyz and weather "extreme heat" without wiping player progress (discoveries etc).
I firmly believe this never was in the game, makes no sense to me to one day go "oh nvm we just remove it all and add a fake skybox system".
Well they removed all large buildings from the game so I'm still waiting for some proof about the large crashed ships.
EatinOlives
Member
Let's be real here, this isn't really a wide-spread issue with Indie developers. People didn't boot up Inside and immediately started to try to see each other in the game by going to the same place at the same time. People just didn't wake up one day and randomly decided that skyboxed suns were kind of a bummer in this game when they aren't in every other game.
The only variable changing here is what Hello Games said would be in the game, or at least hint at it. I really don't know where you get this idea that indie games are being held to an unrealistically high standard because that's really not the case when you look at every other 2-4 hour indie darling and problems with scope aren't the subject of countless youtube videos, Reddit interview compilations, and a bunch of GAF threads.
NullPointer
Member
Am curious to know when you think can somebody can reasonably take gameplay footage and dev comments as representative?
Whats the cut-off?
If gameplay footage and dev statements about the game aren't promises, what are?
My general rule of thumb is - once you start taking pre-order money, your media should be an accurate representation of the final product. And any statements about the game that haven't been amended or clarified should also hold true.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
We're not talking about the ships you can refit, we're talking about big crashed ships like freighters.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Assumptions much? What are your sources? You don't know the deal.
Regarding the skyboxes, isnt that just technical nitpicking? The stars you see aren't fully rendered, but represent a real location you can travel to.
Does it really matter how these are being displayed? It is still different from your average skybox with predetermined content.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I feel for people who purchased this game day 1. I'm still interested, but will definitely wait a few months to see what gets patched in.
Seriously this is the crazy part:
yep this is pretty damn accurate. I'm still enjoying the game to a degree, but not to the degree I expected.
This has basically now made me completely wary about this developer and the bullshit. If refunds were a thing on PSN I'd highly consider them.
As it is though it's a game I can still enjoy, just extremely disappointing. Not even to the degree of Molyneux with Fable, where even if much was promised it still ended up being an amazing rpg.
With this a lot was promised and it ended up being fairly ok, a good time waster if you have nothing better to play I guess.
How does this even make sense?
It's more like DC or Marvel fans suing because the comic has 15 instead of the promised 20 pages
ultrazilla
Gold Member
So GAF, can we sum up nicely what the latest is on plans from Hello/Sean in terms of getting the game he sold us to the points he sold the game to us on?
People's sympathy is limited when they're selling the game for the same amount that much larger studios sell their games at.
they said a couple week's back they'd be patching the game with no plans to sell dlc then walked the dlc part back so who knows
Just double checked, can't find where, I swear I've seen someone say they did here on Gaf. This is the only one point on my list I'm not 100% sure, but nobody should be sure either way on this given the size of the universe and the possible rarity. #shrug.
Everything else we have either direct accounts (including mine) or photos.
Just an FYI, I live in NA and after reading that some person asked for a refund via live chat I decided to try my luck to see if I could have one. I said that I would like my money put back in my account as it wasn't what was advertised and keep crashing like an other poster told and lo and behold he accepted right away. Of course it was "a one time deal as a gesture of goodwill", etc. But it gots me my money back.
So if you really want a refund even if it's not normally accepted, you could always try! Worked for me.
I don't doubt it exists SOMEWHERE considering finding a planet with vortex cubes and aquaspheres ir pretty friggen rare
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
I work in the videogame industry. Sony knew what they were getting. When talks started Sony surely visited Hello Games and combed through ever little detail of the product they were getting. And the minute that publishing contract was signed Sony had production staff involved monitoring the development constantly at the very least. They also had their own QA staff involved in the project, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lent development support. Sony does have a whole division that exists to lend production/tech support to the studio's involved in publishing deals with them. You clearly don't know how the publishing business works. Hell, this isn't a videogame industry specific thing. No huge business worth anything has got where they were by purchasing blind promises. I love this naïve Sony angle though because of the ridiculousness. Huge corporations care about one thing: the bottom line. Money.
Yes, Sony is in control of everything on the NMS project.
It does get a bit tiring hearing that tbh. That's fine they're a 10 person studio but if they can't deliver everything they promised don't promise it or be open about it if the team is having issues.
I'd be more sympathetic if they came out and said "hey we can't launch with this or that right away with the resources we have but we will work to get them in post launch" I'd be ok with that. From there as a consumer you could make a better decision on when to purchase.
I think that's a big part of the issue here. The final game we got imo looks on par for a small studio of their size and to me it's about what I would expect. What they showed off is not even close to how it turned out however.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
When they update the game to include base building and freighters; I bet at that point you'll see the crashed freighters on planets, since we are able to pilot them.
BRocknRolla
Member
You appear to have mods installed, correct? (Seems recolored and I don't see any vignetting.)
"No vignette"and no scanline mods, and the 2.0 resolution multiplier mod (which I could have achieved with DSR just fine as well) but otherwise no mods.
No reshading mods though, the vanilla game without the filters.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
You do not know the specifics of the deal.
TheCanisDirus
Member
Dreams-Visions
Member
I feel for people who purchased this game day 1. I'm still interested, but will definitely wait a few months to see what gets patched in.
Seriously this is the crazy part:
Damn, this isn't what I was expecting at all. Particularly from the Sentinels. I very specifically remember those being billed as a significant threat to you and your stay on a given planet, should you overstay your welcome. There being no incentive to land on more hostile planets is just sort of sad.
I...I just...sorry bros. Pretty disappointing product considering what was expected. Moreso because they never took the time to reset out expectations. Falling short of expectations is fine. Not revealing that fact until people have spent their hard-earned dollars is not.
mods, right?
Edit: See you answered above. The missing scan lines give it away.
Yup, I think the scanlines, and the weird instagram like filter they put over the game makes the game look worse instead of enchancing it. I get why they did it. I just don't think it does the game any favors.
You do know Sony isn't publishing even the PS4 version, right?
Edit:
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/no-mans-sky-ps4/
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
Nope, I don't. I've just worked with plenty of publishers and it's all the same. But you apparently know absolutely nothing about how business works and decided to bank on and their lawyers being rather stupid with the publishing contracts they provide... You're grasping really hard to defend this.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
For someone working in the industry, you seem surprisingly unaware of what the No Man's Sky deal actually is.
You also don't seem to know that no man's sky was not published by Sony
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Ah, an 'expert'. Or not with those kinds of logic leaps and complete misunderstanding of the indie publishing biz. Sony also once upon a time was involved with RIME coming to PS4. Couple of tradeshows, blogs, deals. Ultimately it was revealed to be a scam project and Sony backed out hardcore.
So no, they don't send over "people" to comb through everything like some forensics unit to check everythings legit. Sometimes they come a cropper with false promises, but unlike RIME, NMS was actually a game and not complete CGI trickery.
Have you received death threats over your work? As I said, technically it's easy to be that transparent, but on a social level, it's not. I don't need people sending me death threats over the fact that I cut a puzzle or something from my own damn game.
My counterargument:
1) Movie trailers sometimes have scenes in them that aren't in the final movie
2) Games are insanely more interconnected than movies, especially a game like NMS. A giant sand worm might seem like a great idea 2 years ago or whatever. But you might find that it tanks the framerate in certain areas on PS4, messes with the design in ways you don't like, etc, and this took a while to find out, but you need to cut it. I agree that some features like multiplayer being cut do need to be communicated by the devs, but the extent of specific nitpicking is ridiculous. I don't think something like "rivers don't technically flow anymore" or "animals don't drink from water anymore" needs to be communicated to the public. How specific are we going to get? Does every single change from what we publicly saw need to be communicated? They frequently talked about color pallete and how they frequently tweaked the overall possible colors in the game, does that need to be covered by HG? "Red isn't as likely to show up in planets with green". How specific do they need to get for you to be satisfied? Like I've said before, do you just want their internal changelog?
The bottom line for me is that the trailers sold me "the exploration part of minecraft in space". What I'm playing is "the exploration part of minecraft in space". The specifics, aside from large features like multiplayer, aren't that important, I don't think.
Just an FYI, I live in NA and after reading that some person asked for a refund via live chat I decided to try my luck to see if I could have one. I said that I would like my money put back in my account as it wasn't what was advertised and keep crashing like an other poster told and lo and behold he accepted right away. Of course it was "a one time deal as a gesture of goodwill", etc. But it gots me my money back.
So if you really want a refund even if it's not normally accepted, you could always try! Worked for me.
Damn you were lucky.
The game locked my system up on Sunday and bricked the hard drive. So far I've sent numerous emails to Sony and Hello Games, contacted them by phone as well yet they are still giving me the run around quoting "policy" bullshit for not refunding me.
fastford58
Member
Many of those features seem pretty minor. I'm playing and enjoying it and it seems to be as complete as I expected.
I have only just awakened to the NMS witch hunt. It's a remarkable thing.
I have only just awakened to the NMS witch hunt. It's a remarkable thing.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
So here's the situation.
You need to cut something for a game that you talked about/promised earlier.
You can:
A) Be upfront about the situation before the game's release and get the death threats of Internet douchebags.
Or
B) Conceal the changes in scope until after the game launches and get the ire of psychologically balanced consumers and the death threats of Internet douchebags.
Which would you choose?
Any Questions
Member
Bethesda Fallout 4 lies
Trick question. Both result in death threats. But the answer is A since only an asshole would choose B.
Edit: woops, I misunderstood B at first.
If I was a known name, I would go with option C, which is what Valve and the Limbo devs do. Never say anything until right before your game is out. I can't do that since I'm not a known name yet, so I have to go with A.
Also, even though with both options you get death threats, with A, you likely get more death threats than C.
Too bad B was chosen.
Th3BranMan92
Member
I feel as I've been a defender for Hello Games throughout this entire ordeal, but after seeing the official product page on PSN, my opinion has been swayed.
None of these screenshots are from the build that was released to players aside from the space station shot and the trading post shot; yet these are being used as promotional material...
Sandy beaches (might exist), non-hostile mech sentinels, multiple (as in more than 2-3) freighters engaged in a space battle, Sand worms. All gone. What happened??!
Led_Zeppelin
Member
And asshole and Sean Murray and HG. Remember they are good guys in all of this and never made a mistake and is all the blame of fans from expecting too much.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Ding ding.
Some internet jerkasses will almost inevitably be sending you death threats if your game is a hyped enough, big enough title. People suck.
It doesn't make sense to further conceal details from normal human beings just to stave off those threats. Hell, maybe if you make a nice enough explanation/apology video/PR piece, the jerkasses will have their cold, empty hearts warmed and not send so many threats.
Concealing the information isn't really a solution and just fans the flames.
A shame indeed.
That's an alright option if your name has the clout and your game has the elements to justify it (Inside for example definitely did).