Concealing information entirely is. That is the lesson learned here. Never say anything about your game before it is released. That's not actually the lesson I'm going to take from it personally, because I want to change how people understand game dev by being open about it (which is why I'm in this thread half-defending HG in the first place), but that's what it sends to a lot of people.
Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
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Concealing information entirely is. That is the lesson learned here. Never say anything about your game before it is released. That's not actually the lesson I'm going to take from it personally, because I want to change how people understand game dev by being open about it (which is why I'm in this thread half-defending HG in the first place), but that's what it sends to a lot of people.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Well yes, the "viable" options really are A) Be completely transparent from announcement through release (and even through further patches) or B) Conceal everything until the day of release.
And Fallout 3 and Skyrim.
The problem is, being entirely open about it makes you a much bigger target than just releasing a game. Look at anything about the game development process, for example.
Double Fine documentary: Tim Shafer might be kind of bad with money? Conspiracy! Fig is a scam, double fine is a scam company running on good feelings!
Indie Game the Movie: Ugh Phil Fish is a jerk, Jon Blow is pretentious, and Edmund and Tommy are assholes!
Blizzard has a tiny sliver of public facing iteration with a Tracer pose change: Wow, I can't believe Blizzard caved to demands of random internet people! Change it back!
Name a public-facing game development thing that shows the process that doesn't involve harassment of the people involved. I can't think of one.
I think it's a reasonable thing to want players to understand iteration rather than accepting harassment as part of the job.
Krappadizzle
Member
I'm just surprised SomTervo is here agreeing with some of the complaints. Glad to see that you can separate your love for the game and are able to see the other side.
Or only talk about locked down features like 90% of the rest of the industry.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'm not really sure what those examples have to do with the current situation.
I think it's a reasonable thing to want developers to understand honesty and not misrepresenting their game rather than accepting the current paradigm of overpromising and misleading consumers.
Also a good option.
Clearly state, these features ARE in the game, we are working on seeing IF we can put these other features in.
Dinosaur Coloring Book
Banned
Those image look good until you view them at full size.
The funny thing is that the asteroid landing was said to already be in the game when he was interviewed at the time. So it didn't really help that in the end, it doesn't show up.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
Has anyone encountered giant enemy crabs in this game?
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
Ugh, internet went out. Anyway...
Yes, lets not be anal about this. Sony is distributing, marketing and running PR for NMS as a console exclusive. They have control over this product and a huge stake in how it performs. They didn't front this money on blind promises. That's just such a ridiculous defense for any company.
I've encountered medium sized enemy crab spider things
If I were developing a game I would never reveal a major feature of my game until I could demonstrate a reasonably complete barebones implementation of said feature in what I intend to be the finished product, whether it be through video or a demo. So basically how Nintendo handles all of their PR nowadays.
It kills me looking at it in hindsight (I didn't follow the game's development very closely as it was happening) that HG managed to say all sorts of amazing things about what their game is and what it was trying to be and answering probing questions with vague almost-promises while there was little actual footage and demonstrations of what their game is by comparison. Do some people really not see a problem with that?
It kills me looking at it in hindsight (I didn't follow the game's development very closely as it was happening) that HG managed to say all sorts of amazing things about what their game is and what it was trying to be and answering probing questions with vague almost-promises while there was little actual footage and demonstrations of what their game is by comparison. Do some people really not see a problem with that?
They did front the money for blind promises that was known as RIME a while back. They dropped it though. I don't think they control everything in NMS, especially when they couldn't control RIME's development when they were actually their publisher
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Same here.
All the things missing can easily be updated via a patch.
I think all those things were features that they wanted to include in the game, but due to delays and deadlines, they figured they would just patch them in later - which I'm totally fine with.
However, they should have tempered expectations so that we knew what we were getting and that some features would be added later on down the line. That's the honest way of doing things.
Yes, that's called early access
The thing is that HG seems to have a different definition of major feature than a lot of others. Multiplayer? Yes, major feature, they shouldn't have lied. Rivers don't technically have a flow? That's getting nitpicky, thousands of changes at that scale are made in game dev. How specific do you want them to get? What's your definition of major feature?
And even if you had a version of a thing implemented, there are many many reasons you might need to cut it down the line. "Killing your babies" is a common saying in game dev
BleedOrange
Banned
You have to be out of your mind to think Sony didn't have it's hands ALL over NMS. They marketed it harder than some of their own first-party IP. They clearly wanted it to be something other than what it is.
You also have to be out of your mind to think that Sean Murray and Hello Games holds no responsibility for how the game ended up.
They surely had a heavier hand in how the game ended up and the removed features.
Only 1 and I attacked its weak spot for massive damage.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
We don't even know if it is console exclusive
You would think Sony would be advertising it as such if it was, at least on the box.Perhaps the console exclusive tag will appear on the box on a future update.....
Well No Man's Sky primary defining feature was a system that models the physics of planetary bodies on a galactic scale with all features and characteristics of those bodies derived from those physical laws, letting you explore what was supposed to be an organically generated set of worlds at your leisure. Sean went to great lengths talking about how "faked" games are in how they simulate the real world and how their product wouldn't be like that.
Turns out the "universe" in No Man's Sky is completely faked. So much for the game's core defining characteristic!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
🤔
That game is another big fail. No game really made, and full of promise that went no where.
Jacksinthe
Banned
BleedOrange
Banned
Oh for sure, they're both culpable.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Sure. But it's not like the timelines are very divergent for the games. Rime entered the public sphere in August 2013 and NMS entered it at the end of 2013 (and more thoroughly in 2014).
I think in fairness to people, this was a new kind of persona for them.
Moly, Howard, they're AAA figures with pretty well known personas. People kind of expect this kind of shit from the Ubisofts and EAs of the world.
Sean Murray came in, a shy, bashful, "humble," barefoot weirdo nerd from a small indie studio. And people bought into that image and thought he was sell straight truth.
It's a lesson learned that indies aren't immune from overpromising though.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Again where has it been proven that Sony had anything to do with this other then marketing. I have serious doubts this is anything more then a timed exclusive. Don't worry Xbox fans you will have your chance to complain this game soon enough.
Pestilence11
Member
Agreed. It should've been the very first thing they got working for a space game with "planet sized planets" in 2016.
You think Sony would front money for a non exclusive? Show me the receipts
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Yeah, I'm not really sympathetic to the comment that the "river" critique is a nitpick.
Sean and Hello Games sold the game on having some kind of revolutionary tech that was going to be doing next-gen procedural stuff. And the game is cool, and the scope of 18 bajillionmillion planets is impressive, but I don't think the tech is so revolutionary that he had the leverage to go around poopooing how fake other games are.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
All the big three pay for timed exclusives.... Why wouldnt they put it on the box if it was exclusive.
Because it's not, it's on pc and started as a pc game.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Why are you going after me? You do not know me.
I am not grasping at anything, I am just saying that you do not know the specifics of the deal, or Sony's level of involvement in this particular relationship.
Who is defending? Of course Sony didn't give HG a blank cheque. What does that have to do with anything? You made assumptions about Sony's involvement.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't disagree necessarily although I do think there's the possibility for interesting world generation. Space Engine isn't perfect software, but it's doing pretty consistently interesting procedural generation to my eyes. Anyhow, that's why the game probably needed a deeper hook like more crafting, base building, ship building, etc.
EatinOlives
Member
Wait, what?? Do you have a link for this? This is the first time reading about this, I'm supper bummed if true
BleedOrange
Banned
I would say its 'unreal' how good he predicted it and/or saw the wool being pulled over peoples eyes, but, honestly, he was just being a normal, discerning consumer, and a good journalist at that.
That the hypetard people he was talking to look like absolute assholes now is just icing on the cake.
Saint of Killers
Member
My guess: they couldn't delay it any longer (and are now working their arses off to deliver the game they promised. I hope) and released it in a half finished state.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Happens all the time games will be on pc, and still have a console exclusive tag. Can you point me to any article tat states this exclusive...
Anyway I'm about twenty hrs in the game(ps4) and enjoy it for what it is
Have to play in short burst like most survial games. I do feel after you get pass the awesomeness of taking off from a planet your are stuck with a survival game that other games have done better. My personal favorite is the long dark, which happens to be in early access.
Vegetable Lasagna
Member
Well, Sony has some issues to work out then. Yikes.