Several French cities ban Burkinis on beaches, citing "public order" concerns

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shinobi602 said:
"Take your damn clothes off!" That beach photo is making my blood boil. What the fucking shit are you doing France?

Meanwhile in Scotland...

cwqoks7.png


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34203011
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Those are so cool love the uniform pattern integration into the hijab.
 
shinobi602 said:
"Take your damn clothes off!" That beach photo is making my blood boil. What the fucking shit are you doing France?

Meanwhile in Scotland...

cwqoks7.png


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34203011
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Well, Scotland > The rest of the world :P

Biased Scot in the house

We just need to make sure we annex off the rest of the UK not to be dragged out of the EU and have assholes like Farage prancing around "representing" our country.

To be fair with this though I believe London offered it first? Still though, too many Brexiteer folk in England.

Baybars said:
Interesting. Didn't realise there is a concerted effort to get muslim women to join the Police force in scotland.
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The Scottish Police Muslim Association (SPMA), an organisation set up in 2010 to build closer ties with muslim communities, welcomed the statement from Police Scotland.

Fahad Bashir, chair of the SPMA, said: "This is a positive step in the right direction, and I am delighted that Police Scotland is taking productive steps in order to ensure that our organisation is seen to be inclusive and represents the diverse communities that we serve across Scotland.

"No doubt this will encourage more women from Muslim and minority ethnic backgrounds to join Police Scotland."

The news comes following authorities in several French towns implementing bans on the burkini, which covers the body and head, citing concerns about 'religious clothing' in the wake of recent terrorist killings in the country.
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A report by the Scottish Police Authority (SPA) earlier this year showed there were 4,809 applications to join Police Scotland in 2015 and 2016, of which 127 or 2.6 per cent were from ethnic backgrounds.

It read: "Based on these figures, it is clear to see the challenge Police Scotland faces. If the black and minority ethnic groups (BME) national average of four per cent is to be met within the organisation, an additional 650 BME recruits are required across all areas of the business.

"Considering current application trends, this would appear to be unachievable."
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https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...ent-controversy-grows-over-french-burkini-ban
 
Audioboxer said:
Well, Scotland > The rest of the world :P

Biased Scot in the house

We just need to make sure we annex off the rest of the UK not to be dragged out of the EU and have assholes like Farage prancing around "representing" our country.

To be fair with this though I believe London offered it first? Still though, too many Brexiteer folk in England.







https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...ent-controversy-grows-over-french-burkini-ban
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I bet you wish now you'd left the UK so that you wouldn't have been part of all this Brexit nonsense.
 
Htown said:
You sound like you learned everything you know about democracy from Kim Jong Un.
Click to expand...

know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
 
The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

what
 
The Doc said:
i'm totally ok with extending the ban to the nuns' coverings too.
They certainly aren't less misogynistic than the hijab.
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What about the robes and clothes the Catholic Church requires priests and monks to wear? Are those misandristic?
 
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...ch-fashion-police-fining-women-burkinis.shtml

the expected double down

Guillaume Champeau from the excellent French site Numerama alerts me to the news that the deputy mayor of Nice, Christian Estrosi is threatening to sue those who share these images over social media. Yup, France, a country that claims to pride itself on freedom is not just telling women that they can't cover themselves up too much on the beach, but that it's also illegal to report on the police following through on that.
Click to expand...
 
I mean, you can't really blame France for being twitchy at the moment. But damn if this focus isn't mis-placed.
 
The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

Or...

just outlawing what is already illegal and allowing what is already legal ?
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/24/opinion/when-a-swimsuit-is-a-security-threat.html?ref=opinion&comments&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=874748CFC31AA43F2A1748330EFBF043&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion#commentsContainer

The comments are "but but Saudia Arabia!" I didn't know I choose the direction of my country based on what others do.

This one is a gem:

Europe's humanist tradition is extremely precious and deserves protection. Everyone can freely worship under whatever superstition they choose, but it's important to recognize that Europe's humanist society is under threat.

That threat comes in the form of bloody religious madness, whose most prominent symbols include the burka and its derivatives. Not all Muslim women who wear the burka are forced to do so, but most women who lack personal freedom and agency are forced to wear it.

The burkini is a symbol of intolerance so contrary to Europe's humanist tradition, and so central to the purpose of those who seek to destroy that tradition, that it is justifiably banned. Freedom of expression is not unlimited, neither in Europe nor in the US, nor should it be.

Women who benefit from all that Europe's humanist tradition provides, can make a minor sartorial concession in the exercise of their superstitions, in order to help protect, and show their commitment to, the society in which they chose to live.
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Europe has humanist tradition. No shoving beliefs down other people's throats!
 
The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

It is a bathing suit!

Fucking hell

krang said:
I mean, you can't really blame France for being twitchy at the moment. But damn if this focus isn't mis-placed.
Click to expand...

About bathing suits?

Like hell I can't
 
pgtl_10 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/24/opinion/when-a-swimsuit-is-a-security-threat.html?ref=opinion&comments&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&gwh=874748CFC31AA43F2A1748330EFBF043&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion#commentsContainer

The comments are "but but Saudia Arabia!" I didn't know I choose the direction of my country based on what others do.

This one is a gem:



Europe has humanist tradition. No shoving beliefs down other people's throats!
Click to expand...

I like how he made sure to phrase it as "under whatever superstition they choose."

Just to drive home the overall tone.
 
Rest said:
I bet you wish now you'd left the UK so that you wouldn't have been part of all this Brexit nonsense.
Click to expand...

I mean I was disappointed because I was pro-independence in 2014, but the Brexit thing is a whole different ball game of insanity.

Right now if I were given the choice of independence in the next 2 years or the UK back in the EU and Brexit "never happened", I'd probably have to chose the UK back in the EU. It's just that shitty a thing for too many people for me to care in principal more about Scottish independence. I don't hate my English brothers enough just to let them all burn if we could save them LOL.

Plus, Scotland is going to vote for independence at some point anyway :P I'd be young enough to wait a bit longer than within the next 2~4 years. It just so happens all of this Brexit nonsense will probably bring about the breakup of the UK as an inevitability.
 
pgtl_10 said:
Did the French use to respect the culture of those they colonized?
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Well, considering they didn't even want to grant independence to their colonies post-ww2 and had to be kicked out in two wars, I'd say they have blood on their hands rather than respect for those cultures.

The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

I love this
 
pgtl_10 said:
Did the French use to respect the culture of those they colonized?
Click to expand...

The same French that taught in all its schools about "Our ancestor the Gauls"?
Bahahahahahahah, France NEVER EVER even tried to begin to act like they thought they could care.
It is the same country that not even 10 years ago tried to enshrine into law that "there were good things in colonialism and it's the only thing that should be taught".
This is just another example of the worst aspect of the French savior complex where every other differing culture is either wrong (like say english, prussian and co) or not enlightened enough to not know what's good for them (pretty much everything that's not european...and the jury is still out on Spain, Italy and anything east of Germany).

The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

You act like France didn't take part in slavery.
Look up how cities like Nantes, Saint Nazaire, Bordeaux made their fortunes.
e: heck seriously monarchy in France is all about free labor and inequality enshrined into law.
Monarchy is also Catholic and unless someone reinstated Nantes's edit since Louis XIV freedom of religion is hardly a thing in France under a King.
 
The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...

Come again? You're argument gets dismantled with reason and logic and this is your response.
 
The Doc said:
know what? You talked me into it. Let's switch the damn law over to some religious commandments.
Human sacrifice? Fine. Great. After all , them victims agree to the whole thing. Let them be. Humiliation? Slavery? Since it doesn't bother me directly , i won't give a fuck.
We good, now?

i'm done with this
Click to expand...
Total meltdown. The choice isnt binary.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
Wait, how and why did the photographer take the first pic? (before the police was even there)
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Maybe someone argue with her before and warn her that the police will come to remove her "burkini".
She look somewhat pissed off in the photo.

Or maybe the police is closeby since it's a closer shot.

Or maybe it's a muslim conspiracy.
 
Audioboxer said:
Well, Scotland > The rest of the world :P
To be fair with this though I believe London offered it first? Still though, too many Brexiteer folk in England.
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Yes, the stock picture even shows them standing in front of New Scotland Yard, which is in London.

The article says the metropolitan police have allowed the hijab for 10 years as part of its uniform.
 
Shadowheart said:
Really?
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Understandable, as there is no justice going on there, just harassment.

It wouldn't be 'something something' if you knew why religion covers women.
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Stop it. I'm an unapologetic critic of Islam, but there's no justification for this stupid law. That woman was minding her own business and not harming anyone. Police have no business harassing her and forcing her to undress. Jesus fucking christ.
 
Shadowheart said:
Really?




Stop. I got a six pack from laughing at these. I need to catch a breath.


It wouldn't be 'something something' if you knew why religion covers women.
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How does this law
A) Help women
B) Stop terrorism


Go ahead explain since you think opposing this law is a laughable position
 
Shadowheart said:
It wouldn't be 'something something' if you knew why religion covers women.
Click to expand...

Why don't you enlighten everyone as to what you have seemingly figured out.

I swear to God, "islam is mysionistic" is peoples equivalent of "he was no angel" in how irrelevant that point is to the situation at hand. What the fuck does this have to do with harassing a woman at the beach bothering no one?
 
So the human rights fight in the western world nowadays is against the bathroom and beach police.

I wonder what will be next brilliant idea of the right.
 
Jumeira said:
Come again? You're argument gets dismantled with reason and logic and this is your response.
Click to expand...


Reason and logic.

Their argument: "you shall wear what you want"
My argument: "if this involve gender discrimination , you can't"
Them : "but muslim women are not forced to wear their coverings , they want to"
Me: "equality of human dignity between men and women comes first. into a civilized country any misogynitic conduct shouldn't be allowed , even if self-inflicted , because it infringes the basis of the democracy itself"
Them: "but those are just swimsuits!"
Me: "no , they are meant to fulfill the comendments of the shari'a , which are clearly misgynistic"
Them " let them women wear what they want , praise jesus! Jesus is the answer!"

Reason and logic.
 
The Doc said:
Reason and logic.

Their argument: "you shall wear what you want"
My argument: "if this involve gender discrimination , you can't"
Them : "but muslim women are not forced to wear their coverings , they want to"
Me: "equality of human dignity between men and women comes first. into a civilized country any misogynitic conduct shouldn't be allowed , even if self-inflicted , because it infringes the basis of the democracy itself"
Them: "but those are just swimsuits!"
Me: "no , they are meant to fulfill the comendments of the shari'a , which are clearly misgynistic"
Them " let them women wear what they want , praise jesus! Jesus is the answer!"

Reason and logic.
Click to expand...
Again, what you're saying is that the solution to oppression is an alternate oppression.
 
The Doc said:
Reason and logic.

Their argument: "you shall wear what you want"
My argument: "if this involve gender discrimination , you can't"
Them : "but muslim women are not forced to wear their coverings , they want to"
Me: "equality of human dignity between men and women comes first. into a civilized country any misogynitic conduct shouldn't be allowed , even if self-inflicted , because it infringes the basis of the democracy itself"
Them: "but those are just swimsuits!"
Me: "no , they are meant to fulfill the comendments of the shari'a , which are clearly misgynistic"
Them " let them women wear what they want , praise jesus! Jesus is the answer!"

Reason and logic.
Click to expand...
Lmao you literally went full euphoric.
 
The Doc said:
Reason and logic.

Their argument: "you shall wear what you want"
My argument: "if this involve gender discrimination , you can't"
Them : "but muslim women are not forced to wear their coverings , they want to"
Me: "equality of human dignity between men and women comes first. into a civilized country any misogynitic conduct shouldn't be allowed , even if self-inflicted , because it infringes the basis of the democracy itself"
Them: "but those are just swimsuits!"
Me: "no , they are meant to fulfill the comendments of the shari'a , which are clearly misgynistic"
Them " let them women wear what they want , praise jesus! Jesus is the answer!"

Reason and logic.
Click to expand...
What? did you read the same thread I did?
 
Rest said:
Again, what you're saying is that the solution to oppression is an alternate oppression.
Click to expand...

No i'm sayin that we have a clear conflict between rights , and we have to choose. our choice must not be guided by the status quo.
Which right comes first? Equality between men and women or freedom of religion? For me its no brainer. And , like me , also for who settled the order of the articles of the UDHR.
 
The Doc said:
Reason and logic.

Their argument: "you shall wear what you want"
My argument: "if this involve gender discrimination , you can't"
Them : "but muslim women are not forced to wear their coverings , they want to"
Me: "equality of human dignity between men and women comes first. into a civilized country any misogynitic conduct shouldn't be allowed , even if self-inflicted , because it infringes the basis of the democracy itself"
Them: "but those are just swimsuits!"
Me: "no , they are meant to fulfill the comendments of the shari'a , which are clearly misgynistic"
Them " let them women wear what they want , praise jesus! Jesus is the answer!"

Reason and logic.
Click to expand...

So high heels and miniskirt should be ban? Since men don't wear it.
And monokini should be enforced in the beach too i guess, since men are not covering their breast neither.

Nothing to do with reason and logic, rather bigotry and ethnocentrism.
 
gutter_trash said:
When in Rome.

The French fought for 200 years to separate Church and State. Pre-revolution France was held in the clutches of the monarchy + clergy

It is easy to slam the French but secularism is a core pillar of their Republic
Click to expand...



Thing is, secularism is a joke excuse in that case. It's more about identity.
 
The Doc said:
No i'm sayin that we have a clear conflict between rights , and we have to choose. our choice must not be guided by the status quo.
Which right comes first? Equality between men and women or freedom of religion? For me its no brainer. And , like me , also for who settled the order of the articles of the UDHR.
Click to expand...

Again, people in free societies get to choose their own religion, no one can choose one for them. Once someone has joined a religion, no one can tell them how to interpret it, or how much of it to apply to their own life. Regardless of their religion, people in free societies still choose their own clothing.

You say there is a conflict of rights, and maybe you're right, but it's not the conflict that you think. The real conflict here is between the right of every individual to make their own choices, and the "right" of the majority to oppress minorities by taking away their actual rights.
 
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