firehawk12
Subete no aware
I wish you could skip all of the boring climbing sequences. You don't actually DO anything during those and they take so long.
Halfway through Uncharted 4. Does this game pick up at all?
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
???
It's the other way around for me. Starts great with lots of things happening, and then chapters, I dunno exactly, 7-15 thereabouts, absolutely nothing of note happens, before it becomes interesting again.
I love the notion of downtime in games, but it should be created to reflect on important story beats that preceded it or are going to happen later. For a too large part of the game there's a repetition of action sequences and slow climbing sessions, but there's nothing to reflect on during the climbing sessions, because the story doesn't meaningfully progress, so it's just tedium.
Diprosalic
Banned
I have finished it. I've written extensive breakdowns multiple times on this forum, i'll copy and paste them in later when i'm not on my mobile phone. Had no interest writing it again for the x time.
Beerman462
Member
Yeah read my other post.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
UC4 is a great game that I have no desire to ever play again. It's very much an "Event" game. Like alot of Sony exclusives, once you go through it oncee, there isn't much compelling you to go through it again.
Even if I did want to, it's fucking stupid as fuck to lock skins to difficulties.
Even if I did want to, it's fucking stupid as fuck to lock skins to difficulties.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Promised myself I would stay out of Uncharted threads, but I'm bored so here we go.
The more I think about UC4 the more disappointing it gets, and the more disappointed I am with Naughty Dog and their approach. I'm not going to call Uncharted 4 a disaster, or say that it's the worst game in the series- I think they were going for a very particular style with Uncharted 4, and they've probably accomplished it. A particular style that's a response to complaints about the genre leanings of the first 3 games. A particular style that's a response to the response of The Last of Us: Left Behind. A particular style that goes deeper into grounded character building, and in turn attempts to ground the pacing for (MUCH) longer stretches as some kind of actualization of story through gameplay.
The problem is that I found this particular style to be boring, almost hilariously so when I finished the game and looked back on the chapter select. The non-combat sections are so uneventful. Sure the environments are beautiful, and how they're used as a way of subtly displaying where the narrative sits is cool, but there are precisely 2 moments, totaling maybe 45 seconds of game time, where a more unique platforming challenge is used in a high energy way, where a quick succession of all the moves and tools available created a kind of mini set-piece, a highlight to break up the monotony. Other than those, it's brain dead. And sure, you could throw this criticism back at the first 3 games, and you'd be right, but those games didn't shy away from the fact that they were rollercoaster third person shooters. Platfoming was a cooldown from the meat of the game, that being fairly lengthy high energy action scenes. UC4 has no meat. Or rather, UC4 attempts to make everything meat, and in doing so ends up with a bunch of bread. Beautiful bread, but still.....bread. And bread gets dry after a while.
You can absolutely see how they got here, and it's a course that runs directly through The Last of Us, but the DLC to that game is the germ from where Uncharted 4 came. The Last of Us is actually much more tense and high energy for longer stretches, throwing in a number of different encounters just for the sake of encounters, because that's a game that, after the opening hour, is paced on the highs and lows of tension and intensity. Sure once in a while you'll get a pacing beat that relies solely on whatever narrative checkpoint you just hit, but even those feel more in concert with the gameplay pacing than Uncharted 4. No, UC4 isn't "The Last of Uncharted."
What it is, is "Uncharted: Left Behind."
What they started pushing even more with Left Behind was game design where the "whole" stands on a level playing field. That means that combat pacing beats and/or set-pieces aren't the dominant factor in pacing anymore. Now, each of these "interactive story moments" is a pacing beat as important as any encounter, as any set-piece. There are no more classic action game lows. Everything becomes a bigger part of the experience. You can see this in how much time and energy they've spent in fleshing out these interactive story moments, from the picture booth and costume store in Left Behind, to Drake's attic and the flashbacks in UC4. No longer is "experiencing the story" just pushing forward through dialogue, but instead you're completely dropped into the story, including all the mundane parts of it, just to prove a point.
Ok, so that's fine, right? A more fleshed out experience where you control more of the game. Well..... it would be fine except for this lingering vibe that Naughty Dog has listened to the criticism of Uncharted being a shooter. In removing the classic action game lows, they've also gone away from the more traditional highs, slashing enemy numbers in an attempt to make combat feel more logical within the game's pacing. "You only encounter enemies when the story needs it" is a common sentiment here. Ok, so, again, that's fine right? Game design is maturing, devs gotta try different things. Well...... it would be fine if the platforming sections were anywhere near engaging, or if they were trying some big and crazy ideas with the puzzles, and now I'm starting to loop around back to my initial complaint.
So this ramble is my take away from Uncharted 4. I get what they're doing, but I don't like the way it's put together. I miss the stretches of classic action shooter game design, where combat ideas are introduced and fleshed out in a sequence rather than abandoned for more walk + talk, and numerous moments of downtime where you're left to stew in whatever the last cutscene or interactive story moment was. Where momentum is built and retained for long stretches. Where you can feel each sequence building toward the next all in service for some big flashy period on a sentence, rather than the awkward start and stop fits we see in Uncharted 4. If they can find a way to marry long action scenes with this new approach I'd probably love it, much in the way I love Wolfenstein: The New Order even with its lengthy chunks of non-shooter gameplay, but Uncharted 4 is not that game.
This and No Man's Sky a few months apart though....woof.
Ok, this is the last time, I promise.
The more I think about UC4 the more disappointing it gets, and the more disappointed I am with Naughty Dog and their approach. I'm not going to call Uncharted 4 a disaster, or say that it's the worst game in the series- I think they were going for a very particular style with Uncharted 4, and they've probably accomplished it. A particular style that's a response to complaints about the genre leanings of the first 3 games. A particular style that's a response to the response of The Last of Us: Left Behind. A particular style that goes deeper into grounded character building, and in turn attempts to ground the pacing for (MUCH) longer stretches as some kind of actualization of story through gameplay.
The problem is that I found this particular style to be boring, almost hilariously so when I finished the game and looked back on the chapter select. The non-combat sections are so uneventful. Sure the environments are beautiful, and how they're used as a way of subtly displaying where the narrative sits is cool, but there are precisely 2 moments, totaling maybe 45 seconds of game time, where a more unique platforming challenge is used in a high energy way, where a quick succession of all the moves and tools available created a kind of mini set-piece, a highlight to break up the monotony. Other than those, it's brain dead. And sure, you could throw this criticism back at the first 3 games, and you'd be right, but those games didn't shy away from the fact that they were rollercoaster third person shooters. Platfoming was a cooldown from the meat of the game, that being fairly lengthy high energy action scenes. UC4 has no meat. Or rather, UC4 attempts to make everything meat, and in doing so ends up with a bunch of bread. Beautiful bread, but still.....bread. And bread gets dry after a while.
You can absolutely see how they got here, and it's a course that runs directly through The Last of Us, but the DLC to that game is the germ from where Uncharted 4 came. The Last of Us is actually much more tense and high energy for longer stretches, throwing in a number of different encounters just for the sake of encounters, because that's a game that, after the opening hour, is paced on the highs and lows of tension and intensity. Sure once in a while you'll get a pacing beat that relies solely on whatever narrative checkpoint you just hit, but even those feel more in concert with the gameplay pacing than Uncharted 4. No, UC4 isn't "The Last of Uncharted."
What it is, is "Uncharted: Left Behind."
What they started pushing even more with Left Behind was game design where the "whole" stands on a level playing field. That means that combat pacing beats and/or set-pieces aren't the dominant factor in pacing anymore. Now, each of these "interactive story moments" is a pacing beat as important as any encounter, as any set-piece. There are no more classic action game lows. Everything becomes a bigger part of the experience. You can see this in how much time and energy they've spent in fleshing out these interactive story moments, from the picture booth and costume store in Left Behind, to Drake's attic and the flashbacks in UC4. No longer is "experiencing the story" just pushing forward through dialogue, but instead you're completely dropped into the story, including all the mundane parts of it, just to prove a point.
Ok, so that's fine, right? A more fleshed out experience where you control more of the game. Well..... it would be fine except for this lingering vibe that Naughty Dog has listened to the criticism of Uncharted being a shooter. In removing the classic action game lows, they've also gone away from the more traditional highs, slashing enemy numbers in an attempt to make combat feel more logical within the game's pacing. "You only encounter enemies when the story needs it" is a common sentiment here. Ok, so, again, that's fine right? Game design is maturing, devs gotta try different things. Well...... it would be fine if the platforming sections were anywhere near engaging, or if they were trying some big and crazy ideas with the puzzles, and now I'm starting to loop around back to my initial complaint.
So this ramble is my take away from Uncharted 4. I get what they're doing, but I don't like the way it's put together. I miss the stretches of classic action shooter game design, where combat ideas are introduced and fleshed out in a sequence rather than abandoned for more walk + talk, and numerous moments of downtime where you're left to stew in whatever the last cutscene or interactive story moment was. Where momentum is built and retained for long stretches. Where you can feel each sequence building toward the next all in service for some big flashy period on a sentence, rather than the awkward start and stop fits we see in Uncharted 4. If they can find a way to marry long action scenes with this new approach I'd probably love it, much in the way I love Wolfenstein: The New Order even with its lengthy chunks of non-shooter gameplay, but Uncharted 4 is not that game.
This and No Man's Sky a few months apart though....woof.
Ok, this is the last time, I promise.
maybe
entremet
Member
Nice post. Interesting thesis.
Speaking of Left Behind, are we getting SP DLC for Uncharted 4?
I wonder if they go back to balls to wall action lol. That would be hilarious.
Messofanego
Banned
The pacing of Uncharted 4 is its worst aspect.
Sadly, it doesn't get much better, gameplay-wise. There are a couple of escape setpieces like the falling towers, but the encounters don't improve that much. Naughty Dog can't seem to ever do a final boss well (frankly, they should stop bothering). Cute ending, though.
The graphical design and characters are great.
Apart from that, I actually consider Uncharted 4 a bad game. I didn't really enjoy playing it at any singular point like I did the others.
Maybe the series isn't for me anymore, or that kind of game. I had to really force myself through the endless waves of annoying ass bullet sponges at the end of the game.
Apart from that, I actually consider Uncharted 4 a bad game. I didn't really enjoy playing it at any singular point like I did the others.
Maybe the series isn't for me anymore, or that kind of game. I had to really force myself through the endless waves of annoying ass bullet sponges at the end of the game.
martino
Member
will force me to go there when i have nothing else to do , i known i can really enjoy it
I doubt it, they specifically said that they knew they would disappoint action game fans, but that this is what they wanted to do going forward.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
Well it serves the story and what's happening. Drake also has dialog and jokes while climbing. It's not as boring as Gaf makes it to be. The climbing animations are phenomenal too!
I also get excited about AC games for the climbing part. I like good climbing animations. Many people prefere infamous the fast climbing. I think it's one of the things that turns me off in infamous games.
What does gameplay mean to you? If UC4 has bad encounters, which TPS's are supposed to have good ones and why are they better than the approach that UC4 takes? This is what I don't understand when people start criticizing the gameplay. If you're talking about the constant climbing and swing roping, I can sort of understand because I think there's too much of that that's impacting the overall pacing. But it terms of level design and the encounters, that's one of the games strongest points - the ability switch between stealth and open combat easily and being able to actually lose the enemy AI. Also NPC take downs are awesome and random, which adds to the dynamic aspect of the combat gameplay. There's a lot of things that add to make it feel amazing to play while looking visually top notch.
vpance
Member
It would be very sad if ND doesn't take this criticism to heart, after being lauded with that MC score and however many awards they received. Don't get too arrogant Duckmann.
The whole box n' ladders moving simulator to cut off backtracking needs to go. Yes, it's to hide asset loading but there needs to be another solution. Otherwise, just go more open world. The concern over having total control of the narrative is overblown when the story is so 90s network episodic TV fare stuff.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Bringing in the narrative/minute to minute gameplay aspects of The last of Us to Uncharted4, didn't work in it's favor is what I felt. Don't get me wrong, UC4 still has it's moments in it, but it didn't feel Uncharted from start to finish like how UC1,2,3 felt!
There was way too many platforming bits and far less enemy encounters and enemy encounters didn't quite result in exciting personal moments as a player. It wasn't a satisfying ending to the franchise as I'd have hoped. The villain reminded me of Jake Gylenhaal a lot and thus i couldn't picture him in my head as a real villain to drake's final chapter. Nadine looked all dolled up and though the run ins with her were good, the game's narrative could've been just fine even without her in it. The stealth approach in the game felt frustrating too with lack of stealth weapons. Aiming at enemies and marking them down didn't come by naturally when actually playing the game.
Despite all this I'd still recommend UC4 for everyone to try it out as it's from a studio that I absolutely adore!
There was way too many platforming bits and far less enemy encounters and enemy encounters didn't quite result in exciting personal moments as a player. It wasn't a satisfying ending to the franchise as I'd have hoped. The villain reminded me of Jake Gylenhaal a lot and thus i couldn't picture him in my head as a real villain to drake's final chapter. Nadine looked all dolled up and though the run ins with her were good, the game's narrative could've been just fine even without her in it. The stealth approach in the game felt frustrating too with lack of stealth weapons. Aiming at enemies and marking them down didn't come by naturally when actually playing the game.
Despite all this I'd still recommend UC4 for everyone to try it out as it's from a studio that I absolutely adore!
I must've ruined the pacing myself by stopping to take a beautiful photo once every 10 minutes. Loved every second of Uncharted 4 as I did all of the games in the series on PS3. The story and fast paced gameplay compelled me forward. The same couldn't be said about TLOU with its heavy atmosphere and slower more methodical gameplay. Although, having finished it recently on PS3 it's still a fantastic game.
Looks like it worked, since Uncharted 4 has a 93 as well.
For the record, I believe it's undeserved as well. It was a great game and my favorite in the series, but it's nowhere near a 93.
The Xtortionist
Member
They are doing SP DLC, yes, like Left Behind. We just don't know anything about it yet. The game kind of sets up some possibilities for the DLC, though.
But then again, Left Behind was... a DLC that took place before a certain point in the main game rather than a continuation or aftermath of the main story sooo it's hard to say whether it'll be a "continuation" from the main story (as in taking place after the main story) or just something slotted in somewhere. Hopefully it is more action-based if what some of the main story alludes to is actually what we'll be playing.
I hope to god it isn't another Left Behind, though.
vpance
Member
You're supposed to be taking pictures in photo mode. I must have spent a few hours doing that. Half the game is postcard simulator.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I know you're joking but this explains why the climbing was boring as fuck.
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Still seems shitty at chapter 14ish.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Certainly feels a lot slower than previous entries (Hey were Naughty Dog, were mature now look at our emotional acting every 5 minutes), but there's a point later in the game where its turned up to 11, and the action just turns insane, mass shoots outs, incredible graphics and destruction the lot. Or as my brother put it "This is fucking triple A".
Mr.Fletcher
Member
I'm really intrigued to see how this game is perceived over time. Something tells me it won't be favourably...
I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of sites snub it later this year during their GOTY discussions.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of sites snub it later this year during their GOTY discussions.
entremet
Member
I think Overwatch will be the big winner.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Is it really not very good?
This game is / was on my 'reasons to buy a Neo' list
This game is / was on my 'reasons to buy a Neo' list
Filthy Casual
Member
Uncharted 4 never really wowed me at all, but I really enjoy and play the multiplayer a lot so I'm happy I bought it.
timetokill
Banned
Thank you EatChildren and Net_Wrecker for those fantastic posts.
OrbitalBeard
Member
This is pretty spot-on.
After I played Left Behind, I posted that it was pretty clear to me that it would be the foundation for future Naughty Dog projects, especially considering how well it was received critically. And Uncharted 4 absolutely proves it. I genuinely don't expect this to change anytime soon either. This style of game is Naughty Dog's future.
The easy fix would have been cut down some of the platforming and climbing by 50%. Seriously. This alone would have created more compact pacing. This game didn't need to be 15 hours. Uncharted 2 was a 10 - 11 game just about. With this being the final Uncharted, it should have been a 12 - 13 hour game.
- Cut down climbing/crates by 50% from overall game / reduce level size for some of the bigger levels where there's no purpose of exploration
- 1 additional huge set piece that blends into the story
- 1 well placed close quarter combat encounter similar to the one in the caves in the late game
- 1 well placed big shoot out encounter with swing roping
These changes above = omg best Uncharted, masterpiece!
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
While we're on the topic, I quit playing Left Behind the moment the game forced me to Press X to Roar and wouldn't let me proceed if I didn't do the dumb QTE. If that is representative of modern gaming then its total trash and I'm out.
The Xtortionist
Member
You mean you're saying the second to last chapter shouldn't have been 100% climbing in a game already overstuffed with climbing
idk man, might throw off that balance
Mr.Fletcher
Member
You're asking for a totally different game. You would lose an enormous chunk of playtime without half of the brain-dead traversal sections and large empty environments.
I'm resisting the urge to trudge through my feelings on the game because I've already done it in the past, but the more I think about Uncharted 4 the more disappointed I get.
entremet
Member
It's not a bad game. It's just not as compelling as ND top TPS--Uncharted 2 and TLOU.Is it really not very good?
This game is / was on my 'reasons to buy a Neo' list
Those were engrossing experiences to me.
off topic and not related to any posts in here but some people still think Uncharted 2 and Uncharted 3 had a different "team".
brandonh83
Banned
Uncharted 4 is damn good but yeah the first half or so is absolutely slow and in dire need of better pacing. But, it was their vision story wise and I mostly respect it rather than enjoy it. It's well done enough to where it's good the first time through but as someone mentioned, it doesn't hold up on replays.
ND is excellent but I feel like they'd rather be making movies than videogames. If the entirety of UC4 were, gameplay wise and structurally like the second half it would have been an absolute masterpiece of a game.
ND is excellent but I feel like they'd rather be making movies than videogames. If the entirety of UC4 were, gameplay wise and structurally like the second half it would have been an absolute masterpiece of a game.
No I'm not. I'm cutting out the fat and making it more lean. The game would be paced more closely to Uncharted 2.
The game didn't have 8 hours of climbing guys, lol.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Is it really not very good?
This game is / was on my 'reasons to buy a Neo' list
Its not that UC4 is a bad game, its just very... boring, monotone, and forgettable which is pretty bad itself.