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[b33r]

This is the update that tries to have non friend leads up. I had to reset a few times but finally found a Xin Hua to pair with. Took the team to arena and died on Hino cause I hit him into where be binds you, not used to damage on that team yet. If Yomi Dragon would have been up I could of survived.

Definitely doesn't feel as safe as heart cross, obviously, but feels very doable. Team is pretty fun to play.

 

[J0dy77]

Weren't we supposed to have the one time $5 purchase reset? That's the only time I ever spent money on the game.

 

[Dr_LawyerCop]

Weren't we supposed to have the one time $5 purchase reset? That's the only time I ever spent money on the game.

I think that'll probably come with an event? Like when they reset everything (BF, 150/250 REM). Hopefully soon. I haven't IAP'd in a long time, and have really been doing pretty well with just free stones, but I can't pass that deal up. Hopefully we get it before the halloween REM so I can chase whatever trap cards I desire.

 

[SecretMoblin]

the one-time bargain reset is coming with the update on the 26th.

 

[LiQuid!]

All I want in life is PCGF

 

[cws]

I look at Myr specifically like MZeus/Hera/Athena. While farmable, they require an enormous amount of effort to acquire and to fully utilize their potential you need to demonstrate tons of patience (Py rewards to max skill and fully +) or skill in being able to repeatedly clear the dungeon. Add the evolution requirements and while not out of reach for most players it's still requires plenty of effort to accomplish. It's like the quest system with a powerful and tangible reward for all the work that goes into it.

Also while Myr's subpool is forgiving it's generally ill advised to keep a heart breaker on the team which takes a few powerful cards like Pollux, Awoken Apollo, and Alcyone from being top choices. So yeah she's powerful but it's also the culmination of a long term goal. If that goal didn't feel rewarding no one would persue it and some Non-IAP players and long timers would drop off entirely with nothing to work toward. This would dilute the coop pool making that feature less appealing, and it would feel like the game was stagnating.

I do think the extra buff might have been a bit much but hell it lets me consistently clear sea of stars so fuck it, I'm riding the hype train all the way.

Heh actually yeah you are right - kinda forgot that you have a "little" work into getting Myr full evolved and leveled. Still from the most farmable leads i experienced she feels really OP - cross heart, extra time to combo, good awakenings, quite the big sub pool... i feel they put themselves in a weird position, just makes me wonder what will force us to move on from cross hearts.

Thinking about it again....i put in a lot of work into maxing my Sumire and Myr squad - so its kinda weird that im complaining about them being too good considering that what i worked toward anyway lol.

It also helps for us westerners that we knew how powerful Myr would be and what kind of materials she needed for her evolution. Just feel that the cross hearts have taken away a lot of excitement from recent Awoken units or buffs.

As a F2P player that can rarely play Multiplayer mode, I can't relate to complaints like this.

Obv. im speaking for myself.
I dont even play coop that often - used coop to max skill Myr and Dios but thats that. Most tough challenges and new Desc. i try to solo at this point because as said...coop + cross heart is too OP.

Then again i dont know what your team setups look like - if you have a fully built cross heart team right now and still got excited about some of the newer units/leads - thats good for you i guess.

 

[Quantum]

- I like the new XM, unfortunately I only have about 100k mp points (I don't co-op) and will not be able to afford it.

- since I would have to buy a prohibitive amount of stones to grind 400k in the Halloween REM and none of the other cards really interest me I'm easily going to be able to resist IAP this time.

 

[Ducarmel]

Is Karin and company dancing to Thriller?



500k mp again not even close to that even though I play mp a lot with my alt. I only do it for clears not mp farming.

 

[Bladelaw]

Depending on the rest of the Halloween cards on offer I might skip it. Nothing jumping out as a must have for me. There's precious little content I can't clear with my current roster and I'm trying to be better about my spending on this game. Halloween XM is tempting but with Anaphon, and my existing Luci/Pandora teams I don't see her pushing any boundaries for me.

Halloween Rozuel would be a nice upgrade from Aamir for a couple teams since I just don't have a decent bind clear to cover the devil type. The Prongs certainly don't hurt either.

Fake Edit: Just saw the rest of the cards. Halloween Gran is basically Sherias Roots' Zeus Dragon. My alt has a hyper Sherias Roots. FUCK. This would give me a rainbow team I enjoy playing while also keeping my alt from having to pair with my Ra Dragon. It helps that I have the ideal roots team basically hypered already. Really have to think about this. The lesser rolls aren't amazing though still useful.

Here's a rundown of the REM:

4 stars: Thoth & Sopdet, Mulan, Misery, Undine, Izanami
None of these guys get me anything I don't have better elsewhere.

5 stars: Chiyome, Parvati
Chiyome is tempting. It's a shame Parvati didn't get the Beach Lakshmi treatment. I'd be happy with Chiyome but I'm not rolling for her.

6 stars: Alraune, Vampire, Laila, Karin, Rozuel
I'd be happy with pretty much anything in this tier. Alraune's buff looks huge. Bind Clear awakening and TE make her a farm more valuable sub. Vamp getting god killer makes him a straight upgrade for dvalk in my eyes. Karin would fit nicely on Awoken Persephone. Rozuel would be the final piece in a crazy strong dark TPA team.

7 stars: Blonia
Again Awoken Persephone would love access to her as a sub but I have normal blonia so the value is lessened here

8 stars: Kali, SoniaG, Xiang Mei
The dream. I'd be happy with SoniaG or Xiang Mei, HKali doesn't do anything for me.

Realistically, I don't see me picking up a collab 8 star and the smart money would suggest I hold off since while useful I don't get much value at 4* and need to get lucky to really see any benefit to rolling in this REM.

If Anaphon wasn't looming I'd probably roll a pack in this REM hoping to enhance a couple teams. As it stands I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'd love Gran but 8 star rates are terrible. At least they gave a decent carrot to chase for those more inclined.

 

[Dr_LawyerCop]

Yeah, I think I'm skipping it. I already have a Vamp from last year I've never used, cool that he'll have god killer now. I don't see the point of devil XM, especially at 500k. The regular fire version seems behind the meta and I don't think this one is as good. I mean I guess she's a good sub for some teams, but 500k just got you BMyr a couple months ago and that's very much at the top of the meta.

Hoping some of th GFEs I'm missing make PCGF. There's very few normal cards I'm chasing.

 

[W-00]

I'm thinking that both of my accounts will have to pull twice in the Halloween REM, for Rozuel and Izanami. Both accounts could use Rozuel (especially my alt) and although neither would actually have a use for her, I also have an unreasonable fondness for Izanami.

 

[Kreed]

Obv. im speaking for myself.
I dont even play coop that often - used coop to max skill Myr and Dios but thats that. Most tough challenges and new Desc. i try to solo at this point because as said...coop + cross heart is too OP.

Then again i dont know what your team setups look like - if you have a fully built cross heart team right now and still got excited about some of the newer units/leads - thats good for you i guess.

Based on the bolded I probably didn't word my post right. I'm saying obtaining the final form of Myr was very difficult/time consuming for me vs players that are able to play a lot of co-op and/or are spending lots of money on this game, so I can't relate to you saying Myr is too OP for a "free unit". Example, materials like Verche and Zeus + Hera took a lot of time and effort to evolve just to end up feeding them to Myr. I'm not even thinking about the new MP Dragon evolutions right now because of the amount of effort I will have to put into this game just to get the materials. So I am definitely glad Gungho is continuing to update and add new units that could potentially save me a lot of time and effort in regards to the work I'm putting into Myr or any other future "free" units they decide to create.

 

[SecretMoblin]

It's a nice feeling to be able to solo clear some Mythical content now. Even with a very subpar rainbow heartmaker team and a Ronove that isn't max skilled (4 green masks down the drain for nothing yesterday) Hera-Sowilo was shockingly easy yesterday and the Thursday daily is no problem.

Ronove really is kind of gross as long as there isn't a damage cap shield.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Next JP godfest is really bizarre in that they aren't having any pantheons at all and instead appear to be attempting to theme the selections based on dark/demon gods.

 

[Ducarmel]

I guess I will be saving stones. The only dark gods I'm missing on my jp actt is like old ones like luci and loki.

 

[jiggle]

About rogue dungeons
I see that different rogues require ALB to inherit different AS like shields and jize true damage or damage enhancer etc
My question is
Do ppl just redo their inherit every few days ?
Or do their just stick to specifc dungeons they have the set up for?
Would creating multiple ALBs my most convenient option?

Next JP godfest is really bizarre in that they aren't having any pantheons at all and instead appear to be attempting to theme the selections based on dark/demon gods.

Yeah it's very weird
Some comes fully evolved?
And the God fest exclusives are not 4x?
Think I'll save my stones from this one

 

[Bladelaw]

About rogue dungeons
I see that different rogues require ALB to inherit different AS like shields and jize true damage or damage enhancer etc
My question is
Do ppl just redo their inherit every few days ?
Or do their just stick to specifc dungeons they have the set up for?
Would creating multiple ALBs my most convenient option?

There's a couple options, If you want to farm MP every day for a minimal stamina investment then you can either:

Be fortunate enough to have multiples of relevant monsters to just put the teams together each day

redo inherits daily

Find a "close enough" team that covers multiple days

Buy the one rogue you can build a team for and run it.

I tried the inherit option and it makes you poor and tan-less very quickly. I don't recommend it. What I'd do is build a team for whichever rogue you want to have a max skilled boss for, run the dungeon until max skilled, then build the team for the next one. Repeat until you're happy with the results.

Then pick the one that's easiest for you or has nice side benefits. Z8 gives you free super kings for example. Buy the dungeon when you have an hour to farm, then farm it till your time is up.

I think this is the best mix. I'm still looking to max skill a scarlet system for Awoken Cao Cao just to give it a whirl but I'm juggling a bunch of side projects too.

 

[Okamid3n]

I personally only farm MP on Linthia or Scarlet days. Hassle-free, straight forward. I'm too lazy to deal with inherit variations. I don't really want to farm MP every day, anyway.

On that note, I know nothing about Linthia herself. Is there a point to having more than one Linthia max skilled? I'm obviously making at least 4 Scarlet, but I'm not sure about Linthia. I just feed her for the plus egg/sell her right now.


---

As for the halloween machine, they have, uhhh, pretty art. I'd love XM, but not for 500k. Would've bought her for 300k. I'll keep my MP for whatever the christmas 500k MP card is.

 

[Bladelaw]

I personally only farm MP on Linthia or Scarlet days. Hassle-free, straight forward. I'm too lazy to deal with inherit variations. I don't really want to farm MP every day, anyway.

On that note, I know nothing about Linthia. Is there a point to having more than one Linthia max skilled? I'm obviously making at least 4 Scarlet, but I'm not sure about Linthia. I just feed her for the plus egg/sell her right now.


---

As for the halloween machine, they have, uhhh, pretty art. I'd love XM, but not for 500k. Would've bought her for 300k. I'll keep my MP for whatever the christmas 500k MP card is.

I can't see a good reason to max skill multiple Linthia's. I did one for completeness and a "just in case" she becomes really good at some point. Out of the rogues I'd say something like 2 max Z8's, 1 Linthia, 1 Gainaut, 1 Nordis, 1, Myr, 4 Scarlet are the "reasonable" numbers of how many max skill bosses I'd push for. Z8 gives you dark skyfall for days and is usable on a bunch of teams. Linthia and Nordis have niche uses, Gainaut is super useful on Fenrir (but why?), Myr is among the best leads in the game, and a scarlet system led by Awoken Cao Cao can farm arena.

 

[Jagernaut]

For dungeon bosses I've max skilled 1 Z8 (can't think where I would use 2), Linthia, Jormungandr, Elia, Grisar, Myr, and 2 Scarlet. Still working on Nordis and another 2 Scarlet. ALB farming makes it easy and Z8 is the only one that needs inherits.

- Halloween XM - 500k mp is way too much, I have 417k now and would be tempted at 300k.

I will probably pull a couple times on Halloween REM and be happy with a Vampire or Alraune.

- Late rant: MP dragon evos - making radar dragons as materials is ridiculous, has there been any backlash in Jpn? I would love a new evo for Yomi Dragon but getting the materials is going to be too hard for most players. It would be nice if they gave us radar dragons as freebies like fruit dragons.

 

[jiggle]

Thanks!
Sounds like focusing on specific rogues is the way to go
I got (un)lucky with many liubei pulls
But my focus really should be on creating 1 good team first

 

[Dr_LawyerCop]

For dungeon bosses I've max skilled 1 Z8 (can't think where I would use 2), Linthia, Jormungandr, Elia, Grisar, Myr, and 2 Scarlet. Still working on Nordis and another 2 Scarlet. ALB farming makes it easy and Z8 is the only one that needs inherits.

- Halloween XM - 500k mp is way too much, I have 417k now and would be tempted at 300k.

I will probably pull a couple times on Halloween REM and be happy with a Vampire or Alraune.

- Late rant: MP dragon evos - making radar dragons as materials is ridiculous, has there been any backlash in Jpn? I would love a new evo for Yomi Dragon but getting the materials is going to be too hard for most players. It would be nice if they gave us radar dragons as freebies like fruit dragons.

I didn't realize until today that A3 radar dragons drop rates are bad. I just kinda assumed it was close to 100% since it's so hard. I don't think they've even revealed what those MP dragon evos are going to be so I wouldn't expect the outrage until they're released.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

The radar dragons also drop in some of the one-shot challenges, although I don't know if NA will ever get those. And those dungeons aren't exactly a walk in the park to beat either

 

[Bladelaw]

The radar dragons also drop in some of the one-shot challenges, although I don't know if NA will ever get those. And those dungeons aren't exactly a walk in the park to beat either

But unlike A3 they can be stoned through in the worst case scenario. This is the biggest thing IMO. Plus while they feel like Arena level difficulty based on the vids I've seen it guarantees a specific Radar dragon where as A3 it's random meaning you can't reasonably build a team to tackle every dragon.

 

[nicoga3000]

Someone on Discord is carrying my jank ass Pandora team through many runs of Dios! <3 His team is stack city, so it's super easy for him. He even puts up with me not being able to one-shot Dios on my turn, ha. Love it!

E: Got 8 runs in. Gonna need a LOT more to max these guys, but this is a start!

 

[Bladelaw]

Someone on Discord is carrying my jank ass Pandora team through many runs of Dios! <3 His team is stack city, so it's super easy for him. He even puts up with me not being able to one-shot Dios on my turn, ha. Love it!

E: Got 8 runs in. Gonna need a LOT more to max these guys, but this is a start!

Just a heads up on 3x it'll take around 50 feeds to max skill a Dios based on my luck. Having the +egg bonus active made it pretty easy to determine how many feeds it took.

 

[nicoga3000]

Just a heads up on 3x it'll take around 50 feeds to max skill a Dios based on my luck. Having the +egg bonus active made it pretty easy to determine how many feeds it took.

I'm just going to clutter my box until we see a 4x again (finger's crossed).

E: New farm room! Tsubaki slays. So glad I max skilled her. I didn't do multiples, so hopefully I can focus on that next time that dungeon comes up.

E2: Trying to deduce the Tsubaki's LS. If you make the 5 match with 1+ orb in yellow, do you still get the overall huge attack boost? Or does that boost only apply to the 5 orbs matched with the +orb?

 

[Bladelaw]

E2: Trying to deduce the Tsubaki's LS. If you make the 5 match with 1+ orb in yellow, do you still get the overall huge attack boost? Or does that boost only apply to the 5 orbs matched with the +orb?

Any orb type you can attack with will have that color (AND ONLY THAT COLOR) get the listed damage bonus. As a result it generally makes more sense to match 5o1e with a red over a yellow.

 

[nicoga3000]

Any orb type you can attack with will have that color (AND ONLY THAT COLOR) get the listed damage bonus. As a result it generally makes more sense to match 5o1e with a red over a yellow.

Thanks!

Also, what sort of team do you bring to the PreDRA dungeon?

 

[Bladelaw]

Thanks!

Also, what sort of team do you bring to the PreDRA dungeon?

I only run the low cost one so I bring my all Ra lazershow with 2SDR on my lead Ra for the boss floor.

 

[W-00]

Thanks!

Also, what sort of team do you bring to the PreDRA dungeon?

Generally, either a bunch of true damage/poison or something that can hit above their defense (such as Pandora or ALB). Defense breaks can be useful, but the one on the last floor uses a pre-emptive skill delay, so can't rely on just one defense break.

 

[the_log_ride]

Is the latest US update the one that gives the High Jewel dragons the Sticker Girls' skills? Been waiting for this for some time now.

 

[Jagernaut]

I want to do Machine Athena solo with a double Godin team like in this video

https://youtu.be/fBZtkOlONyQ

I need someone to put up a preferably max skilled Godin with either Raphael inherit or Jize/Sojiro inherit (max skilled). I can do either, just need a partner with the other inherit.

 

[Bladelaw]

I want to do Machine Athena solo with a double Godin team like in this video

https://youtu.be/fBZtkOlONyQ

I need someone to put up a preferably max skilled Godin with either Raphael inherit or Jize/Sojiro inherit (max skilled). I can do either, just need a partner with the other inherit.

I would but sadly my Grodin is far from max skilled and I'm super poor in coins and tans.

 

[jiggle]

I'm such a moron for not skilling up dios last event
2 days after box expansion and already almost full ; ;

 

[LiQuid!]

Are predras and baby predras only used for selling for MP? I thought I read something about them being used for skill ups before but I don't remember.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Are predras and baby predras only used for selling for MP? I thought I read something about them being used for skill ups before but I don't remember.

They are all skill up materials, yeah. Wood is Australis at the moment. PadGuide or here can give you the latest info.

Baby is Ilm which is VERY useful for me with a max skilled Tsubaki in the works.

 

[LiQuid!]

Oh I see, they are on skill up rotations. I thought they were just generic might skill up any of that color monster. Alright, MP it is.

 

[Hastati]

I can't see a good reason to max skill multiple Linthia's. I did one for completeness and a "just in case" she becomes really good at some point. Out of the rogues I'd say something like 2 max Z8's, 1 Linthia, 1 Gainaut, 1 Nordis, 1, Myr, 4 Scarlet are the "reasonable" numbers of how many max skill bosses I'd push for. Z8 gives you dark skyfall for days and is usable on a bunch of teams. Linthia and Nordis have niche uses, Gainaut is super useful on Fenrir (but why?), Myr is among the best leads in the game, and a scarlet system led by Awoken Cao Cao can farm arena.

I didn't quite understand why people were still farming scarlet, thank you for pointing this out.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Anybody want to run Tamas on JP? I can pushbutton as long as you lead with an AOE true damage and have a few extra skill boosts.
6796 0858

 

[nicoga3000]

Friday dungeon delivers! Myr stage 1 done!! Now for the long play. Ha.

Also, 3x skillup is on. Should I try for Dios skill ups or hold out for 4x? How rare is that?

 

[LiQuid!]

Been waiting for a day to get my Sumire skill ups in and of course the first day where nothing interesting is up on the dailies there's no 2x drop.

 

[J0dy77]

I personally only farm MP on Linthia or Scarlet days. Hassle-free, straight forward. I'm too lazy to deal with inherit variations. I don't really want to farm MP every day, anyway.

On that note, I know nothing about Linthia herself. Is there a point to having more than one Linthia max skilled? I'm obviously making at least 4 Scarlet, but I'm not sure about Linthia. I just feed her for the plus egg/sell her right now.

Z8 is my go to farm, it's extremely easy, gives a boat load of experience and Super King metal. Scarlet and Linthia are the backups but they can be a pain sometimes depending on randomness.

Was messing around with Nordis using Myr this morning, I think he might be right up there with Z8 for easy farm after the damage increase to Myr Leader skill. The only risk on this one was the light shield on the final two stages.

I didn't quite understand why people were still farming scarlet, thank you for pointing this out.

Scarlet is also a very good Mono red sub. I'm finishing one off for use on a future Krishna team. There's a solo Arena 3 video that we posted some pages back that uses her.

Friday dungeon delivers! Myr stage 1 done!! Now for the long play. Ha.

Also, 3x skillup is on. Should I try for Dios skill ups or hold out for 4x? How rare is that?

If you have the room and aren't going to use the team I would wait on Dios.

I fed all of the babydras now I had now that the skill rotated to Ilm (was able to finish skilling with the remaining 10).

Fed 5 fire jewels to Baldin and got 3 skillups, very happy with that one. Was afraid the skill rotation might cycle away before we got 4x.

 

[Bladelaw]

So the Batman Collab is coming back. Is this different from the DCU REM we got with Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad?

I have Anaphon's team all done basically so I don't need Armored Batman (he's an upgrade sure, but bird in the hand and money in the wallet) but Superman would be a pretty nice get for Kenshin given I can't roll Ilm to save my life.

 

[Dr_LawyerCop]

So the Batman Collab is coming back. Is this different from the DCU REM we got with Batman vs Superman and Suicide Squad?

I have Anaphon's team all done basically so I don't need Armored Batman (he's an upgrade sure, but bird in the hand and money in the wallet) but Superman would be a pretty nice get for Kenshin given I can't roll Ilm to save my life.

The good batman isn't in this REM, he's in the DC one. This one has like Harley Quinn, Robin, and a couple versions of batman that aren't as good.

 

[LiQuid!]

Bladelaw is there anything in this GF I want? Just looking at it it doesn't seem like it, for either my main or my alt.

I would love a Ra or 3 for buttoning but not enough that I want to sink stones into that when it won't actually help my actual "doin shit" teams.

I would also love to build up a team for Sumire but this GF doesn't seem to have any of her popular subs in it.

I think it might be a total skip on both accounts. I can always wait until another GF to try and get a Zuoh for my alt.

 

[Bladelaw]

Bladelaw is there anything in this GF I want? Just looking at it it doesn't seem like it, for either my main or my alt.

I would love a Ra or 3 for buttoning but not enough that I want to sink stones into that when it won't actually help my actual "doin shit" teams.

I would also love to build up a team for Sumire but this GF doesn't seem to have any of her popular subs in it.

I think it might be a total skip on both accounts. I can always wait until another GF to try and get a Zuoh for my alt.

Is your herder up to date? If so I'm not seeing a lot of value here. the mechanical star gods are basically upgraded Valkyries breaking hearts and board garbage. Almost all of them have their lead/sub evos and the sub evo is fantastic for a lot of teams. Ronove isn't one of them. Spica on Bacetet/Perseus/ALB/Australis is a great choice though since you don't need hearts to activate and more green combos = more damage, combined with 2 SBR, 2 SB, and godkiller and you have a great green sub that'll fit anywhere you don't need hearts.

Isis is a critical sub on rainbow teams as unbindable bind clear with a SBR, it helps that she covers awkward colors too but that's not as big an issue on Ronove.

If you pull and you're looking at pantheons I'd advise against it. Basically you'd be pulling for Isis, Ra, and Spica. The other Mechanical Gods are good but I don't think you have homes for any of them. I'd wait until there's a decent boost to GFE's (4x, PCGF, GFE-only REM, etc) with more favorable pantheons.

Good pantheon subs to look for on Ronove
Vishnu
Frejya
Ruel (risky due to active possibly overwriting hearts)
Rozuel
Yomi (For time extends and Change The World)

GFE:
Kaede
Baldin

MP Shop:
RagDrag

Otherwise wait for 3 Kingdoms and Heroes to come back around and roll hard there. Pretty much every card in both series is a winner.

 

[LiQuid!]

Alright, that's the assurance I needed, thanks. And yea I keep my herder pretty up to date. I slack on updating levels a lot since I get so much enhance crap all the time but every time I get new cards and awakenings I update it.

Looking at both Heroes and 3 Kingdom pantheons with the knowledge I have now compared to like a month or so ago, yeah it's plain to see almost every card out of those is amazing. Almost anything from both would either be a good leader or sub for my existing teams.

I swore I wasn't going to whale on this game but I really really want to splurge around one of the next great GFs to try and get some common ground between my accounts. A Panda on my main or an ALB on my alt would give me insane co-op options that I just don't have now and it bums me out.

 

[W-00]

Looks like my main will be skipping this GF. There's stuff that I'd love to have on it on both days (Spica, Mori, Lucifer, and to a lesser extent Baal), but the chances of stuff it doesn't need are just too high, and there are too many events coming up to waste stones now.

I'll probably make a roll on my alt on Day 2, though. Akechi or any of the Archdemons would be welcome on it.

 

[Dr_LawyerCop]

Managed to deal with both Sopdet and Parvati on the same run, in good shape active wise to get the clear, and I die the floor after Parvati when I dropped an orb making the cross... Feels bad, but it was at least good practice for Sopdet who I haven't seen in a while.

Not particularly stoked about this GF or Halloween REM, so my stone collection keeps growing. How weird is it that my most wanted card is Grodin and I hope he gets into the PCGF? I've never pulled him on either account.