Charles Brandon
Member
A bit like the Matrix films when they had long sections outside the matrix. No-one cares about that bullshit.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
A bit like the Matrix films when they had long sections outside the matrix. No-one cares about that bullshit.
Ep 4 sucked aside from the Hopkins and Ed Harris bits.
biggersmaller
Banned
No, but my theory is Teddy is based off William.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. It'd be like if Blade Runner spent long segments focusing on the internal politics of the Tyrell Corporation and the petty workplace greivances between colleagues and management. It takes away from the sinister and mysterious aura of the company, and it's also just not interesting to watch.
The show thrives when it focuses on interactions between the androids and the humans, whether they are guests or employees of the company. Many of the android-to-android scenes feel very pointless to me, as do the employee-to-employee scenes.
The tension comes from the interactions with real people and the uncertainty about how much the androids know, feel, and remember. I would say the only exception to the human-to-human scenes that are good are those featuring Hopkins, because (a) he's an excellent actor and (b) he knows things that the others do not - he himself is a mystery.
I like the show but I'm just feeling less and less compelled to watch it as it goes on. It just feels like there is a lot aimless time wasting and attempts to provoke questions just for the sake of manufacturing mystery.
The final scenes of the pilot were absolutely incredible, but nothing since then has really stimulated me quite the same way.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Honestly it seems like Teddy has a bigger role to play. We have Hannibal giving him a fairly large role in the new scenario. We have him joining the man in black. And he's also my man crush.
All signs point that he will be the secret second protagonist.
Just a funny little anecdote, not something groundbreaking (you guys have probably all come to the same realization) but I feel like sharing it nonetheless.
So I was talking with a friend the other day abut Westworld, and I complained about how the violence in the show felt artificial so far- there was no dramatic tension, and how it felt like filler to keep the viewer interested. That the show just alternated between philosophically charged scenes followed by bouts of violence.
My friend rebuked by saying the violence had a place in showing us how this world is, and how it works. I replied by agreeing with that notion but also added that there is only so much violence that is needed to get the point that "okay, this is place of violent self indulgence and cheap thrills".
Then it hit me.
The guests go to Westworld (the park) for cheap thrills and indulgences, they want a western experience and they get on. WE (the audience) come to Westworld (the show) for the very reason: the show was marketed as a western and we come for the same thrills and violence, but what we both get is actually different: the guests get a better idea of who they really are, the audience of the show does the same as they contemplate on the idea of AI.
Just felt very meta, that what we are to the show what the guests are to the theme park. We come in with similar expectations of schlock, but leave with a very different idea of our own being.
So I was talking with a friend the other day abut Westworld, and I complained about how the violence in the show felt artificial so far- there was no dramatic tension, and how it felt like filler to keep the viewer interested. That the show just alternated between philosophically charged scenes followed by bouts of violence.
My friend rebuked by saying the violence had a place in showing us how this world is, and how it works. I replied by agreeing with that notion but also added that there is only so much violence that is needed to get the point that "okay, this is place of violent self indulgence and cheap thrills".
Then it hit me.
The guests go to Westworld (the park) for cheap thrills and indulgences, they want a western experience and they get on. WE (the audience) come to Westworld (the show) for the very reason: the show was marketed as a western and we come for the same thrills and violence, but what we both get is actually different: the guests get a better idea of who they really are, the audience of the show does the same as they contemplate on the idea of AI.
Just felt very meta, that what we are to the show what the guests are to the theme park. We come in with similar expectations of schlock, but leave with a very different idea of our own being.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Maybe I missed the marketing that possibly gave it an 'actual action' feel. But from the start based on the initial trailer and concept of 'robots in the west' I knew it would explore something of AI more than action.
biggersmaller
Banned
Oh' I definitely agree he will have a huge role. I just think that whole "I dropped the can" scenario was based off William doing it first.
Cornballer
Member
- Collider Podcast discusses the first four episodes of Westworld (I haven't listened to this, so I have no idea if it's worthwhile)
Also, Gold Derby notes that HBO has submitted Thandie Newton, Evan Rachel Wood, and Anthony Hopkins as best actress/actor for the Golden Globes, whereas they submitted Ed Harris, James Marsden, Jimmi Simpson, and Jeffrey Wright in supporting roles.
Also, Gold Derby notes that HBO has submitted Thandie Newton, Evan Rachel Wood, and Anthony Hopkins as best actress/actor for the Golden Globes, whereas they submitted Ed Harris, James Marsden, Jimmi Simpson, and Jeffrey Wright in supporting roles.
The show is definitely commenting on the what "prestige" dramas are and what the audience wants with the way the writers/creators grapple with each other and with their clientele and what they are getting out of it vs. what they should be. Westworld is conceived as one thing and becomes another to cater to its audience, to the point where writers are asking for a further devolution of its characters and others are trying to add more nuance. The Westworld "story" is essentially written as a Walking Dead level thing re violence and gore, mixed with the criticisms leveled at many HBO shows as far as violence and nudity/sex. It's essentially an HBO show inside an HBO show that is trying to break out of those constraints.
It's a further extrapolation of my post the other day:
It's a further extrapolation of my post the other day:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I think the pace is great.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
When William rescues Clementine, she's wearing that green dress. When Clementine interacts with Maeve, is she wearing that same dress?
Delores is wearing the same dress for decades apparently so I don't see why it would even matter.
I don't want to waste time thinking too hard about the little things but I'm curious as to how guests are prevented from harming each other. When that old prospector guy wouldn't leave William alone his buddy Logan just stabbed him right through the hand without warning. If that had been a guest how would he have been protected?
You aren't really, just like the real world though there would be legal repercussions. Although you may have a decent defense revolving around not being able to tell someone wasn't a robot. There may be some sort of contact based visual hud we don't even know about yet though.
That would be cool.
PREVIEW SPOILERS:
The robots are programmed to intervene when a guest tries to harm another guest. The creators have talked about it in interviews and the preview for next week has a host stopping a human from harming another human.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The only thing I remember Thandie Newton from in other media is Mission Impossible 2, hahaha. Her acting is on point in this series.
The earliest thing I remember seeing her in was the film "Beloved" as the title character. She was amazing in that as well and I've always thought she didn't quite break out as much as she has deserved to do so.
I don't get this viewpoint at all concerning this show. The show is nothing without the corporation, the park employees, and the scenes in the lab and, you know, the real world that is what is driving the narrative. I mean, the show is not a western, not at all, it's about sentience and other such concerns with the western theme in service to it which is just where the "machines" happen to live.
Can we talk about the score? I love the themes in this show, and I particularly love that electronic theme when the hosts start to go all meta-universe, like when the daughter first talks about the maze and when Maeve takes Hector up to the safe to ask about the figure in her drawing.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I still have yet to see that, amazingly enough.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I mean not everything needs a second season. If it's designed as a self-contained story it can be a one hit wonder.
Cornballer
Member
Sure, but they've crafted a multi-season story for Westworld, and it'll get renewed sooner or later.
More_Badass
Member
Giving how one of Game of Thrones' biggest themes has been women rising to power, it would be cool for Dolores and Maeve to continue being the main leads (and maybe even the leaders of host revolution)
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He's a great composer. I liked his work on GoT, Iron Man, and Pacific Rim.
shira
Member
I wonder if they will get +/- their 100M budget.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I however, fucking hate these 'fan' theories. Or rather: "hey let's all assume stuff and talk about it as if it's a thing" when there's nothing. fucking. there. AAARGH
Seriously, this is not that complicated a show. Okay, so games and narrative stuff are home turf for me, but it still ain't that hard. I'm personally kind of even bored with it, sorta waiting for the plot to catch up with expectation. I would expect
in episode six or maybe seven if they really stretch it.
I do wish TV writers would read broader on psychology though (or have someone to correct them on it, that is). "oh, that's just a bit of cognitive dissonance" in episode three was not was happening or could be used in that way. In reality it's the awareness and avoidance (usually) of contradictory statements, particularly when fundamental to a belief system. I suppose it was there to set up the madam plotline though, since she did have it in the episode after that.
The same thing happened in Hannibal when a line about mirror neurons came up. There it was that it's temporary for empathy, when in reality it's a mirror circuit that fires when seeing motions of others as if they were their own. There it was supposed to be Hannibal neutralizing an argument, but it just took me out of it, since that's not what that is.
Also,
It was nice to see the early days of the park though.
edit:
oh right, and that barn door where the shootout with William and friend happened seemed to be the same one as Maeve remembers from her remembered plot.
Seriously, this is not that complicated a show. Okay, so games and narrative stuff are home turf for me, but it still ain't that hard. I'm personally kind of even bored with it, sorta waiting for the plot to catch up with expectation. I would expect
Dolores and MiB to meet again
I do wish TV writers would read broader on psychology though (or have someone to correct them on it, that is). "oh, that's just a bit of cognitive dissonance" in episode three was not was happening or could be used in that way. In reality it's the awareness and avoidance (usually) of contradictory statements, particularly when fundamental to a belief system. I suppose it was there to set up the madam plotline though, since she did have it in the episode after that.
The same thing happened in Hannibal when a line about mirror neurons came up. There it was that it's temporary for empathy, when in reality it's a mirror circuit that fires when seeing motions of others as if they were their own. There it was supposed to be Hannibal neutralizing an argument, but it just took me out of it, since that's not what that is.
Also,
who wants to bet Arnold isn't a real person, but rather a product of Ford's? Difficult to check a story when there's no record. If you've read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance you will also be familiar with the Phaedrus, which might be how this plays out too.
It was nice to see the early days of the park though.
edit:
oh right, and that barn door where the shootout with William and friend happened seemed to be the same one as Maeve remembers from her remembered plot.
I'd put good money on Maeve being Dolores's "evil"/vengeful foil -- the one who makes good on the idea highlighted by the IT woman's comment in one episode, "Could you imagine what these things would do to us if they remembered?" I'm paraphrasing, but there've been a few sideways mentions of the observation that the hosts would literally tear the humans apart if they knew the horrors humans inflicted upon them.
Whereas Dolores's consciousness seems to be emerging naturally (relatively) from her backlog of memories, scripting, and overall experiences as the oldest host in the park, Maeve figured out how to game the system with her sleep trick and is waking up violently, metaphorically speaking. And while Dolores is primed for an emotional link with the human race via William, as soon as Maeve realizes she's not crazy, she affirms her belief that nothing matters and immediately gets blown away. Not only that, but her death(s) are due to "the puppets who pull her strings" -- whom she can see, thanks to what she explicitly refers to as a "curse". I think she's heading down the path of vengeful nihilism, in direct contrast to Dolores.
"Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world, the disarray. I choose to see the beauty."
After Dolores echoed Bernard's statements about losing a loved one and pain, and Ford's fatherly/patronly tone towards him, I'm almost ready to write out a Bernarnold theory. But not yet.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
That is super weird. I think we've heard her voice but I don't remember ever actually seeing her or even a glimpse of her routine. How strange.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
Just finished the first ep...wow
Teddy has already died a thousand deaths when you think about it.
I think he was being sarcastic.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Wait, Doctor Strange is out in theaters already??? 
Mangamaniac71
Member
Yeah, he will bash his own head in. With a tin can.
Veritigo_X
Member
I'm expecting a Truman Show-esque escape attempt with Teddy and Dolores at some point this season. I thought it was going to happen after they talked about going to Mexico, but that was obviously just the setup.
Just trying to act chivalrious!