Clinton campaign didn't do tracking polls for the last month, ignored Michigan issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
I find it interesting how Trump's team strategized as well. I remember the media questioning if he was making the right moves, (focusing on the rust belt, neglecting Florida) etc etc etc. The dust has settled, and evidently someone in his team calling the shots was quite smart.

I think its easy to point out all the mistakes the Clinton team made now, but thats the benefit of hindsight. I don't think it was exactly a trainwreck, but in such a close race every decision counts.
 
Holy fuck I thought this GAFfer was kidding:

Weston-Imer-Trump-Campaign-Colorado-e1471870679132-800x430.png


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-trump-weston-imer-12-year-old-colorado-video

BTW, this is what happened in Jefferson County, CO:


fuckin' kid ran a better campaign than clinton did

wake me up inside

CAN'T WAKE UP
 
Wow.

So many of you are getting so angry towards Clinton right now.

The complete turnaround for the mood towards her in here is quite something to behold.

It isn't a 180° change though. They were lukewarm/annoyed before, now they are angry. And that's the whole point. The enthusiasm just isn't here, and her campaign never adressed this issue seriously.
 
1) even Warren was insinuating her ass was a misleading flip flopper a few years ago. Saying she changed her vote on a payday loan bill because of lobbyists.

And she lied about dumb shit, like Sniper fire and the origin of her name. All of that adds up to somebody untrustworthy. Who lies about their name? Its like the kid that says his uncle works for Nintendo or he has an Ultra 64 in his basement but you can't play it Or see it because it's packed up. Everything she says is suspect because of those high profile lies, and criticism for flip flops that came from the left.

Hell, she admits that she lies in her Goldman speeches. "Public and private positions" reads a lot like "sometimes you say you are going to do something that you have no intention of actually doing", probably all politicians do this but she sucks bad at it. Terrible salesman.

2) I don't care why she doesn't have charisma. I just care that she doesn't have it.

3) we're in a thread taking about how smug her campaign was that is literally littered with examples of smugness. You should consider reading the op and some of the posts.

I just looked this up in the dictionary:
having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements

Tge example sentence was "smug-ass Hillary bought fireworks and glass shaped confetti and didn't write a concession speech because she was so sure she was going to win."

1)
Two politicians publicly disagree on a proposed law. A civilian overstates the danger of their first experience of an active war zone. The inspiration for someone's name, as told to them by their mother, may or may not be a bit dubious. (I've got questionable origin stories for my own name. I feel no qualms telling them, because they're amusing, and they don't matter.)

This is some piddly bullshit. On the scale of character flaws and white lies, this doesn't even rank.

And "public and private positions" is how politics works. It's how the sausage is made. It's how everything works, because it's Negotiation 101. "I really care about this, and I'm willing to give up that to get it, but I'm not telling them that so they think they got the better deal." Every politician's intra-office email is chock-full of examples of this. And apparently, Hillary was both good and effective at it, as liberals were generally pretty okay with her voting record, and no-one called her on it until Podesta's email got hacked.


2)
Your choice. I find the knowledge that she effectively had to method-act her entire public life a useful lens for evaluating her actions and character.


3)
"Smugness" is a character trait, not a cause, and even if I agreed that she evinced it to an intolerable degree (and I don't), that has zero functional bearing on the many, many elements which factored into her loss.

If you're looking for a single proximate cause, it's the Comey emails, which clearly resulted in enough of a swing in the polls that she would have won handily without it. Back out further and you've got overconfidence leading to overreach on the part of the Clinton campaign, reaching for red states when they should have been entrenching swing states. They went for the big win to send a message, not grasping how far they could still be set back by a soundbite without substance, or how much free negative advertising the Trump campaign was getting out of the Wikileaks/4chan/The_Donald echo-chamber.

But they wouldn't have done that if it weren't for an apparent systemic bias in the polling, which pollsters are going to have a field day trying to figure out. I'm guessing that their likelihood of voting guesstimation breaks down at high levels of candidate dislike. Turns out asking "Clinton or Trump?" is somewhat less indicative than "Clinton, Trump, or sleep in, and then play some CoD?"

Walk back further and you can blame Podesta for his piss-poor information security. (...to an extent; given a targeted attack, every institution is going to have that guy.) Further back, I blame Bernie for weakening the spirit of not-his-party. And I suppose, at the start, you can fault Hillary for the hubris of thinking she could weather the shitstorm she knew would rain down if she tried to run.

You could argue her demographic targeting, but she underperformed across the board, so I don't think any particular racial focus could have salvaged that. Possibly, she leaned too hard on feminism -- once she'd reeled in the voters receptive to the message, further push on the topic probably drove down enthusiasm in the unreceptive. Someone's going to have to really drill down on demographics to see if there was something she missed, but the broad breakdowns I've seen just show a collective sigh of "meh" outside of the GOP wheelhouse.

Of course, there's her one true boneheaded move where she came down with C-Level Syndrome and thought she knew better than IT on how to run email. I give her a partial pass on that due to the government's technology uptake and information security being really bad. But only a partial one.

And finally, there's all the shit that I don't know because I wasn't there, and this enterprise was vastly more complicated than I could possibly conceive. So, I'm going to wait for a post mortem from someone who actually knows what went on and isn't a pundit who got the whole election entirely wrong. And in the meantime, I'm going to sit back, relax, and consider drinking heavily.
 
Why don't we blame the people who didn't vote instead of Clinton not campaigning hard enough? Can't people figure this stuff out on their own?

People did not vote because the Clinton campaign did not encourage them to do so. If people did not vote, it´s mostly the campaign´s vote not their.
 
Total events

September
Clinton 34
Trump 56

October
Clinton 43
Trump 64

November
Clinton 19
Trump 25

Total
Clinton 96
Trump 145

Trump talked about an enthusiasm gap and it was real.
That is an impressive gap in events. Trump really put in the work even while behind and it paid off in spades.
. . .
So voting on a war we shouldn't be in is okay if you have children in the Army? We get it, Biden is super likable, but some people aren't even subtle about the double standards. Shit on Hillary for supporting Bill's crime bill? Don't say anything about Biden voting for it. Rightly criticize her for supporting Bill's welfare reform? Crickets when it's mentioned Biden also voted for it.
It's not a carte blanche excuse for his vote, but typically people have been more willing to forgive poor political decisions if the politicians voting for it actually had something to lose and/or put their money where their mouths were.

The rest of your points are strawmen anyways since no one was discussing them or said anything excusing them.
 
People did not vote because the Clinton campaign did not encourage them to do so. If people did not vote, it´s mostly the campaign´s vote not their.

It's hard for me to reconcile that with the stories of massive GOTV operations happening. But it's clear that the enthusiasm gap was just insurmountable. And I don't know what picking up phones or knocking on doors can do to get people to like someone they just, fairly or unfairly, flat out do not like.

I want to say it stemmed from the decision to ignore key demographics.

For example, Clinton visited New York and California during her campaign trail more times than she should have. She also focused mostly on minorities and battleground states-Ignoring states(Until the last second like Pennsylvania) like Michigan or Wisconsin, which Obama made an effort to go to and talk to the people there.

She campaigned hard in PA, it was not an after thought. In hindsight, her total absence from Wisconsin was a massive strategic fuck up. But here you have three states -- Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin -- where she high to non-existent levels of campaigning, and yet lost all three. She gave her biggest attention to PA and lost by the most there! Which gets back to the point I was making above: if there's a certain perception of her, for just enough people in just enough counties, that she is just too unlikable to care about what she has to say or think through her policy ramifications vs. Trump's, then how do you get through that? Maybe some of the data was bad, but the GOTV machine and the surrogate army was impressive. The common weak is that Hillary Clinton was Hillary Clinton.

It's really painful to admit, because I very strongly wanted her to be president and am so afraid of what's going to happen these next four years (and beyond, even if Trump loses in 2020), but it does just seem like, given the mood of this election and the years of deserved or undeserved baggage, Hillary's candidacy was a doomed one.
 
Total events

September
Clinton 34
Trump 56

October
Clinton 43
Trump 64

November
Clinton 19
Trump 25

Total
Clinton 96
Trump 145

Trump talked about an enthusiasm gap and it was real.
Is it just me or has this only been brought up after the election? I had no clue Hilary was lagging behind in campaign stops. I thought trump was just being an ass when he said Hilary likes to sleep alot.

And now everytime its brought up I keep thinking about this.
O9hnCZr.gif
 
Clinton was the diametric opposite of what was needed at this time. And no, I'm not just saying that after the fact since I criticized her months before she lost (and ate my bans too as it seems many Hillary critics did).

One of the things many Americans are very angry about is corporate manipulation of government. HRC is a poster girl for that. One of the reasons Obama beat her in 2008 was that he was seen as more of an outsider. Do you remember the slogans "Change we can believe in", "Yes we can"? Even though he's seen as a polished president now many people criticized his lack of experience back then. Yet he won. However he had a tougher battle in 2012 and got rather unpopular during parts of his final term.

So along comes a candidate, Bernie Sanders, who re-ignited the base and started a movement that attracted young people and independents. Despite being in politics for a long time he had consistency and credibility so people believed him when he spoke. He was often beating Trump comfortably in polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html He was a gift for the incumbent party which really needed that infusion of enthusiasm and a platform of change to compare to Trump's anti-establishment message without the demagogic appeal to divisive sentiments.

What did the DNC do? They did the bidding of their corporate masters by telling him to go kick rocks while doing everything in their power to make sure Hillary Clinton was the nominee. Hillary Clinton, with decades of political baggage, a trust deficit, and even more scandals in the offing, was selected in an environment where there were burgeoning anti-establishment movements on both sides. Democracy worked in the Republican party and they got their guy. Bernie supporters were denied theirs. It's not that hard to predict who'd be energized and enthusiastic who'd feel angry, betrayed, and disillusioned. Then in an atmosphere where they were often treated with condescencion they were expected to reward the individuals who buried their candidate just to prevent someone else from becoming president. Meanwhile, that individual ironically had more in common with Sanders than most assume when it came to the themes and emotional force of his message.
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/08/465974199/what-do-sanders-and-trump-have-in-common-more-than-you-think

Don't say "nobody said" because many people TRIED to talk but they were often ignored or shouted down. The latimes even said that the poll which had Trump ahead late in the campaign (The USC Daybreak poll) elicited angry responses from readers when they reported on it. People only wanted reassurance and that's what they got until reality burst through the door like:
http://giphy.com/gifs/hello-hey-big-brother-l0MYBbEvqqi1kfuyA
 
You can't take that away from him. Just look at the difference. I just compared the number of listings per day according travel calendar provided a page or two back.

September:

Clinton: 0 events for 7 days, 1 event for 13 days, 2 events for 9 days, 3 events for 1 day
Trump: 0 events for 2 days, 1 event for 9 days, 2 events for 10 days, 3 events for 9 days

October:
Clinton: No info for 2 days, 0 events for 5 days, 1 event for 9 days, 2 events for 11 days, 3 events for 4 days
Trump: 0 events for 1 day, 1 event for 8 days, 2 events for 7 days, 3 events for 14 days

November:
Clinton: 0 events for 0 days, 1 event for 0 days, 2 events for 3 days, 3 events for 3 days, 4 events for 1 day
Trump: 0 events for 0 days, 1 event for 0 days, 2 events for 1 day, 3 events for 3 days, 4 events 1 day, 5 events for 2 days

Ok. Trump gained one more point for having a better ground game than Clinton in one more area.

Pathetic how the expert lost.
 
Is it just me or has this only been brought up after the election? I had no clue Hilary was lagging behind in campaign stops. I thought trump was just being an ass when he said Hilary likes to sleep alot.

And now everytime its brought up I keep thinking about this.
O9hnCZr.gif

This comment makes so much more sense now having seen the gap in number of events.
 
Is it just me or has this only been brought up after the election? I had no clue Hilary was lagging behind in campaign stops. I thought trump was just being an ass when he said Hilary likes to sleep alot.

And now everytime its brought up I keep thinking about this.
O9hnCZr.gif
Honestly, I had no idea. I was living in a fucking bubble and I'm a bit angry at myself for it.
 
Is it just me or has this only been brought up after the election? I had no clue Hilary was lagging behind in campaign stops. I thought trump was just being an ass when he said Hilary likes to sleep alot.

And now everytime its brought up I keep thinking about this.
O9hnCZr.gif
I mean, it's a bit hard to filter out when Donald Trump is bullshitting and when he is saying something of substance.
 
Clinton was the diametric opposite of what was needed at this time. And no, I'm not just saying that after the fact since I criticized her months before she lost (and ate my bans too as it seems many Hillary critics did).

One of the things many Americans are very angry about is corporate manipulation of government. HRC is a poster girl for that. One of the reasons Obama beat her in 2008 was that he was seen as more of an outsider. Do you remember the slogans "Change we can believe in", "Yes we can"? Even though he's seen as a polished president now many people criticized his lack of experience back then. Yet he won. However he had a tougher battle in 2012 and got rather unpopular during parts of his final term.

So along comes a candidate, Bernie Sanders, who re-ignited the base and started a movement that attracted young people and independents. Despite being in politics for a long time he had consistency and credibility so people believed him when he spoke. He was often beating Trump comfortably in polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html He was a gift for the incumbent party which really needed that infusion of enthusiasm and a platform of change to compare to Trump's anti-establishment message without the demagogic appeal to divisive sentiments.

What did the DNC do? They did the bidding of their corporate masters by telling him to go kick rocks while doing everything in their power to make sure Hillary Clinton was the nominee. Hillary Clinton, with decades of political baggage, a trust deficit, and even more scandals in the offing, was selected in an environment where there were burgeoning anti-establishment movements on both sides. Democracy worked in the Republican party and they got their guy. Bernie supporters were denied theirs. It's not that hard to predict who'd be energized and enthusiastic who'd feel angry, betrayed, and disillusioned. Then in an atmosphere where they were often treated with condescencion they were expected to reward the individuals who buried their candidate just to prevent someone else from becoming president. Meanwhile, that individual ironically had more in common with Sanders than most assume when it came to the themes and emotional force of his message.
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/08/465974199/what-do-sanders-and-trump-have-in-common-more-than-you-think

Don't say "nobody said" because many people TRIED to talk but they were often ignored or shouted down. The latimes even said that the poll which had Trump ahead late in the campaign (The USC Daybreak poll) elicited angry responses from readers when they reported on it. People only wanted reassurance and that's what they got until reality burst through the door like:
http://giphy.com/gifs/hello-hey-big-brother-l0MYBbEvqqi1kfuyA

Is it true you were banned whenever you spoke out against Hillary? Damn...it really was a bubble of reassurance
 
I can't wait for someone to write a play about Clinton: the ascendancy, the hardships, the hope, the tragedy.

It will be the Oedipus Rex of our time.
 
I remeber when it was proudly announced that she flies home every day because she can't sleep in a hotel bed.

It's like people thought that would show how grounded and working class she is.
 
I remeber when it was proudly announced that she flies home every day because she can't sleep in a hotel bed.

It's like people thought that would show how grounded and working class she is.
Fucking insanely delusional. I know Trump did too that but god damn did she even think that through?
 
Is it true you were banned whenever you spoke out against Hillary? Damn...it really was a bubble of reassurance
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.
 
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.

I very much doubt that was true, unless you're trying to say all the mods were somehow biased in the same way
 
Fuck this. I'm so pissed now. She ran an absolutely horrible campaign in 2008 and she ran a horrible campaign in 2016 again if this is to be believed.

She was a terrible choice to run for presidency, period. What the hell were the DNC thinking?

Hillary Clinton was the wrong candidate.

How in the world did the Hillary voters not see this!?

RoyPlease.png

I blame the DNC for choosing her to run for presidency.
 
I very much doubt that was true, unless you're trying to say all the mods were somehow biased in the same way
Most mods were just keeping out of the politics thread. Hell, when I was asking one mod, he asked me to ask another mod, because he didn't want to get involved with that uglyness. This probably lead to the two very Clinton aligned mods to lead the charge.
 
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.
Not suprising since we had mods with Hillary as avatars. Everytime I thought about posting something about Bernie or was critical of Hillary I held back.




Doesn't make a damn but of difference to the election. In the end, it was her campaign and strategy that cost her the presidency and us our safety. Not a bunch of posters talking politics on a video game forum. God dammit.
 
Is it true you were banned whenever you spoke out against Hillary? Damn...it really was a bubble of reassurance

That wasn't the reason given no, though Clinton was associated with the offending posts.

I had two bans over the period. The first I was deemed to have said something that was "not nice" when responding to one of many angry Hillary defenders and I was banned for a month and told to "become a better person".

The second was in the "Oculus Rift guy supports Trump thread" where I commented that I didn't think he should be branded racist just because he supports a candidate that may have said or done things considered racist. After all, HRC had said racist things too. I was banned for a week within a few seconds of posting for taking the thread "off topic" when I thought that was the topic everyone was talking about.

At that point I took a break from the forum until yesterday. Obviously posting is a privilege and one can be banned for any reason. But I didn't feel any security when I suddenly started picking up bans when I hadn't been banned in years as a member.
 
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.

I do recall that some posters were literally attacked whenever they tried to compare this presidential election to Brexit. Yes, her campaign was run on arrogance. But everyone was arrogant - the media, her supporters, PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM
 
I thought it was really weird that both of them fly home each night rather than stay out on the trail.

Clinton et al. fucked this up folks.
 
Is it just me or has this only been brought up after the election?
It's not just you. It's you and a lot of other people who weren't getting proper information.

To be fair, there have been elections in the past where large rallies didn't translate into victory per se, but that doesn't mean it never will.
 
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.
I remember it being like this, too. Perhaps it's just due to disagreeing posts tending to get quoted by a lot of people, making the heated comments more visible to mods. This seems to happen to conservative posts a bunch too. It stifles discussion when people can dog pile you, call you a fucking idiot, etc., and then you cop a ban for getting heated yourself.
I very much doubt that was true, unless you're trying to say all the mods were somehow biased in the same way
Lol idk, let's ask the Abuela avatars who they support. This website has been insanely biased, becoming the fourth(?) highest linking website to the Clinton campaign. No echo chamber here, though. Can't hear an echo if it's a constant wall of sound.
 
I remeber when it was proudly announced that she flies home every day because she can't sleep in a hotel bed.

It's like people thought that would show how grounded and working class she is.


The thread about that blew my mind. People were just hand waving it because of her age.

If McCain can tote his creaky old ass around the whole country in a bus Clinton should have been able to sleep in a hotel room in Michigan for a night.
 
I mean, it's a bit hard to filter out when Donald Trump is bullshitting and when he is saying something of substance.

Yeah pretty much.

exactly

I tuned out his shit at a certain point minus the pussy grabbing and scandals of that caliber
What you guys might not realize, is that those two things are closer than you think. A lot of people dismiss Trump's verbal discharges as dumb or insignificant. Some of it is. But a lot of it is calculated and crafted with the goal of eliciting an emotional response. Reputation and simplicity sticks in your brain. Make America Great Again. You can't forget it. It doesn't even fucking mean anything but that's not the point. You're getting drunk on member berries. It's substance and bullshit at the same time and that's why 60 million people voted for him.


Is it true you were banned whenever you spoke out against Hillary? Damn...it really was a bubble of reassurance

Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.

I very much doubt that was true, unless you're trying to say all the mods were somehow biased in the same way
Bannings had legit reasons like "derailment" or whatever, but from my observation, they were handed out unevenly to Bernie supporters. It does not help to keep one's composure if you're also being dog piled with accusations of sexism and racism left and right. It's the same problem that was discussed in the "den of cunts" thread the other year. This forum has always had an issue with it. It also didn't help that Clinton's superPAC paid people to "correct" I. E. disparage Bernie supporters online. I wouldn't be surprised if they were working on gaf too.
 
What you guys might not realize, is that those two things are closer than you think. A lot of people dismiss Trump's verbal discharges as dumb or insignificant. Some of it is. But a lot of it is calculated and crafted with the goal of eliciting an emotional response. Reputation and simplicity sticks in your brain. Make America Great Again. You can't forget it. It doesn't even fucking mean anything but that's not the point. You're getting drunk on member berries. It's substance and bullshit at the same time and that's why 60 million people voted for him. .

I don't doubt it was deliberate.
 
Arguably, the bans were about conduct rather than viewpoint. But in my recollection, Hillary supporters would act the same, add innuendo that the poster is racist or sexist, and have no consequences.

There is truth to this. There was a strange and unsettling acceptance of people not-so-subtly insinuating other posters are sexist and misogynists when confronted with criticisms laid against Clinton. Lord knows I was labeled sexist more than once for god knows what reasons other than pointing out flaws in the 'queen', and it probably would have happened a lot more had I not almost entirely bowed out of political discussions on this board months ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom