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Spoiler thread for Arrival | We have Contact again

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Einchy said:
Oh true, I was thinking about it from the point of view of someone who had already seen the movie and knew the twist and not from someone seeing it for the first time.
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The thought crossed my mind after the reveal as well, but it's just a "suspension of disbelief" thing. Pretend she's on that Asian Women Aging image, I guess.
 
The "ability" is merely something you get from interpreting the language. She explains it in the movie as "learning/understanding different languages can change how your brain perceives or thinks about things".
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The idea that you can see the future by learning a language is such total bollocks it's a testament to the quality of the film that it gets away with it.
 
PrankT said:
Sorry, I should have said that's what I got from it. They didn't specifically say and I could be way off.

The fact that one was dying and the aliens needed help in 3000 years (which was the point of the movie), implied to me that the aliens needed help from the humans to fix their ailments in the future. Maybe he was just dying of old age or for a different reason entirely...
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Given the timing in the film, it seemed heavily implied Abbott was fatally injured in the explosion.

There otherwise seemed to be total ambiguity about what challenge the aliens faced in the future that they needed the humans help, and what the nature of that help would be.
 
Rainy said:
So do the aliens have this circular representation of time as well? I mean they have to right since they know that something bad is going to happen in 3000 years. If they can see that it's going to happen, are they just trying to prevent it by reaching out to Louise?

I'm just wondering what Louise, or humanity for that matter, can do to help them. I guess it would help if we knew what was going to happen in 3,000 years...
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It literally doesn't matter what is going to happen in 3000 years. Whatever it is, they must know that we are able to resolve it once they share their language with us. There's 12 ships - it's not just for Louise. If you're wondering what we could possibly do to help them, imagine what we'd be capable of doing after 3000 years of being able to perceive time in this manner.
 
mrkgoo said:
The flash forwards at the beginning aren't a prologue. They're a red herring used to trick you into thinking it's a prologue. She doesn't actually have those flash forwards until after she starts interpreting the alien language.

The "ability" is merely something you get from interpreting the language. She explains it in the movie as "learning/understanding different languages can change how your brain perceives or thinks about things".

In a real world example, it's like how some languages have genders, and some don't. Like in Chinese you don't refer to him or her, it's always just "them". It might also mean you think about ther thugs in a slightly different way. Another example may be how Chinese isnsyllabic based with each syllable basically being a word or character and not built from component "letters".

Take this to an extreme where a language is 3 dimensional or time based and then the way you perceive time changes, thus having memories of the future.
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But why didn't her future husband see this visions too? he was learning the language.
 
Mario said:
Given the timing in the film, it seemed heavily implied Abbott was fatally injured in the explosion.

There otherwise seemed to be total ambiguity about what challenge the aliens faced in the future that they needed the humans help, and what the nature of that help would be.
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Ah, well guess I thought Abbott was dying of something else instead of the explosion since he showed up late to their session (or was Costello late?). Time to watch it again.
 
I give it an 8/10. It was an interesting a cool and movie, and executed on its concept well. I didn't evoke many strong reactions out of me though. I was pretty consistently intrigued by it, but there weren't enough high points for me to make me think it was an overall amazing flick. Definitely worth seeing imo, easily.

RS4- said:
Renner "left" her because she told him about their daughter dying.

That's my interpretation of it.
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I thought there was gonna be a twist at some point, or some kind of "hint" that Louise was actually actually indicating that she was gonna die from a disease, not the daughter. Her getting the disease could be explained by her exposure to the air in the glass thing.
 
This has been one of my favourite short stories for years and I've re-read it probably a half dozen times. I have been TERRIFIED at how it would play out on screen but cautiously optimistic based on reviews. It was an absolutely fascinating experience. When that Max Richter song started to play in the first 30 seconds I was in tears.

I was a bit surprised at the big changes to the story, but there were less changes to the structure than I thought. The story changes do make a lot of sense because I don't think the short story had enough "meat" for a film, and the (somewhat-tacked-on) conflict works to this end without sacrificing what the actual story is about at it's core. To this end, I originally hated the title change from "The Story of Your Life" but I can appreciate the desire to shift attention from that. I still don't think "Arrival" is a good title, but I'm less upset about the switch.

I do have to wonder if they should have done more to fill in some of the gaps so some aspects feel like less of a leap. During the movie I got the impression (and my date later confirmed) that people who hadn't read the short story wouldn't really have a good understanding of WHY knowing the alien's written language would allow someone to remember the future, and it felt like a surprise. They very briefly mentioned the Sapir Whorf hypothesis early on but really butchered the explanation. They also very early dropped that the alien's understand primes but have trouble with our algebra in a throwaway line, but don't ever really come back to that in a meaningful way. Granted I don't think they could truck out Fermat's Principle of Least Time to aid in the understanding but...maybe they could have? There is a mention that the alien's think non-linearly, but there's no real insight as to how the alien's simultaneous awareness of the universe is different from our sequential awareness other than that they can know the future. They never come back to the Heptapod's spoken language and why it's so different from their written language. I wish Louise's transition to that mode of awareness didn't feel so abrupt or random.

To my date it felt that the notion that understanding the Hetapod's language = seeing the future was pulled out of left field. Perhaps someone really attentive with a good memory could see the foundations that were being laid for that discussion early on, but I wonder if they could have done better. There was certainly room, as a lot of scenes felt a bit extended or plodding. It's not surprising as this is a short story that takes less than an hour to read stretched into a two hour film--and the new plot points don't account for the other 80 minutes.

Still, as someone who has adored the short story for years, this was a dream. I am curious to see what someone thinks of the short story if they've seen the film first. Does it feel lacking? Do the explanations and background help with some of the leaps in the film, if you felt there were some leaps to be made?
 
Good movie, but from the trailer I went in expecting something else. It's probably my fault but when I see a cool trailer my mind gets carried away and comes up with expectations for things I'd love to see. I have to stop doing that, I'm just setting myself up for disappointment that way.

Anyway, the twist was cool but I agree with someone here who said that it was kind of a cheap trick. The movie tells you that those are flashbacks, you have no reason the think otherwise. But that's not how the character sees it, so the audience and the character aren't on the same page until the twist. It's neat but it's only there for it's own sake.

The idea that a language can shape your mind is cool, that's probably the most thought-provoking concept in the movie. Seeing time as non linear is also interesting but very quickly you run into paradoxes.

I also felt like something was missing to get me to be on the same emotional wavelength of Amy Adam's character at the end. It feels like the movie wanted me to think that it was a good thing that she chose to have the daughter despite the tragedy ahead. I don't think I agree with that. And did she even have a choice? It wasn't clear if it was possible to know the future and also change it.
 
Prologue said:
But why didn't her future husband see this visions too? he was learning the language.
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foomfoom415 said:
He wasn't a superstar linguist so it's unlikely he'd ever reach the level of fluency needed to alter how he perceives the universe and start to remember the future.
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They said it in the film. Sometimes learning a language you get immersed (and they mention like living in another language for a time) and the way your mind perceives and understands things can change.

The husband may have learnt the language to an extent, and able to do translation etc, but as a an expert or an inherent talent in language or whatever, Louise was able to think in it. They establish that by showing how involved she got with it.

Consider in the real world someone who learns another language, even to a great fluency, but cannot quite get the syntax 100%, or retain an accent, or can do really good translations but not really formulate extensive text, or are just good at conversation and. It written.

That's different from thinking and breathing that language, something that they imply Louise gets to, being he expert and fully involved in deciphering the language.
 
Razorback PT said:
Good movie, but from the trailer I went in expecting something else. It's probably my fault but when I see a cool trailer my mind gets carried away and comes up with expectations for things I'd love to see. I have to stop doing that, I'm just setting myself up for disappointment that way.

Anyway, the twist was cool but I agree with someone here who said that it was kind of a cheap trick. The movie tells you that those are flashbacks, you have no reason the think otherwise. But that's not how the character sees it, so the audience and the character aren't on the same page until the twist. It's neat but it's only there for it's own sake.

The idea that a language can shape your mind is cool, that's probably the most thought-provoking concept in the movie. Seeing time as non linear is also interesting but very quickly you run into paradoxes.

I also felt like something was missing to get me to be on the same emotional wavelength of Amy Adam's character at the end. It feels like the movie wanted me to think that it was a good thing that she chose to have the daughter despite the tragedy ahead. I don't think I agree with that. And did she even have a choice? It wasn't clear if it was possible to know the future and also change it.
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It's not just the trick they use, but the entire epic story of alien arrival, world peace, etc is shoved into the corner when the revelation happens to make the entire story about Louise's daughter. Which can Be fine, but it the questions it leaves you thinking just makes it a tad unsatisfying.

It's like in sixth sense, but int hat movie the entire film was really personal and didn't really focus on the implications of ghosts being real for the rest of the world - the story remained intimate and consistent.

In arrival, they use the flashbacks then draw out and focus on the epic alien pest contact aspect for much of the film only to suddenly draw in again at the end to pay off the Louise story.

The movie is still great in my opinion but does lack that final polish to make the whole experience a complete package.
 
fr0st said:
I guess when she still wants to have a kid knowing what's gonna happen.
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Yeah, and *that* is the choice that her husband couldn't forgive. She started the process that leads to their child and everything falling apart as she died knowing that it would happen, and he couldn't forgive her for it. And of course, she made that choice knowing he couldn't.

But, all of this had me bawling. The original story brought me to tears too.
 
In the current world of divisions, I just ended up crying at the part when she whispers into the Chinese guy's ears to cause world peace. Such a simple action seems naive and doomed to be science fiction rather than us unite in reality that I couldn't hold it in anymore.
 
It was good. I thought for sure people would hate this film and be bored. Surprised to hear some people clap and one guy go "that was crazy!" I had read the short story a while back so the feels were contained to watery eyes but my wife was a wreck.
 
Arrival opened in 'only' 2300 theaters, about 60% of the number of Dr. Strange, so the auditoriums are gonna be a bit busier on average considering it's doing well and its release isn't as wide as some other flicks.
 
What a brilliant movie. Not even sure I can articulate my thoughts because they'll be all over the place. As mentioned somewhere before me, I appreciated the fact that we were just as confused as to what we were seeing she was, and then the realization hit her and the audience hard and then it all started coming together. I actually liked that the movie started with the flash forward. I don't look at it as a red herring at all especially since the narration is basically hinting at what it is, but we just didn't understand what she meant at the time of that narration. Also adds to the concept that time is non-linear. Us seeing that first doesn't matter.

My theatre was just dead silent when it was over, a lot of people were leaning forward with their chins resting on overlapping hands. That's when you know you nailed it.

Chris R said:
Good movie, but the dumbass soldier sub plot keeps it from being truly great for me :/
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I think calling it a "subplot" is a huge stretch. It was quick and it amounted to nothing, the point of it was to actually show that the aliens themselves were good natured when they saved the two. I'm sure there is another way to have done this but it was quick and effective and it didn't take up any of the movie I thought.
 
Great movie, as for the time flash forward events, all this was told in the very beginning, So seeing then as they happened want a surprise, and, quite honestly almost ruined it for me. I had to explain it to the missus though.
 
Initially I thought the soldier stuff was dumb but realizing after what happened the past week, I can easily believe the whole military angle.

These are people where their families are living in a state of constant fear due to the aliens. They're under constant stress and people would be stupid enough to believe in a 'first strike' approach.
 
Jarmel said:
Initially I thought the soldier stuff was dumb but realizing after what happened the past week, I can easily believe the whole military angle.

These are people where their families are living in a state of constant fear due to the aliens. They're under constant stress and people would be stupid enough to believe in a 'first strike' approach.
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100% believable and probable. But they brushed it aside right after it happened and it was poorly developed, it was a poorly constructed plot device that could have been accomplished by other things that weren't as, I don't know the word, but cheesy? It felt forced in and was telegraphed and poorly acted from the get go.

Only blemish to me on an amazing movie, totally nitpicking.
 
lt519 said:
100% believable and probable. But they brushed it aside right after it happened and it was poorly developed, it was a poorly constructed plot device that could have been accomplished by other things that weren't as, I don't know the word, but cheesy? It felt forced in and was telegraphed and poorly acted from the get go.

Only blemish to me on an amazing movie, totally nitpicking.
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Well there wasn't really much to discuss after it happened. Those soldiers were all dead and the bomb made the aliens withdraw a bit and set up a 'road block'. The remaining alien only wanted to speak with Louise.

It was to show how people might react in that situation in that not everybody would be all calm and want to hold lengthy drawn out talks. The movie spent a good amount of time showing how the US was going to shit because of the arrival such as riots everywhere. The aliens were causing chaos worldwide.
 
acohrs said:
It was incredible how what you thought were flashbacks were actually flash forwards. With that knowledge I need to see the film again. It feels like the ending flows perfectly back into the beginning, creating a nonlinear film structure.

Here's a question though, is the child actually real? When she was suffering from the dreams and imagined the hectopod at the Base that made me question if the girl was real or not, or just a dream by louisa of her time with the aliens after understanding their language. Am I crazy?

Edit: another reason I thought this is because the aliens ask louise and humanity for help. What else needs help from an adult but a child. So her seeing the aliens as a child in a dream would make sense

2nd edit: what if the scenes with her child are future visions of her and the aliens? We know there's a scene at the beginning of the film with her daughter who dies but she cares for her while she is dying. If the child represents the aliens and we know they came to humanity for help with something in the future, could that scene be a future vision of louisa helping the aliens?
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The girl is real, its her decision to have it, looking at the future, knowing the income. She see the future, but decide to still have her.
 
Jarmel said:
Well there wasn't really much to discuss after it happened. Those soldiers were all dead and the bomb made the aliens withdraw a bit and set up a 'road block'. The remaining alien only wanted to speak with Louise.

It was to show how people might react in that situation in that not everybody would be all calm and want to hold lengthy drawn out talks. The movie spent a good amount of time showing how the US was going to shit because of the arrival such as riots everywhere. The aliens were causing chaos worldwide.
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Not disagreeing that it was a plot device to get Louise in that situation. Just thought it was poorly done and a little cringe worthy compared to the rest of the film. I think they could have gotten there different/better ways. Again totally plausible, but couldn't help but think "oh come on" while it was happening. They go through the effort to set the bomb and have a gun fight with the military but decided they'll just let the scientists walk back on? Pulled me out of the moment so to speak.
 
fr0st said:
What was the parrot for?

I know they are trying to detect something but was unsure what it was.
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Not a parrot. A canary.

I thought that was a cool touch. Kind of a fun anachronism. You'd think the full force of the US federal government could have some fancy machines 'n shit. But it's always good to have an analog backup. I suppose if you didn't even know what dangers might be present on the ship, a canary's a good idea. Might be some radiation or biological agent or whatever that we haven't even invented machines to detect.
 
Brakke said:
Not a parrot. A canary.

I thought that was a cool touch. Kind of a fun anachronism. You'd think the full force of the US federal government could have some fancy machines 'n shit. But it's always good to have an analog backup. I suppose if you didn't even know what dangers might be present on the ship, a canary's a good idea. Might be some radiation or biological agent or whatever that we haven't even invented machines to detect.
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Oh wow, so that's the whole canary in a coal mine thing! Cool.
 
Brakke said:
Not a parrot. A canary.

I thought that was a cool touch. Kind of a fun anachronism. You'd think the full force of the US federal government could have some fancy machines 'n shit. But it's always good to have an analog backup. I suppose if you didn't even know what dangers might be present on the ship, a canary's a good idea. Might be some radiation or biological agent or whatever that we haven't even invented machines to detect.
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Wow. It make it even more amazing. Didnt knew that.
 
Yeah Louise specifically checked that the canary was still alive before taking off her equipment for the first time.

Amy Adams was phenomenal as expected. Great movie. Definitely one I'll be thinking about for a while.
 
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