Digital Foundry: Final Fantasy 15 PS4 vs PS4 Pro Gameplay Frame-Rate Test

I'm tempted to wait for the December Pro patch before starting this now, just to see if the frame pacing issue is addressed at all.

Very weird how the issue doesn't always happen when going through the same area for a second time, which hopefully it means there will be a fix for this.
 
One thing I'm still unclear on after watching that video -- Light Mode on the Pro is the same visual clarity as stock PS4 but sticks closer to native 1080p (but still dynamic) rather than the dynamic resolution on the stock PS4, correct?
 
One thing I'm still unclear on after watching that video -- Light Mode on the Pro is the same visual clarity as stock PS4 but sticks closer to native 1080p (but still dynamic) rather than the dynamic resolution on the stock PS4, correct?
You got it.
 
I find it a pretty night and day difference when switching between the two modes on my Pro.

HQ is clear, but a stuttery mess, while Light mode is solid, but blurred beyond belief.

It's nice to have the options right now, but there's no clear winner. If they can fix the frame pacing they might as well remove the Light mode entirely.
 
So I don't get it, having a Ps4 pro should I play with LQ or HQ in the mean time?
 
Well, good to know that it runs mostly solid 30FPS on the base PS4 with relatively few frame pacing issues, at least. Do we have any idea how often it holds 1080p?
 
Years of gaming with SLI & CFX has conditioned my eyes to accept frame-pacing :P

These stutter ain't shit compared to Far Cry 3 running on two 7950s!
 
Don't care about frame-pacing. Didn't bother me at all in Bloodborne.

Frame pacing issues didn't prevent me from beating and enjoying, say, Bloodborne, but I did notice it throughout. Before I actually knew what frame-pacing issues were (I learned this via Bloodborne tech analyses), I actually thought it was more or less just a quick micro-framerate drop.

I had similar issues with Darksiders II (that seem to still exist in the Deathinitive Edition rerelease when I attempted a re-install) on PC. My framerate tracking apps all reported a solid 60fps but there was a noticeable hitch every few seconds (which had a substantial impact on my attack timing) and it seems it was a frame pacing issue.

It depends on the severity, really. I feel like Bloodborne's issue isn't as frequent and disruptive as my experience with Darksiders II. It would occasionally make one of my inputs respond slightly unevenly, but not sure I can credit it with leading to any failures in playing the game like I can with Darksiders II. John's graph on the FFXV video looks like its a bit nightmarish -- even Darksiders II on PC didn't feel that frequent to me.

I'm personally likely to avoid the Heavy Mode in FFXV until a patch rolls along and some tests are done and can confirm the issue has been addressed. If they can at least set back the frequency with which a pacing issue occurs, then I think it might be somewhat acceptable. But for me, I'm definitely going to go Lite Mode to start given this report.
 
I personally like the High mode better than Lite on my pro.

I am bothered by flicker and shimmer A LOT more than judder or frame pacing. So High seems better for me for now.
 
Ugggghhhh. Cannot unsee. I didn't even know what frame pacing was ( I still don't, honestly). I hate you GAF.

After watching comparison footage you can clearly see it stuttering in the pro mode lol. Damn.
 
Frame pacing issues didn't prevent me from beating and enjoying, say, Bloodborne, but I did notice it throughout. Before I actually knew what frame-pacing issues were (I learned this via Bloodborne tech analyses), I actually thought it was more or less just a quick micro-framerate drop.

I had similar issues with Darksiders II (that seem to still exist in the Deathinitive Edition rerelease when I attempted a re-install) on PC. My framerate tracking apps all reported a solid 60fps but there was a noticeable hitch every few seconds (which had a substantial impact on my attack timing) and it seems it was a frame pacing issue.

It depends on the severity, really. I feel like Bloodborne's issue isn't as frequent and disruptive as my experience with Darksiders II. It would occasionally make one of my inputs respond slightly unevenly, but not sure I can credit it with leading to any failures in playing the game like I can with Darksiders II. John's graph on the FFXV video looks like its a bit nightmarish -- even Darksiders II on PC didn't feel that frequent to me.

I'm personally likely to avoid the Heavy Mode in FFXV until a patch rolls along and some tests are done and can confirm the issue has been addressed. If they can at least set back the frequency with which a pacing issue occurs, then I think it might be somewhat acceptable. But for me, I'm definitely going to go Lite Mode to start given this report.

i find it isn't very noticeable in general if you're just playing the game. forward motion especially doesn't make it very obvious. if you stand still and do slow camera pans then it stands out like a sore thumb though.
 
I'd definitely find it really obvious. Tales of Zestiria has the same issue on PC (constant frame pacing issues) and it's very noticeable despite my framerate counter running at a stable 30fps. Actually, the stuttering is what made me turn on a framerate counter as I thought I wasn't getting 30fps because of it.

No..it did.
Much in the same way it exists in Lite mode right now.

The thing to note is that Xbox version of Judgement demo had zero frame pacing issues and while we are mentioning platinum demo as an example to show that it won't improve, it's worth noting that platinum demo dropped framerate everywhere on top of improper framepacing while Judgement and final game doesn't.

So there's hope

Is it true that the Xbox One version doesn't exhibit any stuttering when the framerate is a stable 30fps? I've completely forgotten how it stacks up in the Judgement Demo - iirc Digital Foundry didn't look at it.
 
Ugggghhhh. Cannot unsee. I didn't even know what frame pacing was ( I still don't, honestly). I hate you GAF.

After watching comparison footage you can clearly see it stuttering in the pro mode lol. Damn.

Frame pacing is just where each frame that's rendered isn't paced evenly to provide a smooth image back to the player.

For example, with FFXV in Heavy Mode right now, the game is still actually producing 30 frames per second, but those frames are not being shown to you for the same amount of time, resulting in a stuttered delivery.

I mean, just breaking it down a little bit further, it's like in all 30 of the frames that were sent to your eyeballs in one second, frames 2 and 5 stayed on screen a bit longer than frames 3 and 6 that followed them, making frames 3 and 6 skip by really quick and the image from frame 2 and 5 staying on screen a bit longer than they're supposed to.

I mean, all of this happens in the span of a second and some people aren't sensitive to stuff like that, but given how frequently this issue is present in FFXV's heavy mode framerate, then I'd say it's likely to stand out more than other frame pacing issues.

EDIT - longer visual breakdown, a bit watered down from what actually happens:

Let's look at even, smooth frame pacing across 10 frames like my example in text above. Let's say that even frame pacing in this case is 3 units of time:

[1][1][1] , [2][2][2] , [3][3][3] , [4][4][4] , [5][5][5] , [6][6][6] , [7][7][7] , [8][8][8] , [9][9][9] , [10][10][10]

Each frame, 1-10, shows up for 3 units of time evenly paced, and the image that's fed back to the players vision is smoothly delivered. All occurs within 30 units of time total.

Uneven frame pacing, again borrowing exactly from above, kinda looks like:

[1][1][1] , [2][2][2][2] , [3][3] , [4][4][4] , [5][5][5][5] , [6][6] , [7][7][7] , [8][8][8] , [9][9][9] , [10][10][10]

Notice I made frame 2 show up for 4 units of time, and in order to match the same overall 30 units of time of delivery as the original example, frame 3 following only showed up for 2 units of time instead of 3 in an evenly paced setting. Same thing happens at frame 5, which is delivered to the viewer in 4 units of time, and 6 following only shows up for 2 units of time on screen. Still ultimately 10 frames delivered, still in a grand total of 30 units of time. The viewer is seeing frames 2 and 5 just slightly longer than they're supposed to, and seeing frames 3 and 6 slightly less as long as they're supposed to.

That's my best explanation of frame pacing, but it is a tad watered down.
 
Don't care about frame-pacing. Didn't bother me at all in Bloodborne.

Yeah same here, had zero problems with Bloodborne so this shouldn't be a problem. The video (thankfully) looks perfectly fine to me.

I've no idea what frame pacing is and tbh i don't think i wanna know. I was happy playing games with screen-tearing before GAF pointed it out to me. I can no longer unsee them now :(
 
Is it true that the Xbox One version doesn't exhibit any stuttering when the framerate is a stable 30fps? I've completely forgotten how it stacks up in the Judgement Demo - iirc Digital Foundry didn't look at it.
It is true.

It's perfect on Xbox One.

I think the reason is pretty simple, really; the Xbox One version uses an adaptive v-sync solution so, when slowdown does occur, you'll occasionally catch torn frames. PS4 uses a different method.

Based on my experience on the PC, this can have a direct impact on such problems and is likely why Xbox One doesn't share this issue. If they implemented the adaptive v-sync solution from XO into the PS4 version I suspect it would actually eliminate the problem.

So light mode goes below 1080P too?
Well, it might, but it seems to stick to 1080p most of the time. At least when I've counted.
 
I had no idea what frame pacing what till certain people starting throwing fits over it in Bloodborne on gaf. I had to really concentrate to figure out what the thing was. Luckily I COULD unsee it, which is a relief since it probably won't bother be in FF15 either.
 
Frame-pacing issues seem so much more prevalent as of late.

I wonder if it's difficult for devs to fix.

I think it is. I'm not 100% on what causes it but IIRC it's something like the logic taking longer to complete than the renderer or something along those lines. I'm no Dev though, just dabble and rendering is not something I know much about.

Its interesting actually that people often use the steps analogy to explain it yet I rarely read anything here about the cause itself.
 
I think most people who "can't see frame pacing issues" are in for a bit of a rude awakening when they flick that toggle back and forth.

Whether you can put up with it or not is whatever. I played all the way through Bloodborne and it didn't bother me, but you can't not notice the *difference* in this, when it has a quick setting that might as well say "fix frame pacing".
 
Frame-pacing issues seem so much more prevalent as of late.

I wonder if it's difficult for devs to fix.

I mean this must be the reason why From Software just never fixed it. Or developers are also disinterested in what they deem to be an issue anyone but the most discerning gamer will notice.

^^ Not excusing it, still a shitty practise even if true.
 
I find it a pretty night and day difference when switching between the two modes on my Pro.

HQ is clear, but a stuttery mess, while Light mode is solid, but blurred beyond belief.

It's nice to have the options right now, but there's no clear winner. If they can fix the frame pacing they might as well remove the Light mode entirely.

Come on now.
 
I've never been too affected by frame pacing frame from any of the souls game but will probably leave it on high mode because I'm almost certain to start seeing it if I switch back and forth.
 
I'd definitely find it really obvious. Tales of Zestiria has the same issue on PC (constant frame pacing issues) and it's very noticeable despite my framerate counter running at a stable 30fps. Actually, the stuttering is what made me turn on a framerate counter as I thought I wasn't getting 30fps because of it.



Is it true that the Xbox One version doesn't exhibit any stuttering when the framerate is a stable 30fps?
I've completely forgotten how it stacks up in the Judgement Demo - iirc Digital Foundry didn't look at it.
Yes all flat and solid from my tests of the judgement demo and my quick look at final game today is also just as smooth.

I covered this in my judgement demo analysis and will have more on full game including pro snd ps4 soon. I do not want to link to my video as I think it is against the rules but you can check on my channel.
 
I had no idea what frame pacing what till certain people starting throwing fits over it in Bloodborne on gaf. I had to really concentrate to figure out what the thing was. Luckily I COULD unsee it, which is a relief since it probably won't bother be in FF15 either.

It's a funny thing some people really don't notice framepacing much or at all. I too don't notice it. I've been playing the Pro HQ mode in the Judgment demo and in the final game for over a dozen of hours combined and I think it runs just fine and looks gorgeous on top of that.
 
I think most people who "can't see frame pacing issues" are in for a bit of a rude awakening when they flick that toggle back and forth.

Whether you can put up with it or not is whatever. I played all the way through Bloodborne and it didn't bother me, but you can't not notice the *difference* in this, when it has a quick setting that might as well say "fix frame pacing".
I notice the difference it's just not that big of a deal to me. I'm gonna choose a better image over frame pacing, easily.
 
Yeah, must be pretty crazy at 720p. It's bad enough at 1800p.

I still can't believe the high mode is 1800p. It's looks such a step down from the equivalent mode in other games.
The Iq is very "mushy" on the Xboxone and like the higher level on Pro this is exacerbated by the games Taa that is quite aggressive and prolonged across frames. Does help the shimmer on many areas, the great hair in the game can still fall foul to frequency issues mind.
 
The Iq is very "mushy" on the Xboxone and like the higher level on Pro this is exacerbated by the games Taa that is quite aggressive and prolonged across frames. Does help the shimmer on many areas, the great hair in the game can still fall foul to frequency issues mind.
So I saw someone streaming the Yakuza 6 demo, and they got probably better hair than Uncharted in cutscenes at least.
 
Top Bottom