Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Yeah, it's almost certainly placebo. Especially as I'm sure John didn't play through the tutorial each time he tested the game.
Digital Foundry: Final Fantasy 15 PS4 vs PS4 Pro Gameplay Frame-Rate Test
- Thread starter Nachtfalke
- Start date
CrichtonKicks
Member
Xbox One had worse frame rate too.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is objectively false.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Shame about the frame pacing, but i cannot imagine myself playing this game on anything but the highest visual quality possible, furthermore the little I've played of BB, frame pacing is a non issue for me at least 
Pro HQ mode it is for me
Hopefully the frame pacing is fixed in the December update so it becomes the best option universally.
Pro HQ mode it is for me
Hopefully the frame pacing is fixed in the December update so it becomes the best option universally.
cleveridea
Member
I still remember when the PS4 Pro was officially unveiled and the main reason I wanted one was for a good looking and running FFXV (I imagined either higher framerate or better draw distance on foliage etc)
Since I have a PC, I decided against buying the pro and just keeping my regular PS4 - and expected to feel like I would be playing a inferior version of the game vs pro (eg at 30fps vs 60)
Its all ended up quite strange where I dont miss buying a Pro at all. I imagine as games come out that have been custom developed around its capabilities, it will end up with substantially superior games even at 1080p - like tomb raider has done.
Ah well, this game and Watchdogs 2 (PC) same day looks like a lot of game for the money.
Since I have a PC, I decided against buying the pro and just keeping my regular PS4 - and expected to feel like I would be playing a inferior version of the game vs pro (eg at 30fps vs 60)
Its all ended up quite strange where I dont miss buying a Pro at all. I imagine as games come out that have been custom developed around its capabilities, it will end up with substantially superior games even at 1080p - like tomb raider has done.
Ah well, this game and Watchdogs 2 (PC) same day looks like a lot of game for the money.
I would say PS4P lite version is the best version. Better IQ and almost no frame time problems. The XBO has horrible IQ and frame tears/drops.
worst frame rate actually and worst IQ. Framepacing is anotehr story, some people don't even notice it, I could never tell in bloodborne for starter.
But has anyone tried inserting PS1 FF7 into the disc drive during the tutorial, saving their game, plugging in a microphone and singing Moonlight Sonata into the mic while putting the Dummy Finger up their butt?
Could be real.
Ha ha, tremendous. I, of course, did not play the tutorial at all before capture. It's unrelated. As I said in the video, it can manifest in a scene one time and not appear the next. It's not tied specifically to any areas, per se.
Interesting I wonder if they just didn't worry about fixing it on day one because they already had the December patch planned. Alternatively they may not know exactly what is causing it if it is so random.
NXGamer
Member
This version will be near identical to the Judgement demo, tests put this about the same.Getting more patches through cert would not be the best use of time for them.
The December patch should offer up further options to hopefully mitigate the pacing issues the PlayStation versions have in the already greatly reduced lite mode, this is again identical to my findings from the judgement demo.
What is odd about this issue is that it was evident all the way back in the Platinum demo. There were more issues there in terms of actual slowdown but PS4 exhibited frame pacing issues just like we see now while Xbox One did not.
This was not a problem in the original Duscae demo, however. Both versions ran way slower in that build but neither exhibited actual frame pacing problems like this.
I fear that they aren't entirely aware of the issue at all (not the first time that has occurred).
Maintenance
Member
Terrible frame pacing is just as bad as low frame rates to me.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
My worry is that they consider the Lite version the fix, as it does state it's the option for improved performance, despite both versions being a mostly steady 30fps, so it can only really be referring to the smooth frame pacing.
I was hoping a tiny bit that the IQ for Xbone would be a bit better, but I knew that would be super unlikely.
It's strange to see Square Enix proving to be a little bit incompetent with technology, when almost all of the PS2 FF games were very great at taking advantage of the system's power.
How can the game's developer not be aware of frame pacing issues in their own title? Also, are frame pacing issue easily rectified, or is that engine dependent?
The higher the framerate, the less noticeable frametime issues can be.
I asked dark10x if he knew what the visible cut-off point would be, but I guess it's one of those irrelevant theory questions no one's bothered to figure out.
NXGamer
Member
I agree it is a great shame, a beautiful game that is reduced by the Iq. Even an option to turn off the Taa for a boost to the median resolution would be a relatively simple choice for Xboxone owners.
I fear though that with a "stable" performance and vastly reduced interest in Ms machine, marketing deal aside, it will not received as much attention as it's PlayStation partner.
chromatic9
Member
Wouldn't the Lite mode suggest they do, so play this basic mode if you have problems kinda thing? Its not bells and whistles or unlocked frame rate mode and more a like a base mode offered but at 1080p while we work on it.
Liabe Brave
Member
Unfortunately you're getting neither. Xbox One has the worst framerate and the worst graphics.
Then you want the PS4 Pro. Its light mode has the best performance and second-best IQ.
The fact that there's a performance difference (and IQ) means you are losing out, on better performance (and IQ). You may not care, but you're getting a worse experience.
Note that Digital Foundry also found that framepacing problems differed from run-to-run through the same areas. So the tutorial probably isn't directly responsible, but the issues do come and go.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Nope, wrong. I skipped. Bad frame pacing still, kinda tolerable on lite mode. Fuck Square tbh. Sick of this shit.
I thought the frame-pacing issue was in every PS4 "versions" ?
I heard somewhere test pilots could see images pop up for 1 / 220th of a second, but I've no idea where.
It is but it much rarer in the lite mode. At the moment the pro Lite mode seems to be the best option for IQ and Performance. It seems like they should be able to fix the pacing but we won't know until they comment on it or the december patch comes out. I am guessing most of the performance work for PS4 and Pro will be in that.
Liabe Brave
Member
But the Xbox One version doesn't have the best framerate. It has the worst framerate. When it hits 30fps the framepacing is locked, unlike the Playstation versions. But it hits 30fps less often than they do.
RedAssedApe
Banned
never bothered me in bloodborne so hopefully won't bother me here
I'd imagine the TAA is having almost no performance hit. It's just a very poor implementation of it I suppose. Respawn's TSAA for example, would have cleaned up some more AA while looking better.
I'm just going to assume that dynamic resolution solutions are difficult to work with regard to AA techniques, and just suggest that Square Enix shoehorned it in late in development to improve the framerate.
Ah, well, that should be a nice compromise then. I rewatched the video and it's true that the framepacing is much less noticeable in the Lite mode. I wish there wasn't even compromise to make as it makes no sense that two versions out of the four have frame pacing issues that the two others doesn't have.
That is at the complete opposite of what I've read in other threads. I guess I'll look forward to the Digital Foundry video on this matter then.
The Mario Kart 8 issue manifests in a different way.
In that case, the game would basically pause for an extra 16.7ms every 64 frames. So it was like clockwork with a constant "tick". I found it distracting but nowhere near as problematic as bad frame pacing.
How does it differ? An attempt to explain...
Well, when frame persistence is variable, you're basically getting a run of frames that will remain on screen for differing periods of time.
On a 60hz display, each frame must display for 16.7ms in order to deliver 60fps. Effectively, 30fps requires each frame to appear for 33ms. Right?
So when it goes bad you might have frame 1 appear for 50ms, frame 2 appear for 16.7ms and then frame 3 for 33ms. This variation is what results in a jerky sensation since frames are all on screen for different lengths of time.
It seems bizarre, I know, but we've seen it happen several times now and developers returned to us with responses of "oh wow, we totally missed that. Thanks for illustrating the issue." I mean, shipping a game is an insanely complex thing so I can see how issues might slip through especially when some people don't seem to notice such problems for some reason. How it persists during development for so long without any questions does confound me, however.
SynthFetish
Member
I don't see anything jarring or unusual.
Guess I'm not sensitive to these things. ¯_(ツ
_/¯
Guess I'm not sensitive to these things. ¯_(ツ
_/¯
John Wick
Member
Or Don't! If it isn't noticeable to you or doesn't affect your enjoyment why would you wanna start now and spoil games for yourself???
I don't know about that, haha.
But with regard to frame timing, the ideal time between frames is 16.7ms ~ with the worse frame pacing issues, you could game frames hitting +/- 16.7ms before and after the last time (so long as nothing is dropped). At 30fps, you have twice the space between frames, so it's possible for frames to miss their target by a wider margin.
With, say, 144fps -- frames want to be ~6.9ms apart. Even with uneven frame pacing, they are appearing on screen with less margin of error. I'm sure it's still noticeable if it's very bad:
say...
------7------7------7------7------7------7------ being ideal, but you're getting
-2-----1------------7-2----------6----4--------- being horrific
I'm sure, though, that even if the timing is bad, eventually it reaches a point where even if it's uneven and juddy, it would be interpolated (?) enough that it would appear smooth anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
edit: I took so long formatting my shitty ascii frame-time graph that I didn't get to see that dark10x said that exact same thing anyway.
Between that, the performance and the hateful chromatic aberration, there's not a lot to like about Bloodborne visuals.
Ah, cool. I never played Mario Kart 8 so I was just assuming.
Not just Bungie. There have been other examples of this as well going all the way back to launch with NFS Rivals.
Heck, Mafia 3 released with horrible frame pacing recently and, within a week of release, they fixed it completely.
I had to look it up and found a great explanation here: https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlik..._what_is_frame_pacing_in_video_games_and_how/
The two best posts:
and
Liabe Brave
Member
It is, but very minimally in PS4 Pro light mode. By contrast, the Xbox One version has perfect framepacing when it's at 30fps...but unlike the PS4 versions, it drops from 30fps and the screen tears. That definitely makes it choppier.
But why call this "v-sync" rather than "capped framerate"? Surely the only reasonable definition of "v-sync" is that framerate is synced to the display's vertical refresh. And look at what this game actually does. The PS4 versions produce frames at 33.3ms or 16.6ms, but nothing else. The Xbox version produces frames that are 33.3ms or freely longer. Why would just the latter be "adaptive v-sync"? It's the only method producing frames that don't match display refresh rate! If that's "adaptive v-sync", surely the Sony versions are too.
But the clearest and most accurate thing, I think, would be to say that Xbox is capped at 30fps with perfect framepacing and no v-sync. Whereas PS4 is locked at 30fps with varying framepacing issues and no v-sync.
Nachtfalke
Member
Any news on Rise of the Tomb Raider on PS4(Pro) in this regard?
Same. Was barely noticeable to me in that and I must have sunk over 100 hours into BB.
I'm going to do the same. Wait for a patch and use my Christmas vacation to just engulf myself in the game. I have plenty of new games to play until then.