Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Frozenprince
Banned
Nah it's a pretty simple subject.
It's only complex to people who have hate in their hearts.
My neighbor is that same exact stereotypical working class lesbian with the flannel shirt straight of a video as he describes Ellie. Unfortunately she remains single and she's around 50. She's actually quite an asshole, so I hope Ellie does find love for the sake of the people around her.
Edit: Someone at ND has to be trolling Ellen Page. In the first game Ellie looks identical, now she comes out and Ellie comes out? Hmm lol
Edit: Someone at ND has to be trolling Ellen Page. In the first game Ellie looks identical, now she comes out and Ellie comes out? Hmm lol
It is, but there are cases where that criticism could seem kind of valid, like Loras from Game of Thrones. Luckily we have nothing to fear here with Druckmann.
What I do want however, as strange as it sounds, is some sort of romance scene- not necessarily a sex scene but even something like Elena/Drake from UC4, we have a lot of these male characters but never with female characters unless its some Bioware RPG. In a game this big, that would be huge, and would surely also garner a lot of controversy- I can already imagine the squirming, and it actually might piss a lot of players off- but it would be a bold and frankly inevitable move if we are to ever move past games as male fantasies.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
8 pages of this shit? I thought you were cool, GAF.
So according to you I'm a hateful person? Ok.
Something I feel like a lot of you guys are missing is that, for a gay man or woman, having your sexuality be an integral or defining part of your identity does not equate to being a series of gay stereotypes. It shouldn't have to be said that gay people exist who aren't rainbow blast out and obvious or spot the difference "mmh maybe"s. Your sexuality can be an important part of how you view yourself or act and still be subtle. It can be something you wear on your sleeve without being the walking distraction people seem to conjure into their minds.
Representation of a minority (or any) group should cover a wide spectrum. People who don't identify themselves with either extremes of the spectrum (which based off of personal experience and even other posters here in this thread, I'm going to go out on a limb and say is a lot of people), should be able to find someone they can personally identify with as well. There's room for more than 2 types of gay characters in fiction.
Representation of a minority (or any) group should cover a wide spectrum. People who don't identify themselves with either extremes of the spectrum (which based off of personal experience and even other posters here in this thread, I'm going to go out on a limb and say is a lot of people), should be able to find someone they can personally identify with as well. There's room for more than 2 types of gay characters in fiction.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Actual heterosexual relationships were in AAA/RPGs before homosexual ones and way more accepted. And the quote I replied to wanted Ellie to be bi or straight for a fucking agenda of wanting manbabies to cry.
Stop raggin on Ellie cause she ain't straight or bi enough so you can circlejerk about how progressive she is. Do you not see the reaction in this very thread to how she is gay? You seriously think there would this kind of reaction if she were straight? Stop wanting the characters to be something else. Neil created her as a lesbian in mind and directed her as such evidenced by the quote he gave. Ellie's gay and there ain't shit you can do about it.
Frozenprince
Banned
Do you think it's complicated to have a character be gay?
I think it's pretty simple to have a character be gay.
Or trans.
Or black.
Or hispanic.
Or straight.
Because it doesn't matter what they are as long as they are represented and represented equitably.
I don't understand this argument at all. We played as Joel and some of the most emotional moments came from him being straight.
Eurghhh
Literally can't even with this post
CalamityPixel
Member
Being Super gay in the apocalypse would be super hard. I imagine finding a straight relationship would be very hard, could not imagine trying to find a gay relationship at humanities end.
The chances of finding a gay partner within a dwindling population and maintaining a stable relationship with all that's going on around them would be ridiculously tough. It makes good story though, you could touch about how Ellie is lonely and her struggles of finding a partner; if she has a partner already you can already jump into the age old story of maintaining a relationship in apocalypse.
It's also possible she could even end up like Bill from the first game, it was heavily implied he was gay and had a past relationship that did not survive.
"Once upon a time, I had somebody that I cared about. It was a partner. Somebody I had to look after. And in this world, that sort of shit's good for one thing: gettin' you killed."
She could inherit that kind of attitude towards having a partner.
The chances of finding a gay partner within a dwindling population and maintaining a stable relationship with all that's going on around them would be ridiculously tough. It makes good story though, you could touch about how Ellie is lonely and her struggles of finding a partner; if she has a partner already you can already jump into the age old story of maintaining a relationship in apocalypse.
It's also possible she could even end up like Bill from the first game, it was heavily implied he was gay and had a past relationship that did not survive.
"Once upon a time, I had somebody that I cared about. It was a partner. Somebody I had to look after. And in this world, that sort of shit's good for one thing: gettin' you killed."
She could inherit that kind of attitude towards having a partner.
It is a shame that these 2 issues have overlap. I want Ellie to be gay and I want it to play a part just like relationships did for Joel. But it also annoys me greatly that we don't have women protagonists in games who have scripted straight relationships. Games where you make the choice yourself not included.
I think both come from a place of homophobia.
Frozenprince
Banned
It must really be nice to be straight.
You're so conditioned to heteronormativity that you don't even notice that it's in LITERALLY EVERYTHING. I can't get away from heterosexual intimacy, ever, not for one moment of one day, because it's everywhere. It defines pop culture. It defines popular music. It defines even art.
So if I get a respite from that and something is finally representative of people on the spectrum it's such a refreshing change of pace and breath of fresh air that I can't imagine not having these things. Luckily for me, and most importantly, for LGBT youth still struggling with self identity, these portrayals are becoming more and more noticed and ratified in normality.
But it's not NEARLY enough.
Koopatrol
Member
If I recall correctly, I believe Ellen Page came out on the same day that Left Behind was released. Pretty weird lol.
So on order for people like me to be represented in video games we have to justify our existence while simultaneously being so subtle and hidden that nobody notices that we are there, lest we make straight teenage boys and bigots uncomfortable.
Totally fair considering all those hoops straight people have to jump through jist to be treated like normal right?
I thought GAF was better than this
Totally fair considering all those hoops straight people have to jump through jist to be treated like normal right?
I thought GAF was better than this
Very well said, perfectly sums up how I feel
what is wrong with just causes?
Even if unknowingly so, but yeah pretty much.
Actually I'm 99% sure the DLC Left Behind, where Ellie is revealed to be into girls, came out the exact same day Ellen Page publicly came out. It was the most surreal coincidence. I remember it because I recall reading the news about her as I was playing the DLC right after it became available lol.
Brat-Sampson
Member
People not wanting it 'shoe-horned in just because...' seem to be ignoring the fact it was already introduced in the DLC. It shouldn't be called forced if an already established gay character is still gay in the sequel. It sounds like basically you can only be gay in a reveal or a twist, then you have to essentially never reference it again afterwards. Like as though if this game is a revenge story against someone who killed Ellie's love, and near the end it's revealed she was a girl all along, that's ok, but if she's an established character with a face and a story who Ellie thinks about too often, that'll be forced and bad story telling.
I personally count Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn as AAA so no, and I wouldn't consider player choice(Mass Effect/Fallout) a gay character.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Heh, yeah some of the posters tend to yell "fuckboi" a little too hard, myself included, when it comes to some topics of identity politics and such. I realize that and have to make sure I'm conversing with a poster and not just doing some circlejerk. The constant snark is grating and only self serving after all.
But some posters are legitimately pissed at some others that won't accept gay characters, so tempers will flare. That's a GAF forum thread for ya.
Lol for someone to be gay in a game y'all need some big reason but consider straight to be default.
Frozenprince
Banned
You forgot "There's more to her character than that".
We'll all be dead before page 5.
JimmyRustler
Member
The whole topic was very subtle in the DLC and also she was a kid there. Going from her having feelings for her best/only friend Riley to being gay as a grown up is a bit a stretch if you ask me.
I mean, it would be a good opportunity to establish a gay character in a big game but given the AAA nature of this game it would be a HUGE gamble for Sony and ND. For as much as GAF wants to claim otherwise, a lot of people care about this stuff.
Having a female main protagonist in such a AAA game is already a big gamble, having a gay female protagonist is an even bigger gamble given how much this game will probably cost to make. But props for Sony if they want to take that risk.
That said, I don't think that Ellies sexuality will play a big role in this game and if it does it will be again very, very subtle.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
lol i'm at work
Earthpainting
Member
It would certainly give this a more unique angle to explore. The Last of Us was a little bit too vanilla for my taste, like it lacked a hook. Making it "super gay" or exploring it from a female point of view could be just what it needs.
Yah that's definitely what I said and not just thinking that male romantic interests for playable characters is almost just as uncommon as a gay relationship.
What you suggest I said wasn't the argument I was making or said or suggested even remotely close to it. I was simply countering your point at Morrigan Stark that her wanting a heterosexual relationship for a female *playable* character is not also a progressive stance. It is. It's just a different flavor.
Like I said, there's a clear avoidance of having the playable character in games having a romantic male interest unless it's Bioware choose-your-own-interest and even then when you have people react like shitheads to a character like Anders from Dragon Age 2 that hit on the player character, it's obvious that a lot of straight men are uncomfortable with the idea of a guy hitting on them and reacting violently rather than taking it in stride or self-evaluating their reactions.
But this is a huge tangent and my point is just that wanting more male romantic interests for playable leads is also a progressive stance to take and that was the only point I was trying to make. Ellie is cool. It's cool that Ellie is gay.
This very character is pretty much shoehorned into DS3 to act as a "level up waifu" for the Target demographic.
Even in a series as good about these things as Dark Souls,its there.
TurboButts
Member
edit: nevermind, not worth the argument
I get that there's enough of a history of one-dimensional token gay stereotypes for people to be a little concerned, but it still feels weird for me to see this type of criticism pop up again and again whenever this issue appears. No character would be good if they were defined solely by one characteristic. That's true no matter what race, gender, sexuality, religion, or nationality the character is.
So why does this only come up with regards to minority representation?
Given Naughty Dog's track record with their main characters (including Ellie! Who is lesbian!) I don't know why there would be any cause for concern. However she's handled, I'm sure she will come across as a fully-fledged individual.
The trailer's not really setting the tone for a game where she finds another woman who cares for her and they get together and are happy, though.
Since games handle sexuality of any kind so well. Jesus Christ, now I'm a bigot. I'm not great at communicating on forums, but I'm a huge supporter of the LGBT community and would love nothing more to see more gay characters in anything.. I think I'm done..
Man I hope she's super gay too. I hope she's so visibly gay I get to read tears and tears from casually homophobic straight people.
You're gonna need an ambulance pretty fast.
Frozenprince
Banned
That doesn't matter. You should know this.
At the end of the day, it's still Ellie, and it's still set in TLoU's universe. Her environment doesn't exactly give people many opportunities to allow themselves to be vulnerable enough to show affection. In a way, that's what gives the first game's intimate or emotional moments so much weight - the fact that they contrast so starkly with the rest of the experience. Seeing that capacity for love or joy from someone who is forced to be ruthless in their struggle to survive can be very powerful. That is why Ellie's (or anyone else's) sexual orientation doesn't really matter much within the game's universe. Ultimately, you're always dealing with people trying to live another day, and trying to find what little comfort they can with one another or by themselves.
That aside, I think ND have handled character relationships rather well in their past games, and I have no real reason to believe that would change here, either way.
That aside, I think ND have handled character relationships rather well in their past games, and I have no real reason to believe that would change here, either way.
Conciliator
Banned
Perhaps not entirely a coincidence, in a sense.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
It has some more neat gameplay elements and other stuff in it. Definitely play it, now.
RocknRola
Member
Yeah, go for it. It's cool (or rather I liked it). Does enough things differently to the main game to justify at least trying it.
Forearm Star
Member
ImOkayWithThis.gif
This was a part of Ellie's character to begin with and I'd hate if they compromised this to fit some "can't relate" agenda or they shoehorned her being straight.
This was a part of Ellie's character to begin with and I'd hate if they compromised this to fit some "can't relate" agenda or they shoehorned her being straight.
The LGBT community is massively overlooked when it comes to videogames. It's about time we were represented. It was subtly implied in TLoU about Ellie's sexuality -- now Naughty Dog have the chance to properly represent the LGBT community.
What was subtle about her kiss with Riley?