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[DragoonKain]

Putting your vengeance ahead of your family isn't related to parenting?

Lying to your kid isn't related to parenting? Killing someone close to your child isn't related to parenting? Robbing her of a choice you know she wants to make isn't related to parenting?

Being better wasn't simply about not beating them. That's such a myopic view of what they were talking about. Joel's grandfather didn't beat his father because he was a bad parent, it's because he made bad choices in order to protect his kid and Joel's father did the same thing. Those choices alienated them from their kids, just as Joel's decisions alienate him from Ellie.

Joel's grandfather was trying to prevent Joel's father from becoming a thief. He wanted to keep him on the right side of the law. He went too far, but Joel's father ends up becoming a police officer. That's probably not a coincidence. Joel's father similarly wanted to keep his boys out of trouble which is why he hits them. He's heartbroken when he realizes that his kids feel the same way about him that he felt about his dad.



It's a different medium with a different focus, but Game Joel is way more emotional than you're letting on to.

Pedro will probably win an emmy because of his performances in season 2.

I don't believe that they are, no. When I think of parenting, I think of core general values you pass on to your kids. Engaging in a very specific act, that is specific to these two individuals only, is not what I'd consider a "parenting moment." In the conversation Joel is talking about a very specific thing he did in a very specific moment. Wiping out an entire hospital of people. 99.9999% of people in this world are not going to be put in a situation where they have to do this same thing. I may say even 100% considering this specific instance involved Ellie and her immunity--the only known immune person on the planet. And in the context of the conversation I don't think it really fits. "I hope you do a little better than me." Meaning, he hopes if she's in a position to save a child in the future she wouldn't choose revenge over her kid? Joel himself says he'd do it all over again. So Joel's values are that you save your children no matter what. If that's what he believes, then he should hope Ellie follows the same path. Protecting your kids above all else. I think Joel feels regret lying to Ellie, not much regret about killing everyone, which is why he'd do it all over again.

Compare that to Joel the kid flashback where his father clearly has regret and shame about beating his child. A little different there. Do I think dropping that line there was the worst thing in the world? No. Do I think it ruined the scene? No. But I don't think it quite fit juxtaposed to the callback to how his dad used it to him.

 

[viveks86]

Meaning, he hopes if she's in a position to save a child in the future she wouldn't choose revenge over her kid?

Meaning he hopes she would be a better parental figure to her child than he was to her. That's it. Has nothing to do with saving or revenge.

He's just saying she currently doesn't understand what a parent's love for a child would make them do and if she does get a chance to be a parent, he hopes she would understand and do better (in whatever manner the situation presents itself), just like he strived to do better with Sarah and Ellie than his own dad did for him. You are trying to juxtapose granular details that were never meant for that line.

 

[DragoonKain]

Meaning he hopes she would be a better parental figure to her child than he was to her. That's it. Has nothing to do with saving or revenge.

He's just saying she currently doesn't understand what a parent's love for a child would make them do and if she does get a chance to be a parent, he hopes she would understand and do better (in whatever manner the situation presents itself), just like he strived to do better with Sarah and Ellie than his own dad did for him. You are trying to juxtapose granular details that were never meant for that line.

Guess we are just going to disagree on what he meant by that line. I think he did mean what he did in the hospital.

I was supposed to die, my life would have fucking mattered, but you took that from me. You took it from everyone.
Yes. And I'll pay the price. Because you're gonna turn away from me. But somehow if I had a second chance at that moment I'd do it all over again.
Because you're selfish
Because I love you.
In a way, you could never understand. Maybe you never will. But if that day should come. Should you ever have one of your own. Well then, I hope you do a little better than me.

I believe he was absolutely talking about his decision to kill everyone in the hospital with those lines. If you don't, we can agree to disagree there.

 

[viveks86]

Guess we are just going to disagree on what he meant by that line. I think he did mean what he did in the hospital.

I was supposed to die, my life would have fucking mattered, but you took that from me. You took it from everyone.
Yes. And I'll pay the price. Because you're gonna turn away from me. But somehow if I had a second chance at that moment I'd do it all over again.
Because you're selfish
Because I love you.
In a way, you could never understand. Maybe you never will. But if that day should come. Should you ever have one of your own. Well then, I hope you do a little better than me.

I believe he was absolutely talking about his decision to kill everyone in the hospital with those lines. If you don't, we can agree to disagree there.

So according to you, Joel was saying:

"Well, if you need to choose between shooting up a whole hospital or losing your kid, I hope you handle it better than me"

You think this is what the director's intent was as the parting line to an iconic and emotional scene between a sad father and an angry daughter?

If so, then yeah, agree to disagree

 

[DragoonKain]

So according to you, Joel was saying:

"Well, if you need to choose between shooting up a whole hospital or losing your kid, I hope you handle it better than me"

You think this is what the director's intent was as the parting line to an iconic and emotional scene between a sad father and an angry daughter?

If so, then yeah, agree to disagree

If your interpretation is right, then I think it still makes my case for me that the line doesn't fit based on when it was used in the conversation. Given it directly followed her saying she was supposed to die to save others and he took that away from her. Basically my entire point it's not a huge deal that the line was used, but I think the scene would have been better without it and without the cold open scene with the dad. I don't think it really added anything other than trying to throw in a tear jerking moment just for the sake of it. I think the scene was plenty emotional enough already and Joel is fine as a parent. Great, even. He's better as a parent than he is as a person tbh. And I think they added it in there so they could call back to it in the series finale. But we'll see about that in time.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Guess we are just going to disagree on what he meant by that line. I think he did mean what he did in the hospital.

I was supposed to die, my life would have fucking mattered, but you took that from me. You took it from everyone.
Yes. And I'll pay the price. Because you're gonna turn away from me. But somehow if I had a second chance at that moment I'd do it all over again.
Because you're selfish
Because I love you.
In a way, you could never understand. Maybe you never will. But if that day should come. Should you ever have one of your own. Well then, I hope you do a little better than me.

I believe he was absolutely talking about his decision to kill everyone in the hospital with those lines. If you don't, we can agree to disagree there.

Ellie knows Joel has killed innocent people before. She doesn't care about that.

What she cares about is that her purpose has been stripped from her by the person she trusts the most in the world.

That's what Joel feels regret about the schism between them. Him telling her he would do it again, means that he would strip her of agency again and justify it because he loves her. The reason why she says she doesn't know if she can forgive him has nothing to do with killing the people in the hospital, other than maybe the doctor and a bit Marlene... She didn't really know Marlene. She knew her for a couple days, max. What Marlene meant to her was giving her this greater purpose after the sacrifice and loss of everyone around her; Riley, Tess, Sam, Henry...
Put that in contrast with the loss of Jesse and her pursuit of vengeance over everything. That's where she fails to be better than Joel and pretty hypocritical.

 

[DragoonKain]

Ellie knows Joel has killed innocent people before. She doesn't care about that.

What she cares about is that her purpose has been stripped from her by the person she trusts the most in the world.

That's what Joel feels regret about the schism between them. Him telling her he would do it again, means that he would strip her of agency again and justify it because he loves her. The reason why she says she doesn't know if she can forgive him has nothing to do with killing the people in the hospital, other than maybe the doctor and a bit Marlene... She didn't really know Marlene. She knew her for a couple days, max. What Marlene meant to her was giving her this greater purpose after the sacrifice and loss of everyone around her; Riley, Tess, Sam, Henry...
Put that in contrast with the loss of Jesse and her pursuit of vengeance over everything. That's where she fails to be better than Joel and pretty hypocritical.

I agree with all of that. That's why I thought the "be a little bit better than me" line felt out of place to me.

 

[viveks86]

If your interpretation is right, then I think it still makes my case for me that the line doesn't fit based on when it was used in the conversation. Given it directly followed her saying she was supposed to die to save others and he took that away from her.

That's not what it directly follows. It follows him saying "I love you… in a way that you won't understand". He is saying you need to be a parent to understand his desire to protect her life (and innocence) at any cost, even if that dooms all of humanity. He has already accepted that he took her purpose away from her and will bear the price for it. He even admits they could have found a cure, when it's just as easy to argue otherwise. He is thinking like most protective parents would. He wants her to live another day no matter what, so she can find a new, different purpose, even if that means she permanently distances from him.

Basically my entire point it's not a huge deal that the line was used, but I think the scene would have been better without it and without the cold open scene with the dad. I don't think it really added anything other than trying to throw in a tear jerking moment just for the sake of it.

It adds way, way more than that. Here are some that stood out to me:

• The cold opening establishes who Joel was as a person even before we got to know him, for both tv viewers and gamers. He was the protective older brother who was willing to lie and face punishment so he can keep the ones he love safe. He may have even hurt his father if he touched Tommy again.
• It establishes a 3 instance pattern of him using lying as a means to protect. The first that we now know is to protect Tommy. Then when he lies about the fireflies to protect Ellie's innocence. Then the lying about Eugene to protect Gail's memory of her husband's final moments. Also to protect Ellie from directly witnessing a tragic death of an innocent man on her first patrol. The first scene shows that he is willing to lie to even be punished, while the other 2 could help him avoid (emotional) punishment from Ellie and Gail. So, regardless of consequence, they are establishing that "lying to protect" is in his nature.
• It reminds us of Tommy's bond with Joel. This will likely play out in the next episode if Tommy shows up. Or they stretch it to next season so Team Ellie continues to get some screen time, if any.
• It establishes his upbringing, so they can demonstrate to us throughout the episode how he was doing better as a parent than his own father, which then justifies his closing line.
• The closing line would be unnecessary, even ill-fitting, if TV show Joel was the same as game Joel. But they have already established that he is not. He is far more expressive, emotional and flexible. He even goes to therapy. Game Joel is reserved and stubborn. A man of few words that would stick a knife in his eye before seeking therapy. They still have the same core but they clearly behave and cope differently. I like both portrayals. It makes sense that TV show Joel, given his personality, simply had more to say than "I will do it all over again". And repeating what his father said works here because he was reminded of his encounter with his dad, where his dad sensed that his son detests him. In this case, Joel realizes that Ellie doesn't see him as super dad anymore, but just a selfish man that she would probably grow to hate (or hates already). He is basically saying "Hey, I'm doing my best given my own upbringing. I've protected, not punished, you every chance I got and will love you unconditionally. It was always the carrot. Unlike my dad, there is no stick. If despite all that, i still seem selfish to you, then so be it. But I hope you will understand if or when you have a child of your own. And I hope you will do better for them than I did for you". Has nothing to do with the actual details of the beatings or the killings. All that's irrelevant to what is being conveyed. He is sharing the basic goal of any self aware parent. To raise his child better than he was raised. He is pouring his heart out to her in the hope of healing their relationship, but it unintentionally doubles up as a farewell message.

And I think they added it in there so they could call back to it in the series finale. But we'll see about that in time.

May be. Or may be they have something else planned entirely. We will have to wait and see.

You may not agree with most of that. But that's fine. It's just my take. I don't think there is a right or wrong interpretation anyway. The material allows for a lot of subjectivity. My issue would be with claims that it was shallow or thoughtless. Whether it worked for the viewer (or not) is more interesting to me. For you it seems like it didn't the first time around. And that's cool. You are looking further than Bella's allegedly autistic face and are thinking about all this, so we are not wasting time on the topic!

 

[Stafford]

There is no way I'd keep this from you guys, this is too good, lol.

 

[Ulysses 31]

 

[DeepEnigma]

Spoiler

With only one episode to go and assuming the season will end with the theather scene with tommy losing an eye and jesse dying wonder how much time we will get to see ellie kill the pregant woman and her husband and their dog.

hopefully to go all in and make her kill them

You won't see Alice get killed until we have the Abby parts with Alice being played with and the goodest of girls.

 

[Edgelord79]

Giving Season 1 another watch and enjoying it more than the first time but holy fuck is Elle a detestable and annoying character in the show.

 

[Stafford]

The actress from the movie Civil War in terms of how she looks and how likeable she is would've been a way better fit than Ramsey.

 

[DragoonKain]

I hated it the finale. They turned game Ellie from revenge crazed into not wanting to kill anybody and admitting in this she didn't kill Nora. What the hell man. This is so lame. I don't get why they are changing it that much. Why are they so afraid to portray Ellie and Joel as hardened in this show compared to the games?

I honestly think I'll enjoy season 3 more than 2 because I think they will do Abby well.

 

[Woggleman]

The show has attracted quite a large audience with the suburban mom demographic and I guess they are afraid of getting too dark.

 

[Gripsx]

My non-gaming wife absolutely hated that finale, calls the season a waste of her time

 

[adamsapple]

Oh my fucking god, why did they have to ruin such a good moment with a completely needless and terribly acted addition.

Spoiler

Ellie's dumbo face and yelling NONONONONO when Abby raises her gun.

Should have fucking cut to black when Abby finishes saying "And you wasted it" like the game.

Terrible, fucking terrible.

 

[DragoonKain]

This episode will be one non gamers and gamers finally agree on. Non gamers will hate it because of how they ended the episode. A lot of gamers will hate it because of the butchering of Ellie's character. "I didn't mean to kill them!" That's something that would never come out of Ellie's mouth. And I know it's an adaptation. But it's worse. Far worse.

 

[Hugare]

Ellie's Scars island segment was so fucking pointless lol . I laughed with the scars kid tho.

And as others have said already: Ellie didnt mean to kill Abby's friends? She wasnt very motivated to get her revenge, but all of a sudden, "fuck Tommy, I'm going for Abby". They dont know what to do with Ellie here.

Season 2 was a mess. Season 1 was so much better. They've changed way too much here, for worse, and for no reason at all. Didnt improve the storytelling not even a bit.

Season 2 storytelling was much harder to nail, and instead of sticking even more to the original script, they've decided to change it more.

 

[DragoonKain]

I stewed on it some more and I dislike it the more I think about it. They are so afraid to make Ellie a coldblooded killer that they had to have her mention that she didn't bash Nora to death. Now, one could argue that leaving her to suffer from the spores was worse, but the point of the game was Ellie is in a rage and she bludgeoned her to death because of that rage.

THEY ALREADY HAD THE FUCKING SCENE. They had Ellie screaming and beating Nora. And then tonight had to go "No, no no, wait guys. We promise, Ellie isn't a revenge obsessed killer! See? We even make sure she didn't kill Nora!" They could have just let it as-is, but they had to make sure to go out of their way to tell everyone she didn't actually do it. Have some fucking balls and follow the game's story.

They have the balls to kill off Joel in episode 2, but forbid they have Ellie actually engage in an act of vengeance after seeing the person she loves most in the world get killed in front of her.

I'm still going to watch, but they ruined it for me. No matter how it ends, Ellie is the main character and they ruined her. And it's also going to impact the ending, because if Ellie doesn't want to actually kill anyone in this, then why would Ellie deciding at the last second to not kill Abby be remotely surprising or emotional? The whole season has been Ellie out on a vacation, with a side of killing people and even then she doesn't want to actually do it, in actuality, Dina wants revenge more than Ellie does.

At least season 3 will give us Kaitlyn Dever who is a way better actress than Bella. They aren't afraid to make Abby a stone cold killer.

 

[Neff]

They definitely fumbled this episode a bit but it was still good. I didn't object to the hanging scene, in fact I kinda liked how Ellie learned her lesson after being a cunt to Jesse, but the way it conveniently happens in the middle of the boat journey felt off. Surprised Abby didn't shoot Tommy seemingly leaving him for dead as per the game, although they may be wary of a Waking Dead-style end of season massacre turning viewers off. The lead in to season 3 with Abby was smartly done and I'm actually excited to see how her story plays out in TV land.

 

[WoJ]

I actually liked the last two episodes and I've not enjoyed this season at all. Bella Ramsey needs a strong actor to play off and the girl playing Dina was not it. The guy playing Jessie really carried this episode.

All that said, I do agree with the points made about making Ellie soft. It's silliness.

I can't remember how Dina finds out about Salt Lake City. But I don't recall her withdrawing from Ellie.

 

[AJUMP23]

I don't know why you explore an enemy base with your flashlight on. That is yelling I'm over here.

Next season we watch Abby I guess. Has that been filmed or do we wait.

 

[DForce]

"No, no, no, no!"

What the fuck was that?
They made it even worse by adding the sound of the gunshot.

Kaitlyn Dever nailed her part in the final scene, but the way Bella had her hands up was awkward as fuck. What was the point of the Scar scene? Why add that dumb little kid?

Most of the episode was fine, but it failed at delivering some of the most important parts.

 

[Represent.]

Ahh, the internet.

I fucking loved it.

Loved that I didn't know exactly what was coming. Loved the changes. Loved that they were different.

Some of you just want the game recreated scene for scene, yet still complain about remasters.

 

[Madflavor]

I think the only thing I'm looking forward to in Season 3 is watching Dever bunch Ramsay's face until she looks like the victim of a car wreck.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I didn't like the episode but I feel like some people who claim they played the game maybe didn't.

Killing Mel and Owen was not planned, it was Owens fault in both the game and the show.

People saying this isn't dark... she literally shot a pregnant woman who died begging her to give her a c-section... That was dark as fuck. Also leaving Nora alive to turn after torturing answers from her is way darker than killing her...

Strange commentary.

My problems were with pacing and dialogue, which has been my issue with much of the season. It's rushing and its dragging (whiplash) and some of the dialogue is just really wooden and/or poorly delivered. I thought it was Bella's worst episode but they did her no favors.

 

[Digity.exe]

I don't know why you explore an enemy base with your flashlight on. That is yelling I'm over here.

Next season we watch Abby I guess. Has that been filmed or do we wait.

I'm sure we'll be waiting another year plus for a measly 7 episodes.

 

[zaga]

I wonder if the map that Owen and Mel were looking at was actually a map to get to the theatre and find Ellie. Makes more sense than Ellie accidentally dropping a map

 

[Edgelord79]

The actress from the movie Civil War in terms of how she looks and how likeable she is would've been a way better fit than Ramsey.

In all fairness I don't think Elle in the show is supposed to be likeable. I actually kind of appreciate Ramseys performance if she can illicit that type of feeling.

It's almost obvious that the casting was deliberately chosen to be opposite of the games. Ramsey would make an excellent Abby and Dever would have made an excellent Elle. Bizarre.

 

[analog_future]

 

[March Climber]

My problems were with pacing and dialogue, which has been my issue with much of the season. It's rushing and its dragging (whiplash)

Same. This episode felt like someone was pressing the 'Skip ahead 10 seconds' button on Netflix, multiple times. I knew they were going to have to rush to this part, but man that was glaringly bad to the point where Ellie felt like she was fast-traveling.

 

[zaga]

The actress from the movie Civil War in terms of how she looks and how likeable she is would've been a way better fit than Ramsey.

Cailee was also the star of Alien Romulus and she will star in the next Knives Out sequel. She is killing it right now.

 

[viveks86]

And that's a moderator!

 

[Cakeboxer]

The actress from the movie Civil War in terms of how she looks and how likeable she is would've been a way better fit than Ramsey.

Who would NOT been a better fit than Ramsey? Not even her acting is great. Random cosplayer on YouTube:

 

[adamsapple]

"No, no, no, no!"

What the fuck was that?
They made it even worse by adding the sound of the gunshot.

Kaitlyn Dever nailed her part in the final scene, but the way Bella had her hands up was awkward as fuck. What was the point of the Scar scene? Why add that dumb little kid?

Most of the episode was fine, but it failed at delivering some of the most important parts.

Spoiler

*jazz hands*

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

i reckon the internet discourse dropped off a cliff because I haven't seen any good virality around this show being sustained. it's viewership has to be dog shit too.

another rings of power, the acolyte, she-hulk. there is no way this show last 3 more seasons.

 

[ZehDon]

... I don't get why they are changing it that much. Why are they so afraid to portray Ellie and Joel as hardened in this show compared to the games?...

Because they want people to tune in week to week and eventually come back for Season 3.

The first game/season had a bright center to it that people connected with: Joel and Ellie and their relationship. There's a reason Season 1 is largely a copy/paste job: it worked. I haven't played the second game, but we all know the second game killed that center - literally. What I've gathered from the online discussions is that about half the people who played the game didn't like it much. Chief amongst their complaints was that they were left with a fairly unlikeable lead in TLOUP2's version of Ellie. In fact, I've seen far more people enjoy Abby's half than Ellie's half. That's a real problem for the TV show because, unlike the game - where players had already put down their money upfront - the TV show has to keep people coming back. You can't expect people to stick around for hours and hours of grimdark with a largely unlikeable lead. Clearly, they wanted to avoid the whiplash that gamers were smacked with. So, to actually hold on to their audience, I suspect Mazin chose to keep Ellie closer to Season 1 of the show, someone returning viewers might actually recognise.
Of course, it would appear they're still trying to follow the structure of TLOUP2, where Season 3 will be told from Abby's perspective. I don't think that's a good idea, frankly. Once people realise the characters from the first two seasons aren't coming back for a long time, they may drop the show. I imagine they're aware of that, so I'd expect them to truncate Abby's story to catch it up quickly and then tack the end of the game onto the end of Season 3. And I can't imagine anyone will be happy when its said and done.

 

[RickSanchez]

enough comments here about how bad the second season was, not much i can add to that

However one thing i want to say - is HBO just not a reliably good source of TV anymore ?

Look how some of their recent original shows, supposedly "prestige tv", turned out-
- Game of Thrones - monotonous from season 4, absolute shit in season 7 & 8
- Westworld - confused mess in season 2, straight up shite season 3 onwards
- The Last of Us - season 2 is a poorly written and poorly acted debacle

At this point, the only consistent thing they put out is John Oliver's show but that is because the execs seem to not have control over that one, John Oliver does

If i am wrong and have missed some other great shows that HBO has put out, i am happy to check them out

 

[zaga]

enough comments here about how bad the second season was, not much i can add to that

However one thing i want to say - is HBO just not a reliably good source of TV anymore ?

Look how some of their recent, supposedly "prestige tv" shows turned out-
- Game of Thrones - monotonous from season 4, absolute shit in season 7 & 8
- Westworld - confused mess in season 2, straight up shite season 3 onwards
- The Last of Us - season 2 is a poorly written and poorly acted debacle

At this point, the only consistent thing they put out is John Oliver's show but that is because the execs seem to not have control over that one, John Oliver does

If i am wrong and have missed some other great shows that HBO has put out, i am happy to check them out

Succession was HBO and pretty much stayed high quality the whole way

The Penguin was also HBO

Chernobyl was semi HBO

 

[deriks]

Succession was HBO and pretty much stayed high quality the whole way

Final episode was very bad thou

@thread
I dropped the show two or threee episodes ago. While the game has a lot of bad choices, it was most "bigger doesn't mean better", and the ending that felt not worthy. The show got the season finale with Ellie trying to play the guitar?

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Ahh, the internet.

I fucking loved it.

Loved that I didn't know exactly what was coming. Loved the changes. Loved that they were different.

Some of you just want the game recreated scene for scene, yet still complain about remasters.

Actually I just wanted a reasonably faithful adaptation, but one where I wasn't constantly gawking at the screen thinking what the fuck is that

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

In all fairness I don't think Elle in the show is supposed to be likeable. I actually kind of appreciate Ramseys performance if she can illicit that type of feeling.

It's almost obvious that the casting was deliberately chosen to be opposite of the games. Ramsey would make an excellent Abby and Dever would have made an excellent Elle. Bizarre.

Eh??? So she is deliberately acting bad and looks like a marshmallow in order to make the audience disconnect from Ellie? What kind of BS is this lol. You guys need to stop making excuses for bad writing and bad actors. The show turned to absolute shit, views are plummeting compared to Season 1. Game fans are turning their backs on the show and so are bored fans of S1 that never played it.

And no, Bella was never good even in Game of Thrones either. So I guess maybe you are right, it was all deliberate on her part to be disliked by the public, some meta acting right there that sank the show lol. Also her body posture the whole show is like some granny grumps:

 

[Giallo Corsa]

That's what a persecution complex and mental illness look like...
I know I'm not being original in the slightest here, but there's no two ways about it.

Man, seeing crazy stuff like this makes me appreciate even more the community we have in here (even with all the bickering and "wars").

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

That's it..w.e went full circle with this story. We wen from woke to transphobic.

I just love how TLOU2 makes everyone go crazy from all sides. It's amazing.

 

[DForce]

The episode wasn't bad, there were just a few moments that felt dumb or out of place.

- The way the final scene of Day 3 was shot was awkward.
- The scene with the Seraphites was pointless.

+ The scene with Mel and Owen was great.
+ The conversation between Jesse and Ellie was nice.
+ I like the way Jesse found out Dina was pregnant


I have high expectations for Kaitlyn Dever in Season 3.

 

[DForce]

Resetera believes they push anti-blackness in their video games.

Naughty Dog's Anti-Blackness (TLOU2 Spoilers)

Months ago, I had a single thought which I spoke of half-jokingly. And I really hoped it wouldn’t be true this time around. Oh my sweet summer child, it was all of them Now I’m positive I wasn’t the only Black person who had this thought in the back of their mind before they started the...

www.resetera.com

 

[captainnapalm]

I think the show's biggest problem like the game is that it follows the rules of intersectionality - so women, gays, trans, black people - whatever else - are at the top, and white men, straight men, asian men at the bottom. The lower you are on the intersectional woke hierarchy the worse this story treats you. Only problem with that is the characters people like the most are the ones lower on that hierarchy and the ones they like the least are at the top. We're supposed to like the intersectional hierarchy but most people just don't lol. All you see are a bunch of girls and gays dominating and killing a bunch of grown men in the apocalypse and it's ridiculous.

 

[RickSanchez]

Succession was HBO and pretty much stayed high quality the whole way

The Penguin was also HBO

Chernobyl was semi HBO

Chernobyl and Penguin are fantastic. Although i thought The Penguin was more a DC studios product and simply aired on HBO, not an HBO original.

A lot of people have recommended Succession, but i just have not got to it yet.

 

[Edgelord79]

Eh??? So she is deliberately acting bad and looks like a marshmallow in order to make the audience disconnect from Ellie? What kind of BS is this lol. You guys need to stop making excuses for bad writing and bad actors. The show turned to absolute shit, views are plummeting compared to Season 1. Game fans are turning their backs on the show and so are bored fans of S1 that never played it.

And no, Bella was never good even in Game of Thrones either. So I guess maybe you are right, it was all deliberate on her part to be disliked by the public, some meta acting right there that sank the show lol. Also her body posture the whole show is like some granny grumps:

Ok.

Now go outside a bit. You are taking this much too serious. It's just a show and mileage varies.