Neither film is perfect in my opinion and ofcourse TFA has its own problems but so has Rogue One. So generally speaking thats why i rate it higher. Luckily THAT scene is short and powerful and is great fanservice. I'd hate to have Vader chase groups of rebels and be the main antagonist of the film. Luckily that didnt happen.
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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS
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Neither film is perfect in my opinion and ofcourse TFA has its own problems but so has Rogue One. So generally speaking thats why i rate it higher. Luckily THAT scene is short and powerful and is great fanservice. I'd hate to have Vader chase groups of rebels and be the main antagonist of the film. Luckily that didnt happen.
Wasn't really feeling this movie.
-Lead characters had underwhelming character motivation
- supporting cast barely had any arc and just died after they fill certain function to the plot. ("welp, I guess he's dead now")
- More old Star Wars cameos and references that really needed (if any was needed at all)
- Bafflingly unjustified usage of John Williams-esque score that's inappropriate to the more grounded, gritty tone and feel that the movie supposed to have.
This felt more unremarkable and unfocused when this could have been a solid, smaller-scoped movie. The epicness feels superficial and I can't empathize with the R1's rebellion cause if I'm not conveyed what and how this mission really means personally to them.
But the big droid was fun at times, I guess.
"Rogue One was a movie that I watched" is how a friend described it to me and that's pretty much how i felt, I didn't like it or dislike it, it's just there. Unlike TFA I don't think I'll be seeing it numerous times in the theatre but will probably pick it up on bluray for the extras.
There's a lot of things I could pick apart about it but I'm so apathetic about it I couldn't be bothered, suffice to say the character with the most personality and the one whose death actually made me feel something was the robot.
speaking of extras - different extras though:
When seeing many of the aliens / creatures in this movie, i constantly felt "I know that one!", "where do i know that guy from?", "Was he in TFA?, or ANH?", "is this a cameo?"
only to realize that i know those guys from the trailers and "Look, we're doing practical effects!" reels.
Most notably Saw's main henchman
and those guys
WadiumArcadium
Member
Did we see Pao and Moroff's deaths on screen? I remember Bistan dying when his ship crashed but I can't remember seeing the others.
CGI Tarkin was horrible. I'd have thought that after what they did in Ant-Man and Civil War, Disney has the means to a good CG company but I guess Marvel ain't sharing secrets with LucasArts?
Also, the end scene with Leia was too gratuitous and cheesy. The film would have been better off ended in a sombre scene with Leia's ship too getting boarded and the last scene we see should have been her recording the message via R2D2 saying "Help me Obi-Wan-Kenobi, you're my only hope".
On the positive side, Catoo Esso/K2SO was cool but you know how the film is going to end when he was the first to go.
Also, the end scene with Leia was too gratuitous and cheesy. The film would have been better off ended in a sombre scene with Leia's ship too getting boarded and the last scene we see should have been her recording the message via R2D2 saying "Help me Obi-Wan-Kenobi, you're my only hope".
On the positive side, Catoo Esso/K2SO was cool but you know how the film is going to end when he was the first to go.
ILM did Rogue, Antman and Civil War. Marvel is just a comic shop.
Count Dookkake
Member
Just asking usually works; I much prefer to be understood than not. Fyi, you don't need scare quotes on fact, because I used the word properly. Putting them on interesting could have been funny, though.
This is no more a technicality than pointing out that yesterday was cold. And just so there is no confusion, the films were released less than 365 days apart, at least in my area, so there is nothing misleading about saying they were released "in the last year," unless you have some weird thing for noting distinction between calendar years, which I suspect you might.
If we pretend that your claim is true, that I am exploiting language to promote a falsehood, then you are suggesting that there is a meaningful difference between me using 1 year vs using 2 years. I'm not sure what kind of robot you have to be see a functional difference in comparing the franchise's output of 1 year to 40 years vs comparing the output of 2 years to 40 years. I mean really. That's fucking rainman.
The point is that despite this film franchise existing for 40 years, 1/4 of it has been released in the last year. If you don't find that of interest, that's fine.
TL;DR the movies came out within a year of each other and that is a fact. I'm not sure what about that bothers you. Oh, well.
i have no idea who the names are you just mentioned, but i assume that everyone who isn't part of the Rogue one crew (or our cantina friends from ANH) didn't make it off Jeddha
And i don't think ANYONE who ever joined the surface combat on Scarif made it out alive. Certainly not anyone who joined the ground squad.
I mean, the shields were down in the end (after pushing the star destroyers into the shield) right? so certain smaller ships that were originally locked within the athmosphere could have made it out, i guess.
as i said, it was a pointless debate anyways, i'd have appreciated the fact if it had ended before it went as ad hominem as it just did.
To state it more clearly: i feel we're both right, but you're more right on the fact that your post didn't need to be scrutinized in a nitpicky way, that's fine.
Original trilogy is still better. What has aged are the FX. Of course they are also 70-80s movies in tone and pacing.
You will never see Rogue/TFA top them in any top SF movies list ever.
WadiumArcadium
Member
ILM worked on all three of those. Though I expect it's significantly more difficult to create a CGI version of a dead actor who's being played by a stand-in, than ageing down an actor who's still alive.
These guys:
I'm sure they died, I just can't remember seeing it. Need to watch it again.
Then I don't get why the quality is soo bad here.
Maybe. The original idea of the film is that this should be a sucide mission. That is also why the sequence where the heroes run away from the citadel to deliver the plans was scrapped. Probably Disney was playing with the idea of a more happy ending. Lucky, they choose the right one.
It's not.
Also Tarkin is on screen way more than the princess.
Because its not
It is.
The thing is, they didn't really need him apart for cameo's sake. Vader and Leia (from a distance) would have been enough.
friskykillface
Banned
You may fire when ready
😎
Should have been just seen twice
😎
Should have been just seen twice
the way they showed the imperial officers watching the destruction of Jeddha...uhm ... city, clear tried to convey this kind of vibe, that was kinda cool
When they blew up the Scarif installation, it should have been more downplayed, maybe.
Re: the teaser and trailer footage with the team and the Death Star plans, maybe end up flying to the shield generator.
But then you probably wouldn't get the tie fighter scene. Or the plans and the dish weren't in the same building.
Krennic in the water could've been an after math kind of thing, showed up to the party late.
Dunno, would be interesting to hear how it was all laid out.
But then you probably wouldn't get the tie fighter scene. Or the plans and the dish weren't in the same building.
Krennic in the water could've been an after math kind of thing, showed up to the party late.
Dunno, would be interesting to hear how it was all laid out.
ThanksVision
Member
Damn I was really disappointed in this after absolutely loving TFA, which happens to be the only SW movie I've really loved. Rogue One is okay, not necessarily a bad film, but like someone else said earlier in the thread it really is some paint-by-the-numbers shit every step of the way. I need someone to point out the character development here for me cause I wasn't really catching any. This movie gave no space for its characters, no sense of swashbuckling camaraderie that the other films actually managed to nail down
Third act is of course a cgi and visual tour de force but I was mainly pleased about all the characters finally dying
Third act is of course a cgi and visual tour de force but I was mainly pleased about all the characters finally dying
maybe the dish wasn't accessible from a convenient elevator going all the way to the rooftop, but it's a manual override that has to be accessed by flying there.
That'll have allowed for her running back to their shuttle (with the plans), flying up to the dish, maybe the fighter shooting down the shuttle and then 'confronting' Jyn.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Digging Giacchino's score a lot more after listening to it on its own. 'Krennic's Aspirations' and 'Hope' are great.
Thanks, I learned something today.
Edit : As I see, The only real thing I got wrong is the Clone wars series. The rest is posterior to the acquisition by disney.
I'm curious to have people actually explain why they thought Tarkin and Leia looked bad. I was super impressed with how well they made them look. Tarkin I knew was CGI, but Leia was super believable. But that was just my first viewing where I didn't look for flaws. I might think differently next time. But I have no idea how anyone calls that CGI bad.
add me to camp "noticed, but didn't mind"
especially since i still believe the alternative (recasting them) would have been even weirder - especially people who are less sensitive to CGI recreations.
Some people don't even notice the CGI recretions,
Of those who do, some are really irritated and distracted by them, some aren't.
If they had recast Tarkin, everyone would (imho) suffer from the fact that Tarkin changes actor from (in universe) one day, to another.
I still believe it's the best way to be taken.
Sure, the CGI had been even better - not gonna dispute the fact that there's always room for improvement.
the most important thing that shouldn't be forgotten about the canon is, though:
None of it needs to be considered 'erased' entirely. It's just not been re-declared canon yet.
They introduced Thrawn in Rebels, for example. I feel like there's gonna be a lot that they're going to (selectively) be bringing back from legends. Like, i wouldn't mind Kyle Katarn to be brought back. Or let's see how they fill up the last 30 years of Luke's life, for example.
Mass Appeal
Member
Friends and I are pretty huge Star wars fans and we loved Rogue One. Definetly better then TFA which is no way a knock because TFA was also very good. Being huge fans of the orginal trilogy, Rogue One felt more like a Star Wars movie to us. My rankings now:
ESB > ANH > Rogue One > ROTJ > TFA >>>>>>>>>>>>prequels.
ESB > ANH > Rogue One > ROTJ > TFA >>>>>>>>>>>>prequels.
My wife is familiar with but has not great memory of the OT, so I asked her if she could tell if any of the human characters were CG. She couldn't. After I told her about Tarkin and Leia, she commented that something seemed "weird" about Leia at the end but couldn't put her finger on it. But Tarkin passed.
We're all scrutinizing the hell out of Tarkin from the moment he appears on screen, which is one of the dangers of going the CG route as they did. I could tell he was CG, but I was staring at his every nuance. If it was not replicating a famous actor I doubt most people would notice.
yeah, KNOWING that a person isn't alive anymore, or even knowing that a person isn't of a certain age anymore (see Tony Stark, Hank Pym) immediately makes us look much more closesly and pay attention to every single detail. Or just not being all that familiar with the original actor's looks. Ignorance truly is a bliss when it comes to CGI recreations of characters.
Escape Goat
Member
I didn't know Tarkin was in this or that he was CGI but you could tell. It was an amazing effort but the human brain has millions of years of evolution to detect abnormalities in other humans meant for us to detect illness. It's hard to completely fool us.
The Alliance fleet seemed to have too much effect on Star Destroyers. The Alliance could win if they just a Y Wing into every shield generator.
The Alliance fleet seemed to have too much effect on Star Destroyers. The Alliance could win if they just a Y Wing into every shield generator.
Agreed. I think some people are investing too much time and effort to evaluate special effects rather than just enjoy the film.
It's a shame Star Wars has a rigid and uncompromising vision of the films and the makers are so resistant to modifying and editing them down the road as new technology is developed...
I've been watching a few reviews and scanning this thread and there something that keeps cropping up that I guess is a modern thing. People seem to want more reasons and motivation for characters. Why are they there, why are they friends, what's their arc? I don't get it. Accept the characters for what they are. The characters are their actions. Films never used to be reviewed like this, moaning on about lack of back story. You don't need it.
Particularly in this film, where the focus is getting the plans of the Death Star. The characters are interesting because of the part they play in that mission. This isn't a character study, it's a film built around a mission. The situation is the thing.
Also, because of this, I've no problem with the way the film jumps around at the start. It expands the universe, adds to the pulling together of different elements for the second and third act. It really gains momentum in the third act and I think it has a lot to do with how the first act sets everything up. Start all over the place but ends super focused. Brilliant.
Forest Whitaker was a bit rubbish though.
Particularly in this film, where the focus is getting the plans of the Death Star. The characters are interesting because of the part they play in that mission. This isn't a character study, it's a film built around a mission. The situation is the thing.
Also, because of this, I've no problem with the way the film jumps around at the start. It expands the universe, adds to the pulling together of different elements for the second and third act. It really gains momentum in the third act and I think it has a lot to do with how the first act sets everything up. Start all over the place but ends super focused. Brilliant.
Forest Whitaker was a bit rubbish though.
Yup. It's kind of sad that the only death I felt something was K2. Poor droid. The blind guy as well I guess. But that's the thing I just saw the movie last night and I already forgot some of the characters names! It was a solid movie. Not great not terrible I would watch it one more time in the movie theaters just to see it with some more of my friends.
i agree with the fact that the star destroyers didn't really seem all that imposing.
In RotJ they don't use their Star Destroyers to attack the Rebel Fleet by order of the Emperor (and, just for completeness, during the Hoth attack they were disabled by a surface based ion cannon) - but this time around, i see no reason to go easy on the Rebels. Their turbolasers should have shredded those larger ships in no time.
Escape Goat
Member
I'm glad you don't make movies.
He is right.
Characters here are just a means to a end, which in fact we all know beforehand. What do you ask after character development ? A sequel ?
Count Dookkake
Member
Yes.
I'll go further and say fuck character arcs and growth more-or-less entirely. If it happens cool, if not is also cool.
I think this may be more of a thing for tv obsessives, though.
Yeah, you can definitely tell. For me at least, I had to look really hard, though. And I had confirmation bias working for me, since I knew what I was looking at/for. Every moment that looked off, I was like, aha! that's CG.
That said, while being noticeable, I don't think it was distracting. If anything I was marveling at how close they came to nailing it. Not perfect, but not this ruinous CG blob if seems some people saw.
Yeah, I was about to add to that not everyone needs a freaking arc. Because most people don't have one over the course of a few days. They can just be a character.
ClosingADoor
Member
Very much agreed. And everyone in this movie had enough motivation for me. Two people had their families killed and wanted revenge on the Empire, and stopping it from causing more suffering. Two others worked at a Jedi temple and probably had a lot of their friends killed. One is a robot, so he is programmed to help. One is a former Empire employee who wants redemption.
I don't really get what more motivation or reasons people need to have to fight against and evil empire that wants to oppress the galaxy.
There was just something off about Tarkin's eyes and some of the movements of his face looking unnatural. Of course, knowing that Peter Cushing is dead I immediately knew it wasn't real, so there was no way I wouldn't be distracted. If someone wasn't aware of who he was I guess they might not have noticed. But the whole reason for doing it was for people who remembered the character, so all of those people will automatically start scrutinizing what they are seeing.
I think that kind of drives home the chaos of war aspect of the film. These aren't a bunch of buddies that are expected to carry an entire film series. They are disposable characters that serve a single function-- steal the Death Star plans. Honestly, does Zero Dark Thirty need to give detailed backgrounds and motivations of every team member that raided Osama's compound? Sometimes people are just at the right place at the right time and are active participants in history. These characters simply got swept up in some major events and never really knew each other.
You have a point. TV culture, where season 2 is the obligatory character development moment and so on ... This is not the point of the movie.
You could say, ANH had very one dimensional characters as well.
I still do not understand why the first clone wars series (the 2 seasons one of 2004) is not included there. It was awesome and probably lost forever.
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