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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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There was only one scene in the entire movie that hit its emotional note for me, and that was the hologram scene.

Everything else was flat, deaths or whatnot.
 
Teggy said:
There was just something off about Tarkin's eyes and some of the movements of his face looking unnatural. Of course, knowing that Peter Cushing is dead I immediately knew it wasn't real, so there was no way I wouldn't be distracted. If someone wasn't aware of who he was I guess they might not have noticed. But the whole reason for doing it was for people who remembered the character, so all of those people will automatically start scrutinizing what they are seeing.
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Yeah. I've been thinking about Tarkin a lot since seeing it, and this is where I'm landing. It was a good effort but ultimately I think the film would have been better served if Krennic was directly under Vader's thumb, without Tarkin in between.

Count Dookkake said:
Shit, most people don't even have one over the course of an entire life.
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That was my original edit, but I added the few days bit as I'm an optimist. But you're right.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Yes.

I'll go further and say fuck character arcs and growth more-or-less entirely. If it happens cool, if not is also cool.

I think this may be more of a thing for tv obsessives, though.
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Yeah, i don't think it's right to go into every movie with the same expectations with regards to character arcs, growth, transistion and conflict - while completely ignoring the context, timespan, quantity of characters. Also, not every character can or will experience some kind of pivotal point within their respective arc at the same time. K2SO and the imperial pilot clearly pivoted way before we even meet them.

Sure, a character shouldn't be a bland stereotype of a character either, that goes without saying.

GhaleonEB said:
Yeah. I've been thinking about Tarkin a lot since seeing it, and this is where I'm landing. It was a good effort but ultimately I think the film would have been better served if Krennic was directly under Vader's thumb, without Tarkin in between.
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meh, i do believe it would have felt off if - all other things left equal - Tarkin had never shown up in this movie. In ANH, the Death Star is very clearly near and dear to his heart, and he's its de-facto commander. I do feel like that - even worse than seeing CG Tarkin - it would be to be constantly left wondering "where's Tarkin during all of this?"

I'd actually call Vader's inclusion in the movie somewhat more needless (while still amazing, ofc) than Tarkins, seeing as Vader doesn't think highly of the Death Star project to begin with and has no real personal connection to either the project or the people involved.
 
effzee said:
I thought this was the best star wars movie. Ever.

I loved loved loved it and can't wait to see it again.
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I mean, I feel the same when Rogue One is compared to EP 1-3 and EP 7, but having pretty much spent my childhood watching EPs 4-6 it's impossible to even try to compare this to those.

But a very enjoyable experience nevertheless and I'm really looking forward to other spin-offs.
 
I thought the CG for Tarkin was as good as you could hope for, but that wasn't the point. He should have been just for one quick scene, like a cameo. Having him actually be a featured character really took away from any intimidation we may have felt from Krennik. His character turned out to feel weak as fuck for a villain, and that is because the whole movie he is being bitch slapped by Vader and Tarkin. Mendehlson was under utilized, and if they had really set out to make him a more intimidating force, with only brief cameos from Vader and Tarkin, the film would have been better for it.

Overall, I really enjoyed the movie, especially the third act, but the first two acts were pretty dull for me. The highlights were the third act, Vader's final scene, and Felicity Jones as the lead. I thought she was fantastic.
 
Escape Goat said:
I didn't know Tarkin was in this or that he was CGI but you could tell. It was an amazing effort but the human brain has millions of years of evolution to detect abnormalities in other humans meant for us to detect illness. It's hard to completely fool us.
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Guess I'm a moron. I didn't know.
 
Fliesen said:
meh, i do believe it would have felt off if - all other things left equal - Tarkin had never shown up in this movie. In ANH, the Death Star is very clearly near and dear to his heart, and he's its de-facto commander. I do feel like that - even worse than seeing CG Tarkin - it would be to be constantly left wondering "where's Tarkin during all of this?"

I'd actually call Vader's inclusion in the movie somewhat more needless (while still amazing, ofc) than Tarkins, seeing as Vader doesn't think highly of the Death Star project to begin with and has no real personal connection to either the project or the people involved.
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I liked how focused Vader's role was. Fear is what makes the Empire operate, and that fear comes down from the Emperor to Vader right through the ranks. Everyone is using the next level to terrify the one below them. And Vader is shown as the tip of the spear he was used as in the OT. So it makes sense that Vader and Tarkin both had to be there. (I'm clearly of two minds about this. Ultimately I liked Tarkin's role in the story.)
 
Ecotic said:
I kept myself spoiler free going in and was surprised to see the prequel actors for Bail Organa and Mon Mothma return. And also to show Vader's injuries to mirror what happened in Episode III.

I thought Disney's directive going forward was that the prequels were to not be contradicted, but also not acknowledged.
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New actress for mothma.
 
Hesemonni said:
I mean, I feel the same when Rogue One is compared to EP 1-3 and EP 7, but having pretty much spent my childhood watching EPs 4-6 it's impossible to even try to compare this to those.

But a very enjoyable experience nevertheless and I'm really looking forward to other spin-offs.
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I guess it all depends on how you've seen them?

I never grew up on the originals and only binged on them a week before the Phantom Menace was released.


I loved the OT, was disappointed by the prequels, and enjoyed TFA but felt it was a complete rehash down to the terrible plot of another new empire 10-20 years after the events of the OT and another new death Star.

But this was perfect for me. Of course it's only as good cause of the larger story at play but I felt this hit all the notes and even the cameos were done well.

The fight acne with the blind man was the best in the series. Vader's fight sequence was the best I've seen of him.
 
Ecotic said:
I thought Disney's directive going forward was that the prequels were to not be contradicted, but also not acknowledged.
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The only place where I always hear that is GAF. Who said that? That wouldn't make sense at all. In the first EU comics, the Leia mini-series, she goes to Naboo and feels the "presence" of Maul. If you're talking only movies, that wouldn't make sense either. The Prequel haters think they are a larger group than they really are. There is a whole generation who grew up with the Prequels and got into SW because of them. Ignoring them would also mean ignoring a whole lot of money.
 
I dug this movie. I don't really care about anyone but K2 and Jyn. But you didnt need to. This was about establishing what living under the empire was like and how the Rebels started winning. All the battle scenes were incredible and Vader at the end was tremendous. I liked Tarkin. I feel like he looked better ever time he was on screen and I actually appreciate getting some background for his character.

I might be the only person who feels this way, but Rogue One really makes me want Disney to remake episode 4. Its the movie of the OT that most shows its age, that film with modern cg and action sequences would be amazing. A proper Vader Obiwan duel...
 
Skyball Paint said:
If there's one thing that bothered me, I feel like Jyn is overshadowed by the rest of the cast in her own damn story, especially in the action scenes, she doesn't really have a standout action moment like the rest of the cast, and in fact has surprisingly little action.
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I feel the same way. I was just too intrigued with Diego Luna and Donnie Yen's character to bother with her. It almost seems her only connection in being there was because of her dad. Well, it's not that it seems because that EAS the only reason really. I only felt her come to life at the alliance counsel meeting.
 
Sulik2 said:
I dug this movie. I don't really care about anyone but K2 and Jyn. But you didnt need to. This was about establishing what living under the empire was like and how the Rebels started winning. All the battle scenes were incredible and Vader at the end was tremendous. I liked Tarkin. I feel like he looked better ever time he was on screen and I actually appreciate getting some background for his character.

I might be the only person who feels this way, but Rogue One really makes me want Disney to remake episode 4. Its the movie of the OT that most shows its age, that film with modern cg and action sequences would be amazing. A proper Vader Obiwan duel...
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Yes this!
 
Replicant said:
Then I don't get why the quality is soo bad here.
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The only thing I can think of is projector quality making a difference.

I didn't "know" Cushing was dead and didn't think twice until I read this thread. He looked pretty natural to me besides what i thought was overdone makeup under his eyes.
 
Escape Goat said:
I'm glad you don't make movies. :P
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He's right though. Characters are their actions. People these days need too much spelled out for them. Just watch the thing, pay attention, and use your brain.

Fliesen said:
add me to camp "noticed, but didn't mind"

especially since i still believe the alternative (recasting them) would have been even weirder - especially people who are less sensitive to CGI recreations.

Some people don't even notice the CGI recretions,
Of those who do, some are really irritated and distracted by them, some aren't.

If they had recast Tarkin, everyone would (imho) suffer from the fact that Tarkin changes actor from (in universe) one day, to another.
I still believe it's the best way to be taken.

Sure, the CGI had been even better - not gonna dispute the fact that there's always room for improvement.
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Recasting is not the only alternative. We did not need to see Leia's face. The costume/hood/hair/voice was enough. As if the face was some sort of big reveal or surprise. Please.

Same for Tarkin, he could have had a small cameo, in the background, in shadows, something without so much focus. Or he didn't need to be there. Krennic could have been bossed around by Vader instead. He did get bossed by Vader. Just have that instead of so much Tarkin. Vader can say, at some point, "The Death Star is Tarkin's now, you've shown you can't handle it." Then we avoid unsettling and somewhat tasteless CGI of a dead guy.
 
I completely bought into Tarkin. I think most casual viewers would honestly have no idea. Leia is the one who didn't really pass my test. She just seemed really odd, but hey it was like 5-10 seconds of screen time. Overall I'd say they did a pretty great job.
 
ClosingADoor said:
Very much agreed. And everyone in this movie had enough motivation for me. Two people had their families killed and wanted revenge on the Empire, and stopping it from causing more suffering. Two others worked at a Jedi temple and probably had a lot of their friends killed. One is a robot, so he is programmed to help. One is a former Empire employee who wants redemption.

I don't really get what more motivation or reasons people need to have to fight against and evil empire that wants to oppress the galaxy.
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This is also the only Star Wars movie that nails the feeling of war. And you don't get a ton of character growth in war movies given the constant death. I thought everyone did a great job acting shell shocked the whole time post-Jedha explosion. It's out of place to start droning about your childhood in those moments.
 
Number_6 said:
He's right though. Characters are their actions. People these days need too much spelled out for them. Just watch the thing, pay attention, and use your brain.
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Thats not what we're talking about though. Rogue One characters were so terrible I don't remember any of their names besides Jynn. I didn't care they died. The outcome of this movie was always set. The Rebels get the plans to the Death Star. If this was just to show the actions how the plans were delivered to the Rebels then it was a complete waste. I knew the ending. I wasnt supposed to care about the characters. So what was the point?
 
Loved it, more so than Force Awakens. It was great to see more of the Empire and the rebel struggle, even a more extreme version. The vastness of the film was excellent, you felt it was a huge universe unlike Force Awakens. Creature design, sets, worlds, they really outdone themselves. Battles, excellent. Characters were great, dialogue wasn't a worry in the end, they never went too far with jokes. Mads was fantastic, Donnie was great, maybe overdoing the force talk though but I get that's their thing on the planet. Rest of the cast were good, such a good variety and not sticking out like a sore thumb, job well done.

What I didn't like, Tarkin was fake obviously and didn't quite work but his part was fine. Vader on first appearance in the tank, fantastic, then he just doesn't look right and his presence and movements aren't intimidating at all whereas the old trilogy Vader was something else just strolling about. Just looks off. The plot was fine for the most part except going after Mads, that made no sense from the Rebel perspective, capture was the only logical option.

Vader at the end, redeemed, so awesome. The fear.
 
Tarkin may have looked a bit off (though two people I saw it with had no idea), but his performance and lines were spot on. Judging him as a character in the film, I feel like he was delivered very well, so I think it was worth having him there but a bit odd looking rather than not including him at all.

I wouldn't have minded if he was recast, but finding an actor that resembled Cushing's very distinctive appearance and voice would have been a challenge. They were lucky with Mon Mothma to find an actor that's startlingly similar, but her face was less unusual to begin with.

Edit: Why has remembering a character's name become a benchmark for whether or not they're memorable?

I can't remember the name of a single character in No Country For Old Men and I love the shit out of that movie.
 
Escape Goat said:
Thats not what we're talking about though. Rogue One characters were so terrible I don't remember any of their names besides Jynn. I didn't care they died. The outcome of this movie was always set. The Rebels get the plans to the Death Star. If this was just to show the actions how the plans were delivered to the Rebels then it was a complete waste. I knew the ending. I wasnt supposed to care about the characters. So what was the point?
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The point was to see the sacrifices they made to get those plans and get them in the hands of the rebel alliance. It's a war film and it isn't Band of Brothers. Look at it from the perspective that the rebel alliance itself is the main character and really the only character that matters. All of these people that died were cogs in the wheel who made the ultimate sacrifice and who weren't afraid to do whatever it took to meet the objective even if that meant working in the grey areas or straight up murdering people like Cassian did at the beginning of the movie.
 
-Title reveal was ass
-K2 telling one too many jokes early on.
-Cantina guys for no damn reason
-Darth Schwarzenegger's one liner was no good.
-Jyn's change of heart is completely believable, the change to a politician complete with quotes like Rebellions are built on hope! was a stretch.
-Krennic, who is she? Rebel scum. Shoot her alre- that's a damn shame.
-Princess Leia was just chilling on her ship the whole time the battle was going on huh?


With all that said, this was great. I almost shed a thug tear. After the poetry jam that was TFA I was had no expectations for this...Gareth blessed us.
4gk3CmS.png
 
Number_6 said:
Recasting is not the only alternative. We did not need to see Leia's face. The costume/hood/hair/voice was enough. As if the face was some sort of big reveal or surprise. Please.

Same for Tarkin, he could have had a small cameo, in the background, in shadows, something without so much focus. Or he didn't need to be there. Krennic could have been bossed around by Vader instead. He did get bossed by Vader. Just have that instead of so much Tarkin. Vader can say, at some point, "The Death Star is Tarkin's now, you've shown you can't handle it." Then we avoid unsettling and somewhat tasteless CGI of a dead guy.
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honestly, i'd consider that the worst alternative. weirdly hiding an actor's face, making them talk from the background, in the shadows.

Hiding a face in a movie should be something meaningful, it should be driven by the story, it creates mystery around a character. It shouldn't happen just to camouflage that an actor has died.

boguslugosi.png
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Before you compromise your directoral / cinematographic vision like that, just recast them and own it.

I could maybe see them doing that for Leia, i give you that. But not for a role as important as Tarkin's.
 
Teggy said:
There was just something off about Tarkin's eyes and some of the movements of his face looking unnatural. Of course, knowing that Peter Cushing is dead I immediately knew it wasn't real, so there was no way I wouldn't be distracted. If someone wasn't aware of who he was I guess they might not have noticed. But the whole reason for doing it was for people who remembered the character, so all of those people will automatically start scrutinizing what they are seeing.
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As far as CG has obviously come, it still looks like a cartoon compared to a real human being.

It was impressive, but I could tell in a second he was a cartoon character. As humans, I suppose we're pretty good at that.
 
wazoo said:
I still do not understand why the first clone wars series (the 2 seasons one of 2004) is not included there. It was awesome and probably lost forever.
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It conflicts with TCW and plans they had for TCW that never got to the point of fruition but which later ended up in the canon anyway, like what Anakin is doing immediately pre-RotS. In Genndywars he just finished the mission to Nelvaan, but in canon he was preparing for the Siege of Mandalore.
 
Watched it last night. I liked it better than TFA, and has the best production design in this series since Empire. The use of orange alone gives it the most credible military hardware, and the robot guy actually looks and moves like he is made out of metal.
 
When I first saw the previews for this movie, I thought the dude in white WAS Tarkin but recast. I didn't realize they wanted to stay so in line with Episode IV that they would CGI the old characters in. It was jarring for me. Fake Leia at the end literally saying the name of Episode IV title with a huge grin on her face. Did not like that part. Maybe it was the smile. That was not in her character when she was in business mode.
 
Fliesen said:
honestly, i'd consider that the worst alternative. weirdly hiding an actor's face, making them talk from the background, in the shadows.
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They could have cut the scene when seeing Leia from behind. Anybody not understanding what comes next entered the cinema room by error.
 
bill0527 said:
The point was to see the sacrifices they made to get those plans and get them in the hands of the rebel alliance. It's a war film and it isn't Band of Brothers. Look at it from the perspective that the rebel alliance itself is the main character and really the only character that matters. All of these people that died were cogs in the wheel who made the ultimate sacrifice and who weren't afraid to do whatever it took to meet the objective even if that meant working in the grey areas or straight up murdering people like Cassian did at the beginning of the movie.
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You can't have it both ways. For myself, I feel characters are important or they're not. It is the sacrifices individuals make that's important. The Rebel Alliance doesn't exist as a person or a thing. It's a collection of individuals with their own stories. And it is from their personal histories that make their fight worth caring about.
 
Saw it, loved it. My one complaint is when the first city got nuked and we see (not Rey)'s foster dad look out his doorway, he should have had his arm around the tentacle monster.
 
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