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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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2) I still don't understand why anyone would willingly work for the Empire. Or alternatively, why aren't more people defecting. The more I learn about the world through these new movies, the less it makes sense because at some point making an evil super weapon and killing civilians has to send up some warning signs to the most average person.
The book Lost Stars is entirely about this. In short, indoctrination of youth, offering work/education opportunities to poor, and paint dissenters as a terrorist organization (and downplay their size). Hell, even Luke wants to go to the Imperial Academy because he wants to be a pilot.

The Empire doesn't appear tyrannical to the already-well-off systems. And offering industrialization to poorer worlds probably seems like a sweet deal until they start enslaving you and turn your planet into a smoggy shithole.

And there are tons of people defecting. Not by any means a majority, as their abandonment would be considered an act of treason obviously. But Luke's friend Biggs, Wedge, and a shit ton of other people are either Imperial deserters, or people who atleast underwent Imperial training.

And 90% of the people on-board the Death Star didn't even know it's purpose until Alderaan was destroyed. And by then, the planet is either painted as traitorous, or you're way too afraid to be the one guy in the back raising your hand saying "Hey that doesn't seem okay." Military organizations don't give a fuck about individual opinion.
 
I mean they've jettisoned all the lore I guess, but "force sensitivity" used to be a thing in the old Star Wars universe anyway.
Yes, but we only saw Jedi and Sith and Knight of Ren tapping so much into the force to pull of Stunts like this.

What he did is something completly new and I am super excited to explore that more.
 
Yes, but we only saw Jedi and Sith and Knight of Ren tapping so much into the force to pull of Stunts like this.

What he did is something completly new and I am super excited to explore that more.
It's been over a decade since I read the old de-canonized books, but I seem to remember people who had "intuition" but were not outright Jedi or Sith. But none of that matters anymore I suppose.

The book Lost Stars is entirely about this. In short, indoctrination of youth, offering work/education opportunities to poor, and paint dissenters as a terrorist organization (and downplay their size). Hell, even Luke wants to go to the Imperial Academy because he wants to be a pilot.

The Empire doesn't appear tyrannical to the already-well-off systems. And offering industrialization to poorer worlds probably seems like a sweet deal until they start enslaving you and turn your planet into a smoggy shithole.

And there are tons of people defecting. Not by any means a majority, as their abandonment would be considered an act of treason obviously. But Luke's friend Biggs, Wedge, and a shit ton of other people are either Imperial deserters, or people who atleast underwent Imperial training.
I mean... once you see that there are NO aliens whatsoever in this new thing you joined, wouldn't you question the motives of the Empire?

I don't even know if it's canon anymore, but I suppose there's also Han who quit the Empire to save Chewie, so there are definitely more specific examples of defections. Even still, the Empire as it's been fleshed out and depicted by both the OT and the two new films is this predominantly white, male, all-Human organization.

(Yes, I know, they're Storm Troopers because they are supposed to be the scifi equivalent of Nazis, but why would so many humans - perhaps numbering in the trillions - be fine with this?)
 
Yes, but we only saw Jedi and Sith and Knight of Ren tapping so much into the force to pull of Stunts like this.

What he did is something completly new and I am super excited to explore that more.

I'm strongly on the side of that he was an untrained Force user or at least attuned to the Force in a way that surpasses normal Star Wars humans. You're not busting Daredevil moves and hitting people with precision both at melee and ranged distances without superpowers and Stormtroopers are bad shots sure but not THAT bad.

Also re: the Empire and humans I'm actually quite a bit disappointed that the Rebellion/general population/movies still appear to be majority human when in other media everyone is an alien.
 
Now when I think again about it, it makes sense to choose more then the ordinary person force sensetive beeings to guard the Kyber-Crystal-Temple.
 
I mean... once you see that there are NO aliens whatsoever in this new thing you joined, wouldn't you question the motives of the Empire?

I don't even know if it's canon anymore, but I suppose there's also Han who quit the Empire to save Chewie, so there are definitely more specific examples of defections. Even still, the Empire as it's been fleshed out and depicted by both the OT and the two new films is this predominantly white, male, all-Human organization.

(Yes, I know, they're Storm Troopers because they are supposed to be the scifi equivalent of Nazis, but why would so many humans - perhaps numbering in the trillions - be fine with this?)

I don't know that it's hard to believe that sizable chunk of a privileged class aren't typically concerned with the well-being or inclusion of those seen as lesser...

*points to November election*
 
Now when I think again about it, it makes sense to choose more then the ordinary person force sensetive beeings to guard the Kyber-Crystal-Temple.

The temple does not seem guarded to me. More a lost and abandoned place where hippies and groupies of jedi stories gathered.
 
I don't know that it's hard to believe that sizable chunk of a privileged class aren't typically concerned with the well-being or inclusion of those seen as lesser...

*points to November election*
I mean, how old is Luke/Leia in ANH? Like 18? So in 18 years, the Star Wars version of Kristallnacht happened and somehow all the aliens that were in the military, government, and other positions of power were marginalized and ostracized and replaced with a clone army and presumably millions of non-clone Humans.

Even with Brexit and Trump, it was still only half the population that voted for facism and isolationism.

(Although I guess Thrawn is canon because of the new cartoon, but that's like one alien in an army of millions.)
 
Criticizing time-traveling stories for having inconsistencies is like getting mad at water for being wet.

It's one thing to have some inconsistencies. Looper literally has every inconsistency that's possible to have in a time travel film, to the point that the entire premise and ending of the film doesn't work within the film's own internal logic. It's easily the worst written time travel movie I've seen.
 
Enjoyed it a lot because there was less political nonsens. It were people fighting for what they believed in or die trying to. Telling the story from the rebels and extremists perspective was fantastic.
 
I thought it was very good. It met my expectations of being an enjoyable Star Wars side story and nothing more.

+Visually the film looked spectacular. The CGI was great and the art direction was fantastic. I love the gritty, blocky, analog futurism of Star Wars and how it mixes in with more fantastical elements like bustling cities filled with strange aliens and ancient structures. A lot of the redesigns and upgrades in TFA looked very good, but it was fun to see the classic ships and gear look even more detailed and realistic. Personally I found the Tarkin CGI to be very good. Yeah the lips were noticeable, but honestly you had to be looking for it. I was surprised he had so many scenes though. I thought he would be one and done. Leia on the other hand was a bit jarring. Skimming through the thread, people seem to have the opposite opinion though.
+The film had a lot of treats for super nerds of Star Wars. You got to see more about the inner workings of both the Empire and the Rebels. I felt like it did a good job portraying the galaxy under the boot of the Empire. How Stormtroopers were prevalent everywhere and while some people rebelled, many just tried to keep their head down and go on with their lives. The Empire was really portrayed as an almost impossible obstacle that the Rebels had no chance of defeating.
+The action scenes were a bit too long, but still really exciting. There was a good diversity. You got space battles, you got kung fu fights, you got shoot outs, you got Vader force throwing people. There was violence for everyone. The space battles really stood out though. I loved seeing the X-Wing zoom in and out, the horde of TIE Fighters being released, the Hammerhead pushing the Star Destroyer (not sure how it didn't just burst though but who cares) etc.
+I thought the Vader scene at the end was the perfect way to portray him. I wish the lateral scene with the disc went on a bit longer but I suppose people would start thinking, "Why didn't Vader just force take the disc?"

+/-The characters were a mixed bag. There really should have been more scenes where they just sit around talking about themselves and their motivations. I see a lot of people rail on Jyn but I thought her motivations and character arc was clear. She hates the Empire for taking her family away from her, but she has also become disillusioned about the Rebels due to her time with Forest Whitaker's character (Sol Gurrera? What were they saying). She fights the Empire in her own way throughout the years, but doesn't seem to believe there is any real chance to defeat them until she receives her father's message, which causes her to become more proactive. Donnie Yen was also probably one of the better characters and is best representative of the idea that even though odds are seemingly insurmountable, people are willing to fight for what they believe is right. The other protagonists though... I didn't really feel a connection with them. We really needed more information about Cassian's past. He seemed to be all over the place. He straight up kills his partner at the beginning for whatever reason, and almost snipes Hannibal, but then follows Jyn to the end. I didn't really get his whole motivation. He hints that he the empire killed his family or something, but I would like to know more. I don't know why Iron Man was so attached to Ip Man except for maybe that they were friends? And I have no idea why the pilot even defected.

-Darth Vader should never make a pun EVER.
-I already said it, but I felt the action scenes were a bit too long. You could have easily trimmed down the huge ending. I mean the actual plot of that whole scene is quite straightforward. They sneak into the base, try to transfer the data, the Rebels distract them, the shield serves as an obstacle, they deactivate the shield, send the info, mission accomplished.
-It was almost too dark at times. So many people got straight up shot, executed, exploded, lasered, squided etc. Did we really need to see a Stormtrooper get shot in the head as he was on the ground from point blank range? I didn't find K2 to be all that funny either. I know the more somber tone was to highlight how bad people had it under the Empire, but the tone shift from TFA to this movie is probably jarring for many, especially kids.

OH, and why did the Rebels decide to jump in on Scarif? They went from, "We can't help you" to "GO GO GO" so quickly. Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I completely missed their motivations for flip flopping and helping Jyn.

Anyways I had fun watching it. Like TFA it is a great film to watch in the IMAX due to its visual vibrancy. And DAMN WHEN ARE THEY GONNA MAKE A NEW ROGUE LEADER GAME?
 
Remember when he did that a couple of times in the OT?

Nah man

If Vader was as on the nose in the OT as he was with that joke, "Apology accepted Captain Needa" would have been "Your apology left me floored, Captain Needa" cause you know, Needa's lying dead on the floor, get it?

it was a terrible pun.
 
Non-Humans do work for the Empire, just not within the top structure. Bounty Hunters, informants, groups aligned etc. That's loose of course. You could also argue it's an extension of the clone army foundations so makes sense they wouldn't veer away from that and maybe indoctrination doesn't work as well on non humans and it's all about comforming to one look, one set of ideals. It's easy for film makers to point, bad guys.
 
I really enjoyed it. It was awesome. The best Star Wars since Empire. I can't wait to see it again.
 
Nah man

If Vader was as on the nose in the OT as he was with that joke, "Apology accepted Captain Needa" would have been "Your apology left me floored, Captain Needa" cause you know, Needa's lying dead on the floor, get it?

it was a terrible pun.

No that doesn't work because it's Needa on the floor, not Vadar.
 
Modern Vader > New Hope Vader

Kngcm9k.jpg
 
I mean, how old is Luke/Leia in ANH? Like 18? So in 18 years, the Star Wars version of Kristallnacht happened and somehow all the aliens that were in the military, government, and other positions of power were marginalized and ostracized and replaced with a clone army and presumably millions of non-clone Humans.

Even with Brexit and Trump, it was still only half the population that voted for facism and isolationism.

(Although I guess Thrawn is canon because of the new cartoon, but that's like one alien in an army of millions.)

The only alien military forces (as far as I know) during the Clone Wars were pretty much defending their own home worlds. The Clone army was already the official Republican military force stationed throughout the galaxy. And there were still non-clone human officers within those ranks (Tarkin in Episode 3). I don't know that aliens were fully removed from government positions considering the Senate isn't dismantled until ANH.
 
Wrote this on Twitter already but yeah: what an amazing movie.

I have no clue when the last time was that my jaw dropped to the floor at the cinema, but Rogue One managed to do that to me twice; I will never forget the Vader boarding scene in my entire life, those images are now burnt into my brain just like other famous Star Wars shots from the OG trilogy. Then there was CG Leia who looked so incredibly realistic that it blew my mind how far tech has come to allow us to do something like that. I expected them to hide her face but man they really went there and it paid off imo.

I need to see this again on Blu-Ray asap

Edit: it was also one of those rare movies that received a positive reaction from me and my friends after we left the cinema; stayed outside the cinema for at least 20 minutes to discuss what happened in the movie like in the old days
 
Great film Dad was a bit taken aback when Peter Cushing appeared on screen.

For some reason for me Vaders neck seemed wrong every time he appeared on screen.

CGI people are getting better
 
The book Lost Stars is entirely about this. In short, indoctrination of youth, offering work/education opportunities to poor, and paint dissenters as a terrorist organization (and downplay their size). Hell, even Luke wants to go to the Imperial Academy because he wants to be a pilot.

The Empire doesn't appear tyrannical to the already-well-off systems. And offering industrialization to poorer worlds probably seems like a sweet deal until they start enslaving you and turn your planet into a smoggy shithole.

And there are tons of people defecting. Not by any means a majority, as their abandonment would be considered an act of treason obviously. But Luke's friend Biggs, Wedge, and a shit ton of other people are either Imperial deserters, or people who atleast underwent Imperial training.

And 90% of the people on-board the Death Star didn't even know it's purpose until Alderaan was destroyed. And by then, the planet is either painted as traitorous, or you're way too afraid to be the one guy in the back raising your hand saying "Hey that doesn't seem okay." Military organizations don't give a fuck about individual opinion.

One major factor for why the Empire works is because it actually does improve quality of life to the majority of its central systems, and I would assume this also goes for aliens on multicultural worlds. The Empire is pretty popular in the core worlds and Inner Rim, but this is something we don't really get to see in the movies as everything after the prequel trilogy takes place in the Outer Rim, a part of the galaxy that the Empire either ignores or takes advantage of.

Combine this with the Empire removing civilian access to the Holonet and strictly controlling the news, and you have everything you need to build a fascist society with the support of the people, who have no idea what's going on in the fringes of their society.
 
OH, and why did the Rebels decide to jump in on Scarif? They went from, "We can't help you" to "GO GO GO" so quickly. Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I completely missed their motivations for flip flopping and helping Jyn.
The Ackbar clone was chomping at the bit to fight during that meeting on Yavin, so I suppose the thought is that once he heard about the "rogue" attack on the base, he took that as a sign to go all in.

Non-Humans do work for the Empire, just not within the top structure. Bounty Hunters, informants, groups aligned etc. That's loose of course. You could also argue it's an extension of the clone army foundations so makes sense they wouldn't veer away from that and maybe indoctrination doesn't work as well on non humans and it's all about conforming to one look, one set of ideals. It's easy for film makers to point, bad guys.
I guess we don't see what happened to all those Senators - there's a mention of the Senate having some kind of power, but no one knows what they do. But you'd think they'd find it suspicious that their new leader decides to have a private army that only allows white men to serve in it. lol
 
I was pretty into how they killed off all the Rogues. It was really... savage? I guess? Or arbitrary? Like the space trucker dude didn't go out in a blaze of glory or anything. A faceless goon just threw a grenade and then he died. I forget which this was, but one of them got killed and then the cut away was super abrupt, felt like it was discarding the guy, kind of nonchalant. It was a nice like "hey by the way war is hell and bullets kill heroes just as easily as they kill grunts" kind of move that I didn't expect.
 
The real reason the Empire is all white dudes is because A)the original Star Wars was made mostly by white dudes and studio scenes were filmed in England I believe B)obviously trying to invoke NAZIS IN SPACE and C)to contrast the uniformity of the Empire with the diversity of the Rebels. The Rebels are all races, human and aliens, who work together for a common cause. There's a clear thematic message that cooperation leads to progress and hope for the future. In TFA you did see some non-white people play Imperial roles, but that could be explained that First Order is the remnants and they will just take who they can get.

I did think it was a bit strange that Cassian could blend in as an Imperial despite his beard. I can't think of a single Imperial officer with a beard in any Star Wars film.
 
This just shows how far the effects have come.

We'll have to wait a while, but compare this to Tarkin and the improvements will be very noticeable.
Meanwhile, in 2016 this CG monstrosity was on Hawaii 5-0 recently:
hawaii-five-0-jack-lord-cgi1.jpg


The real reason the Empire is all white dudes is because A)the original Star Wars was made mostly by white dudes and studio scenes were filmed in England I believe B)obviously trying to invoke NAZIS IN SPACE and C)to contrast the uniformity of the Empire with the diversity of the Rebels. The Rebels are all races, human and aliens, who work together for a common cause. There's a clear thematic message that cooperation leads to progress and hope for the future. In TFA you did see some non-white people play Imperial roles, but that could be explained that First Order is the remnants and they will just take who they can get.

I did think it was a bit strange that Cassian could blend in as an Imperial despite his beard. I can't think of a single Imperial officer with a beard in any Star Wars film.
I mean, I understand the original production issues. But since it's 2016 and they're slightly changing the canon anyway, I'd either like to see a more "diverse" Empire or some justification for the fact that all the aliens seem to just accept being treated as second class citizens in less than 2 decades of Palpatine's rule.

(Or why women aren't allowed to join the military lol)
 
I did think it was a bit strange that Cassian could blend in as an Imperial despite his beard. I can't think of a single Imperial officer with a beard in any Star Wars film.

I was actually expecting some imperial guy to tell him his beard wasn't regulation or something.
 
I liked Jyn's disguise. From previews and all I figured those were gun stocks or shock baton handles or something but nah they were airport tarmac stick guy flashlights. She looked all badass warrior from the front but minimum wage goober from behind.
 
The real reason the Empire is all white dudes is because A)the original Star Wars was made mostly by white dudes and studio scenes were filmed in England I believe B)obviously trying to invoke NAZIS IN SPACE and C)to contrast the uniformity of the Empire with the diversity of the Rebels. The Rebels are all races, human and aliens, who work together for a common cause. There's a clear thematic message that cooperation leads to progress and hope for the future. In TFA you did see some non-white people play Imperial roles, but that could be explained that First Order is the remnants and they will just take who they can get.

I did think it was a bit strange that Cassian could blend in as an Imperial despite his beard. I can't think of a single Imperial officer with a beard in any Star Wars film.


admiral Ozzel says hello. ;)
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also, this one 'Director'(?) guy from the Death Star conference room
71e94a974bf39c805af7b81a54be28a5.jpg


not to forget agent Kallus (Rebels) epic chops
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he even has a helmet specifically designed to protect his glorious facial hair!

also, admiral Konstantine (again, from Rebels)
 
It bothers me to see people say Jyn's "change of heart" came too abruptly. She realized what her father sacrificed to give her and rebels hope (it was a touching moment), and she had an opportunity to complete her father's revenge and clear his name. Why would she turn her back on the rebels?
 
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