No Female Heroes At Activision? (Gamastura Article)
- Thread starter Jex
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Kerrigan is kind of a bad example for this because the reason you don't see much of her in Wings of Liberity is because you play as her for the entirety of Heart of the Swarm, which is going to be a 15-20+ hour game focused on developing her character and motivations.Oxymoron said:
When you look at Blizzard's last singleplayer game, Warcraft III, you see that very large sections of the plot revolved around Sylvanas, Jaina, and Tyrande, with them often being the main character of their race's campaign. Even in the campaigns with a male lead, you would still often see a large focus on female characters like Vashj.
Are these especially well written characters? Perhaps not, but you could really say that for all of Blizzard's characters. And honestly, relative to the quality of their male characters, they're really some of the best characters they do, even if that's not saying especially much.
They really do as a company try to put a large focus on strong (relative to their writing ability) female characters, and it's a large reason why they have one of the largest female fan bases in the industry.
Okay, this is an entirely fair point.Oxymoron said:
badcrumble
Member
"Because it exists, it must not be a problem, it just is the way it is" is a pretty shitty philosophy, all in all.
badcrumble
Member
So the one thing worse than endemic sexism and racism is daring to call attention to them. Gotcha.2San said:
ElectricBlue187
Member
I for one demand a more realistic portrayal of caucasian americans from my blaxploitation filmsharSon said:
If you're talking about merely placing female protagonists in genres made for and dominated by males i.e. FPS, then no I don't they wouldn't be expanding their market. If you're talking about creating games in genres specifically DO cater to females then I agree with you 100%.Jexhius said:
Open Source
Banned
pslong009 said:
Maybe that is the future of gaming.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
I think it is probably innaccurate (or at least insufficient) to assume that female leads will appeal more to female gamers. I think the deeper structure of a game probably has a much bigger impact on diversity of appeal than something superficial like the gender of the main character. The research that I can remember (perhaps poorly) on this tends to indicate that women prefer different types of games, not necessarily different types of protagonists (though surely they will not be very interested in playing as a character designed specifically to appeal to males' baser interests).
More generally, it's unfortunate that Leigh Alexander's reputation/feminism/womanhood/tendency-to-sometimes-use-a-gender-lens-where-not-necessary-or-helpful so drastically impacts (or derails) the discussion of what should be an interesting and relevant issue in the industry. (And to be clear I'm not blaming her for this. She is who she is, and people's reactions to her color their reactions to the facts she reports. C'est la vie.)
More generally, it's unfortunate that Leigh Alexander's reputation/feminism/womanhood/tendency-to-sometimes-use-a-gender-lens-where-not-necessary-or-helpful so drastically impacts (or derails) the discussion of what should be an interesting and relevant issue in the industry. (And to be clear I'm not blaming her for this. She is who she is, and people's reactions to her color their reactions to the facts she reports. C'est la vie.)
Not enough people care about it. If they did it would change.harSon said:
And they didn't care enough to force it through.sonicmj1 said:
In the end of the day. All of you care enough to complain about it on a board, but will still buy all those games and movies.
Sexism and racism? Where? They are just targeting their core audience...badcrumble said:
Your average person wouldn't be able to fire a gun properly, either. Heather may have been a bit less realistic than the other two but you're talking about a game where the gameplay elements are pretty much entirely unrealistic and subservient to the atmosphere and experience. Heather successfully shooting a monster with a submachine gun is less realistic than Harry swinging a pipe into a monster, but both are almost totally unrealistic in terms of human behavior, particularly in the quantity presented.shidoshi said:
If you want to get into real behavior almost all of the characters should have huddled in a corner, throwing up on themselves out of terror. Harry, James, and Heather aren't male or female when it comes to the gameplay, but instead are simple avatars. Their behavior during cutscenes is where they as characters are defined, and I would say they were all more or less accurate in what I'd expect.
Although if you really want to get picky I'd argue that Heather acted precisely like a teen girl when she decided to go through the Mall of Doom rather than get her jacket dirty by squeezing around a van.
Sad that developers who do want to create games with minority leads have to fight so hard to convince publishers... and usually fail. 
It's amazing what lengths certain people in the entertainment industry will go to to perpetuate the idea that "only products with white male leads will sell, the majority can't relate to characters who don't look like them..." Confirmation bias, skewing the focus test results, etc.
Aside from the fact that it is problematic for minorities to be so underrepresented in the media outside of stereotypes, I simply would love to have more female protagonists for the same reason I'd like to see more PoC protagonists in games: a greater diversity of character backgrounds would lend itself to more variety in the stories told.
It's amazing what lengths certain people in the entertainment industry will go to to perpetuate the idea that "only products with white male leads will sell, the majority can't relate to characters who don't look like them..." Confirmation bias, skewing the focus test results, etc.Aside from the fact that it is problematic for minorities to be so underrepresented in the media outside of stereotypes, I simply would love to have more female protagonists for the same reason I'd like to see more PoC protagonists in games: a greater diversity of character backgrounds would lend itself to more variety in the stories told.
badcrumble
Member
Then the core audience is sexist and racist.2San said:
2San said:
What were you expecting? How is this Treyarch's fault? Their development studio is fully owned by Activision. Considering that they're no longer even developing the game in question, and the project got moved to a different studio, I think it suggests that they forced it hard enough that Activision wouldn't let them make the game at all. Were they supposed to start riots and set fires?
I haven't bought an Activision game in ages, and their business practices certainly aren't encouraging me to change my mind.
Jex
Member
2San said:
All right, this is going to be tricky people, I need to work backwards. I've annotated these quotes so that others can play along!
You said :
"There is no indication that a game with a female lead will sell better." (True, but the article actually deals with some dubious research that suggests they wouldn't do well.)
I replied :
"If they aren't a stupid business they could do a little research (apparently not the kind they've been doing up till now though) and understand their main audience." (See, here I'm mentioning that their research is dubious).
You said :
"Maybe they did?" (Apparently, you ignored the part of the article where the research was considered dubious. That's cool).
And your research is based on feelings? There is no proof that a female protagonist will sell better. Nor is there that male protagonist will sell better. So can't Activision do whatever they fuck they want? If you haven't noticed they aren't really open to innovation and just want to make money.
(I've apparently done research [not true, sadly]. You bring up the lack of proof research thing again, then you ask for Activision to be allowed to do what the fuck they want [which, ironically involves telling games publishers that they can't have female leads and makes your statement
very ironic.] You also wisely remind me that they are a business).2San said:
I reply :
"I've done research now? Sheeiit I should get me a grant or sumthin'." (Some light sarcasm, such is the curse of being British).
Then we finally get to your above claim :
"Oh you didn't do research so why would a female protagonist be better again?" (Once again you assert that I've claimed something which I never, ever claimed. Indeed, you may have missed the point by several miles)
faceless007
Member
Calcaneus said:
Seriously.
Activision engages in slash-and-burn tactics, milks every franchise for every penny and uses cutthroat bullying in the pursuit of as much profit as possible = "They're ruining the industry!"
Activision nixes female-led games = "Well they're just going where the market is."
ElectricBlue187
Member
You're right. You might even say dat ass is too perfect. Like maybe it was genetically enhanced or something...Nirolak said:
-_-
Ok so you assume their research is dubious because of Leigh Alexanders sources? :lol You got me there.Jexhius said:
Even then Activision is just doing what they think is the best course of action to sell those games. I can hardly fault them for that. I'm just pointing out this isn't as big of a problem as you guys make it out to be. Since in the end of the they you don't really care.sonicmj1 said:
Go ahead and not buy their games. If enough people follow your path, Activision might change their ways.
badcrumble
Member
The issue with a flawed audience, though, is that it's often the product creators that need to change in order to effect a shift in the audience.2San said:
I hope I can bring up an example from the civil rights movement without people jumping all over me and accusing me of saying that representation in gaming is as bad as racial segregation -
When restaurants and businesses used to be racially segregated, it was often not financially feasible for those businesses to integrate because their white patrons would vanish. They were segregated, in part, because their customers demanded it. Yet the change that was needed in order to stop segregation was to ban restaurants/schools/etc from segregating whatsoever (going after the suppliers of business/education) rather than to punish people for eating at segregated restaurants (going after the consumer).
This example isn't perfect because it's not something that's easily regulated and it'd make no sense to make every game have multiracial and multisexed protagonists (it'd eliminate the possibility of any protagonist but the create-your-own type), but what I'd tell the game industry with regard to well-written female protagonists in the right genre (especially adventure games and action-adventure) and a female audience is "if you build it, they will come."
How About No
Member
I've only played the demo for Mass Effect 2, but you better damn well believe I made Shepherd a smoking hot brunette. Not sure if I'm helping or not
I understand that's part of her character, but I'm assuming Oxymoron's point is that we didn't see any male characters pandering on the level she was.ElectricBlue187 said:
Morrigan I disagree with though. Her pandering is really on par with Alistair's, even if done in a different manner, and thus seems quite equal.
Jex
Member
2San said:
So because Leigh talks to a source they automatically become invalid? Now who has a crazy bias :lol
Everyone should also check out the thread on Gamastura. It's as stupid/depressing/funny/occasionally-good-natured as this one.
It's hilarious that people slam her article because they accuse her of looking through some feminist-centric lens, but then look out through their own anti-Alexander lens and ignore perfectly reasonable claims. (not directing this at anyone in particular *cough*)
faceless007 said:
Apparently.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
games journalist
welp
welp
ElectricBlue187
Member
I call bullshit, sir. Not only do all characters, male female alien or human wear similarly styled bodysuits like Miranda but she even had a male counterpart in Jacob that was everybit as aimed at being female shepards natural male sex interestNirolak said:
From the things I've read about her she doesn't come off as a good source. If a gamedev himself would have said you might have point. I don't go for the whole anonymous source thing.Jexhius said:
I understand what you mean, I just feel that you can't expect or demand that kind of responsibility from a company.badcrumble said:
Okay, I will defer to your viewpoint here. I only played a male Shepard, so I never saw Jacob's romance side as opposed to seeing Alistair's side with my female Warden.ElectricBlue187 said:
The person I knew who played a female Shepard probably didn't do a good job informing me, so I shouldn't have spoke without personal experience.
