• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vincent Alexander said:
I took the scene the same way. Not a great scene by any means, but they seemed like they were having fun with each other at the end.
Click to expand...

I thought they were very clearly teasing one another.

edit ^^ you guys still fighting the Disney/Lucasfilm fight are never going to learn, just as you cannot teach an entire populace on the matter
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
You literally said you had no problem with how she was written

Ewan was indeed better (for whatever that's worth), but it helped he wasn't shoe-horned into a terrible love story
Click to expand...
It also helps that Ewan and McDirmid were pretty much the only ones working with remotely salvageable materials.

Unless you really want to try and say that Portman, Neeson, Jackson, Lee, and Oz
and Christiansen
all just collectively decided to turn up and do the bare minimum to get a paycheck.
 
brandonh83 said:
I was wrong to say that I loved every single aspect of Padme Amidala.

Shit, wait, I didn't.
Click to expand...

You didn't indeed, which is also why I didn't state you did. What you did say was "I don't really have a problem with how she was written or developed," when even you acknowledged the dialogue is a problem, which is a part of how she was written
 
GAMEPROFF said:
I dont understand why this movie should have legs through the holydays. Because its about a couple of spys and there is a bit more space fighting? Its still super harmless, ROTS was way more brutal when Anakin got burned.
Click to expand...
Because the main characters die. That's a lot bleaker than any short moments of gore or death. Star Wars films are always about good overwinning evil. Here, not so much. It's definitely not a kid's movie anymore.


(But it will definitely have legs through the holidays)
 
Boem said:
I'm wondering if Lucasfilm is going to use this technique to bring Ehrenreich and Glover closer to Ford and Williams for the Han Solo solo film. I know they did a bit of de-aging clean up on Ford and Fisher for Force Awakens (which wasn't needed for me, but hey), and of course we got CG Cushing and young Fisher in this one.
Click to expand...

I strongly doubt it. If you're gonna re-cast like that, get out of the actor's way. Plus I can't imagine how expensive it would be to apply that level of digital make-up to the two leads for the entirety of the movie. Ant-Man worked because it was like a 2 min scene. Same with Civil War (although that wasn't as good as Ant-Man's, somehow). Tarkin really only works when he's not talking, because they chose to completely animate the whole head instead of actually applying digital makeup to the actor underneath (thus not quite getting the mouth right), and he's also only in the film for a pretty limited amount of time, all things told.

You get Ehrenreich and Glover because you want them right up front. Not because you're going to build digital faces to go over theirs somewhat.

The fact this didn't get knocked out of the park means ILM is probably gonna have to go back to the lab on this. They'll probably try it again on Episode 9 (resurrecting Alec Guinness maybe? Who knows), but I dont' think they're gonna try so soon, and on actors who are as charismatic as Glover & Ehrenreich are.

brandonh83 said:
edit ^^ you guys still fighting the Disney/Lucasfilm fight are never going to learn,
Click to expand...

I mean, you're currently trying to educate us on how Padme's a decently conceptualized character, so...
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
You didn't indeed, which is also why I didn't state you did. What you did say was "I don't really have a problem with how she was written or developed," when even you acknowledged the dialogue is a problem, which is a part of how she was written
Click to expand...

The dialogue was bad.
I don't have much of a problem with her existence or character.
I don't like Portman's performance.

Bobby Roberts said:
I mean, you're currently trying to educate us on how Padme's a decently conceptualized character, so...
Click to expand...

Nowhere have I done such! I said that I thought she was okay, that I didn't have a problem with her. I'm not telling anyone they're wrong about her.
 
Boem said:
I'm wondering if Lucasfilm is going to use this technique to bring Ehrenreich and Glover closer to Ford and Williams for the Han Solo solo film. I know they did a bit of de-aging clean up on Ford and Fisher for Force Awakens (which wasn't needed for me, but hey), and of course we got CG Cushing and young Fisher in this one.

The technology obviously isn't there yet for a full CG Harrison Ford model to take the lead role in his own movie, and the two actors obviously already look close to the characters they're trying to portray, but I can imagine Lucasfilm wanting to try and alter it slightly just to get that little bit closer.

I think the better solution would be to simply let Ehrenreich do his thing and play his version of Solo, even if it doesn't end up being 100% Harrison Ford. They'll never cross that border into it looking like reality in that time, especially since we're all so familiar with the original actors and the fact that they have aged.

I still don't now how I feel about them resurrecting Peter Cushing like this. From a plot perspective it was cool, and even though the effect immediately took me out of the movie (to the point where any scene with him was a bit hard to focus on for me), I do like the balls it must have taken to go ahead with that attempt. People often accuse Lucasfilm (or rather Disney for some reason) of taking the easiest route with these movies, but I don't see that at all. You could argue for that with the plot of TFA, but R1 takes a couple of twists that really are a bit of a gamble when it comes to a franchise this big - not the least of which killing off your entire cast. I honestly admire them a bit for that.

But yeah, philosophically I still feel incredibly uneasy about the whole thing, although I do know that the Cushing estate was consulted on this. I'm seeing surprisingly little discussion about it, because it was almost the first thing everyone in my group started talking about when we walked out of the theatre. That article about Robin Williams making some copyright assurances that they couldn't do it with his likeness after his death really got me in a weird way - especially because all he could do was make sure they couldn't do it for a set number of years. After that people would be free to throw a CG Williams in their movie. It's weirding me out a lot.

(about the movie itself: loved it, with all its flaws. I was never into the expanded universe but this felt like what the expanded universe at its best should feel like. I want more smaller scale one off stories about nobodies (relative to the Skywalkers and Kenobi's of that world). The market scene was magic, and really brought me back to the kinds of worlds I would imagine as a kid. It was quite striking).
Click to expand...
It doesn't sit that well with me. Leia I'm more okay with, I guess cause Fisher is still alive and she presumeably had a say in this. Even if Cushing's estate signed off, ya know, maybe Peter Cushing should have the last say on what Peter Cushing appears in. And if Peter Cushing's not around to do that, then let it be.

If nothing else, I'd rather have a discussion about whether or not the recast performer did a good job versus how uncomfortable the computer man made you feel.
 
The Dark Souls 2 of Star Wars films. It had pedigree and all the right components were there, but somehow it managed to be something less than the some of its parts. I came away very disappointed. Yuck. CGI people were creepy.
 
It's like the fact that you noticed it was CGI doesn't make you a more sophisticated observer of visual effects. Pretty much everyone knows their faces were CGI. It was pretty effective for the most part but not perfect.
 
brandonh83 said:
The dialogue was bad.
I don't have much of a problem with her existence or character.
I don't like Portman's performance.

Is that clear enough?
Click to expand...

Yes, and if you had said that originally or in any of your follow-ups instead of the idea of her only being a flawed character because of Portman, we wouldn't have needed this exchange.
even if it's still baffling
 
I'm going to be honest everyone. I just left the movie theaters and aside from the shamelessly awesome Darth Vader fanservice, that was some by-the-books rental-tier fodder.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Star Wars is also fantasy. And I don't know that I'd agree that Rogue One is somehow more "gritty" than most of Fellowship of the Ring. Definitely not as much in Two Towers or Return of the King.

How are the concepts of good and evil so muddied in Rogue One? And where is the sharp divergence from Campbellian roots in Rogue One as opposed to Lord of the Rings? I'm not saying one didn't do it better than the other (because Fellowship is obviously a much better fim than Rogue One) but I'm not seeing how it is one is so wildly different, tonally, than the other.

You were initially arguing that you think legs would be bad because Rogue One isn't very family friendly. Neither was any Lord of the Rings movie. I'm pretty sure at least one of them almost got an R before cuts were made, if I remember right.
Click to expand...

Star Wars is fantasy, but Rogue One is a pretty big diversion from mainline Star Wars.

LoTR never has anything like Saw Gerrera, a good guy, torturing another good guy with a giant scary brain squid. (sidenote: Was Saw inhaling air of drugs from that mask? The way Whittaker played it, it sure seemed like drugs.) It doesn't have anything like Cassius murdering a dude in cold blood to keep him from falling into the hands of the Empire. It certainly doesn't have every single major protagonist dying in the end.

To me, family friendly isn't just about with violence or ratings, it also has to do with the structure of the story and the themes. Anecdotally, when I watched a LoTR movie the kids I saw leaving the theater where pumped, they just went on a dangerous adventure. At the end of Rouge One, they all shuffled out quietly.
 
Tom Nook Sawyer said:
Yes, and if you had said that originally or in any of your follow-ups instead of the idea of her only being a flawed character because of Portman, we wouldn't have needed this exchange.
Click to expand...

I don't really know why you give a shit in the first place if I'm being honest.

Afrocious said:
wait are you saying portman is a bad actress
Click to expand...

I think she's bad in these movies, yes. Saying she's bad in some movies is not saying she's a bad actress in general.
 
Cheebo said:
They didn't recast Mothma. It is the same actress they cast for her from Revenge of the Sith.

Mon+Mothma.jpg
Click to expand...

I honestly don't remember her from the prequels.
 
TheXbox said:
It doesn't sit that well with me. Leia I'm more okay with, I guess cause Fisher is still alive and she presumeably had a say in this. Even if Cushing's estate signed off, ya know, maybe Peter Cushing should have the last say on what Peter Cushing appears in. And if Peter Cushing's not around to do that, then let it be.

If nothing else, I'd rather have a discussion about whether or not the recast performer did a good job versus how uncomfortable the computer man made you feel.
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, George Lucas was publicly talking about wanting to do this long enough ago that it is possible that he might have talked to Cushing about it before he passed.
 
BlastProcessing said:
Star Wars is fantasy, but Rogue One is a pretty big diversion from mainline Star Wars.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It's a couple steps sideways, but I don't see it as being that big a deviation. To each their reach on that one, though.

LoTR never has anything like Saw Gerrera, a good guy, torturing another good guy with a giant scary brain squid.
Click to expand...

No, it's got Denethor, sending his son on an unwinnable mission for no real reason, and then going nuts and trying to light him and himself both on fire in a bizarre suicide attempt.

Denethor is ostensibly a good guy, but not really. Same with Saw Gerrera. I can see a pretty clean parallel there between people fighting a good fight for a long time and getting completely fucked in the head by it, to the point where they're no longer even good guys now, they're just fighting for the fight of it.

(sidenote: Was Saw inhaling air of drugs from that mask
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it was some sort of painkiller? It was, I thought obviously, meant to draw a parallel that considered Saw the Rebellion's Darth Vader analogue, more or less.
 
Nairume said:
For what it's worth, George Lucas was publicly talking about wanting to do this long enough ago that it is possible that he might have talked to Cushing about it before he passed.
Click to expand...
That's another - admittedly petty - reason this bothers me. It's a total George Lucas move. Computer magic for the sake of computer magic. I thought the franchise had moved away from that ethos.
 
BlastProcessing said:
It's interesting, I have the near opposite impression of the films. TFA feels like a movie that understands the core of what makes Star Wars. It feels like a natural part of the series.

RO is the film that feels like it has been filtered through decades of Star Wars culture. RO felt like a extended universe book or videogame. Right down to its forced cameos that felt like they where crammed in an attempt to borrow some legitimacy from the mainline films.

TFA feels like a natural part of the series. RO is that extended universe book that you tell all of you friends to read because "This one is actually pretty good!"

I want to stress that I enjoyed Rouge One and I am glad that Disney is carving out this new place for films in the Star Wars universe. A place where they can be more ambitious.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding! I feel exactly the same. My post from the other thread:

I'm frankly astounded that a film that amounts to little more than blatant fan service aimed squarely at OT fanboys (of which I am one, btw) has lead to such an overwhelmingly positive response.

There are a host of minor things that bothered me about this film (and lots of little things to praise just the same), but I'll stick with the most damning. Since when did the characters not matter in Star Wars? It's about more than just blaster rifles, star destroyers, and space aliens, right? Hell, I love all of those things; after all, the SW Universe is a cool place, but who the hell wants to explore it with characters as poorly developed as these? They had no depth whatsoever, much less any sort of arc.

To be fair, characters in a war movie don't necessarily even need a traditional arc, but if that's the case, the audience should at least expect to get to know them, figure what makes them tick, what their motivations are beyond "I fight the empire because they're obviously bad guys", and so forth -- or else the drama falls flat and the audience has no reason to care about any of these people, as was sadly the case here. And, no, giving a character a few funny throw away lines, slick fighting abilities, or cool weapons and armor isn't compensation.

For all of its problems (and it has plenty), TFA has good characters and dramatic weight. Rey and Kylo, for instance, both have aspirations, faults, face conflict external as well as internal, and struggle with their past/family (one to free themselves of it, the other to reconnect with it). Now, in RO, Jen is the only character to really receive any real attention. But aside from her backstory, she's practically a blank state, immediately thrust into the action and manipulated by the plot. Her "tragic" backstory is really just a convenient thread to pull at from time to time in order to move the story closer to its conclusion.

Ultimately, this film just felt completely inconsequential and forgettable -- I mean it is quite literally just an imaginative retelling of the first two paragraphs of the A NEW HOPE opening scrawl after all. It could have just as well have been a throw away five issue comic series, a long cut scene from a SW video game, or a mediocre EU novel no one ever bothered to read. The fact it turned out this way just confirms all of my cynical doubts as to why this film was green-lit in the first place $$$. Don't get me wrong, commercialization has been with the SW franchise from the very start, but the commodification was always limited to merchandise, insignificant non canon spin offs, or *doesn't really count* EU fiction. With Rogue One and soon young Han Solo (ugh), the films themselves have become the commodities. Say what you will about Lucas and his faults as a filmmaker, but his goal was always to tell a story first.
Click to expand...

I'll add that all of my friends that watched the film with me (huge OT fans / prequel haters) loved the hell out of this. It's made me question what the difference between us is and I think I figured it out. My friends seem to be operating at the level of fandom where they just enjoy spending time in a familiar universe, much in the same way I would eagerly devour anything and everything Star Wars related as a kid -- but Star Wars long ago lost that sort of appeal for me. I still love the original trilogy, of course, because they are great films. I'm just not interested in the universe anymore unless its coupled with really great storytelling. This film was not that for me. But I guess it was enough for the former type of fan.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Pretty sure it was some sort of painkiller? It was, I thought obviously, meant to draw a parallel that considered Saw the Rebellion's Darth Vader analogue, more or less.
Click to expand...

I believe the visual guide mentions he has some sort Geonosian disease that requires him to to use that machine. We'all probably learn more about that in the winter premiere of Rebels since both him and Geonosis will be featured.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
I disagree. It's a couple steps sideways, but I don't see it as being that big a deviation. To each their reach on that one, though.



No, it's got Denethor, sending his son on an unwinnable mission for no real reason, and then going nuts and trying to light him and himself both on fire in a bizarre suicide attempt.

Denethor is ostensibly a good guy, but not really. Same with Saw Gerrera. I can see a pretty clean parallel there between people fighting a good fight for a long time and getting completely fucked in the head by it, to the point where they're no longer even good guys now, they're just fighting for the fight of it.



Pretty sure it was some sort of painkiller? It was, I thought obviously, meant to draw a parallel that considered Saw the Rebellion's Darth Vader analogue, more or less.
Click to expand...

Denthanor is depiction is quite villainous. Saw reads as confused and dangerous in a way that Denthanor simply does not. Denthanor also dies a suitable death while Saw's last words to Jyn are heroic. Saw is an interesting character and in a better movie I think there is a lot there to be mined. As it is, he is a stepping stone for Jyn's very confusing hero's journey.

Would you seriously consider showing a 7 year old Rouge One before you showed them Fellowship? I just have a hard time understanding that.
 
BlastProcessing said:
Denthanor is depiction is quite villainous. Saw reads as confused and dangerous in a way that Denthanor simply does not. Denthanor also dies a suitable death while Saw's last words to Jyn are heroic. Saw is an interesting character and in a better movie I think there is a lot there to be mined. As it is, he is a stepping stone for Jyn's very confusing hero's journey.

Would you seriously consider showing a 7 year old Rouge One before you showed them Fellowship? I just have a hard time understanding that.
Click to expand...

Well, a seven year old would probably fall asleep during Fellowship.
 
BlastProcessing said:
Denthanor is depiction is quite villainous. Saw reads as confused and dangerous in a way that Denthanor simply does not. Denthanor also dies a suitable death while Saw's last words to Jyn are heroic. Saw is an interesting character and in a better movie I think there is a lot there to be mined. As it is, he is a stepping stone for Jyn's very confusing hero's journey.

Would you seriously consider showing a 7 year old Rouge One before you showed them Fellowship? I just have a hard time understanding that.
Click to expand...
c62732eabd256ada30ae9974bc567a68.gif


I mean...yeah.
 
Nairume said:
We see her volunteering for a guerilla assault against imperials within five years of this. Her being present at Scarif isn't out of the ordinary.
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to me that she would go. She obviously always believed in standing up to the Empire. The Rebellion in Rogue One are depicted as being fractured and indecisive. I think she would have jumped at the chance to lead by example and try to force the Rebels to unify through action.
 
Pretty impressive that they had constructed the second death star to the point they had considering they had to address the first one's design flaw.
 
BlastProcessing said:
Would you seriously consider showing a 7 year old Rouge One before you showed them Fellowship? I just have a hard time understanding that.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I'd consider showing a 7 year old either film but I don't think either film is tonally that different, and I'm also not a parent, and it really depends on the kid. One film executes it better but they're both dealing in imagery and emotions that aren't really keeping anyone under 13 in mind at all. That's not to say kids can't appreciate things outside their age range, because of course they can. I'm pretty sure most of us here can point to a relevant example in our own lives. But I don't see how, especially when it pertains to box-office legs, it can be so easily suggested that the tone of this movie is somehow going to be a detriment going forward when some of the most successful films at the box-office are even less family-friendly than either of these two examples we're using.

And I don't think Saw is an interesting character in this film, either. He's a lip-licking dickhead, a paranoid, counterproductive mess. His last words aren't even that heroic. It's one of the few things that played better in the trailers sans context than it does in the film with it, because "Save the Rebellion" makes no sense coming from him, especially at that point in his life. His concept of "the dream" is obviously fucking long gone from what anyone else's is.
 
I need to see it again, but my first impression was that it was just OK. The new characters didn't excite me. Liked some of the effects that worked in images of A New Hope. Didnt like cgi tarkin much and his voice wasn't that good. And James Earl Jones, sadly, sounded very old. Plus, don't know what it was, but the neck of the Vader helmet did not look right. Nitpicky stuff I know, but these are just my first quick impressions. Most of the battle scenes were cool, and Vader flippin his shit was great. But my overall feel wasnt amazement. Though I need another viewing or two before I fully cement an opinion.
 
Has there been a strong reaction to the retcon with the original Death Star and the exhaust port? I get the feeling most people are okay with it.
 
Just came back from seeing it and it was okay. Takes far too long get going but the second they get on the planet to find and transmit the Death Star plans it picks up. Very few of the Main Characters were really likable apart from the male and female leads. I really think the CGI Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher were silly and unnecessary.
 
CG Tarkin was bad, CG Leia looked horrible.
Anytime he was on screen it was all I could see/think about.
The technology isn't there yet really.

Though I will say that de-aging RDJ in Civil War was the best attempt at it this far.

Spectral Glider said:
... Plus, don't know what it was, but the neck of the Vader helmet did not look right. .
Click to expand...
Yes I bothered me too. The neck piece of the helmet looked very cheap. Ruined his presence for me because it made him look so stupid.
 
OricWindstar said:
c62732eabd256ada30ae9974bc567a68.gif


I mean...yeah.
Click to expand...

I think there is a pretty big difference between scary and depressing. Hell, most kids like getting a little scarred, not sure as many enjoy being a little depressed.

I just don't see Rogue One getting the type of cultural traction that TFA or LoTR did. I don't think we will see as many toys or halloween costumes. I don't think kids are going to want to watch it again and again in the same way. It is a movie where people talk about hope a lot, but we don't really see that hope rewarded.

TheXbox said:
Has there been a strong reaction to the retcon with the original Death Star and the exhaust port? I get the feeling most people are okay with it.
Click to expand...

I think that was the strongest part of the film. To me, it was the most Star Wars thing in Rogue One. The idea that something as huge and unstoppable as the Death Star could be brought down by a father's love for his child is what I want from Star Wars.
 
TheXbox said:
Has there been a strong reaction to the retcon with the original Death Star and the exhaust port? I get the feeling most people are okay with it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it even fixes the original issue. I don't think it was ever about that fact that a missile could set off a chain reaction if it reached the core--it was that there was a freakin' exhaust port that led directly to it without something as simple as a grate blocking the way

Edit: Well, I guess it kind of does fix it in a really roundabout way? If the chain-reaction wasn't thought to be possible then the exhaust port wouldn't matter...but even still, that's something you'd think you'd want to safeguard against just to, you know, cover their bases
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

George Lucas and James Cameron on Star Wars Rebels and Terrorists
2
56
1K
kevboard replied
Star Wars: Eyes Like Stars announced
2
75
1K
AJUMP23 replied
Star Wars: Visions Volume 3
5
333
RagnarokIV replied
Andor S2 |OT| Remember Star Wars?
2 3 4 5
206
7K
AJUMP23 replied
George Lucas told an impossible story in Star Wars
2
79
3K
Randall365 replied
Top Bottom