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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story |OT| They rebel - SPOILERS

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Gemüsepizza;226819923 said:
This is especially astonishing when you take a look at the MCU. Those writers could easily write a better Star Wars movie than this,
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They didn't need to die, but I was so happy we finally didn't get some Mary Sues float through everything like royalty where off screen thousands get slaughtered. Also Marvel films are the worst with every movie being the exact same thing. I feared that's what the spin-offs would be too, but in this way, sure I'll have some more Star Wars spin-offs.


Also can we all agree
lol we certainly can't
that Mendehlson was a great villain? Getting force choked and fucking smiling afterwards because he loves power?
Someone else would've chewed the scenery in that role, like robot Tarkin did, but he kept it nicely restrained.
 
3 things.

Chracters were mostly boring and forgettable

Star wars continues the tradition of having bad protagonists

The last half hour of the movie, plus one scene, are worthy of the ticket price.


If you like wars, and stars, you will like this, if you're in SW only for the lightsabers, don't go.
 
What I enjoyed most about Rogue One was watching a Star Wars film that wasn't made through the filter of nostalgia and trying to recreate the feel of ANH. Rogue One has its own callbacks but its style and tone are just unique enough to make me think: "So that's what Star Wars can be like in the hands of different directors." It makes me more excited for future "A Star Wars Story" films.

The good part of this movie, the home stretch, tries to recreate the feel of Jedi tho. That three-battle climax. Heroine faces her nemesis over the legacy of her father, platoon of plucky soldiers fights an insurgent action against Imperial walkers, squidman leads a losing space battle against superior Imperial fleet.
 
Saw it yesterday. Easily the best SW since the original trilogy. I'm no SW fan, so it might even be better than some of the OG ones.

Action was...competent? In a SW movie? Ermagawd. The older ones had good dogfighting, but lightsaber stuff was never as good as DV here and the shoot-outs were really good in parts.

Now, the story, eh, really servicable, I'd say. A lot of really convenient shit happening, like Vader fullfilling his force choke fetish instead of getting the USB stick in time -and the whole plot of the Death Star's super secret weakness being on purpose-
and don't get me started on SW's fighter planes traveling through the galaxy in time to bomb fools in hours at best, or eavesdropping on an important message that was probably sent at FTL speed at a direction in space that makes picking it up...improbable in general, let alone when you have like ten guys at the radio
, BUT I really liked the whole cloak-and-dagger premise, seeing the dirty side of the rebellion in those saboteurs and assassins, the pacing was good IMO, yeah, nice. And while the sorta Deus ex machina ramming-ships-through-each-other-and-a-duper-shield-just-in-time and Vader having to choke a bitch instead of just slicing those dudes and getting the surprisingly badly encrypted data back is a bit eyeroll worthy when you think about it, it just FUN to watch.

I will get the bluray. Might even watch it in the theatre again.


Now I will read the thread and see if I'm dumb for liking it and not feeling The Force Awakens' wannabe badass patricidal crybaby villain.
 
Why was Forest Whitaker even in the film? Disney laying the groundwork for another movie?

He could've been cut entirely and it would've made the first hour a lot more coherent from a plot perspective.
 
The good part of this movie, the home stretch, tries to recreate the feel of Jedi tho. That three-battle climax. Heroine faces her nemesis over the legacy of her father, platoon of plucky soldiers fights an insurgent action against Imperial walkers, squidman leads a losing space battle against superior Imperial fleet.

Yes but anything else wouldn't make sense, and it is logically built up to it.
It's a research facility with several military prototype plans, so a level of security is already a given. Although I'm not so much a fan of the planetary shield (I know it exists in RotJ).
Why Mendelsohn personally has to be around, and never thinks during the attack to evac? Well that flaw seems to be shared between most of the empire's higher brass.
 
Why was Forest Whitaker even in the film? Disney laying the groundwork for another movie?

He could've been cut entirely and it would've made the first hour a lot more coherent from a plot perspective.

Na, just ending a character arc from The Clone Wars/Rebels. Well, ending a character at least. I feel his role probably got cut down in rewrites, not so much because of the scenes in trailers that he doesn't have in the movie, but because he serves only to give Jyn the message from Galen...I think it was probably Lucasfilm partly looking for characters from TCW/Rebels they could use to have something for fans of those but then not really knowing what to do with him.

I didn't think Whitaker was bad, just the character was badly used.
 
Na, just ending a character arc from The Clone Wars/Rebels. Well, ending a character at least. I feel his role probably got cut down in rewrites, not so much because of the scenes in trailers that he doesn't have in the movie, but because he serves only to give Jyn the message from Galen...I think it was probably Lucasfilm partly looking for characters from TCW/Rebels they could use to have something for fans of those but then not really knowing what to do with him.

I didn't think Whitaker was bad, just the character was badly used.

Pablo said they actually had this terrorist character written first, but only later decided to make him Saw Gerrera after Pablo brought up the character they were writing was already very similar to Saw.
 
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GOAT scene

This was fan service in the best sense of the term. We finally see Vader as we've built him up to be, but has never actually been in any of the films. And they got the tone absolutely right: it plays like a scene from a horror film. They're getting slaughtered by this unstoppable monster while trapped like rats in a cage, and the music is scary, not some riff on the Imperial March. It's exactly what running into Vader would feel like to those grunts.
 
Also can we all agree
lol we certainly can't
that Mendehlson was a great villain? Getting force choked and fucking smiling afterwards because he loves power?
Someone else would've chewed the scenery in that role, like robot Tarkin did, but he kept it nicely restrained.

I agree, he nailed it.

And for what it's worth, it's a damn near perfect recreation of the character in Rogue One: Catalyst.
 
Na, just ending a character arc from The Clone Wars/Rebels. Well, ending a character at least. I feel his role probably got cut down in rewrites, not so much because of the scenes in trailers that he doesn't have in the movie, but because he serves only to give Jyn the message from Galen...I think it was probably Lucasfilm partly looking for characters from TCW/Rebels they could use to have something for fans of those but then not really knowing what to do with him.

I didn't think Whitaker was bad, just the character was badly used.

Yeah he and everything revolving around him was the weakest bit in terms of writing. What was up with the space slug reading minds, Saw's mental state and the pilot's mental state. All of it felt so inconsequential.
 
Now I will read the thread and see if I'm dumb for liking it and not feeling The Force Awakens' wannabe badass patricidal crybaby villain.

Why not like both? That scene at the end of RO proves once and for all it was pointless to even try and replace Vader, the best thing to do was cook up a villain who worships the GOAT instead. The movies are apples and oranges, not everyone likes apples and oranges, but I do. :)
 
DerZuhälter;226841730 said:
Yeah he and everything revolving around him was the weakest bit in terms of writing. What was up with the space slug reading minds, Saw's mental state and the pilot's mental state. All of it felt so inconsequential.

Yeah, this is how I felt.

The weakest part of the movie was definitely the first hour. It was hard to follow and lots of it seemed pointless. Even the whole bit with her family probably could've been cut and communicated in a better way. The time could've been spent developing the main characters, most of which felt...hollow.
 
I don't get the end. Now that she has the data, why does Leia end up smuggling the data to Obi Wan (some random old dude she's basically never met) instead of directly sending it to the Rebels...the people who know about the data and are obviously in the know about the whole mission to retrieve it? wtf.
 
I agree, he nailed it.

And for what it's worth, it's a damn near perfect recreation of the character in Rogue One: Catalyst.

I'm pretty sure the characters from the new movies popping up in a prequel book coming out just before the movie are based on how they are written in the script/early cuts of that movie, not the other way around.

Other than that, I do agree with you.

I don't get the end. Now that she has the data, why does Leia end up smuggling the data to Obi Wan instead of directly sending it to the Rebels?

Leia having to go after Obi Wan and Leia having the data are two separate missions. They need the data to find the weak spot in the Death Star, they need Obi Wan because this is the biggest threat they faced since the Empire came into power and they want his help.

In a New Hope it's more chance that R2 and the plans end up with Obi Wan before Leia has a chance to get to Obi Wan herself. It's not a coincidence they're above Tatooine when Leia has to drop R2 off with the plans and the message for Obi (which I really like actually), as Leia wanted to go there anyway.

If Vader didn't immediately come after Leia and they were able to make a clean getaway, Leia would have just gone to Obi Wan herself and taken him and the plans to the rebels. That was the original plan.

They also don't want Vader/the Empire catching their transmissions/seeing the plans as it would both reveal the location of the rebel base and the fact that the Death Star has that flaw built into it. They also didn't really have time, given that the beginning of New Hope and the end of R1 are only moments apart.
 
DerZuhälter;226841730 said:
Yeah he and everything revolving around him was the weakest bit in terms of writing. What was up with the space slug reading minds, Saw's mental state and the pilot's mental state. All of it felt so inconsequential.

That did indeed seem like a waste of time. I'm not quite sure where they were going with that.

I was expecting Saw to be a major player in the movie and to see the pilot being crazy. Neither of which happened. Instead they spend a good chunk of the movie talking about this "Saw"-fella, only to have him
ingloriously crushed
. I don't think I could've cared less about what happened to him, to be honest.

But, I think Jyn was pretty badass. I wasn't fond of Captain Andor, and I think the whole "kung-fu-jedi"-scene with Chirrut to be absolutely pointless.

All in all, though, it was a solid movie with great effects (Tarkin was creepy though) and a great cast. Except for Andor. And Chirrut. And Saw. And Baze.

I don't get the end. Now that she has the data, why does Leia end up smuggling the data to Obi Wan (some random old dude she's basically never met) instead of directly sending it to the Rebels...the people who know about the data and are obviously in the know about the whole mission to retrieve it? wtf.

That's a mighty fine question. Perhaps they couldn't get near the rebels to transmit it? Also, at the fantastic Vader-scene - why did that guy wait until the very last second to hand over the precious data, that so many people died for?
 
I don't get the end. Now that she has the data, why does Leia end up smuggling the data to Obi Wan (some random old dude she's basically never met) instead of directly sending it to the Rebels...the people who know about the data and are obviously in the know about the whole mission to retrieve it? wtf.
Because she is being followed by Darth Vader and is being captured. Also, she can't jump straight to the rebel base, because that would be kind of dangerous.

Maybe they can track where the transmission would go, so it had to be done physically.
 
I don't get the end. Now that she has the data, why does Leia end up smuggling the data to Obi Wan (some random old dude she's basically never met) instead of directly sending it to the Rebels...the people who know about the data and are obviously in the know about the whole mission to retrieve it? wtf.

Her Mission was to meet Obi Wan to pick him up.
Nobody expected that the Nebulon-Frigatt is going to be ambushed by a Star Destroyer, so she just took the data and fleet with it.
And since she was followed by a Star Destroyer, she had no time to fly to a Rebel base to give the data away.
 
I'm pretty sure the characters from the new movies popping up in a prequel book coming out just before the movie are based on how they are written in the script/early cuts of that movie, not the other way around.

Other than that, I do agree with you.



Leia having to go after Obi Wan and Leia having the data are two separate missions. They need the data to find the weak spot in the Death Star, they need Obi Wan because this is the biggest threat they faced since the Empire came into power and they want his help.

In a New Hope it's more chance that R2 and the plans end up with Obi Wan before Leia has a chance to get to Obi Wan herself. It's not a coincidence they're above Tatooine when Leia has to drop R2 off with the plans and the message for Obi (which I really like actually), as Leia wanted to go there anyway.

If Vader didn't immediately come after Leia and they were able to make a clean getaway, Leia would have just gone to Obi Wan herself and taken him and the plans to the rebels. That was the original plan.

How about plan B: Deliver the data to the rebels first (because it's important and stuff), then go find Obi Wan Kenobi.

Because she is being followed by Darth Vader and is being captured. Also, she can't jump straight to the rebel base, because that would be kind of dangerous.

Maybe they can track where the transmission would go, so it had to be done physically.

meh.

That's a mighty fine question. Perhaps they couldn't get near the rebels to transmit it? Also, at the fantastic Vader-scene - why did that guy wait until the very last second to hand over the precious data, that so many people died for?

That bugged the shit out of me too. It's like....hurry the fuck up and slide the data out the slit in the door, guy. Don't wait until everyone behind you is dead or the door closes.
 
I hate how every movie/tv series discussion eventually devolves into trying to poke holes into the plot like you didn't just watch a fucking movie about a moon sized weapon of mass destruction.
 
I hate how every movie/tv series discussion eventually devolves into trying to poke holes into the plot like you didn't just watch a fucking movie about a moon sized weapon of mass destruction.

Yeah, thats when the thread jumps the shark. We are not quiete there yet but we are getting dangerously close.
But we already pulled of five days, thats about 4 more then the usuall Star Wars thread.
 
I really liked the movie, but I felt it had few issues which hold it back somewhat:

Firstly, I think the biggest issue is its writing. They seem to have known what the main story beats would be, almost as a bullet point list, but they then fail to flesh out dialogue, motivations and context in many important areas.

Character development is really lacking. I read the Catalyst book before seeing this, so it gave me a good introduction into who Krennic, Galen, Lyra and Saw were, as well as establishing the rivalry between Krennic and Tarkin. So, when Lyra and later Galen died, I had some connection with them, however if I hadn't read the book, then I would imagine the deaths would have had little impact.

I found that characters decisions and also deaths often had little weight to them. When Galen dies, Jyn is upset, but the movie doesn't really use it effectively. She seems to want to steal the death star plans just because the movie is going through the motions. She later decides to sit down and die on the beach of Scarif with little decision about it (its almost as if she is aware her character is no longer needed and just gives up). The decision is made to look easy, when in reality it wouldn't be. Instead it would have been a bit better for them to use Galen's death more appropriately. For instance:


  • Jyn is orphaned and longs to see her father again.
  • She finds out the empire has been forcing him to work on the death star.
  • When they finally reconnect, he is killed, and Jyn makes it her purpose to enact her fathers plans. She realises the stakes and how they must get those plans to secure a future for the galaxy, no matter the cost.
  • She convinces her group of friends to come with her because of the above.
  • They fight their way through Scarif much the same, however more time is spent to give the characters deaths more weight, and just before Jyn gets to uploading the plans, they should have had her see the death star looming on the horizon, she has the choice to either try and leave now to survive, or to push on and get the plans uploaded, she obviously makes the decision to sacrifice herself, remembering what is at stake, and also motivated by her fathers death. When the plans are uploaded, she rests on the beach clutching her cyber crystal necklace, content that she will soon die, knowing she has given others a chance to survive.
Also, whilst I loved the Leia scene, I really didn't like how the movie ends on it. They go from all the main characters dying, to Vader slaughtering people (awesome as it was), to a fan service cameo. There is no recognition of the main characters, or their decisions. They should have inserted a scene just after Jyn's death, where the rebel command centre are in a bit of a bittersweet celebration where the Rogue One crew are recognised for their sacrifice. Then put the Vader and Leia scenes afterwards.
 
They should have inserted a scene just after Jyn's death, where the rebel command centre are in a bit of a bittersweet celebration where the Rogue One crew are recognised for their sacrifice. Then put the Vader and Leia scenes afterwards.

Like when Leia claimed that the USB-Stick with the data of the team means that there is finally hope?
 
I've thinking about that final scene with Jyn and Cassian because man...what a massive blunder. That scene was the perfect setup to make us care about their sacrifice.

Would've been better if they made Jyn saying her regrets like dooming everyone going on this mission, while Cassian calming her.
 
Also, whilst I loved the Leia scene, I really didn't like how the movie ends on it. They go from all the main characters dying, to Vader slaughtering people (awesome as it was), to a fan service cameo. There is no recognition of the main characters, or their decisions. They should have inserted a scene just after Jyn's death, where the rebel command centre are in a bit of a bittersweet celebration where the Rogue One crew are recognised for their sacrifice. Then put the Vader and Leia scenes afterwards.
The moment after the Death Star has fired onto the planet where the Rebel Admiral says "May the Force be with you, Rogue One," is that moment of acknowledgement. It's purposefully quiet and solemn for that reason. Whereas Leia being handed the plans is the actual moment of victory.
 
I've thinking about that final scene with Jyn and Cassian because man...what a massive blunder. That scene was the perfect setup to make us care about their sacrifice.

Would've been better if they made Jyn saying her regrets like dooming everyone going on this mission, while Cassian calming her.

What a terrible idea, every person on that mission knew it was a one-way trip and went with her willingly.
 
I've thinking about that final scene with Jyn and Cassian because man...what a massive blunder. That scene was the perfect setup to make us care about their sacrifice.

Would've been better if they made Jyn saying her regrets like dooming everyone going on this mission, while Cassian calming her.

Tell that to Zod's snapped neck.
 
I've thinking about that final scene with Jyn and Cassian because man...what a massive blunder. That scene was the perfect setup to make us care about their sacrifice.

Would've been better if they made Jyn saying her regrets like dooming everyone going on this mission, while Cassian calming her.
That would be terrible... Jyn and everyone else volunteering to go on that mission knew full-well that it could be a one-way trip. She achieved what her father set out to do - she has no reason to regret this. She's just thankful she had those people to back her up.
 
I hate how every movie/tv series discussion eventually devolves into trying to poke holes into the plot like you didn't just watch a fucking movie about a moon sized weapon of mass destruction.

Agreed, and this is why the cantina jerks popping up here didn't bother me at all. Yes, it's a bit silly and clearly there for the fans, but is that a bad thing? The scene was a surprise to me because I really didn't expect it and it was funny.

Terry Pratchett had this universal force called 'Narativium' in his books - basically explaining that all the weird coincidences you get in stories like this just to give people an arc in their lives or to make people survive against incredible odds is just a law of nature. Basically, the laws of storytelling and the whims of the writer were a force similar to gravity. Just a normal part in his (mostly comedic, of course) world.

The same goes for movies like Indiana Jones, Back to the Future or Star Wars for me. It's not meant to be realistic, and these incredible coincidences are part of their style. The fact that it's a ludicrous coincidence that those cantina jerks would pop up there isn't a cheat on the part of the writers and they're not trying to trick anyone - that's the entire joke. It sometimes feels to me that people in general used to get that just fine when movies like Indiana Jones were still coming out, but the internet has made a lot more people more nitpicky, it seems. They're just goofy winks at the audience in a genre that's done it since the beginning.

Of course, you can overdo it. Revealing that Darth Vader made C3P0 or that Yoda and Chewbacca were old buddies is going to far - because then you're just connecting some of the biggest player in the series, and mostly because those scenes weren't clever, sweet or funny at all. It was just too much for those movies. The cantina jerks (I really don't know their names, forgive me) were fine - it's unexpected, funny, it makes you imagine the shitty week they are having and it's over within 10 seconds.

It's also surrounded by a better overall movie, of course. That helps.

But yeah, in the end you can nitpick any big action adventure movie like this to death, especially when it's sci-fantasy. If I'm happy and excited when I walk out of the theatre, that's all that matters. It sometimes feels to me like people watch these movies while mainly thinking about what points they can complain about when they get online afterwards. If you're not willing to suspend your disbelief for a little bit and accept it for what it is, any of these movies fall apart very easily. I dread to think what Gaf would think if Spielberg would have waited to make the first Indiana Jones movie until this year. People would tear it apart for its sillyness.
 
Loved the film. Loved the filler. I also have no issues with the CG Tarkin and Leia, there was no other way to doit but at least it was decent.
 
I hate how every movie/tv series discussion eventually devolves into trying to poke holes into the plot like you didn't just watch a fucking movie about a moon sized weapon of mass destruction.

I know what you mean but on the flip side it's just a bit of fun and by that I mean it's fun talking about plot holes/loose ends/inconsistencies etc.
 
I hate how every movie/tv series discussion eventually devolves into trying to poke holes into the plot like you didn't just watch a fucking movie about a moon sized weapon of mass destruction.

Except the whole movie and especially the last 10 minutes or so's purpose is to retcon/explain exactly that one thing...leading straight to the beginning of episode 4.

So it's supposed to make sense instead of not make sense. It's not "poking holes" when it's a big obvious question of "why did she do that".
 
Except the whole movie and especially the last 10 minutes or so's purpose is to retcon/explain exactly that one thing...leading straight to the beginning of episode 4.

So it's supposed to make sense instead of not make sense.

Luckily it does make sense then.
 
Like when Leia claimed that the USB-Stick with the data of the team means that there is finally hope?

The whole cast essentially get killed, but oh heres CGI Leia saying "Hope". I did like the scene, but because it is on its own and there isn't any other celebratory scene, its almost like it sweeping the other characters under the rug.

The rebels have been living under the thumb of the empire, their lives are ruined, and the plans give them their their first real chance of turning things around, it would mean the world to them. So the rebels would have been ecstatic, crying with joy and relief etc. It would have given the characters deaths more value.
 
I know what you mean but on the flip side it's just a bit of fun and by that I mean it's fun talking about plot holes/loose ends/inconsistencies etc.

I never really find this fun because you can poke holes into literally every single story ever told.
 
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