Support NeoGAF

[FarFromAnyGame]

As someone who has grown up with Nintendo games, I feel I need to spend more time with a different hobby when I hear of Nintendo going for much less than hardcore consoles and games. I just want the days of SNES and N64 when Nintendo gave us among cutting edge games.

I will still play games but it's just so disappointing not having the best devs working for the hardcore gamers. Such a waste of talent.

That's what you get for sticking to a single company output.
Nintendo hasn't grown up with us like Sony did.
They still make mostly if not only kids and family friendly games which is good for them but we're not their target audience anymore.

I've lost interest in Nintendo since they released the Wii and went "Less power, more gimmicks"
They ruined everything. Even Mario Galaxy, it's never going to be a true classic that I will go back to. Because of the gimmicky and unnecessary motion controls.

Get a PC and PS4 and you'll have the best gaming experiences with the best devs working for the hardcore gamers.

 

[Platy]

The Snes was more powerful than the Genesis overall.

But ridiculously underpowered compared to neo geo

 

[BlackJace]

The potential for a game like Shin Megami Tensei 5 to look as good as Persona 5 in a portable form factor is realistic...


This is a great world.

I heard that!

 

[Interficium]

I guess what I want to see is Nintendo/2nd party devs trying to make AAA games on powerful consoles

There are no powerful consoles.

Enough with the muh-muh-muh-my hardcores blubbering.

 

[AEdouard]

If you're basing all that on that spec chart image that occasionally pops up, there's a lot of red herrings in there and you can't really take the numbers at face value. I can't speak for how each systems handles and displays individual sprites, but some experienced programmer probably can. Even with twice the memory for audio, it ends up being exponentially more bottlenecked by it since PCM is a glutton for RAM, and in addition to that, not being able to refresh the audio RAM on the fly introduced other issues limiting developer vision and creativity in ways you didn't have to deal with on the Genesis.

There's lots of interviews with coders and even artists (Shiny/Virgin being the first thing that comes to mind) who say that the extra raw power just allowed them for more general creative freedom and flexibility on the Genesis, both in terms of game concepts and visuals. Sure, having more colors and a couple of hardware effects like transparency and scaling is very nice, but it's not really the end-all-be-all of graphics like some make it out to be.

Yeah. I was basing this on that chart. So maybe not the bestvsource. Interesting stuff from your post!

 

[AEdouard]

There are no powerful consoles.

Enough with the muh-muh-muh-my hardcores blubbering.

The original xbox, ps3 and xbox 360 were powerful gaming machines when they came out.

 

[Fitts]

I don't care how powerful the hardware is, but it does directly correlate to a lack of third party software support and I do have a problem with that. I owned a Wii U and it spent most of its time collecting dust. When the occasional exclusive released it was great, but having it sit there most of the time made me perceive it as a poor value. Worse yet, buying the pro controller was necessity for me as playing with the tablet... well, it sucked. So I sold it off while it was still worth something, haven't regretted it a bit, and feel great with my decision.

I own a gaming PC (connected to my TV) and I'm currently building another to serve as an emulator box for an arcade cabinet. I do own a PS4, but like the Wii U that too is on thin ice as I use it as a blu ray player more often than anything else at this point. It has some great exclusives like the Wii U, but its much more robust third party support helps increase my overall satisfaction with it. PC is far and away my platform of choice but having the option of picking up a game that goes cheaper on PS4 can be nice. Still, locking multiplayer behind a paywall (while including a weak "incentive" in the form of PS+ titles that often border on insulting) and going the incremental upgrade route (modular would've been fine) has all but ensured that I'm done with consoles after this gen. A must have exclusive (like a Miyazaki title) could at least temporarily get my business, but I don't see another way for Sony to retain my business.

But I digress. Nintendo doesn't exactly offer much in the way of surprises with their exclusives and I'm totally ok with leaving their games behind if I have to. If they go third party they'll end up getting a ton of money from me, but I don't see myself ever paying a dime toward their hardware again.

Relevant: I have no use nor desire for handhelds/portables and don't play games on my phone.

 

[eXistor]

I can't say I share that feeling op. Nintendo as a dev has almost never been better and underpowered tech does not make games any less good. I think Nintendo's low point as a developer was during the N64 and Wii. They still made great games, but with 3DS and WiiU they've pretty consistently hit it out of the park. These last 2 years weren't great, but I fully attribute that due to the...ahem...switch to the Switch, I'm sure they've been cooking up great software for that system so I'm not worried.

 

[Dark Ninja]

No unless its your main console. But at this point you have to have multiple consoles or PC. Its just the best way to experience all the games without missing out on any. Nintendo are great side consoles.

 

[fireflame]

Let us try to think about examples where power can affect/limit gameplay.

For example in a musou, if the game gives you the possibility to have bodyguards, the power of the machine may limit the number of allies you can have on screen, as well as the number of enemies on screen. In some strategy games, power limit may lead developers to limit the amount of units and buildings you can have(when it is not for gameplay reasons). In command and conquer i rmember the framerate dropped below 10 fps on my PlayStation if i produced too many units, and i suspect this was because of technical limitations.

To take a Nintendo example, lets us remember Ice Climbers on Smash bros.

 

[Skux]

The best devs are working for hardcore gamers already.

If power is what you value, switch over to PC or PS4. There's no need to be stuck to one company and be continually disappointed in their hardware offerings.

 

[Alex]

Don't really care about the power after a certain minimum. Not for consoles, anyway

I just want them to price it well for a change. 199 would be fine, especially when PS4 bundles are going for 229-249 commonly.

 

[GAMETA]

KIMISHIMA, DROP THE BOMB!

 

[kagamin]

Hardcore games? Like niche stuff? There's plenty of that on 3DS and there'll be plenty of it on Switch, just because my PS4 is less powerful than my PC doesn't make me any less interested in playing games on it.

 

[AstroNut325]

Someone please explain this mindset to me:

"I have a PC, I don't care!"

WTF... So you hold majority of the gaming industry to a much higher standard than Nintendo games? Like, you need the latest graphical hardware and software for your PC, but when it comes to Nintendo, you're perfectly ok with Wii U levels of visual/audio fidelity?

If I had the choice between Mario 3D in 720p with no AA, and Mario in 1080p with 2xMSAA, I would always pick the latter. Why isn't Nintendo held to the same standard as the rest of the industry?

 

[Kthulhu]

The original xbox, ps3 and xbox 360 were powerful gaming machines when they came out.

The PS4 and XB1 aren't.

If you really want graphics, high frame rates, 4K, etc. Buy a PC. Consoles will never beat the speed of PC hardware evolution.

 

[RK9039]

No I have a PC for that. I just want great games from Nintendo and from Sony.

I've been hooked on Bloodborne for the past few days and earlier today I received my copy of Wind Waker HD. Plus Akuma comes out tomorrow. It's all good.

 

[Kthulhu]

Someone please explain this mindset to me:

"I have a PC, I don't care!"

WTF... So you hold majority of the gaming industry to a much higher standard than Nintendo games? Like, you need the latest graphical hardware and software for your PC, but when it comes to Nintendo, you're perfectly ok with Wii U levels of visual/audio fidelity?

If I had the choice between Mario 3D in 720p with no AA, and Mario in 1080p with 2xMSAA, I would always pick the latter. Why isn't Nintendo held to the same standard as the rest of the industry?

Because Nintendo is the exception. They dominate the handheld space and have actually tried to innovate instead of making shitty gaming PCs for the past two generations.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Someone please explain this mindset to me:

"I have a PC, I don't care!"

WTF... So you hold majority of the gaming industry to a much higher standard than Nintendo games? Like, you need the latest graphical hardware and software for your PC, but when it comes to Nintendo, you're perfectly ok with Wii U levels of visual/audio fidelity?

If I had the choice between Mario 3D in 720p with no AA, and Mario in 1080p with 2xMSAA, I would always pick the latter. Why isn't Nintendo held to the same standard as the rest of the industry?

...what? This post makes 0 sense. I have a PC so I can play the latests games, that run at new and better hardware. I don't NEED them to be like this though nor do I fully expect. At the end of the day I just want to play games.

People are not holding anything to any standard. The only standard that I hold any game to is if they have good art direction. Nintendo games usually do so I'm fine with that.

The thing is that I'm genuinely excited by Nintendo ideas. I loved my Gamecube, but it was just a powerful machine without ports. Even if the Switch is just Wii U on the go that would have been huge for me already

 

[Eumi]

No because my enjoyment of my hobby isn't dependant on one company.

 

[Dark_3nergy]

How is the Switch underpowered, its a big jump from the 3ds!

That is what I am most excited about honestly. I personally loved the 3DS/DS hand held family, despite not playing on it as much as other Gaffers here.

 

[Platy]

Let us try to think about examples where power can affect/limit gameplay.

For example in a musou, if the game gives you the possibility to have bodyguards, the power of the machine may limit the number of allies you can have on screen, as well as the number of enemies on screen. In some strategy games, power limit may lead developers to limit the amount of units and buildings you can have(when it is not for gameplay reasons). In command and conquer i rmember the framerate dropped below 10 fps on my PlayStation if i produced too many units, and i suspect this was because of technical limitations.

To take a Nintendo example, lets us remember Ice Climbers on Smash bros.

Everything you said you have all to blame the need for prettier graphics.

Ice Climbers could have worked if smash 4 3ds didn't had to look better than brawl.

If you make lower poly models you can make as many soldiers you want.

 

[jstripes]

Yeah I do have a gaming PC. Great value for money.

I guess what I want to see is Nintendo/2nd party devs trying to make AAA games on powerful consoles. It is a waste that a studio like Retro doesn't get that opportunity. Look that what they achieved with Metroid Prime or how Rare made Goldeneye or how Nintendo was leading he way with Mario 64 and Star Fox. Now I feel like Nintendo neglects it's core gamers and tries to attract families/kids too much. Even SM3DW was simplified to make it easier for their target audience.

Congrats: You just found Nintendo's niche. The one that it cozily occupies, and which keeps it alive!

Also, guess what: You've grown up. Nintendo doesn't have to grow up with you. You're not going to complain if Nickelodeon doesn't offer cutting edge drama like Game of Thrones, are you?

 

[Forsaken82]

As someone who has grown up with Nintendo games, I feel I need to spend more time with a different hobby when I hear of Nintendo going for much less than hardcore consoles and games. I just want the days of SNES and N64 when Nintendo gave us among cutting edge games.

I will still play games but it's just so disappointing not having the best devs working for the hardcore gamers. Such a waste of talent.

So in your opinion, the only thing that remotely matters about games is how it looks?

 

[Khrno]

Right now, not all. When the Wii was released yes, but not in video games in general just in Nintendo's console games.

The reason was that by this point I had already gotten a HDTV for PS3 and X360, so although I did get a Wii, it was just for a few months since I just couldn't stand the sight of SD content on a HDTV and that's not just for games but also for DVDs, and TV channels.
For the record I have no issue at all with SD content displayed on a CRT, my issue is SD content displayed on a HDTV.

So I actually missed on many great Nintendo games from the Wii because of this, and also the motion controls didn't help at all to want me get into them past how they looked on my HDTV.

As far as the Wii U and Switch go, I have no issues at all with them not being at standard PS4 levels, my only worry is that without matching the power level, the western third parties will not want to port their games to the Switch, and thus this will make the console for Nintendo fans only and not for the casual shooter and sports crowd on the other consoles.

 

[spectator]

Nintendo are great side consoles.

IMO, the only great "side" console is no "side" console. If Nintendo's games were available on other capable systems, we wouldn't need to amortize a $300 redundant hardware expense across our software purchases.

 

[CaviarMeths]

Not really. My interests have mostly migrated to lighter experiences and handheld games, so Nintendo hasn't trespassed upon me yet in that regard. As long as I'm getting something that feels like a 3DS/Vita successor, or a handheld version of a Wii U, I'll probably be happy with it.

My only worry is their very limited ability to attract western 3rd parties. I'm not so much into those games, and the ones I do like I just buy on PS4 anyway, but it definitely hurts Nintendo's marketability, which IMO is bad for all types of gamers.

 

[fluffydelusions]

No I have a PC for that. I just want great games from Nintendo and from Sony.

Exactly this

 

[Exile20]

Well, I haven't cared much about Nintendo since the Gamecube, but the world of video gaming is way, way bigger than them, so no loss.

This can be applied to any of the big three. Atari and Sega went down, gaming still continued.

If Sony/MS is not in gaming anymore gaming will still be a thing..

 

[SSM25]

I love videogames and Sony and MS are home to a big variety of them with good visual tech

Nintendo is a non factor as there are options

Their console is severely underpowered yet again, but if Mario and Zelda are great, I'm there

 

[TunaLover]

Yeah, but at the same time I'm used to this. Is just every gen I expect it to be different but I'm just fooling myself, I don't blame Nintendo as they go for a different demography =/

 

[Roni]

As someone who has grown up with Nintendo games, I feel I need to spend more time with a different hobby when I hear of Nintendo going for much less than hardcore consoles and games. I just want the days of SNES and N64 when Nintendo gave us among cutting edge games.

I will still play games but it's just so disappointing not having the best devs working for the hardcore gamers. Such a waste of talent.

Must be tough living in disappointment for almost a decade.

 

[Logash]

Not at all. I have a PS4 Pro and I just got a really great deal ($50) on an Xbox One. I have no need what so ever for a high end system. What I do need however is Zelda Breath of the Wild. When games like Stardew Valley are on the top of my must play list I don't really think graphics matter much at all anymore. Better than Wii U is good enough for me.

 

[Dark Ninja]

IMO, the only great "side" console is no "side" console. If Nintendo's games were available on other capable systems, we wouldn't need to amortize a $300 redundant hardware expense across our software purchases.

But they aren't 3rd party. Nintendo offer enough exclusive GREAT content for me to justify $300 and to purchase a software library for it. They are actually saving me money now on the Switch I don't have to purchase a separate thing to play their handheld offerings. Anything else I want to play I do on PC(I can play Microsoft games on this too) or PS4. This has been the case since the Wii.

 

[shinobi602]

Nintendo games are still incredible on whatever system they launch on so no, not really.

 

[jnWake]

I don't make a big deal about graphics as long as the game doesn't look horrible. Most of my playtime is on 3DS and I have a Wii U and a pretty decent PC.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

No.
I'm used to it and really i like this way, Nintendo must provide me a cheap console to let me and my sons play their games without ruling their console out of question due to pricing.

I want a N console for their games only, my expensive AAA needs are already over served.

 

[CrazyHorse]

That's what you get for sticking to a single company output.

It's a fair point. I should try more games and find franchises that suit me. If I haven't found interest in some famous games, it doesn't mean I should quit.

 

[spectator]

But they aren't 3rd party.

That's my point/that's the problem, IMO. The Switch does nothing for me as a hardware platform that my PS4 doesn't do except charge me a $300 premium to play Nintendo titles.

 

[Mega]

As someone who has grown up with Nintendo games, I feel I need to spend more time with a different hobby when I hear of Nintendo going for much less than hardcore consoles and games. I just want the days of SNES and N64 when Nintendo gave us among cutting edge games.

I will still play games but it's just so disappointing not having the best devs working for the hardcore gamers. Such a waste of talent.

I love the N64 but the decision to go with cartridge severely handicapped the console more than anything else they have ever done since.

I'm not a fan of the majority of modern AAA games so this continued discrepancy doesn't bother me. My biggest issue was the 3DS' grossly unsuitable 240p res and low-quality screens obfuscating the visuals of its 3D games. That has been addressed with the 720p screen and baselines specs that are at least better than Wii U's. I'm fine with a more powerful portable Wii U than can run games like BotW, new AAA Mario, Bayonetta and Mario Kart.

I'm basically not interested in spec wars and prefer more modest hardware if it means decent battery life. My favorite games lie in the past on vastly weaker machines. I'm not looking forward to Nintendo trying to match Uncharted, Tomb Raider, Forza or the next big FPS. I want interesting games like W101, Muramasa, 2D Castlevania and 2D Metroid, a new game in the style of Wind Waker, etc. And if the hardware is suitably powerful enough to run 3D Mario as it should look (refined and improved 3D World and Galaxy in HD and 60fps for example), then I'm happy.

In short, it's not a big deal to me and I don't care it's not a portable XB1/PS4.

 

[VICI0US]

Not at all. I don't expect nintendo (or any console maker) to be able to match the power of my gaming PC. Multiplatform games will always look and run best there, and that's where I'm going to play them.

As long as the hardware is strong enough for them to make compelling first/second party exclusives they're golden in my book.

 

[brinstar]

The potential for a game like Shin Megami Tensei 5 to look as good as Persona 5 in a portable form factor is realistic...


This is a great world.

I like the way you think

 

[Dark Ninja]

That's my point/that's the problem, IMO. The Switch does nothing for me as a hardware platform that my PS4 doesn't do except charge me a $300 premium to play Nintendo titles.

Well thats more your problem. Nintendo still see's that there is financial value in being a "console" and software maker. I still see value in owning a Nintendo console so I pay the "premium". Just pray they fail or play their mobile games.

 

[CrazyHorse]

You're not going to complain if Nickelodeon doesn't offer cutting edge drama like Game of Thrones, are you?

I would if Nickelodeon used to in the past and had the best TV show creators.

I mean Nintendo did make games targeted towards older people in the past. Even their cartoony ones had more challenge in the past.

How would it be if Leonardo di Vinci painted cartoons? Waste of talent.

Also I don't like how some other companies make things 'mature'. I get the impression that Nintendo would make mature games without having to wash them in blood and objectifying women and cursing at every opportunity. I mean Portal 2 is a mature game without being 'mature'.

 

[Azuran]

I would if Nickelodeon used to in the past and had the best TV show creators.

I mean Nintendo did make games targeted towards older people in the past. Even their cartoony ones had more challenge in the past.

How would it be if Leonardo di Vinci painted cartoons? Waste of talent.

Also I don't like how some other companies make things 'mature'. I get the impression that Nintendo would make mature games without having to wash them in blood and objectifying women and cursing at every opportunity. I mean Portal 2 is a mature game without being 'mature'.

Huh?

They still produce the exact same type of games they did in the past. I'll even argue they were worse back then considering you would have never seen stuff like Wonderful 101 or Devil's Third from them. If anything they have diversify even more considering they also release niche JRPGs like Xenoblade.

There's no way you can believe A Link to the Past was more "mature" than Skyward Sword.

 

[Barry Burton]

No, not at all. Nintendo offers something great and unique regardless of how powerful their hardware is, which is more than sufficient for the types of games they make. I've got a PS4 and XBO for everything else that Nintendo doesn't offer.

Hell, the past two years have been awesome as far as games go, and I've only played a couple Nintendo games during that stretch. I'm just very excited about a new Nintendo platform that has all of their first-party games under one roof. So if anything, my interest level will only go up as Nintendo gets back into a groove.

It'd be great if the Switch was more powerful, but going in I set my expectations at "closer to Wii U than PS4" anyways. I'm fine with the ballpark that the Switch seems to be in.

 

[jstripes]

I would if Nickelodeon used to in the past and had the best TV show creators.

I mean Nintendo did make games targeted towards older people in the past. Even their cartoony ones had more challenge in the past.

How would it be if Leonardo di Vinci painted cartoons? Waste of talent.

Also I don't like how some other companies make things 'mature'. I get the impression that Nintendo would make mature games without having to wash them in blood and objectifying women and cursing at every opportunity. I mean Portal 2 is a mature game without being 'mature'.

Nintendo's first party games have skewed young as far back as I can remember. Of course, the whimsical and cartoony aesthetic we consider "young" now was more prevalent back then, before games "grew up".

Games in the past were more challenging because you needed the bang for your buck. A $70 game in the NES era was the equivalent of $150 today, and you were damn lucky if you got more than a few a year. Gamers today go through games like candy, and have shorter attention spans.

 

[Peltz]

I would if Nickelodeon used to in the past and had the best TV show creators.

I mean Nintendo did make games targeted towards older people in the past. Even their cartoony ones had more challenge in the past.

How would it be if Leonardo di Vinci painted cartoons? Waste of talent.

Also I don't like how some other companies make things 'mature'. I get the impression that Nintendo would make mature games without having to wash them in blood and objectifying women and cursing at every opportunity. I mean Portal 2 is a mature game without being 'mature'.

Portal 2 feels like a Nintendo game... so I'm not really sure what you're saying. What do you consider "mature"?

 

[atr0cious]

Some people would like to see what Nintendo can do on a system that is up there for a change. In a world of frame rates and resolutions, I'm not sure why that's a crazy thought to understand.

Of the big three, Nintendo is the developer house with the most consistent frame rates, so unless you're talking about PC, which still doesn't guarantee stable anything, Nintendo is fine doing what they want power wise.

 

[Always-honest]

Lol... "hardcore games"....
Nintendo has some of the best games ever made.
Only insecure teenagers would use the term hardcore for completely mainstream games on more powerful hardware. There are games. Play the ones you like.


"Yeah buh, buh, the cartooony..."