Support NeoGAF

[Calamari41]

The fact that the Star Destroyers looked like fake plastic models was the best part of the film.

(This isn't a knock on the movie, I just really loved those Star Destroyers)

 

[Rydeen]

I didn't know Kurtwood Smith was in this movie

LOL

Spoiler

It's really Warwick "Wicket The Ewok" Davis!

The creature design in this was great, more in-tune with the creature designs of the Original Trilogy than The Force Awakens Maz's bar scene. Saw's main henchman looks like an unused design from Return of the Jedi.

 

[RoKKeR]

Just got out of my second showing in IMAX...This movie is so damn good.

 

[Jack Scofield]

I remember having an "oh shit" moment when the chicken walker appeared in Jedha. Really cool to see that vehicle with modern CG.

 

[Mifune]

You want your mind blown, you should listen to the most recent episode of Star Wars Oxygen and find out just how deep the roots of Jyn's theme go...

Dude. I came in here to evangelize this podcast episode. Thanks for beating me to the punch.

I already liked the score quite a bit but now I have to do a deep dive. I grew up on the OT soundtracks and it's so much fun to excavate the pieces that Giacchino buried in Rogue One. My favorite is the similar phrasing and instrumentation for the "Help me, Obi Wan Kenobi" scene in ANH and the Mads message scene in Rogue.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Dude. I came in here to evangelize this podcast episode. Thanks for beating me to the punch.

I already liked the score quite a bit but now I have to do a deep dive. I grew up on the OT soundtracks and it's so much fun to excavate the pieces that Giacchino buried in Rogue One. My favorite is the similar phrasing and instrumentation for the "Help me, Obi Wan Kenobi" scene in ANH and the Mads message scene in Rogue.

Yup. Dude basically reverse engineered a "death star plans" motif out of a few phrases in Star Wars - and then extrapolated that back out into the Erso's theme.

That episode was even better because McInerney's oafish ass shut the fuck up for most of it, too.

 

[Burt]

I'm about 3/4s through Return of the Jedi, and I just have to apologize for putting it above TFA earlier in this thread.

Han Solo snuck into an Imperial installment by tapping an unarmed stormtrooper on his far shoulder and running around a corner.

I mean, there's like 40 things I could talk about beyond that, but like, the movie is pretty absurd. It isn't garbage, but it's absurd. And everyone's acting is still like 90% there at best. High highs and low lows.

I thought ANH had aged poorly, but I watched the Despecialized edition the other day and it was much better than I expected. ROTJ is solidifying itself as an easy call for third place in the OT.

And that additional George Lucas 1990s CGI addition stuff...?

Spoiler

jesus

Spoiler

christ

Spoiler

motherfucker

Spoiler

are you serious

 

[Mifune]

That episode was even better because McInerney's oafish ass shut the fuck up for most of it, too.

Funny you mention that. This is my first episode and I actually said "shut up" out loud when he started rambling about TV opening credits.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

"HEYYY"
--the dumbest Scout Trooper in the Empire

Funny you mention that. This is my first episode and I actually said "shut up" out loud when he started rambling about TV opening credits.

The early episodes are great because Collins is in control, and there's not much room for McInerney's idiocy to take up space and stretch out. As the show gets more and more popular McInerney starts butting in more and more to establish his presence. Right around the prequel scores he starts to become completely fucking insufferable.

The best part is when he starts obviously lying about things in response to real "gimme" questions by Collins.

There's an episode where Collins & Bobby Lopez (the guy who did Frozen) basically just deep dive for 90 straight minutes, and it's like - why can't it just be this? Why is McInerney even THERE?

 

[Mifune]

"HEYYY"
The early episodes are great because Collins is in control, and there's not much room for McInerney's idiocy to take up space and stretch out. As the show gets more and more popular McInerney starts butting in more and more to establish his presence. Right around the prequel scores he starts to become completely fucking insufferable.

The best part is when he starts obviously lying about things in response to real "gimme" questions by Collins.

There's an episode where Collins & Bobby Lopez (the guy who did Frozen) basically just deep dive for 90 straight minutes, and it's like - why can't it just be this? Why is McInerney even THERE?

I totally have to listen to the early episodes, then. Collins knows his stuff to a scary degree.

Are they any good general film music podcasts out there? Like anything with this level of detail and knowledge?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

One of my favorites is actually made right here in Portland. It's called "The Score," hosted by a guy named Edmund Stone, who has one of the best radio voices I've ever heard. It doesn't go as in depth as Collins does, but he gets interviews with a lot of composers pretty frequently, he tells interesting stories, and there's just a general enthusiasm for the music that's really infectious. And since it's for public radio first (podcast second) he gets to put whole cues in there, so not only is it a fun show for the score knowledge and the interviews, but each episode is basically a film score mixtape.

And yeah, if I thought it was a possibility that Collins would ever take his show away from Rebel Force Radio, I'd volunteer to record/produce/edit that show in a fucking heartbeat.

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

I do think the Force Theme has (unfortunately) become the de-facto "Star Wars" theme, to the point where I bet if you asked someone to hum "Star Wars" they wouldn't do the main title, they'd do "Force Theme/Ben's Theme." Some people might not even realize they're two different pieces of music at this point.

I think most people would hum the seven notes of the title over the seven notes of the force theme, but maybe they would confuse it with the B section of the main crawl. I think it's use in The Throne Room does imply that its connotations weren't just confined to Ben. Aspirational music then applied more strictly to the force? Maybe.

 

[Mifune]

One of my favorites is actually made right here in Portland. It's called "The Score," hosted by a guy named Edmund Stone, who has one of the best radio voices I've ever heard. It doesn't go as in depth as Collins does, but he gets interviews with a lot of composers pretty frequently, he tells interesting stories, and there's just a general enthusiasm for the music that's really infectious. And since it's for public radio first (podcast second) he gets to put whole cues in there, so not only is it a fun show for the score knowledge and the interviews, but each episode is basically a film score mixtape.

And yeah, if I thought it was a possibility that Collins would ever take his show away from Rebel Force Radio, I'd volunteer to record/produce/edit that show in a fucking heartbeat.

That's great. Thanks! As it turns out, I have listened to a Patrick Doyle interview and Horner tribute on The Score. It's good stuff that I forgot about.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I think most people would hum the seven notes of the title over the seven notes of the force theme, but maybe they would confuse it with the B section of the main crawl. I think it's use in The Throne Room does imply that its connotations weren't just confined to Ben. Aspirational music then applied more strictly to the force? Maybe.

Yeah, it stopped being just Ben's theme in Empire. Once Lucas suggested Williams use it for Binary Sunset, it became more all-purpose "Force Theme" than it was just Ben's Theme, and over time, it's basically supplanted both Luke's Theme and the Rebel Fanfare as the go-to "hero music," whether or not the Force is present at all.

 

[Burt]

"HEYYY"
--the dumbest Scout Trooper in the Empire

I feel like he might've been the smartest of the bunch.

But, on the plus side of ruining my imaginary iconic view of Return of the Jedi, I'm watching it on demand via TNT, and somehow the last commercial break got cut and the audio and video got desynced with the video about 30 seconds ahead of the audio, and it's led to some interesting results. Specifically, hearing Vader's labored breathing over Lando racing to the core, and then Vader's death speech over the actual attack on the core.

It's actually kind of inspired and would've added some sense of dread, had I not known that it was Comcast/TNT fucking up and it wasn't like Vader's last speech to his son as the Death Star 2.0 exploded and killed them both.

 

[Ishida]

That's exactly where it is.

I do think the Force Theme has (unfortunately) become the de-facto "Star Wars" theme, to the point where I bet if you asked someone to hum "Star Wars" they wouldn't do the main title, they'd do "Force Theme/Ben's Theme." Some people might not even realize they're two different pieces of music at this point.

When I was a kid, before knowing the real name(s) of that particular tune, I began calling it "The Jedi March" in my head.

I don't know why. I guess to me it was the antithesis of the Imperial March, which was the tune of the evil guys.

While I now know it as the Force Theme or the Binary Sunset version, sometimes it still brings back memories of the name I gave it as a kid. The Jedi March.

 

[OricWindstar]

Yeah, it stopped being just Ben's theme in Empire. Once Lucas suggested Williams use it for Binary Sunset, it became more all-purpose "Force Theme" than it was just Ben's Theme, and over time, it's basically supplanted both Luke's Theme and the Rebel Fanfare as the go-to "hero music," whether or not the Force is present at all.

This has become a bit of a pet-peeve of mine, even though it's probably my favorite theme in Star Wars. I'm curious what they're going to do for Luke in VIII, because I could unfortunately see them just tying him to that theme and calling it a day.

 

[Toxi]

Rewatching A New Hope, Leia's theme deserves more love.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yeah, Leia's theme basically got turned into the Empire love theme (Han & the Princess) and the Jedi platonic love theme (Luke & Leia) and didn't really get much shine on its own past Star Wars - although when Williams thought Episode III was going to be the swan song, he made sure to close out the film with it. It even plays in the closing credits. Granted, he's basically just rehashing the original closing credits to Star Wars (and to an even greater extent on the soundtrack) but he gives it a lot of time, and I loved hearing it.

Still one of the most beautiful pieces he ever wrote. Which is saying something.

 

[wmlk]

Honestly, it was the best Star Wars movie and I've seen all of them. It's amazing how all of the characters had weight when they introduced so many. The bits of fanservice were very short but were demonstrated in a way that captured their essence. You could finally feel the destructive power of the Death Star, the terror brought by Darth Vader, the size of the Empire's army, etc.

I really liked Jyn's character even if there were less moments for her than there were for Rey. It just felt like the whole thing had stakes even if it was a prequel, and a lot of it is because of her character.

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

Leia's theme sidelined after IV... Anakin's theme sidelined after I... Ring theory confirmed!

 

[Burt]

Rewatching A New Hope, Leia's theme deserves more love.

Beyond that, I think that she needs more widespread acceptance as the best actor/actress in that movie. And I'm not just saying that because of current events, because Carrie Fisher was a notorious straight talker and puckering up in the wake of her death would be an absolute disservice. In ANH, Hamil was a rookie, Guinness was kind of an exposition bot, Ford was still feeling his role out (warning, you can't unhear the Harrison Ford newsie voice), and... I dunno, was there anyone else?

Granted, much of her role was finding different words calling the rest of the cast incompetent pussies, and anger and indignation are an easier play than actual emotional depth or rogue-ish charisma, but with or without qualifiers, she was the best in that movie.

Spoiler

Chewbacca was actually the best, but that's only because he was literally a two-legged chocolate lab.

 

[Toxi]

Beyond that, I think that she needs more widespread acceptance as the best actor/actress in that movie. And I'm not just saying that because of current events, because Carrie Fisher was a notorious straight talker and puckering up in the wake of her death would be an absolute disservice. In ANH, Hamil was a rookie, Guinness was kind of an exposition bot, Ford was still feeling his role out (warning, you can't unhear the Harrison Ford newsie voice), and... I dunno, was there anyone else?

Granted, much of her role was finding different words calling the rest of the cast incompetent pussies, and anger and indignation are an easier play than actual emotional depth or rogue-ish charisma, but with or without qualifiers, she was the best in that movie.

Spoiler

Chewbacca was actually the best, but that's only because he was literally a two-legged chocolate lab.

On the other hand, that English accent is just... Why.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Beyond that, I think that she needs more widespread acceptance as the best actor/actress in that movie. And I'm not just saying that because of current events, because Carrie Fisher was a notorious straight talker and puckering up in the wake of her death would be an absolute disservice. In ANH, Hamil was a rookie, Guinness was kind of an exposition bot, Ford was still feeling his role out (warning, you can't unhear the Harrison Ford newsie voice), and... I dunno, was there anyone else?

Granted, much of her role was finding different words calling the rest of the cast incompetent pussies, and anger and indignation are an easier play than actual emotional depth or rogue-ish charisma, but with or without qualifiers, she was the best in that movie.

Spoiler

Chewbacca was actually the best, but that's only because he was literally a two-legged chocolate lab.

Re: that trailer, fuck complaining about the shot of Jyn and the tie fighter on the cat walk not being in the movie, where was C-3P0 and that sick label rip in Empire when we needed it?

 

[Burt]

Re: that trailer, fuck complaining about the shot of Jyn and the tie fighter on the cat walk not being in the movie, where was C-3P0 and that sick label rip in Empire when we needed it?

Not gonna lie, that label rip earned a big 'wtf' from me too when I dug that trailer back up.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Imagine if they included just a few key scores from the main films. It would have made the movie GREAT.

Just some empire scores or something.

I liked the score better the 2nd time but man it was just 1 missed opportunity after another.
I know they wanted it to be its own thing but its really silly when its so connected to a mainline movie.
Vader castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-ED9kSMeU
Jyn's mom gives her the necklace: very slight Force Theme
Mass of Tie launch from from the shield gate: a bit of Tie Fighter Attack

Han, Fett, etc they can go crazy with.

 

[zoukka]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

 

[Monocle]

You want your mind blown, you should listen to the most recent episode of Star Wars Oxygen and find out just how deep the roots of Jyn's theme go...

One of my favorites is actually made right here in Portland. It's called "The Score," hosted by a guy named Edmund Stone, who has one of the best radio voices I've ever heard. It doesn't go as in depth as Collins does, but he gets interviews with a lot of composers pretty frequently, he tells interesting stories, and there's just a general enthusiasm for the music that's really infectious. And since it's for public radio first (podcast second) he gets to put whole cues in there, so not only is it a fun show for the score knowledge and the interviews, but each episode is basically a film score mixtape.

And yeah, if I thought it was a possibility that Collins would ever take his show away from Rebel Force Radio, I'd volunteer to record/produce/edit that show in a fucking heartbeat.

Thanks for these.

 

[Rydeen]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

Vader is responsible for the look and style of every single Saturday morning cartoon character of the 1980's, if anything he's overdue for a metal-as-fuck Sith fortress surrounded by lava like so many of his 80's cartoon imitators.

 

[Blackthorn]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

 

[Tomasoares]

I'm about 3/4s through Return of the Jedi, and I just have to apologize for putting it above TFA earlier in this thread.

Han Solo snuck into an Imperial installment by tapping an unarmed stormtrooper on his far shoulder and running around a corner.

I mean, there's like 40 things I could talk about beyond that, but like, the movie is pretty absurd. It isn't garbage, but it's absurd. And everyone's acting is still like 90% there at best. High highs and low lows.

I thought ANH had aged poorly, but I watched the Despecialized edition the other day and it was much better than I expected. ROTJ is solidifying itself as an easy call for third place in the OT.

And that additional George Lucas 1990s CGI addition stuff...?

Spoiler

jesus

Spoiler

christ

Spoiler

motherfucker

Spoiler

are you serious

I got kinda disappointed after I've watched episode VI for the first time, tbh. The only thing I really like about it is the Luke, Vader and the Emperor scenes. Everything else was kinda meh (it is still Star Wars, though, but not nearly as good as ANH or ESB)

 

[Einchy]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

I mean, have you ever seen Siths before? They're comically evil.

 

[Monocle]

I got kinda disappointed after I've watched episode VI for the first time, tbh. The only thing I really like about it is the Luke, Vader and the Emperor scenes. Everything else was kinda meh (it is still Star Wars, though, but not nearly as good as ANH or ESB)

I mean yeah, those are the best parts. Jabba's Palace (despecialized version) is good and Luke's return to Dagobah is OK too. The speeder chase stuff on Endor works also.

ROTJ is an inconsistent movie with a lot of goofiness you have to overlook, but I like its tone, and the feeling of the different setpieces. It may be the weakest of the OT, but it's still filled with iconic images, and it has some of the highest highs in the entire series.

It's hard for me to rank TFA above it, just because all the things I mentioned are defining aspects of the series. Star Wars without Jabba or the Emperor just isn't the same.

TFA may be more consistent, but removing it from the series wouldn't have nearly as great an impact as erasing ROTJ. That's maybe an unfair statement as long as the Sequel Trilogy is incomplete, but still. You've got to evaluate the series as it currently stands.

 

[Splatt]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

He looked like something from Quake

 

[Monocle]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

Yeah that was a standout design.

The mechanical bits jammed in the earholes kind of ick me out.

 

[Vampirolol]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

Tonally, it would have been perfect with any other Star Wars movie. Here it looked a little bit edgy.

 

[Iceternal]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

BOR GULLET !

 

[Tomasoares]

I mean yeah, those are the best parts. Jabba's Palace (despecialized version) is good and Luke's return to Dagobah is OK too. The speeder chase stuff on Endor works also.

ROTJ is an inconsistent movie with a lot of goofiness you have to overlook, but I like its tone, and the feeling of the different setpieces. It may be the weakest of the OT, but it's still filled with iconic images, and it has some of the highest highs in the entire series.

It's hard for me to rank TFA above it, just because all the things I mentioned are defining aspects of the series. Star Wars without Jabba or the Emperor just isn't the same.

TFA may be more consistent, but removing it from the series wouldn't have nearly as great an impact as erasing ROTJ. That's maybe an unfair statement as long as the Sequel Trilogy is incomplete, but still. You've got to evaluate the series as it currently stands.

Yeah, I agree with having iconic elements, though I don't really like some of them. The Jabba scenes IMO feels like filler and doesn't add much to the story. I haven't watched despecialized edition, but I remember Solo already meeting him in ANH, so you kinda already know the context. IMO, it feels like the beginning of Matrix 3.

I have only watched the OT around 2008, though (I watched TPM before when I was a kid, but didn't like it), so I guess when ROTJ was released many of these goofy stuff didn't look as bad.

In the end I had more fun with TFA (it has its own problems too, but no movie except ESB is perfect lol)

 

[SpaceWolf]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

I loved it. It put the fantasy back into science fantasy;

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

I thought he was the same species as Plo Koon

 

[Kinyou]

Did anyone think the Mord... I mean Lava Castle was a bit comical?

Vader really torturing himself by looking at lava all day long

 

[SilentRob]

I loved it. It put the fantasy back into science fantasy;

Didn't fit at all to the rest of the movie though. I'd say this would've been a step too far even for the OT, but in "Let's do Space Vietnam"-Rogue One? Wasn't sure what they were thinking with that. (I know it's an original sketch from the OT)

 

[SpaceWolf]

Didn't fit at all to the rest of the movie though. I'd say this would've been a step too far even for the OT, but in "Let's do Space Vietnam"-Rogue One? Wasn't sure what they were thinking with that. (I know it's an original sketch from the OT)

As a Star Wars film that also featured a telepathic space squid, a wise-cracking robot and solemn battle commanders who also happen to be talking fish...I really can't say Vader happening to have a fortress on a volcanic planet bothered me.

 

[kopitarrulez_11]

Was Saw's henchman a species we've seen before or was it just really well designed? It looked very familiar.

which one two tubes?

 

[zoukka]

As a Star Wars film that also featured a telepathic space squid, a wise-cracking robot and solemn battle commanders who also happen to be talking fish...I really can't say Vader happening to have a fortress on a volcanic planet bothered me.

Somehow I always felt that Vader and Emperor combined practicality and tech with their Force powers. We've always seen them in cold grey surroundings with gadgets and space views. The lava tower was a big contrast to that and somehow made Vader seem less intimidating to me. Like if anything he doesn't come off to me as your classical "show-off" villain.

I guess he was traumatized in RotS and looking at lava all day is his therapy.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

When I look again at the behind the scenes render that is from, the "final" on the far left is actually squeezed compared to the renders to its right. I think something went funny with the compositing of that last image. Also keep in mind that this is not necessarily an actual shot from the movie, its a behind the scenes render.

Stretch him back out a little (as below) and he looks a lot better. It won't be until we get official screenshots or screens from the bluray that we will actually be able to compare the final render.

That does look better to me..

 

[King Gilga]

The CG faces looked good, but I still got some uncanny valleyish feel from them, but that might be more because I was unconciously comparing them to the real ones in my head.

There were no Star Destroyers in the Prequels, the Republic Cruisers were more colorful (which fit their allegory for WW1 Battleships as opposed to the Nazi styled Empire). However, the Star Destroyers looked exactly like they did in Rogue One as they did in Episode 4, it was intentional, as the original Star Destroyers for A New Hope and the OT were models.

I love reading the new Wookiepedia page on Vander now that he's finally in a new movie.

That's what I meant, the OG movies, prequels, sequels, this is a prequel for the original sequels but a sequel for the newer sequels whatever got it confused.

And ah, I guess I missremembered I haven't seen the og movies for like two decades now. .

The star destroyer is one of my favorite ship design but I really like the grime/space wear most of the non empire ships had so in my head I had merged both I guess. I also used that for the star destroyer model I made and I like it better that way.

The ones in the movie just really stuck out at me for some reason.

 

[FeD.nL]

Didn't fit at all to the rest of the movie though. I'd say this would've been a step too far even for the OT, but in "Let's do Space Vietnam"-Rogue One? Wasn't sure what they were thinking with that. (I know it's an original sketch from the OT)

I think it made sense. It adds something to both Vader and the Emperor (putting Vader on the planet where he was scarred for life by Obi, thus fuelling his hatred). And since the scene was neccesary for the (rewritten parts of the) third act I thought the location made way more sense than say a Star Destroyer or random planet.

 

[King Gilga]

I feel like I'm missed something, l remember Vader being on a lava planet. There was the scene on his ship where he was in the tank and then punned the lame villain guy, and then at the end on the ship.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Somehow I always felt that Vader and Emperor combined practicality and tech with their Force powers. We've always seen them in cold grey surroundings with gadgets and space views. The lava tower was a big contrast to that and somehow made Vader seem less intimidating to me. Like if anything he doesn't come off to me as your classical "show-off" villain.

I guess he was traumatized in RotS and looking at lava all day is his therapy.

Was your issue with the theatrical design of the tower itself, the fact it happened to be located in a Mordor-like setting or a combination of the two?

I feel like I'm missed something, l remember Vader being on a lava planet. There was the scene on his ship where he was in the tank and then punned the lame villain guy, and then at the end on the ship.

You don't seem to so much be missing something as confusing two different scenes. The scene where he was in the tank wasn't on a ship, it was within the castle located on Mustafar (the lave planet). He then went down to meet Krennic within another level of the castle, so it was all set within the same setting.