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[Obliterator]

Yeah and that's still just a rumor. It also never saw the light of day or was pushed as a big reason to purchase a PS4.

Oh I'm not comparing it to Scalebound. Just adding that whole situation with that IP also was messy as hell.

Something like what's going on with current MS is crazy. I can't seem to recall another 1st party in recent times canceling so many publicly revealed projects

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Here is what has been said by Liam:

- Microsoft and PG clashed creatively, had an very negative impact on the dev team
- The stress from the above is said to have made both Kamiya and JP Kellams take an absence from the project stating "mental health issues"
- Platinum Games struggled to get the game to perform consistently on the Xbox One, citing Microsoft wouldn't compromise and wouldn't choose to scale back features causing the issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3q85SF8sj0

Yeah that sounds like the gist of what I've heard through social media. I still want to know more about those creative clashes.

 

[Regiruler]

What makes you think this is a goood idea? Remember they clashed badly with Capcom management creatively which is why they left. And recently also Capcom have changed focus away from AAA console games. Apart from 1 or 2 big budget games most of their focus will be on free to play and mobile stuff which is huge in Asia.

Aligning with Nintendo like Treasure have done successfuly is much better strategy. As creatively they are on the same page. Remember Kamiya said on making W101, that Nintendo let them just get on with it and make the game that they wanted to make. There wasnt any friction.

Treasure is a bad example, as Nintendo only collaborated for one game and then they slipped into mobile/farmout oblivion.
EDIT: Wait, not even that. I'm thinking of Taito, Treasure has done nothing since gaist and may have stopped making games

 

[100%TrophyMaster]

Man I'm really bummed this got cancelled! Haven't used my Xbox in awhile and was pretty excited for this game

 

[wmlk]

The sequel's on the DS.

And it's shit and does the original no justice. But at least Rei Kondo got some good music in.

 

[OniBaka]

Yeah, I feel like I'm missing something. Is there a reason why Kamiya wouldn't want to work with Sony? post-Capcom fallout or something?

They probably meant shinji mikami

 

[He1nekenP1ss]

Holy fuck this thread is long.

I wasn't following this game closely. Why is this news such a big deal?

- It was the only exclusive japanese game for the Xbox One (from a major studio)
- It's a bad signal sent to people wanting a more diverse portfolio on the Xbox One
- It's Platinum, and it's Kamiya, which are known for making fun and memorable games.
- (speculative) It shows that apparently Microsoft want a ROI from the games they give money too. On the other hand Sony seems willing to take risks with games probably not profitable (Gravity Rush 2 sadly, I'd like to be wrong)

 

[Outtrigger888]

Does Microsoft own the IP? Could someone pick up the tab and get this game finished?

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Hopefully Platinum can partner with someone else and still bring this game out. They'd have to change the name and probably the main character and stuff, but its still possible, just look at Sleeping Dogs.

 

[Psychoward]

Perhaps. Though I find it hard to believe that a company would flush 4 years worth of money down the toilet to cancel a game that was "fine".

Some people are bending over backwards to defend Platinum lol.

If it comes out that it's another Kojima situation, sure, but until then...

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Sony not funding a Platinum game isn't because Kamiya doesn't want to work with him. Maybe they've pitched games to Sony and they just turned them down because that's what happens.

At least there had been rumors that neither MS or Sony wanted to fund Bayonetta 2.

 

[TaterTots]

Why? Nier Automata is awesome. And they will be sure to pick up some Nintendo projects for Switch in future.

Nier makes enough cash to keep the studio afloat?

 

[NotLiquid]

Does Microsoft own the IP? Could someone pick up the tab and get this game finished?

Yep, its Microsoft. Which is a crying shame, Scalebound was one of Kamiya's biggest dream projects. He paid a whole lot of dues to make it happen.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Does Microsoft own the IP? Could someone pick up the tab and get this game finished?

They funded the development so yeah they likely own everything from the IP to the code.

 

[FuturusX]

Perhaps. Though I find it hard to believe that a company would flush 4 years worth of money down the toilet to cancel a game that was "fine".

Still it's possible that is has more to do with creative and business directions than the quality of the product.

 

[rokkerkory]

Yeah that sounds like the gist of what I've heard through social media. I still want to know more about those creative clashes.

Super unfortunate. Perhaps both sides can learn here but at least we aren't getting a shitty game.

Hope PG is ok however

 

[Krappadizzle]

Bummed to find out about this. It seemed interesting and the coop could have been fun.

 

[kadotsu]

Does Microsoft own the IP? Could someone pick up the tab and get this game finished?

Legend of Dragoon 2: The Quest to Legal Distinction

 

[Net]

Damn, I'm worried about Kamiya now. Dude hasn't been active on Twitter for a while, and he's a Twitter addict.

According to shinobi the whole ordeal drove him to sickness.

Yea, heard it's been canned. Super rough development, milestones missed, payments stopped. Kamiya stressed as hell.

Heard he took time off for his mental health, yea :-/

Get well soon Kamiya.

 

[Wereroku]

Still it's possible that is has more to do with creative and business directions than the quality of the product.

The rumors say the game was having technical issues that they couldn't solve. However the other side to that is that MS wouldn't budge on required features, probably the co-op, which would have allowed them to get it working better. So with everything coming out it seems like it was a troubled game but wasn't a complete mess or anything.

 

[ohlawd]

I'm so disappointed with this news

 

[Sharpeye]

I have a feeling that what little support Xbox had from Japanese devs is going to disappear if the rumors of mistreatment are true. Heck, devs in general will probably look elsewhere before they go to Microsoft for support at this point. There not quite Konami tier in shadiness but they're getting there.

 

[renzolama]

Why does everyone think that Nintendo is falling all over themselves to pay for more Platinum projects? Both W101 and Bayonetta 2 were commercial failures for Nintendo. Optimism is great, and I love Platinum as much as anyone, but Nintendo is an extremely fiscally conservative company; where did this notion that Nintendo wants to continue throwing money at commercial flops come from?

 

[Kazuo Hirai]

To be fair he didn't say "I don't hate Sony"

But yeah, I think it's a silly rumor that doesn't have any real backing.

In my country's "wikipedia"(not the wikipedia), there is:
"Kamiya is a loyal Nintendo fanboy"

 

[Psychoward]

Why does everyone think that Nintendo is falling all over themselves to pay for more Platinum projects? Both W101 and Bayonetta 2 were commercial failures for Nintendo. Optimism is great, and I love Platinum as much as anyone, but Nintendo is an extremely fiscally conservative company; where did this notion that Nintendo wants to continue throwing money at commercial flops come from?

The fact that they contracted Platinum for Bayo 2 after w101 was the biggest Bomba of last gen maybe.

Unless bayo 2 was announced before w101 already came out, I'm not sure

 

[rockman zx]

Never made any sense to me that Microsoft wanted a game from Platinum but this is surprising, I wonder if the assets, ip and all that stuff is owned by Microsoft or they let Platinum have it.

 

[Kyoufu]

I have a feeling that what little support Xbox had from Japanese devs is going to disappear if the rumors of mistreatment are true. Heck, devs in general will probably look elsewhere before they go to Microsoft for support at this point. There not quite Konami tier in shadiness but they're getting there.

What makes you think Japanese developers don't already look elsewhere before working with Microsoft?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Still it's possible that is has more to do with creative and business directions than the quality of the product.

Well the reports are that they were missing deadlines and milestones, which absolutely have to do with the quality of the product.

MS had a lot invested in this game. They funded it for 4 years and who knows how many millions of dollars. They showcased it multiple times at trade shows. I doubt they just canned it on a whim. They had a lot to lose here and this likely happened as a last resort. Things had to have been going pretty wrong in their eyes, and consider that they didn't have a problem sending out games like ReCore to tepid critical and commercial response, I doubt the problem is simply that MS' vision or standards are too high for a developer to reach.

 

[He1nekenP1ss]

Why? Nier Automata is awesome. And they will be sure to pick up some Nintendo projects for Switch in future.

Nier Automate demo is incredible incredible, and hopefully Nintendo will work with Platinum Games again.

But the cancellation of an important game so late into development, with I guess a big team from Platinum is a pill very hard to swallow. It may lead to demotivation and uncertainty for a time.

I hope the best for Kamiya and the team, we need more fun games from them, whatever the platform.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

You have no evidence to suggest that the game was going to get terrible reviews...

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

And yes, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the game had a bad frame rate, just look at the E3 and Gamescom demos.

 

[tiebreaker]

I finally able to see what MS is trying to do. Sony has been successful with their unveiling of the holy trinity at E3 2015 and they are trying to copy them.

Maybe we will see Scalebound, Phantom Dust, and Crackdown in 10 years.

Spoiler

/jk

 

[FunkyPajamas]

They funded the development so yeah they likely own everything from the IP to the code.

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

 

[icespide]

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

The last guardian says hi

Seriously though you'll be amazed by how shitty of a frame rate people will put up with

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

Because MS had the leverage in that situation. If Kamiya demanded IP ownership they probably would have told him to go fly a kite and find funding somewhere else.

 

[Atomski]

Time to go indie..

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Lol Microsoft are an embarrassment. The one game I was looking forward to and they're going to cancel it. What a tragic company.

Exactly what I am thinking actually.

Can only shake my head at Microsoft. It's not like we couldn't have waited another 6-9 months or so and I'm pretty sure the game would've been finished by then.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

And yes, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the game had a bad frame rate, just look at the E3 and Gamescom demos.

A game that has bad framerate when is 1 year or more away from release dosn't mean is gonna release with that framerate.

 

[Psychoward]

Honestly though, what's stopping Platinum from going to Sony next?

Activision is done with their licensed games, for Nintendo they released two sales flops and now they're gonna have bad blood with Microsoft. Seems like their only three options here for publishers are Ubisoft, EA or Sony and I imagine Sony would let them have the most creative freedom out of those.

Edit: I guess I hadn't considered Japanese publishers like Square, Atlus etc. but I won't pretend to know anything about them cause I only care about Eidos.

 

[prwxv3]

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

He agreed because no one else would even give him a chance to make his dream game. I would acept too quite frankly. I don't think he expected to get fucked over like this if the rumors are true.

 

[Net]

You know, this is something I don't get. I thought this was supposed to be Kamiya's baby/dream project, why would he agree on giving MS ownership of the IP? I mean, obviously money (the funding for the project to ever see the light of day, ironically enough), but even if the project did great, Microsoft would still own the IP and thus be able to determine what happened with it in the future.

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but I feel like that was a bad call.

It's standard practice for publishers to own the IP.

 

[bman94]

Why does everyone think that Nintendo is falling all over themselves to pay for more Platinum projects? Both W101 and Bayonetta 2 were commercial failures for Nintendo. Optimism is great, and I love Platinum as much as anyone, but Nintendo is an extremely fiscally conservative company; where did this notion that Nintendo wants to continue throwing money at commercial flops come from?

I mean Devil's Third, Tokyo Mirage Sessions were commercial flops too, and Nintendo probably knew that coming in but they needed software for the Wii U, simple as that. 3rd Parties didn't put shit on the system so they had to find ways to fill out the gaps. Easiest way to do that without creating brand new IPs is to fund stuff that was partially complete.

 

[NotLiquid]

The fact that they contracted Platinum for Bayo 2 after w101 was the biggest Bomba of last gen maybe.

Unless bayo 2 was announced before w101 already came out, I'm not sure

Bayo 2 was announced before TW101 came out but I have to imagine that Nintendo had a modest expectation for the former based on the platform it was on and the sales of the predecessor. They also reprinted Bayo 2 after the Smash reveal since they were anticipating the Smash effect to boost franchise sales I imagine.

The sales of Bayonetta 2 is something they had to have been prepared for knowing how the Wii U fared two years in.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

That's usually what happens when a game is released with a terrible frame rate... bad reviews.

And yes, there is plenty of evidence to suggest the game had a bad frame rate, just look at the E3 and Gamescom demos.

Eh no. At most there will be mentions of the framerate in some of the reviews, and DF in-depth videos would mention it, but A LOT of highly reviewed games have framerate issues. Unless you mean "actually unplayable", like constant drops below 10fps.

 

[Kazuo Hirai]

The last guardian says hi

Seriously though you'll be amazed by how shitty of a frame rate people will put up with

The last guardian only get 83 MTC, it could be higher(not polygon)

 

[Oersted]

The fact that they contracted Platinum for Bayo 2 after w101 was the biggest Bomba of last gen maybe.

Unless bayo 2 was announced before w101 already came out, I'm not sure

Bayonetta 2 was announced on September 13, 2012.

The Wonderful 101 earlier in June during the E3.

 

[renzolama]

The fact that they contracted Platinum for Bayo 2 after w101 was the biggest Bomba of last gen maybe.

Unless bayo 2 was announced before w101 already came out, I'm not sure

Yeah...but then Bayo 2 did not do well either. I'm rooting for Platinum as much as anyone (hell, I bought a Wii U just for Bayo), but I wish there was some actual indication that Nintendo was interested in working with them again.

 

[Regiruler]

I mean Devil's Third, Tokyo Mirage Sessions were commercial flops too, and Nintendo probably knew that coming in but they needed software for the Wii U, simple as that. 3rd Parties didn't put shit on the system so they had to find ways to fill out the gaps. Easiest way to do that without creating brand new IPs is to fund stuff that was partially complete.

TMS was done from the ground up with nintendo.

 

[Sparkedglory]

Well fuck

 

[SneakersSO]

To the MS fans sitting here defending MS & trying to throw this at Platinum's feet - i'd really refrain from doing so if I were you. When the smoke clears & the articles about what really happened here get written, MS is gonna look even worse. This aint on Platinum.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

A game that has bad framerate when is 1 year or more away from release dosn't mean is gonna release with that framerate.

Eurogamer reported the game still had engine issues in the fall.