MilkyJoe
Member
Most anticipated?
Scalebound cancelled [Platinum Games and Kamiya have commented]
- Thread starter SteveO409
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Most anticipated?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Well PS4 attach rate right now is about 7. something so yeah it matters .
It bring people into the ecosystem .
Where they buy other games and may pay for PSN plus .
Only games I could feasibly come up with are Dying Light 2 or Techland's new fantasy IP (not Hellraid, that's different). 2K might be willing to play ball for a timed exclusivity on Borderlands 3, given how Battleborn bombed.
Succinctly put.
Eolz
Member
According to the gaf thread, it indeed was the most anticipated X1 exclusive (#22 overall followed by Cuphead at 27 and Crackdown at 30).
But then again, it's just GAF taste. P5 was #2 but will sell less than most games there.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
it does matter. I'm not sure if you are serious or not but whatever I'll elaborate
People tend to know that you can play destiny, battlefield, call of duty, etc on either console (Though Scrooge's point may stand that a lot of people might believe that the game [destiny] is hobbled on xbone). So they need a reason to buy whichever console. Graphics horsepower may sway some. Whichever there friends are on definitely matters. Then you add in the other games they can play. It becomes do you want to play gears/halo/forza the most, or one of a lot fucking more PS4 exclusives more. A lot of people could end up agreeing that battlefield, COD, and other shooters are already scratching the same itch as gears and halo, but on PS4 they can play bloodborne, need an action platformer for their kids like ratchet and clank, or a story driven adventure shooter like uncharted. Maybe they are even more off the beaten path and want to play a few japanese games like Tales Of (hey who knows, they couldve been fans of Symphonia back in the day)
Microsoft cancelling games like Phantom Dust and Scalebound.
While Sony putting out new IPs like Horizon, Dreams, Detroit and Days Gone. Not only that but they are continuing to push diverse AA games that won't light up the charts like Gravity Rush 2, Until Dawn, Bloodborne and Knack 2. Then PS4 gets exclusives for free from Japanese developers with games like Nier and Persona 5.
I just don't see why anyone would want to choose a Xbox One over a PS4. Unless they are massive Forza, Gears or Halo fans.
While Sony putting out new IPs like Horizon, Dreams, Detroit and Days Gone. Not only that but they are continuing to push diverse AA games that won't light up the charts like Gravity Rush 2, Until Dawn, Bloodborne and Knack 2. Then PS4 gets exclusives for free from Japanese developers with games like Nier and Persona 5.
I just don't see why anyone would want to choose a Xbox One over a PS4. Unless they are massive Forza, Gears or Halo fans.
NoHeDidn't
Member
What we need are more dungeon crawlers on consoles!!I mean Diablo 3 is fantastic in everyway and it sucks that other devs aren't capitalizing on genres where there isn't much competition.Last gen MS had Mass Effect if they made a few dungeon crawlers or action/rpgs type games I'd probably buy a Xbone to scratch that itch.
I haven't been that big of a part of Scalebound discussions because it was just kind of one of those games I have no interest in discussing in the Interwebz before release because I want to spoil as little of the game as possible and was just content in waiting for, especially not in hyperbolically negative reaction threads to super early footage.
The game's cancellation hits me hard because I really like most of Platinum's games and outside of TMNT and Star Fox, I have bought each and every one of them and Scalebound was one of my most anticipated games (right there besides Kingdom Hearts III, Nier Automata, Beyond Good & Evil 2 and Shenmue 3).
Just because people weren't discussing the game in some random thread means fuck all, really. You can find FFXV threads that are only 2-3 pages long but the game's physical copies shipped + digital copies sold still exceeded 6 million copies within 1,5 months of release.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Because Gears is supposed to be a mega IP, Bloodborne is supposed to be niche, but they mostly evened out and even a game on a dead system outsold both.
I agree with you that diversification is key, but so is marketing and actually understanding your audience. Bloodborne did better than expectations because of this, Gears did worse than expectations. The better example is Recore, which failed to understand the Xbox audience, failed to produce a good game, and Microsoft just sort of released it without any fanfare.
They do diversification, they just don't do it well.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Yep, as I stated earlier games like Destiny, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto V and Sports titles were the major coupes for Sony this generation over any exclusive they could've created. Same story with whatever sales Microsoft's Xbox One have.
Uno Venova
Banned
yep
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
That is a silly notion.
But Microsoft did fuck up. This should have been cancelled years ago, to spare a lot of grief.
Eolz
Member
A new Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance would have been a nice exclusive. Known IP, nostalgia, and interesting competitor in the genre.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Don't think there a dumb company .
I just think they don't read the market good sometimes which is something that happen a lot this gen .
Even after BB came out Sony said they want to keep the hardcore happy .
All of this is part of marketing and branding for your system .
But 7 in today's market is not great.
7 would've been good 10 years ago. Now that Sony doesn't get a mostly flat fee for every game being made for their system it's probably not so great.
Of course they still make money and the corollary is that being even worse than the PS4 is really not great.
But I don't think any of this proves that having these non-blockbuster games are actually the reason systems have been successful. I would like to believe that to be the case, but I don't think there is enough evidence for it.
At most I think having a diverse portfolio will satisfy people that argue on GAF, but I think you can fall down the rabbit hole so much that even something like this doesn't matter, the brand is all that matters.
I'm absolutely serious and thanks for the elaboration.
I just don't agree that the not so great selling games are responsible for the decisions as much as first party blockbusters such as Halo in its day or Uncharted now. Maybe there can be a secondary effect of having a staple of continuous exclusive support for many years like everyone has internalized about Nintendo but even that isn't bringing in the really huge numbers.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
That's why platinum games own title Bayonneta 2 sold badly on it as did Xenoblade, #FE and a numerous other titles. That's a nonsense excuse. Those games would have sold the exact same at least on the 3DS if not more. Being "starved" litterally meant nothing. The reasons why I point out Bloodborne as niches is because for company like Microsoft that's already substantially behind, a relatively niche game like that will do barely anything, it certainly won't change their current outlooked. They's need 5-10 bloodbornes to make an appreciable effect or a few true break outs. If Bloodborne was on XB1 rather than PS4 do you really think it would have had a substantial effect?
There is a link but it can sometimes be something like
Red Dead Redemption 2 is announced -> that is the game for someone that causes them to jump in to this generation of consoles when previously they've been happy with PS360 still -> dilemma: which console to choose? -> PS4 also has niche games X, Y & Z while Xbox doesn't have anything the like -> PS4 it is.
So Red Dead Redemption 2 is the game that actually causes the install base growth, but the niche games direct some customers to PS4.
That's exactly what it is. The same repetitive shit from the same repetitive usernames. They'd rather come in here to muddy waters, start useless random shit than actually participate in the discussion(s) at hand. Hell, even reading the actual thread would be a good start for them. But it seems we might be asking too much in this regard cause you see the same shit regurgitated page after page.
I'm now looking forward to that MS E3 this year, cause they have to bring out all their guns if they want Scorpio to take off. Wondering how many new IP announcements will be made at their E3 this year.
Psyrgery ES
Member
Not much besides Sea of Thieves, Crackdown 3 and Cuphead.
Hope you like some Forza, Halo and Gears
Sr. Wiggles
Banned
feels like the next big release is going to be crackdown... and i assume that's coming end of year (scorpio launch). pretty damn pathetic overall.
ay ay ay... And no rumors of a super new IP or something like that? Maybe this time Destiny 2 will be on their side?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Where did you get the idea that Sony no longer get a flat fee ?
BB help the brand that is the whole point .
Something does not need to sell big to help the brand .
Of course some titles will have bigger effect than others but all of them about helping the brand .
Yeah, but this is the sort of "common knowledge" argument that we lean on.
It's just as likely that RDR2 gets someone to jump in. 70% of their friends have a PS4, so they get the PS4. Or they ask a friend and the friend says "PS4 is dope, you should get one"
Now, niche game x, y and z may have gotten one of those 70% of friends to pick PS4, and that is what we've all sort of always thought was the case. But, it's very possible that early momentum creates success, and simply have a vague perception of being "the best console" is enough to get the job done, and how you get that status may be a lot less tangible than "release 10 solid exclusives in lots of genres a year". And my guess is this late in a consoles life cycle moving alpha gamers off of a platform they are invested in is easier said than done.
onemanasylum
Banned
I think Sony signed a long term deal for Destiny, like 10 years? I could be wrong.
Console industry has historically been retail based, where every printed copy brought in a certain amount of dollar no matter the price point that the publisher decided on.
Now with the rise of a digital marketplace on consoles this is not the case for the digital portion, it has been replaced with 30% from the sales price, which is variable from game to game and over time.
So their future is looking darker and darker? Maybe DICE and Battlefront 2 may save the console
/s
There will definitely be 1 or 2 surprises that might or might not come to fruition in their lifetime. There has to be cause that shit is lackluster as hell.
ok so assuming their are running the xbox division on some datamined insight...what exactly is this insight?
driving games are good? multiplayer first and foremost? ....RTS spinoffs of known franchises is the real ticket to console kingship?!?!?!?
I don't doubt that a company like MS will want to do something more than flying by the seat of the pants guided by random theories about niche games, but you are proposing more than that, that they have some data driven insight that gives better results than forumers theoricrafting their division management but I am honestly not seeing it
and yeah I get that multiplayer games with recurring revenue is a good idea...but that it is if you are a developer. as a platform holder I am not convinced that kind of focus will really grow the platform
ShadowSoldier89
Member
all of these arguments are plenty logical, but lets also remember the PS3, where its fortunes turned around as its price improved and its library GREATLY expanded and diversified, while the xbox 360's began to stagnate
I actually think microsoft right now is further behind the eight ball than sony ever was with the PS3, because it doesnt look like Sony has any intention to back down on its game releases like microsoft did during the 360 era
onemanasylum
Banned
Of course they are, Sony's brand power World wide is something MS does not have making their position much more tenuous.
NoHeDidn't
Member
I've always felt that way about Xbone regardless so I guess niche padding is a plus.
That "niche as fuck" game helped move a fuck ton of consoles.
Comparing a new IP to established Nintendo franchises is a bit flawed, of course Mario Kart U & Smash Bros U will sell better.
Outside of Splatoon, did any new Nintendo IPs sell 2 million+?
Edit - top of the page, damnit.
50ppp
Principate
Saint Titanfall
At this point exclusives won't substantially move consoles, unless their really, really substantial but I but say they have no effect overall. You can see this with the PS4. The good will from PS3 and all those smaller riskier games and big pays likely played a role when people jump to the next transition where their friends haven't picked a console already and brand loyalty is much more up in the air. I think Ucharted's substantial growth is at a least partially due to that. Lots of Xbox gamers knew what Uncharted was a franchise even if they never played any of the previous games, so when they finally owned said console they bought it.
Psyrgery ES
Member
It could be, but at least at the beginning of this gen (Ms fucking up the Xbone aside) there were reasons to believe they would bring new heavy-hitters Ips aboard:
Sunset Overdrive
Ori
Quantum Break
Scalebound
ReCore
Cuphead
Ryse
Titanfall and Dead Rising 3(3rd party exclusive, that is)
They've either had a lacklaster reception or haven't sold well enough, so Ms has just ditched them... And went back to Halo/Forza/Gears.
Freaking shame.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
but a large variety of interesting releases helped turn around the PS3
That's still only what you believe was the reason the PS3 sold. This is not objective truth.
It's way easier to point to the impact of the Kinect had on the 360 than on a large variety of interesting releases had on the PS3.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
No it wouldn't, no chance in hell of that. You have to remember Xbox's brand was toxic early (TV, TV, TV, and no used games were still fresh) which is why Titanfall was eviscerated despite doing fairly well for itself and selling way more than what Bloodborne would have hoped to do. It would of had a greater chance of being sent to die than change MS fortunes. MS was actually doing better than Sony on the exclusive front early on not worse. That's why Bloodborne is even noticeable.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yes i know thought you were talking about something else.
Still even back in the retail days fees could get adjust like how Sony did for SE with FF7.
Sony did release critical and commercial successes such as Last of Us till the very end of PS3, which did move PS3 units and created goodwill which partly resulted in the momentum of PS4.
Microsofts massive DRM blunder, in the addition of the Kinect, which barely anyone wanted at that point and being the weaker, more expensive console did the rest.
MS was the out of touch baddie, Sony delivered what gamers wanted.
Now what Microsoft needs is some momentum, some goodwill.
Where is that coming from? From budget cuts?
And Below the game from CAPY
Pretty much this; as a developer/publisher dealing with a lot of user behavior data, I'd say the "common knowledge" of the minority audience is a very biased point of view that ultimately is also wrong most of the time. These hypothesis of how consumer behaviour works is usually driven by how people want it to be, rather than how consumer psychology actually works most of the time.
This console generation (and past years in games industry) has been very much about consolidation and I feel that diversity and niche titles have very little room or meaning for the companies. For the most part (I'm not counting Bloodborne, as it's been built on strong IP and references, and manages to almost stand among the AAA games in production value as well) these have not only underperformed, but they lack the scale needed to support the GaaS direction and focus in the industry. Brand power doesn't scale linearily, so with the ever-growing chasm between the smaller titles and 80 mil+ titles it's not really reasonable to expect that small niche titles have any noticeable effect.
onemanasylum
Banned
The ps3 outsold xbox 360 day 1 launch aligned....why does this narrative keep getting told, it never turned around it was always outselling xbox. It launched a year later and 16 months later in europe After saying that, people are underestimating exclusives, many got a ps4 early on because they knew a new Uncharted, GOW, LAst of us, MLB would come, same with Ps3. I got a ps3 for MLB the show, Demons souls, MGS and uncharted.
the bulk of console sales will happen not in the first year anyway, where a vague "the best console" buzz will be stronger than "solid exclusives for cheap in the discount bin" 3 years into the console life tho. and those solid exclusives will also create part of the "the best console" buzz anyway
ms knows they can actually revert a trend, as from time to time they will time a bunch of new games + a console discount to get a temporary 1st sale place on consoles for a couple of months here and there, but the problem is maintaining that
honestly I think MS is just playing the long game here. they have made clear their strategy of keeping the Xbox One alive "forever" as a backward compatible console, so they are content with people buying an xbox and building up a library. sooner or later they will release Scorpio and their games will keep working, and then a successor to that and games will keep working
so they hope they won't need the vague buzz of "the best console" and the random competition to subsidize the best console exclusives, cause at some point Sony will release the PS5 and have to rebuild their install base, while MS will just keep on trucking with an eternal generation that already has an install base and a comparable console
as such random exclusives maybe don't matter as much as just getting people to upgrade to Scorpio. maybe Scalebound got hit with this random requirement and Platinum could not deliver on this front
onemanasylum
Banned
All signs to sony doing the same ala pro.....you are making a lot of assumptions here. Sony is also looking to do away with gens and everything being forward and backward compatible. Sony is also playing a long game here,
ShadowSoldier89
Member
its not a belief though, its an analysis based on available data. Sure it could be wrong, but I'm not pulling shit out of my ass here. PS4, and PS2 have both dominated their market, and both have their releases in common. PS2 even more so. PS3s sales fortunes turned around when their variety of exclusive games ramped up. Xbox 360 sales stagnated when their releases did the same, seeing a boost with Kinect.
And at this point, what else does the PS4 have that the one doesnt. Their online structure is similar, the consoles arent very different in power, and media options are actually better on the One. Its clearly possible that the PS4's continued growth as more people enter the generation is based on it being the system that friends are playing on already, however that did not seem to be a factor when the PS3 made a resurgence.
one game was never going to be enough
StoOgE is basically talking about how catering to enthusiasts can result in them influencing others for the network effect.
It's a meme with the "first to 10 million will win the generation", but there is undoubtedly some truth to it due to those effects and how people pick up the console that their social circle has.
onemanasylum
Banned
Again...ps3 outsold 360 launch aligned day 1...it never turned around, it never had to.
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