Horizon Zero Dawn - Preview Thread [Up: All Previews Live]

Neoleo2143 said:
Well, yeah the intro of the game features places that have less enemies because the player isn't equipped to take on larger groups. Surprise.

Immediately off the intro area when the player has most of their toolset, Enemies can be in groups of 10-12 and they all 1-3 shot Link.
Click to expand...
it still seems like it's huge empty spaces in Zelda though from some play-throughs, and the bloom/fog just shows how technically less impressive it is.

Still, the comparisons seem pretty odd. Horizon looks to excel at shooting, fast paced strategic combat, while Zelda is more hand-hand combat with a variety of different tools, and likely a strong emphasis on puzzles. I think the games won't feel similar in hardly any way. The shooters roots in Horizon are pretty evident.
 
Domcorleone said:
Here are examples of animation, VA and dialogue in the most recent RPGs. I dont see how anyone who are fans of these games can say how its much different/better.

Witcher 3 is clearly the best. The others? Not so much in comparison to Horizon. Curious to see what you guys think.

Witcher 3

https://youtu.be/iZGLcuH3OGc?t=39s

Final Fantasy XV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwYOwqAhCI

Dragon Age Inquisition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKS2GYlrWLg

Mass Effect Andromeda

https://youtu.be/NOIzH6UcoW4?t=1m28s

Horizon Zero Dawn

https://youtu.be/oKIEeglflfQ?t=18m20s

https://youtu.be/V07RU1SwZyo?t=8m40s

Fallout 4 LOL

https://youtu.be/qYqKZy1BD8w?t=38s
Click to expand...
tks for this, really puts in into perspective...

Also, I still haven't opened my Witcher 3 and MGSV copies lol, Its just not easy for me to commit to open-world games I know they take a lot of time. I hope Horizon's fun combat doesn't ruin Witcher 3 for me, because I really want to get through that story.
 
Domcorleone said:
In comparison to Witcher 3, yes. Every other recent RPG no and I have the receipts to prove it if you look above your post.
Click to expand...
meh, IMO, the scene with Varl and others are comparable to Witcher. Witcher is the best so far, but it's not leagues above, the best writing and acting is likely reserved for main campaigns and important quest, which we haven't seen yet.

The main character in Witcher sounds like he's trying so hard to sound "cool and edgy" like an action movie or wolverine.
 
Domcorleone said:
In comparison to Witcher 3, yes. Every other recent RPG no and I have the receipts to prove it if you look above your post.
Click to expand...
Who said I like the voice acting in any recent rpgs? There are all equally shit personally my opinion may be in the minority but I would rather do without it altogether.
 
Omnistalgic said:
it still seems like it's huge empty spaces in Zelda though from some play-throughs, and the bloom/fog just shows how technically less impressive it is.
Click to expand...

It seems like it. That isn't actually the case though for the most part I feel because the world seems pretty good at naturally guiding the player. Plus there's a secret pretty much everywhere that doesn't obviously highlight itself. The game actually hides its content and asks you to come find it.

And well yeah, Zelda being less impressive on a technical level is pretty much fact.
 
Yeah I'm not sure what amazing open world games there are with incredible VA work, body language, camera work and so on. As others have said the Witcher 3 is the king but there are tons of conversations with random quest givers and NPC's where they basically sway from side to side, maybe shake their heads and a few other very basic, stiff animation cycles. Geralt also does that shrug a lot while being stone faced most of the time, which I know is part of his character at that point, but still. Most non linear experiences suffer in this respect as its very hard to hand craft each and every dialogue or minor cut scene to the point it comes close to anything like Naughty Dog or the like.
 
Neoleo2143 said:
It seems like it. That isn't actually the case though for the most part I feel because the world seems pretty good at naturally guiding the player. Plus there's a secret pretty much everywhere that doesn't obviously highlight itself. The game actually hides its content and asks you to come find it.

And well yeah, Zelda being less impressive on a technical level is pretty much fact.
Click to expand...
Yeah agreed, it makes for rewarding gameplay to find secrets and stuff, but I hope it's not so obscure that you need a forum like GAF to figure out how to unlock the best swords/shields and stuff, lol. Souls series push the envelop sometimes with the secrets. Surprisingly, looks like Horizon has this too though with the Cauldrons, very very happy GG has taken inspiration from seemingly gameplay-focused experiences like MH, Souls, Zelda, etc...
 
Domcorleone said:
Here are examples of animation, VA and dialogue in the most recent RPGs. I dont see how anyone who are fans of these games can say how its much different/better.

Witcher 3 is clearly the best. The others? Not so much in comparison to Horizon. Curious to see what you guys think.

Witcher 3

https://youtu.be/iZGLcuH3OGc?t=39s

Final Fantasy XV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwYOwqAhCI

Dragon Age Inquisition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKS2GYlrWLg

Mass Effect Andromeda

https://youtu.be/NOIzH6UcoW4?t=1m28s

Horizon Zero Dawn

https://youtu.be/oKIEeglflfQ?t=18m20s

https://youtu.be/V07RU1SwZyo?t=8m40s

Fallout 4 LOL

https://youtu.be/qYqKZy1BD8w?t=38s
Click to expand...



Great post. Hopefully these people focusing on one cutscene will quit basing the quality of the entire game on that.
Cutscenes put some people off because of the fact the the character models are so damn good. If the animation isn't perfect then you find yourself knee deep in the uncanny valley. Regardless, GG seem to be putting a lot more effort into this aspect of the game than others.
 
Domcorleone said:
Here are examples of animation, VA and dialogue in the most recent RPGs. I dont see how anyone who are fans of these games can say how its much different/better.

Witcher 3 is clearly the best. The others? Not so much in comparison to Horizon. Curious to see what you guys think.

Witcher 3

https://youtu.be/iZGLcuH3OGc?t=39s

Final Fantasy XV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwYOwqAhCI

Dragon Age Inquisition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKS2GYlrWLg

Mass Effect Andromeda

https://youtu.be/NOIzH6UcoW4?t=1m28s

Horizon Zero Dawn

https://youtu.be/oKIEeglflfQ?t=18m20s

https://youtu.be/V07RU1SwZyo?t=8m40s

Fallout 4 LOL

https://youtu.be/qYqKZy1BD8w?t=38s
Click to expand...
But that cutscene
 
Interfectum said:
Two open world adventure/RPG games with crafting elements released at nearly the same time. The comparisons are going to be made.
Click to expand...

The comparisons started way back before Zelda even had a release date. If I remember correctly Horizon was being compared to Scalebound, now it's Zelda, and this is before Scalebound was cancelled.
 
Both Zelda and Horizon may be big open worlds adventure games, but both are approaching their game design approach from quite a different perspective. But despite that, both have looked pretty good thus far.

Excited for both.
 
Nightengale said:
Both Zelda and Horizon may be big open worlds adventure games, but both are approaching their game design approach from quite a different perspective. But despite that, both have looked pretty good thus far.

Excited for both.
Click to expand...

Very much so. I'm surprised people keep mentioning that both games have crafting when how they handle that can't be further from each other. Zelda's system is supposed to be experimental and surprising yet sensible and can only be properly done at specific locations that you discover.

Horizon uses a more simple menu based system (if you ask me is more rigid) that centers its currency in the crafting process and can be done at any time. Crafting is more of a balancing mechanism here.
 
Omnistalgic said:
meh, IMO, the scene with Varl and others are comparable to Witcher. Witcher is the best so far, but it's not leagues above, the best writing and acting is likely reserved for main campaigns and important quest, which we haven't seen yet.

The main character in Witcher sounds like he's trying so hard to sound "cool and edgy" like an action movie or wolverine.
Click to expand...

Are you really going to go after a persons voice? It's the Adam Jensen complaint.

"He sounds like his trying to sound all gruff eddgy and Batman like"
"You know it's his real voice right?"
"Oh Yeah? Well than he should have had another voice"
 
Domcorleone said:
In comparison to Witcher 3, yes. Every other recent RPG no and I have the receipts to prove it if you look above your post.
Click to expand...

Even with selected examples of thoses games to make it look as best as possible, it stays at mediocrity level...
And outisde trying to excuse it, don't tell me you are exited by what they show of game in this area.
they are lot of things to be exited in this game but that sure is not one.
 
martino said:
Even with selected examples of thoses games to make it look as better as possible, it stays at mediocrity level...
And outisde trying to excuse it, don't tell me you are exited by what they show of game in this area.
they are lot of things to be exited by in this game but that sure is not one.
Click to expand...
Which is funny considering a single cutscene from Horizon is being used as the basis for the entire game.
 
DriftingSpirit said:
Which is funny considering a single cutscene from Horizon is being used as the basis for the entire game.
Click to expand...

A really bad scene can color perception of the whole game. Particularly if its an early game quest.

I don't think the quality will actually be like this the whole game. But it does make me nervous for the sidequest quality and how much effort actually went into polishing the experience because otherwise all the quest offered was following a line and killing a couple enemies which is a stark contrast to something like the Cauldrons which seem like intensely designed combat challenges.
 
Neoleo2143 said:
Well, yeah the intro of the game features places that have less enemies because the player isn't equipped to take on larger groups. Surprise.

Immediately off the intro area when the player has most of their toolset, Enemies can be in groups of 10-12 and they all 1-3 shot Link.

They've consistently presented fundamentals of good world design such as 1. A Lack of Map Markers, forcing you to navigate by sight and actually thinking instead of simply following the objective marker to the next place where gameplay happens. 2. Developing a Loop of Exploration around the World design where the world itself piques the curiosity of the player in a naturalistic manner. 3. Inherently justifying nonlinearity by allowing the player to beat the game almost immediately. 4. A systemic focus to make nearly every aspect of the world have some other effect on gameplay which usually results in naturally varied gameplay.

It has the fundamentals of what would make a good open world. And the Great Plateau (the intro to the game) pretty much proved what sort of design this results in, tons of varied and satisfying gameplay.
Click to expand...

Neoleo2143 said:
It seems like it. That isn't actually the case though for the most part I feel because the world seems pretty good at naturally guiding the player. Plus there's a secret pretty much everywhere that doesn't obviously highlight itself. The game actually hides its content and asks you to come find it.

And well yeah, Zelda being less impressive on a technical level is pretty much fact.
Click to expand...

Neoleo2143 said:
Very much so. I'm surprised people keep mentioning that both games have crafting when how they handle that can't be further from each other. Zelda's system is supposed to be experimental and surprising yet sensible and can only be properly done at specific locations that you discover.

Horizon uses a more simple menu based system (if you ask me is more rigid) that centers its currency in the crafting process and can be done at any time. Crafting is more of a balancing mechanism here.
Click to expand...

Dude, no offense, but you should totally find work in PR. You have the speak down pat.

Have you actually played Breath of the Wild?
 
Neoleo2143 said:
A really bad scene can color perception of the whole game. Particularly if its an early game quest.

I don't think the quality will actually be like this the whole game. But it does make me nervous for the sidequest quality and how much effort actually went into polishing the experience because otherwise all the quest offered was following a line and killing a couple enemies.
Click to expand...
Sure, but that doesn't make it any less silly.

Huh? Haven't we heard about quest diversity in the previews? I haven't read any because of blackout but I'm sure I remember reading over something like that in this thread.
 
martino said:
Even with selected examples of thoses games to make it look as best as possible, it stays at mediocrity level...
And outisde trying to excuse it, don't tell me you are exited by what they show of game in this area.
they are lot of things to be exited in this game but that sure is not one.
Click to expand...

I'm not excited at all about the VA. I think the VA and animation is standard fare just like the aforementioned titles in my post. I didn't have to try to make it look best as possible, I've played all of the games except mass effect (obviously). Question is have you? And if you have, can you say honestly that Horizon's VA isn't in line with those games?

Don't feel you have to be contrarian for contrarians sake or double down on your opinion, anyone with eyes and ears can see they are all on par with one another. If you disagree, please tell me specifically what you disagree on and give examples within the games I mentioned. I'd prefer specifics rather than a simple reply to my post.

Thanks
 
Hoo-doo said:
Dude, no offense, but you should totally find work in PR. You have the speak down pat.

Have you actually played Breath of the Wild?
Click to expand...

Thank You, that's quite a compliment.

And No I haven't played the game. But it's pretty obvious to see the sort of design they have here to me at least. The moment the old man asked Link to scour the plateau, I was convinced that this sort of design was key to the game.

If I'm worried for weaknesses it's probably if they can keep up that level of variety and creativity throughout the game. And Difficulty like always.

I can break down Horizon too.

For example, it probably features probably the most advanced set of enemies I have seen in years. The enemy design looks Top notch particularly how different some enemies can behave and combine with each other like Watchers using blinding attacks and how Guerrilla seems to have combined these types together in encounters. If you've watched Mark Brown's Video on Doom's enemy design, it reminds me of that quite a lot.

It takes probably my favorite elements of Monster Hunter (breaking off enemy parts) and Blends them with a Traditional TPS control scheme. Very cool stuff. Plus Aloy is a nice return to a very classic protagonist type and a refreshing personality in the genre currently.

Plus that visual fidelity is incredible in terms of detail yet is still readable. Got to give them props for that.

Oh and I like how they handle healing in this game. It's a pretty interesting take on Regenerating health and feeds nicely into the scavenger aspects of the game in a way that I actually kinda like.

I know I'm being pretty harsh on the game in this thread, but it's because I think it can be even better than it is currently and as someone who is extremely excited for the game, I want to understand it like I try to understand every game I've played.
 
I went to pre order this on Amazon and it was $60. I'm a Prime member....I thought Amazon was selling games for $50 for Prime members.
 
Domcorleone said:
I'm not excited at all about the VA. I think the VA and animation is standard fare just like the aforementioned titles in my post. I didn't have to try to make it look best as possible, I've played all of the games except mass effect (obviously). Question is have you? And if you have, can you say honestly that Horizon's VA isn't in line with those games?

Don't feel you have to be contrarian for contrarians sake or double down on your opinion, anyone with eyes and ears can see they are all on par with one another. If you disagree, please tell me specifically what you disagree on and give examples within the games I mentioned. I'd prefer specifics rather than a simple reply to my post.

Thanks
Click to expand...

remeber my original post is "from dialog cutscene i fear the story will not pull me in."
And none of game you listed (outside witcher 3 , and i hope andromeda(but it will probably not)) has interested me for the story and storytelling.
Seems you're agree with me...but you try to excuse it because other are also mediocre...
 
Neoleo2143 said:
Thank You, that's quite a compliment.

And No I haven't played the game. But it's pretty obvious to see the sort of design they have here.

If I'm worried for weaknesses it's probably if they can keep up that level of variety and creativity throughout the game.

I can break down Horizon too.

For example, it probably features probably the most advanced set of enemies I have seen in years. The enemy design looks Top notch particularly how different some enemies can behave and combine with each other like Watchers using blinding attacks and how Guerrilla seems to have combined these types together in encounters. If you've watched Mark Brown's Video on Doom's enemy design, it reminds me of that quite a lot.

It takes probably my favorite elements of Monster Hunter (breaking off enemy parts) and Blends them with a Traditional TPS control scheme. Very cool stuff. Plus Aloy is a nice return to a very classic protagonist type and a refreshing personality in the genre currently.

Plus that visual fidelity is incredible in terms of detail yet is still readable. Got to give them props for that.
Click to expand...

Actually the biggest problem that BotW can face and one that all games that rely on a more sandbox experience and emergent gameplay based on player creativity using the interlocking gameplay systems. Basically the issue I have with games that don't pull the sandbox idea off well is that you can often find a couple ways that are the most efficient at doing what you need to do to progress and then never really seeing any reason to do anything else but those couple of things to get along, especially if the gameplay for all the different elements isn't that compelling in of itself.

The Assassins Creeds games are really bad at this. I remember figuring out that the berserk darts in AC Black Flag would almost always work on taking out a target either by getting them to go berserk or one of their nearby allies and I rarely used anything else as the actual hunting down of targets was rarely all that much fun to me. There were several other methods to do this but again, the were rarely fun or entertaining enough for me to bother after the first couple of times.

Not saying this will happen to BotW but its the biggest hurtle it faces and not one that is easily surmounted. Its Nintendo though and they seem to have their heads on straight in terms of vision, design and so on so I'm not that worried but its certainly an aspect of those games that can cause a lot of issues. Honestly Horizon faces much of the same issues despite not being the same exact kind of game.
 
Rap2thaMoon said:
Are you really going to go after a persons voice? It's the Adam Jensen complaint.

"He sounds like his trying to sound all gruff eddgy and Batman like"
"You know it's his real voice right?"
"Oh Yeah? Well than he should have had another voice"
Click to expand...
It doesn't sound like that's his natural speaking voice. It's not my fault media production has made his voice sound generic and cliche at this point. You aren't him lol, why are you so offended?
 
Domcorleone said:
Here are examples of animation, VA and dialogue in the most recent RPGs. I dont see how anyone who are fans of these games can say how its much different/better.

Witcher 3 is clearly the best. The others? Not so much in comparison to Horizon. Curious to see what you guys think.

Witcher 3

https://youtu.be/iZGLcuH3OGc?t=39s

Final Fantasy XV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwYOwqAhCI

Dragon Age Inquisition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKS2GYlrWLg

Mass Effect Andromeda

https://youtu.be/NOIzH6UcoW4?t=1m28s

Horizon Zero Dawn

https://youtu.be/oKIEeglflfQ?t=18m20s

https://youtu.be/V07RU1SwZyo?t=8m40s

Fallout 4 LOL

https://youtu.be/qYqKZy1BD8w?t=38s
Click to expand...

Great comment - I'll admit I may have initially over-reacted to some of the less flattering videos out there. I still maintain the writing is a little below par, but he animation does appear to be inkeeping with current trends. It's just hard after TW3, which is a step above, to go back to this kind of woodeness.
 
HStallion said:
Actually the biggest problem that BotW can face and one that all games that rely on a more sandbox experience and emergent gameplay based on player creativity using the interlocking gameplay systems. Basically the issue I have with games that don't pull the sandbox idea off well is that you can often find a couple ways that are the most efficient at doing what you need to do to progress and then never really seeing any reason to do anything else but those couple of things to get along, especially if the gameplay for all the different elements isn't that compelling in of itself.

The Assassins Creeds games are really bad at this. I remember figuring out that the berserk darts in AC Black Flag would almost always work on taking out a target either by getting them to go berserk or one of their nearby allies and I rarely used anything else as the actual hunting down of targets was rarely all that much fun to me. There were several other methods to do this but again, the were rarely fun or entertaining enough for me to bother after the first couple of times.

Not saying this will happen to BotW but its the biggest hurtle it faces and not one that is easily surmounted. Its Nintendo though and they seem to have their heads on straight in terms of vision, design and so on so I'm not that worried but its certainly an aspect of those games that can cause a lot of issues. Honestly Horizon faces much of the same issues despite not being the same exact kind of game.
Click to expand...

I'd say that pursuing Efficiency is an issue across all games. How can you make the most efficient path interesting is a question that every game designer faces and there's tons of answers to that question (Including ignoring Optimization). That's why we have balancing mechanisms. In BotW, that's the specific range of weapons like Bows and bombs, the relative difficulty of Stealth, Durability and the gear system, and how the most creative tools in the game are Runes and they also use the least Resources.

In Horizon, that's the Currency System and the skill trees and Healing system.

This is also why I'm generally apprehensive towards Skill trees and EXP because it's really damn hard to balance for them (either to make them interesting or avoid making them OP) unless you make it like Deus Ex HR and break it up into specific sections of gameplay that intend a specific playstyle.
 
Omnistalgic said:
Yeah agreed, it makes for rewarding gameplay to find secrets and stuff, but I hope it's not so obscure that you need a forum like GAF to figure out how to unlock the best swords/shields and stuff, lol. Souls series push the envelop sometimes with the secrets. Surprisingly, looks like Horizon has this too though with the Cauldrons, very very happy GG has taken inspiration from seemingly gameplay-focused experiences like MH, Souls, Zelda, etc...
Click to expand...

Yeah they've chosen some great stuff to take inspiration from.

Also Zoids for the fantastic robot dinos. :)
 
Omnistalgic said:
meh, IMO, the scene with Varl and others are comparable to Witcher. Witcher is the best so far, but it's not leagues above, the best writing and acting is likely reserved for main campaigns and important quest, which we haven't seen yet.

The main character in Witcher sounds like he's trying so hard to sound "cool and edgy" like an action movie or wolverine.
Click to expand...

The thing is, Geralt is cool and edgy, he's the personification of cool even. He's perfected it over 100 years of Witchering, he could also deal to Wolverine.

Geralt and Aloy may be my 2 favourite RPG protags soon (after Shep 1.0, obviously).
 
Hoo-doo said:
Dude, no offense, but you should totally find work in PR. You have the speak down pat.

Have you actually played Breath of the Wild?
Click to expand...

Evidently he's finished playthroughs of both BotW and H:ZD. Maybe we can borrow his time machine? I'd like to go back and make some choice investments.
 
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