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[chaosmaster(1)]

I think they're just pulling out for this gen cause most of the people who would've bought a console for exclusives would've bought one early in the gen. Most the new ips are flopping for them, I think they'll try again early next gen.

 

[Figments]

I'm curious what you guys think of Jason Schreier's tweets from earlier today. Do you agree that Microsoft should be positioning the Xbox brand much differently, rather than trying to compete directly with Sony?

I think Jason is reducing competition to some kind of weird binary of "these are the games that matter" and "these are the ones that don't".

It's great that Horizon turned out to be amazing, but it isn't reflective of how Microsoft SHOULD be approaching the market. I feel like a broken record at this point, whenever I say this, but it's what I believe.

The singleplayer games segment is something Microsoft has always tried to chase after, and if you were to ask me whether or not Microsoft can compete in that sector on the same level as Sony, then I'd honestly tell you no. They can't. Every major singleplayer game they've released in the past several years has either been a critical dud or a massive sales flop. To their credit, the company does genuinely try to get the ball rolling, but no one is buying any of it, even the stuff that's arguably good.

That's not what people play on Xbox for. Xbox IS multiplayer gaming, and Microsoft's strategy should revolve around cultivating that further and expanding their portfolio in ways that both highlight this strength and diversify their lineup. They should be looking at games like Splatoon and saying to themselves, "That's what we should've done."

Why? Because Sony has historically failed to compete in this area.

Sony doesn't have their Halo.
Sony doesn't have their Gears of War.
Sony doesn't have their Killer Instinct.
Sony doesn't have their own annualized staple racing series that's as successful as Forza.

Et cetera, et cetera.

This is Microsoft's strength--always has been, and always will be. They should focus on looking at ways to create NEW multiplayer experiences that are EXCLUSIVE to their own ecosystem, like they're doing by delving once more into console RTS with Halo Wars 2, or an open world pirating game like Sea of Thieves. And they need to hype the ever-loving shit out of them, because this is what the vast majority of people look to play on Xbox.

And I think they're sort of right in leveraging third party to fill the gap in singleplayer experiences that they lack. But that doesn't excuse not attempting to create a singleplayer that has both relevance to and is supported by a robust multiplayer offering. Release a game's multiplayer first, for example, and use the funds gained from that to create an optional singleplayer campaign later on as paid or free DLC, on top of improving said multiplayer. That should've been a staple of this generation by now, but it isn't, because God knows why.

In any case, I think it's alright to acknowledge that Jason is coming at this from a fair point of view, but I don't think he advocates for what actual competition looks like, just more of "Sony has this, why doesn't Microsoft have this too?" Actual competition is competing on the merits of your strengths, and using them to patch up your weaknesses or even repurpose those weaknesses to highlight your strengths. That's how you win generations, that's how you sell consoles, not by simply creating the same shit the other guys do.

 

[BoxyBrown]

I think Jason is reducing competition to some kind of weird binary of "these are the games that matter" and "these are the ones that don't".

It's great that Horizon turned out to be amazing, but it isn't reflective of how Microsoft SHOULD be approaching the market. I feel like a broken record at this point, whenever I say this, but it's what I believe.

The singleplayer games segment is something Microsoft has always tried to chase after, and if you were to ask me whether or not Microsoft can compete in that sector on the same level as Sony, then I'd honestly tell you no. They can't. Every major singleplayer game they've released in the past several years has either been a critical dud or a massive sales flop. To their credit, the company does genuinely try to get the ball rolling, but no one is buying any of it, even the stuff that's arguably good.

That's not what people play on Xbox for. Xbox IS multiplayer gaming, and Microsoft's strategy should revolve around cultivating that further and expanding their portfolio in ways that both highlight this strength and diversify their lineup. They should be looking at games like Splatoon and saying to themselves, "That's what we should've done."

Why? Because Sony has historically failed to compete in this area.

Sony doesn't have their Halo.
Sony doesn't have their Gears of War.
Sony doesn't have their Killer Instinct.
Sony doesn't have their own annualized staple racing series that's as successful as Forza.

Et cetera, et cetera.

This is Microsoft's strength--always has been, and always will be. They should focus on looking at ways to create NEW multiplayer experiences that are EXCLUSIVE to their own ecosystem, like they're doing by delving once more into console RTS with Halo Wars 2, or an open world pirating game like Sea of Thieves. And they need to hype the ever-loving shit out of them, because this is what the vast majority of people look to play on Xbox.

And I think they're sort of right in leveraging third party to fill the gap in singleplayer experiences that they lack. But that doesn't excuse not attempting to create a singleplayer that has both relevance to and is supported by a robust multiplayer offering. Release a game's multiplayer first, for example, and use the funds gained from that to create an optional singleplayer campaign later on as paid or free DLC, on top of improving said multiplayer. That should've been a staple of this generation by now, but it isn't, because God knows why.

In any case, I think it's alright to acknowledge that Jason is coming at this from a fair point of view, but I don't think he advocates for what actual competition looks like, just more of "Sony has this, why doesn't Microsoft have this too?" Actual competition is competing on the merits of your strengths, and using them to patch up your weaknesses or even repurpose those weaknesses to highlight your strengths. That's how you win generations, that's how you sell consoles, not by simply creating the same shit the other guys do.

Sony has a game that isn't annualized and is WILDLY more successful than Forza.

 

[Figments]

Sony has a game that isn't annualized and is WILDLY more successful than Forza.

I guess you could reduce my whole argument down to one sentence, but I intended to discuss, not to be weird about it.

 

[LordBaztion]

I'm curious what you guys think of Jason Schreier's tweets from earlier today. Do you agree that Microsoft should be positioning the Xbox brand much differently, rather than trying to compete directly with Sony?

for a big chunk of the last gen, MS exclusives where better than Sony's. I think they need the right partners people who know how to handle the business. If they invest enough, the can do it however, their focus seems to he elsewhere.
Regarding the valve approach, I agree, Scorpio shouldn't just be an updated Xbox One, it needs to bring changes to the console ecosystem, make it more similar to PC.
For example, want to compete with PSVR? Partner with Oculus, make the Oculus Store avaliable on Xbox One and allow the Win32 apps to run on the console. Or something like that, I suppose it is way more difficult.
Mods integrated at a system level would he nice too.
MS needs to think forward and disrupt the market like they did with online gaming.

 

[SneakersSO]

They are already doing it. Their upcoming slate and games for the past 2 years are already transitioning to a service model. I don't think they are trying to compete with Sony at all. If they were we'd be seeing more scalebounds and stuff like horizon. Here's the thing, what MS is doing isn't sexy or the games aren't going to be lauded as the best thing ever but they are going after a segment that really isn't represented on message boards or your not gonna see Schrier talking about etc. like does anyone talk about H1Z1 or ark or Conan etc

Except, those consumers are being better served by a ton of other developers. To say that the service-model game market is becoming oversaturated is a big understatement, especially when several games, increasingly moreso in the AAA space, are hitting that model & hard, as opposed to it being primarily an indie & upstart affair for a long time. This is sorta why Sony & Nintendo haven't made that pivot - everyone is going to be fighting over the audience that wants those kind of experiences, so it just pays off more to make your platform appear more robust by focusing on creating experiences which no one else is offering, which just so happen to be cheaper to produce than those service-model games.

The problem with MS' hard pivot to service-games isn't that its a bad decision, just that their execution so far is awful. Fable Legends could've been a great first step in this, but it got canned and left by the way side. Sea of Thieves just doesn't seem to have an interesting enough gameplay loop or interconnected gameplay systems to really branch outside of the dedicated Xbox audience (which you can tell, since audience engagement across the spectrum for social media sites is easily one of the lowest for a Triple-A game right now). And while several upcoming projects from their 1st party teams are going to be more oriented towards the service model, just how much of that will come by way of sacrificing what some of the core Xbox audience wants from those series?

Personally, I would've been more interested in MS tried, instead, to purchase a studio or team who already had or was pursuing a project of this nature, and giving them the resources to amplify their content creation, similar to Mojang/Minecraft.

As for the speculation on several titles that are unannounced yet still due this year - I mean, we already know of a few (new Forza, new Ori) that are technically unannounced and still coming this year. Those are going to be big E3 announcements.

 

[Dabanton]

Forget about positioning, if they want to continue to play ball they need to show more software. Sony is just hitting its stride with multiple AAA and varied titles dropping in the next two years and Nintendo will be showing off more titles this June letting gamers know they have AAA content for the foreseeable future.

Spoiler

It starts and ends with software.

On one hand that would give them more breathing room but personally. I hate, hate hate devs showing games they know are at least a year and a half away that serves no purpose to me as a gamer. 6 months I can stomach as I know it will hit this year.

I agree though software is the key. I do hope MS has been using their time wisely. For me the Scorpio is not going to reverse this gens results, but the Scorpio can certainly act as a disruptor. Being able to say with confidence that you have the most powerful console will hopefully give MS some of their swagger back.

 

[Sydle]

I agree that MS needs to do something disruptive, but I just don't see it happening. The Xbox team seems more risk averse than ever.

I like Jason's suggestion. I'd seriously consider putting my PC refresh on hold and look at buying a Scorpio if it had Steam access. I can't imagine MS allowing it, but I think it's the most disruptive and consumer friendly thing they could do, just embracing the openness of the Windows 10 platform.

 

[Figments]

Except, those consumers are being better served by a ton of other developers. To say that the service-model game market is becoming oversaturated is a big understatement, especially when several games, increasingly moreso in the AAA space, are hitting that model & hard, as opposed to it being primarily an indie & upstart affair for a long time. This is sorta why Sony & Nintendo haven't made that pivot - everyone is going to be fighting over the audience that wants those kind of experiences, so it just pays off more to make your platform appear more robust by focusing on creating experiences which no one else is offering, which just so happen to be cheaper to produce than those service-model games.

The problem with MS' hard pivot to service-games isn't that its a bad decision, just that their execution so far is awful. Fable Legends could've been a great first step in this, but it got canned and left by the way side. Sea of Thieves just doesn't seem to have an interesting enough gameplay loop or interconnected gameplay systems to really branch outside of the dedicated Xbox audience (which you can tell, since audience engagement across the spectrum for social media sites is easily one of the lowest for a Triple-A game right now). And while several upcoming projects from their 1st party teams are going to be more oriented towards the service model, just how much of that will come by way of sacrificing what some of the core Xbox audience wants from those titles?

Personally, I would've been more interested in MS tried, instead, to purchase a studio or team who already had or was pursuing a project of this nature, and giving them the resources to amplify their content creation, similar to Mojang/Minecraft.

The only ones capable of showing off what your service can do, what your system can do, has always been the ones who create it. This is a segment that Microsoft can do well in, given the right amount of effort, and be an overall benefit to the perception of their lineup.

You are correct in saying that there are arguably too many cooks in the service model kitchen right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that participating in this trend is a waste of time. The "experiences that no one else is offering" that you say Microsoft should look to be making, are already on offer by many other developers--most of them third party. Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, et cetera--there are also many people with their hands in the singleplayer pie. Yet you still see Sony going for it, you still see Nintendo going for it. Suddenly Microsoft chooses to focus on service-model multiplayer and it's a bad thing? I...don't really buy it.

And you are also correct, in some respects, that some of their efforts so far have been lackluster. However, they have also seen success in this area, as well. Killer Instinct has grown immensely popular--more so than most people thought it would--in the fighting game community, Halo 5's multiplayer updates--despite some level of fair criticism--remain popular and sought after. Et cetera.

Your example of Sea of Thieves being a failure is certainly weird, though, considering it's not even out yet, and they still have a lot to show before release.

Microsoft shouldn't be looking to purchase studios--they should be looking at expanding the development capacities of the ones they currently have to either branch out into new directions with IPs they're already handling, or even create new IPs altogether.

Spoiler

Personally I favor the former, but that's just me.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I honestly don't know what Microsoft and Xbox can do moving forward to excite an enthusiast like myself. During Nintendo's darkest hours, they still had some stellar software to get people excited. The only thing that Xbox has right now that excites me is 360 backwards compatibility (well, and Cuphead, but I've kind of thrown my hands up at this point regarding that game). I hope they can really wow me and others at this E3. The cancellation of Scalebound really burned me.

 

[SneakersSO]

The only ones capable of showing off what your service can do, what your system can do, has always been the ones who create it. This is a segment that Microsoft can do well in, given the right amount of effort, and be an overall benefit to the perception of their lineup.

You are correct in saying that there are arguably too many cooks in the service model kitchen right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that participating in this trend is a waste of time. The "experiences that no one else is offering" that you say Microsoft should look to be making, are already on offer by many other developers--most of them third party. Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, et cetera--there are also many people with their hands in the singleplayer pie. Yet you still see Sony going for it, you still see Nintendo going for it. Suddenly Microsoft chooses to focus on service-model multiplayer and it's a bad thing? I...don't really buy it.

And you are also correct, in some respects, that some of their efforts so far have been lackluster. However, they have also seen success in this area, as well. Killer Instinct has grown immensely popular--more so than most people thought it would--in the fighting game community, Halo 5's multiplayer updates--despite some level of fair criticism--remain popular and sought after. Et cetera.

Your example of Sea of Thieves being a failure is certainly weird, though, considering it's not even out yet, and they still have a lot to show before release.

Microsoft shouldn't be looking to purchase studios--they should be looking at expanding the development capacities of the ones they currently have to either branch out into new directions with IPs they're already handling, or even create new IPs altogether.

Spoiler

Personally I favor the former, but that's just me.

Microsoft should ABSOLUTELY be looking to open & fund new studios. Their largest problem has been, with the tightening of their division's budget, that they close pipelines & projects and do not replace it with anything. I wasn't calling Sea of Thieves a failure, just that every market trend right now for it indicates it will not make the splash (pun intended) a service game needs to make in order for it to succeed, either in the short term or long term.

You're claiming that 3rd party is filling the role in their lineup, except its the exact opposite - in the last round of earnings call, every publisher basically indicated that they are going to be pursuing service games almost exclusively, with a few exceptions. You named several titles which we go several years without seeing an entry in them (Fallout, Tomb Raider, Mass Effect) and after this next round of entries, we can't really say when more SP focused gaming is coming, particularly those that are exploring new ideas. Meanwhile, Ubisoft is looking at The Division, For Honor, R6 Siege, and saying those games are going to be their primary focus going forward. EA will be doing the same thing with their titles outside of Bioware, and the next major IP from Bioware is a service game!

Btw, KI is not an indicator of popularity, especially in regards to the FGC - the last EVO charity drive in particular was indication enough (if the no. of viewers for its bigger tournament events wasn't already a sign) that KI has always been niche. Its not a big draw, just served a nice fighting game alternative for the platform between NRS releases.

There aren't anywhere near as many people with their hands in the SP pie on Xbox as you think. It comes in waves, for sure, but SP games are entering a recession, and this trend is likely going to continue. Last year was basically a wake up call to the industry - several SP games or modes got snubbed, while service games thrived. This occurred at pretty much every 3rd party publisher. In a year where Dishonored 2, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, ROTR (PC/PS4), Watch_Dogs 2 & Quantum Break all failed to sell well, while several service games basically dominated the fiscal landscape, it is no surprise that every 3rd party publisher is going to be creating more & more of those games going forward. Thats why MS producing more of these service games just isn't a great idea, at least not exclusively catering to creating games of that type, especially not as a corporate mandate. A smart MS publishing arm would probably try to create a new studio or two and have them deliver some high-quality service titles, not take each & every one of their pipelines and try to make them deliver these games or cram aspects of service model in well-established franchises.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

I think it would be best if MS invested more in smaller projects along the lines of Ori. Could be a great chance to diversify their lineup without taking huge financial risks.

I'm also disappointed to see how risk averse they have been recently. Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break (my favourite third person shooter of 2016) have been some of my favourite games, and it is such a shame to me that they'll likely never get sequels.

Also, I've said it before, but I still can't believe MS hasn't invested in a proper WRPG. It's one of the genre's that defined the original Xbox and the 360. Horizon looks great, so you have to wonder what they must be thinking now.

 

[Wedzi]

Phil indirectly responded to Jason's comments.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/833892658682605569
Interesting how he describes it as their best yet. No idea what metrics he's basing that off of.

Plus a whole bunch of other tweets too. I'm guessing he has a few fires to put out.

 

[Salty Hippo]

They could fight with Sony on the exclusives front and win if they didn't have a CEO this clueless about the gaming market and a spineless, pathological liar as head of their gaming division. They deserve to be in this position and I'm glad journalists are finally starting to call them out on their incompetence and lack of commitment.

 

[SneakersSO]

Phil indirectly responded to Jason's comments.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/833892658682605569
Interesting how he describes it as their best yet. No idea what metrics he's basing that off of.

Plus a whole bunch of other tweets too. I'm guessing he has a few fires to put out.

The X1 is their strongest generation? Okay, what universe is Phil Spencer living in?

 

[VanCityGamer]

Phil indirectly responded to Jason's comments.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/833892658682605569
Interesting how he describes it as their best yet. No idea what metrics he's basing that off of.

Plus a whole bunch of other tweets too. I'm guessing he has a few fires to put out.

Phil thinks the XB1 gen has been better than the XB360 gen games/exclusives wise? I don't agree with that at all.

 

[Ricerocket]

Phil indirectly responded to Jason's comments.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/833892658682605569

Plus a whole bunch of other tweets too. I'm guessing he has a few fires to put out.

Jason was clearly talking about games since his tweet started because of the games recently coming out only on PS4 but Phil replies with XBone S to refute it makes it seem like there isn't much else he can say.

 

[Wedzi]

The X1 is their strongest generation? Okay, what universe is Phil Spencer living in?

Also said something along the lines of Xbox gamers demanding a lot and how it usually gets louder when good games ship on other platforms.

I sure hope this is just marketing speak and he actually sees the holes in Xbox's first party lineup or the rest of this generation is gonna be rough first party wise

 

[SneakersSO]

Also said something along the lines of Xbox gamers demanding a lot and how it usually gets louder when good games ship on other platforms.

I sure hope this is just marketing speak and he actually sees the holes in Xbox's first party lineup or the rest of this generation is gonna be rough first party wise

I know he sees the holes, theres just not a whole lot he can do about it. His hands are tied, so to speak. I understand he has to handwave away criticism to the brand, but Jason isn't wrong, and unless MS is coming out with a ton of studio announcements & IPs they are pursuing that we don't already know about despite the fact these games aren't announced, then this isn't going to get better after E3 & the Scorpio unveil.

 

[Hatefilled Vengeance]

I know it wont happen, but I want to live in the alternate universe where SSO was a bigger hit and we're getting a sequel. At least we'll most likely be getting Ori 2.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Also, I've said it before, but I still can't believe MS hasn't invested in a proper WRPG. It's one of the genre's that defined the original Xbox and the 360. Horizon looks great, so you have to wonder what they must be thinking now.

Not only did I just order Horizon, but I switched my preorder for Mass Effect to PS4 because I figure the PS4 Pro graphics will be a lot more solid than on X1. Normally I'd go X1 because of the superior controller, not minding that the PS4 graphics would be a bit better.

The WRPG thing is a big deal, they need to be on it.

 

[Rymuth]

The X1 is their strongest generation? Okay, what universe is Phil Spencer living in?

Same universe wherein he called a lineup consisting of Tomb Raider (a multi platform game) and two cancelled games the, and I quote, 'strongest line-up in Xbox history'

Eat your heart out, Xbox 360!

 

[Bgamer90]

I'm curious what you guys think of Jason Schreier's tweets from earlier today. Do you agree that Microsoft should be positioning the Xbox brand much differently, rather than trying to compete directly with Sony?

It's his opinion based on his gaming tastes. 2017 is the first year in which I feel the PS4 has a better lineup than the Xbox One this gen though MS saving releases around the Scorpio plays a role in that. Both systems have been pretty even overall in terms of console exclusives I'm personally interested in -- especially considering the PS4 has been very weak for racing games outside of Driveclub. Definitely understandable how people that greatly prefer single player titles preferred the PS4 for these past few years though.

Xbox will never have the same worldwide appeal as the PlayStation brand unless Sony screws up. MS needs new IPs and they are coming, though as others have stated, MS is definitely more risk averse. You would never see a Knack 2 situation from MS. I think we will see many new IPs in the digital space from MS with some eventually turning into retail releases based on feedback (thus turning into notable Xbox series). I think games like Ori and State of Decay set the a trend for this with MS. Their new bigger budget IPs will probably follow the trend of Ubisoft games and focus more on multiplayer and downloadable content over the course of 2+ years.

Xbox is catering to the markets that the brand is already doing solid in with the Scorpio. The Scorpio isn't going to attract PlayStation heavy markets much. Scorpio's goal is to get things closer to where the Xbox's position was with the 360 in these territories and I think that's pretty much it. I'm not expecting some major innovative feature. Just a console with the best running multiplats and Xbox console exclusives, and better/new marketing.

The "I can play these games on PC" stuff has always been silly to me considering the PS4 and Xbox One are primarily selling thanks to multiplat titles available on PC. I'll never understand it. Doesn't hurt either console at all in my opinion.

 

[SamNW]

It's his opinion based on his gaming tastes. 2017 is the first year in which I feel the PS4 has a better lineup than the Xbox One this gen though MS saving releases around the Scorpio plays a role in that. Both systems have been pretty even overall in terms of console exclusives I'm personally interested in -- especially considering the PS4 has been very weak for racing games outside of Driveclub. Definitely understandable how people that greatly prefer single player titles preferred the PS4 for these past few years though.

I don't think that Schreier is making a case based on any one person's taste or opinion. He's making a business argument. He's saying that Sony's stable of first-party studios, second-party relationships, and exclusive third-party support makes it basically impossible for Microsoft to remain competitive on the software side of the games business. In my opinion, it's pretty hard to argue with that point. There is no doubt that some proportion of consumers that will be unmoved by the advantages Sony has, but broadly speaking, Microsoft can only plausibly be said to have an advantage in two domains: multiplayer shooters and racing games.¹

The primary argument here is not "Sony's exclusives are better, pound-for-pound," but rather, "Sony has so many exclusives that it's hard to imagine Microsoft competing in that realm."

–––––––
¹ And even here, Sony is trying to close the gap. They're co-marketing Call of Duty and Destiny—two of the biggest MP shooters on the market—to try and compensate for their lack of exclusives in the genre. GT Sport will likely be out this summer, giving them something to put up against Forza.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

I dont get Jason's comments? Does he mean cause MS dont have Horizon then they should give up or start again and even if they did have a Horizon then they would just put guns in it or something?

Was he smoking some good shit last night or what

Edit: Sneakers giving us the hot take straight out of Redmond again . . . . .

 

[Bgamer90]

I don't think that Schreier is making a case based on any one person's taste or opinion. He's making a business argument. He's saying that Sony's stable of first-party studios, second-party relationships, and exclusive third-party support makes it basically impossible for Microsoft to remain competitive on the software side of the games business. In my opinion, it's pretty hard to argue with that point. There is no doubt that some proportion of consumers that will be unmoved by the advantages Sony has, but broadly speaking, Microsoft can only plausibly be said to have an advantage in two domains: multiplayer shooters and racing games.¹

The primary argument here is not "Sony's exclusives are better, pound-for-pound," but rather, "Sony has so many exclusives that it's hard to imagine Microsoft competing in that realm."

–––––––
¹ And even here, Sony is trying to close the gap. They're co-marketing Call of Duty and Destiny—two of the biggest MP shooters on the market—to try and compensate for their lack of exclusives in the genre. GT Sport will likely be out this summer, giving them something to put up against Forza.

Sony would be in their current position even without their exclusives though which is why I saw it as an opinion. Third party games are pushing consoles the most. Exclusives definitely help but they aren't being bought in large numbers as they were previously unless they are part of already long running series. Microsoft will stay competitive in their best markets (e.g.: North America) via making a solid console with solid games and good marketing. More exclusives wouldn't put the system in PS4's worldwide territory since many areas will simply never be interested in the Xbox. That was evident last gen when the PS3 was struggling. It's definitely the case now with how well the PS4's doing.

Not saying that they shouldn't try making new IPs (they are) -- it's more so to simply say that new exclusives wouldn't really help Microsoft's position for Xbox.

 

[FelipeMGM]

Phil indirectly responded to Jason's comments.
https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/833892658682605569
Interesting how he describes it as their best yet. No idea what metrics he's basing that off of.

Plus a whole bunch of other tweets too. I'm guessing he has a few fires to put out.

yeah, its tweets like this that sometimes makes you agree with Salty Hippo

X360 was a juggernaut in every front, one of the best consoles ever even with the small slowdown in the last couple years of its life. He cant truly think the XB1 is better

 

[Dynasty]

yeah, its tweets like this that sometimes makes you agree with Salty Hippo

X360 was a juggernaut in every front, one of the best consoles ever even with the small slowdown in the last couple years of its life. He cant truly think the XB1 is better

At the same time he cant say they are doing worse.

 

[blakep267]

I dont get Jason's comments? Does he mean cause MS dont have Horizon then they should give up or start again and even if they did have a Horizon then they would just put guns in it or something?

Was he smoking some good shit last night or what

Edit: Sneakers giving us the hot take straight out of Redmond again . . . . .

That's what I took it as. Like if you read his further tweets it sounds straight up warrior ish. He clarified to mean since we have games like Nioh Persona and now Horizon ended up being good and the Xbox games are all on PC, why even bother anymore.

I'm like those games are great but I don't think it automatically means MS failed and needs to go back to he drawing board. It's not as if people hate what they put out

I mean I know the game just came out and he's probably riding high but you're dismissing everythibgbthe xbix has done for the last 3 years to not having Persona or Horizon to doom

 

[kmg90]

The X1 is their strongest generation? Okay, what universe is Phil Spencer living in?

Alternative generation universe

 

[Nightengale]

If you're a fan of Japanese games, Xbox as a platform has failed to be competitive in the past 2 years by virtue of extensive 3rd-party support.

And with Sony first-party ramping up since last year w/UC4, Ratchet, etc, on top of the notably higher quality Japanese games that critics are paying significantly more attention to compared to 2016's lineup, someone like Jason whose taste lean in those kind of games will naturally feel that Xbox has lost the edge.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

They could fight with Sony on the exclusives front and win if they didn't have a CEO this clueless about the gaming market and a spineless, pathological liar as head of their gaming division. They deserve to be in this position and I'm glad journalists are finally starting to call them out on their incompetence and lack of commitment.

I feel like MS could be in a better position but I also think "fighting with Sony" isn't something they should actively be doing. That is a losing battle. That isn't a shot against MS and their potential with software either. It is more that Sony's myriad of third party relations combined with their first party studios is just too much to compete with. It would take a drastic shift in those relations (whether that means a falling out with Sony and/or a surge in MS relations) for MS to really compete.

As such, I don't think MS needs to be looking at this in that way. They just need to do better than what they are currently doing and make sensible long term goals. Leave Sony out of it and let them do their thing.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

Phil Spencer living on mars.

He's left the planet

 

[MeisterLeder]

The X1 is their strongest generation? Okay, what universe is Phil Spencer living in?

To me the games coming this year if we dont count a delay are way better than the PS stuff. I love that almost everything from MS can be played in COOP which gives this games way more value.

Couldnt care less about Horizon. If i wanna hunt animals and loot pointless stuff i can play FarCry.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

To me the games coming this year if we dont count a delay or cancellation are way better than the PS stuff. I love that almost everything from MS can be played in COOP which gives this games way more value.

Couldnt care less about Horizon. If i wanna hunt animals and loot pointless stuff i can play FarCry.

Fixd for you.

 

[zeexlash]

Phil Spencer thinks this is Xbox's best generation so far - that has to be a thread-worthy headline.

Tough argument to make when you compare the Halo and Gears games to prior ones. Or look at the collapse of Kinect and closure of Lionhead. Still waiting on that Rare resurgence.

There have of course been positives too - the exclusive lineup overall isn't bad on Xbox One, Forza Horizon has come into its own and BC was a great move.

But best generation so far? Not even close.

 

[bennibop]

Really think Phil Spencer is delusional and has only been marginally better than Don Mattick. The lack of games especially new ips has been particularly daming and launching a new console is not going rectify this. What also concerns me is they drop the Xbox One lick a brick when they release the Scorpio as they did with xbox and the 360 and continue the cycle and us games get stung.

Backwards compatability is great but its is an attempt to disguise a weak software library, why would I use it when my time is spent playing PS4 exclusives and in a few weeks Switch exclusives

 

[Chobel]

Xbox is having a good gen, our best yet.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

There's a definite shift in tone between this thread and the PlayStation Developers thread, lol.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I mean, by MS' own new official metrics (MAUs, digital content purchases) this may very well BE their best gen ever, even if we don't really feel that way, lol.

There's a definite shift in tone between this thread and the PlayStation Developers thread, lol.

I mean, between the general lack of output, the recent bad news, and GAF's general PS favoritism (on average GAF is not a hivemind there is no conspiracy more disclaimers), are you really surprised?

 

[shingi70]

Microsoft was always going to be hurt by the way Japanese developers have done business. Ni-oh, Persona, and Tales aren't first party titles but they're essential exclusives due to how Japanese developers ignore multi platform development alot of the time.

That said I do think Microsoft needs to do a better job for the future of having a mix of Single and multi player games.

I did think it was intresting that Recore giot shit in for Jank, but in other cases people talk about how much they love the euro Jank.

 

[Shin-Ra]

It's his opinion based on his gaming tastes. 2017 is the first year in which I feel the PS4 has a better lineup than the Xbox One this gen though MS saving releases around the Scorpio plays a role in that.

Saving releases around the launch of a new console isn't the strategy of a platform holder trying to blur the lines between console generations, even if those games do release on XBO.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Also, I've said it before, but I still can't believe MS hasn't invested in a proper WRPG. It's one of the genre's that defined the original Xbox and the 360. Horizon looks great, so you have to wonder what they must be thinking now.

GG has been working on Horizon since 2010/2011. Back then, it was just pre-production type stuff but yeah. It takes a huge amount of time to pull something like this off. A ton of time, money and focus during development. Huge risk. If Horizon doesn't hit commercially (it will but yeah), it would devastate GG.

So, while I would like MS to have an equivalent of their own, I get why they don't.

 

[OttoSporteman]

Phil Spencer thinks this is Xbox's best generation so far - that has to be a thread-worthy headline.

It all comes down to the criteria.

Xbox and Xbox 360 were being sold at a loss.
Xbox 360 was the dominant platform for a long time but ended up losing worldwide to Ps3 anyway, due to PlayStation brand being stronger everywhere else but US.

If he's using revenue, units and margin as KPI's perhaps he is right? Xbox One was not sold at a loss since launch, has been selling more units than 360 at same point in lifecycles for several straight months and revenue increase from Dlc and Xbox Live may matter to the math. Remember that all R&D costs of Xbox Live were probably recouped by now but still a hassle during 360 years.

If he's speaking first party output or even brand awareness, than he is delusional.

But I think he's using my first option.

 

[SneakersSO]

It all comes down to the criteria.

Xbox and Xbox 360 were being sold at a loss.
Xbox 360 was the dominant platform for a long time but ended up losing worldwide to Ps3 anyway, due to PlayStation brand being stronger everywhere else but US.

If he's using revenue, units and margin as KPI's perhaps he is right? Xbox One was not sold at a loss since launch, has been selling more units than 360 at same point in lifecycles for several straight months and revenue increase from Dlc and Xbox Live may matter to the math. Remember that all R&D costs of Xbox Live were probably recouped by now but still a hassle during 360 years.

If he's speaking first party output or even brand awareness, than he is delusional.

But I think he's using my first option.

From a strictly revenue generated point of view, yes, they are generating more revenue now than they ever have. I also know that the cost of them doing their business is significantly higher than it was in generations past. They aren't necessarily unique in that aspect; everyone in the game's industry costs' went up this generation. Its just that with MS, the deals they signed and how much they sunk into R&D or cancelled projects, and the upkeep of maintaining support for the XBL platform and its services across the board, their net profit margins get eaten into quite a bit, not to mention that they are now selling the X1 S at a loss thanks to its UHD player.

But its MS, so its not like the Xbox division is ever going to go out of business due to lack of funding. They just have pressure, which is understandable, to produce returns in line with how much MS sinks into their operational cost year after year. Its why so much pressure is now being put on their internal studios to convert & adopt service-games business models for some of their most critical franchises, not to mention the lengths they are going to go for any new endeavor that has grown above a certain scope (downloadable titles like Ori are safe, thanks to their smaller dev teams and lower production costs).

Still, this isn't their greatest generation by any imaginable metric. They're producing more revenue than they ever have, but they are shredding their margins just to stay competitive, and they still lose in sales volume in the console market in the only 2 regions the Xbox brand is even relevant in (NA & UK). Even past the business side & revenue generated, the Xbox brand overall is probably at the weakest point its ever been since the OG Xbox; the new IP they do explore all underperform, which isn't helped by the fact that the increased production costs & MS' unreasonable sales expectations has put pins in new franchises that are just begging for sequels, and some of the Xbox brand'ss biggest power houses (Gears, Halo) are a mere shadow of the market power they used to wield not even half-a-decade ago. And to top it all off, the only real quantifiable metric for success they could tout, that they were selling more X1s than the 360 launch-aligned, is now very recently a thing of the past and will not see a turnaround this generation. The amount of ended studio relationships (Remedy, Insomniac), closed studios (Press Play, Lionhead) and cancelled projects (Phantom Dust Remake, Scalebound) are just continuous, all-too-frequent gut punches no prior Xbox generation has had to endure.

 

[Bgamer90]

Saving releases around the launch of a new console isn't the strategy of a platform holder trying to blur the lines between console generations, even if those games do release on XBO.

Microsoft saves most of their exclusives for the Fall though which is primarily why I said it. Ever since the beginning of this gen it seems as if the silly "no games" criticism goes back and forth. Xbox during first half of year, PS4 during second half. The current Xbox "has no games" talk reminds me of what people said about Sony in 2014.

 

[marthurstewart]

Microsoft was always going to be hurt by the way Japanese developers have done business. Ni-oh, Persona, and Tales aren't first party titles but they're essential exclusives due to how Japanese developers ignore multi platform development alot of the time.

That said I do think Microsoft needs to do a better job for the future of having a mix of Single and multi player games.

I did think it was intresting that Recore giot shit in for Jank, but in other cases people talk about how much they love the euro Jank.

I think I get what you're saying in your last sentence here ... but, uh, are you having a stroke or something? Do we need to call an ambulance?

 

[shingi70]

Sorry, it's the spell check on my devices. I should probably start proof reading what I type.

 

[privitsan02]

If you like racing games, PS4 definitely isn't for you. If you like Japanese games, Xbox definitely isn't for you.

Yeah, GT is great but it takes ages to come out.

Best wishes.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Edit: i replied with old page up lol nvm now