I think you should try to respect a bit more who has different opinion indeed to try to downplay him eh. Like I said I'm big fan of the brand and I don't like what ND did in this chapter. Especially after the magnificent TLOU. I found even Rise of TR gameplay a breath of fresh air compared to it and that's something who give me some worry.
LTTP: Uncharted 4 is a mediocre game that is really pretty.
- Thread starter dr3upmushroom
- Start date
The Incarnation
Member
Trump's speeches.
Hari Seldon
Member
Yeah I thought he game was bad to mediocre. I'm done with naughty dog unless they change up their formula considerably. They need to spend less time fucking around with perfect face animation and actually make the next UC fun.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I loved it, but I'm more about story, characters, atmosphere, graphics etc than gameplay these days. Though I also really enjoyed the fights as well as the shooting felt nice and it was fun to try to to stealthy and then go guns blazing when caught etc.
I've finished all Uncharted games on PS3 and loved them even though the gameplay started to get boring with U3. I've stopped playing U4 half-way through because I couldn't stand the gunplay anymore. I just wanted to see the rest of the movie game without having to kill countless dumbass enemies or fiddling around with climbing so if there were a way to view the rest just as a movie I might've finished it.
papercan55
Member
agree 100% though i would actually say that it was bordering on being bad instead of just mediocre.
Was stunning visually though, and i spent a long time just panning the camera,.
Gameplay was really boring though with awful pacing throughout.
Really pleased that the series is over, uncharted 2 is still amazing but they need to move on.
Was stunning visually though, and i spent a long time just panning the camera,.
Gameplay was really boring though with awful pacing throughout.
Really pleased that the series is over, uncharted 2 is still amazing but they need to move on.
I have played the entire Uncharted series and really just felt kind of bleh on it the entire time. I ac knowledge they are great fames, but just not for me at all. I loved uc4s story and characters but there is just something about the combat and climbing I don't find appealing at all.
I don't think the problem was the brand. You can be innovative even with the same title. But ND preferred to use the old tiring formula to stay safe, when an inventory/grow system like TLOU could be a thing. Or they can experiment a lot of new gameplay ideas but just they didn't. No one woukd have accuse them of anything if they tried. Indeed.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Yep, totally agree. I mean if it really was a bad or mediocre game, the reviews would reflect that.
The fact is, the game is really good but some people don't like it, which is fair enough, but not liking something doesn't mean it's bad. I don't like football or football games but that doesn't mean Fifa and Pro Evo are bad games, they are just not my thing.
I think Uncharted 4 is excellent, it has great voice acting, strong story, solid gameplay. I like a good story in a game though.
So by that logic, Uncharted 4 can't possibly be an amazing game, it just means that a specific person, personally, really liked it.
That's silly.
While I will acknowledge that this game has massive amounts of critical acclaim, I think it's important to remember that people place value on different things and go into games with a different perspective. For example, I went in thinking I would get a game very similar to the previous 3 Uncharted entries (not a far fetched thought by any stretch). So I was quite disappointed when many of the parts I liked about Uncharted were missing.
Now previously I called it a bad game. Hyperbole? Sure. But I think when people make these threads they're looking for others to validate their opinion, especially when its not a popular opinion. I'm not being disingenuous to OP when I say that, because I truly did not enjoy the game and I think "mediocre" is an absolute fair assessment if you came into this expecting something similar to previous entries.
Any opinion is a valid opinion given proper support.
Mister Wolf
Member
Good game but the worst uncharted. Boring set pieces boring combat compared to the trilogy.
I really enjoyed it but haven't had much want to replay it. It's a definitely one and doner for me. Especially with how slow it can be, especially at the beginning.
Honestly, I really hope the dogs go a much different route with TLOU2.
They do what they do well, but every single game they do, you know what to expect. (a tight narrative, linear game with shoots.)
Honestly, I really hope the dogs go a much different route with TLOU2.
They do what they do well, but every single game they do, you know what to expect. (a tight narrative, linear game with shoots.)
I mean, what kind of reviews we are talking about? Only of the positive? Because I remembered some criticism at the time. There was even a whole eurogamer article about it eh.
Keihart
Member
If anything the TPS part of uncharted 4 is some of the best on the genre, side by side with the likes of Vanquish to me..
https://youtu.be/sZcVhWXLT5Y
Gameplay really is great, if anything, i was left wanting more combat.
https://youtu.be/sZcVhWXLT5Y
Gameplay really is great, if anything, i was left wanting more combat.
RedlineRonin
Member
I am super curious for your take on what the gold standard is for story telling in games. I think most people would say that TLoU and UC4 are up there, so i'm curious for what you think is "best-ever in recent gaming."
This is a good point. I think the Nate and Elena stuff is really good, but you spend a lot more time with Sam, and you're right, most of it is pretty superficial. I didn't notice it during the game, but that probably says a lot more about what you expect from games in general when it comes to that kind of dialogue, than it does about UC4 itself.
I can't speak to the walk and talk vs. the other UC games; it's been too long since i played them. What i will say, is that I was probably looking at all the eye candy during these times, so i didn't notice. You're not wrong, I just didn't notice it as much. Similar to above, probably says more about games in general and the low bar there.
This one is hard, and i think it's because of how broadly we use the term "story." For me, the "story" was all about the relationships, specifically Nate and Elena. And she cuts him slack over and over and then finally (almost) gets to the end of her rope with the lying. I really felt like the back and forth with Nate and Elena "earned the emotional beats." The twist with Sam didn't do much for me, however.
You'll get zero contention from me on the gameplay. Again, serviceable is the word i'd use. It might be the best that UC has ever been, but, and someone else said this best earlier in the thread, it's the exact same from hour one to hour twenty one.
I agree with you. It has moments. I think by the time i'd gotten to this game, I was ready to be kind of done with the UC style of entertaining set pieces. I think because they've set the bar so high in three previous entries, even the really cool stuff like the bell tower and chase just don't have as much impact because you're constantly waiting for the next bombastic sequence.
Also there were about seventeen too many "i jumped and grabbed a thing and the thing crumbled/broke" moments. They could be done with those altogether and I wouldn't mind.
All makes sense and well thought out. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Sure it's not a perfect game, its still a great game though. It doesn't sit with a score of 93 and 92 on Metacritic and Opencritic because it's it bad game, most reviews scored it high, because it's a good game.
Metacritic lists 113 review, with only 1 negative and 1 mixed reivew, the other 111 are positive, so the criticism is very minor.
Also that Eurogamer article doesn't mean much, especially when they still gave the game a great review and a recommended badge.
papercan55
Member
I agree, it's not that i'm happy to see uncharted finish more that i'm happy for them to end it if they really don't want to try new things with the series.
It has huge potential but it's getting very stale as they seem to refuse to try new ideas.
The pacing in the fourth game was almost unforgivable and made no sense at times, after a slow paced chapter, and just when the game needed something exciting and fun, they decide to cut the boat chase and have you move onto more slow paced chapters.
Why did they cut it? Because they thought the start needed something exciting.
I was baffled at that decision and it really sums the game for me. bad decisions and no effort to move the series forward other than visuals.
Summer Haze
Banned
The pacing was bad, I didn't care about Nate's relationship with Elena, all I wanted to do was shoot and swing, but there was way too much not doing much of anything. Which is a shame because I thought the gameplay was great this time around, there just needed to be more of it. The vericality and overall arena design, good AI (on Hard at least), swing mechanics, and improved gunplay I thought were all great.
I can't agree more. It reflects perfectly my feels about the game. I really hope the next episode with Cloe change completely the tone of the brand.
elkniwcire
Member
I agree. I loved 1-3, but 4 just feels so boring. The graphics are awesome, but the gameplay just isn't exciting. The whole thing feels predictable: Climb mountain, ledge breaks "oh crap!," find footing, mediocre shootout, repeat. I'm about 60% of the way through it and I don't know if I'll ever finish it. It's just so slow.
The game seems to be lacking the excitement of big moments of UC2 or even UC3. I know that UC3 wasn't perfect, but I can at least think of some huge moments that had me on the edge of my seat. So far there is what? That car chase scene? Even that isn't quite as awesome as what's happened in previous games
The game seems to be lacking the excitement of big moments of UC2 or even UC3. I know that UC3 wasn't perfect, but I can at least think of some huge moments that had me on the edge of my seat. So far there is what? That car chase scene? Even that isn't quite as awesome as what's happened in previous games
RedlineRonin
Member
Not yet. Honestly, that one is a $20 bin for me (open for someone to change my mind tho).
I have zero affection for the older ones; didn't play ICO or Shadow of the Colossus (I know, flay me alive), so I don't have any nostalgia that makes me want to play it.
Then most reviews said that some of the controlling Trico stuff could be frustrating at times and some of the textures looked somewhat last gen.
I fully intend to play it at some point, but it's just super low on my list. And as everyone is aware, this spring is brutal in terms of trying to play all the really good games coming out (trying to get through Horizon now, ME:A at the end of the month, would love to see what Nier is about and really want to play Nioh. And I've yet to play Bloodborne, despite having owned it since i bought a pro in November).
Why?
Brian_FETO
Banned
I like that it's rarely "I didn't like this thing", it has to be objectively not good
As someone who is not a fan of Uncharted, U4 was my favorite game in the series and one of the best games I've played. Can't comment on replayability but the limited combat encounters are extremely well-crafted and some of the best combat setpieces I've experienced in a game.
I didn't enjoy previous games (even U2) because the design was "constant hordes of enemies" followed by "more bullet sponges". I understand that more combat is probably better for replayability but Uncharted 4 is the closest I've seen a cinematic game come to actually nailing the pacing and memorability of a film (over the course of a 15 hour game)
As someone who is not a fan of Uncharted, U4 was my favorite game in the series and one of the best games I've played. Can't comment on replayability but the limited combat encounters are extremely well-crafted and some of the best combat setpieces I've experienced in a game.
I didn't enjoy previous games (even U2) because the design was "constant hordes of enemies" followed by "more bullet sponges". I understand that more combat is probably better for replayability but Uncharted 4 is the closest I've seen a cinematic game come to actually nailing the pacing and memorability of a film (over the course of a 15 hour game)
elkniwcire
Member
This. This. This. Way too much fat in this game. 12 hours of the best stuff would have been perfect!
I couldn't (or at least haven't) finished it. It's too long for what it is. There's only so many ledges I can shimmy across, so many footholds to leap before they crumble, and so many bad guys I can pop before I begin questioning why I'm doing what I'm doing and if I'm still having fun. I had the same exact problems with both of the recent Tomb Raiders too. Fantastic 10 hour games stretched to the point of absurdity.
ronaldthump
Member
I need to copy and paste my sentiments for uc4 so I can regurgitate it everytime it comes up
personally: found by
kid drake bits = dull. Pace killer
climbing too much = dull
The expansive nature of the game made treasure hunting a chore
Not enough combat
But when the game is good, its beyond great.
Crash
Attic
Chase
Collapse
Drive with elena
Shipyard
Finale sword fight
Exposition
One of the best games I've played last year. Felt a lot of emotions when credits rolled. If they re-release the game and tighten it up a bit; doing something videogames rarely do - reduce the complaints, and add combat) - a UC4 remastered edition would perfect the game. But as is, it's a terrific game I nominated for GAF's goty. There are 3-4 moments in here when I felt genuine emotions. That drive with elena and the music coming up. Oh dear
personally: found by
kid drake bits = dull. Pace killer
climbing too much = dull
The expansive nature of the game made treasure hunting a chore
Not enough combat
But when the game is good, its beyond great.
Crash
Attic
Chase
Collapse
Drive with elena
Shipyard
Finale sword fight
Exposition
One of the best games I've played last year. Felt a lot of emotions when credits rolled. If they re-release the game and tighten it up a bit; doing something videogames rarely do - reduce the complaints, and add combat) - a UC4 remastered edition would perfect the game. But as is, it's a terrific game I nominated for GAF's goty. There are 3-4 moments in here when I felt genuine emotions. That drive with elena and the music coming up. Oh dear
Omotesando
Member
To me UC4 is the only 9/10 game out of the trilogy. The others are 8/10 at best, including UC2.
I don't think it's matter to like or less, such things. I have to stop myself even during the first walkthrough cause the bad pacing. That's something it's never happened to me with the series maybe sometime just with the first title. That's not sign of a good job design but otherwise.
A bit OT but now I understood why eurogamer has abandoned the score review method. That's pointless when tons of problems emerge from the gameplay but you know, look to the general rating, that's a masterpiece and who said otherwise just doesn't like things.
ronaldthump
Member
UC 2 = 10/10. It's amazing. MP amazing SP amazing
If I had to rank
UC2 10/10
UC4 9/10
UC3 7/10 MP wrecked and they kept fucking with the balance + launch shooting mechanics pre patch was total shit, villian was rubbish
UC1 6/10 its okay
You make some good points there, but I feel most of the story's shortcomings exist because they decided to create Drake's brother out thin air. Now, when the game was first revealed, the brother was apparently supposed to be the villain, and maybe it would've been easier to manage since the narrative could've been that Drake didn't want anything to do with him and just build on that. I imagine that when Neil got the helm, there was just too much work to scratch entirely and they opted to keep the brother, but decided to go in another direction. One that made the relationships between characters a bit awkward, and forced at times. Still, I feel they did wonders introducing Drake's brother out of nowhere, in the 4th game of the series, and still make it work somehow.
Despite of that, I felt the story had a strong emotional push, not because of Sam, but because of Elena (and in some form Sully). We finally experienced their relationship develop in a great way that many people can definitely relate to. I feel ND did great in using Sam as a tool to give such a satisfying closure to Drake and Elena, even if Sam wasn't that great in a vacuum. It also helped that the Avery story was interesting as well, specially the times when it was used as a platform to highlight Drake and Elena's struggles and understandings.
I for one think Uncharted 4's story is the best overall and it's the one I definitely related to the most. The first 5 chapters are some of the most fun I've had in a video game in years. The game just hit all the right notes for me when it comes to story, dialogue and acting.
Gravy Boat
Member
When I people say 'I think X is good/mediocre/bad, they're giving you their opinion. If someone says they are think a thing is mediocre you don't get to call their opinion hyperbolic. Unless someone explicitly starts their post with 'I SPEAK FOR EVERYONE WHEN I SAY....' they're clearly talking about their own opinion.
It's infuriating that people still try and make the 'that's just your opinion' argument when discussing something that's inherently subjective. Of course it's my opinion, that's why I posted it.
AudioEppa
Member
Beautifully well said.
I thought Sam was great. He fit right into everything for being introduced for the first time. But I was generally surprised that the game was really about Drake and Elena overall. Their relationship has always been my personal reason for playing. Not the endless shoot outs. Not the big set piece explosions. All the shit is cool, but I don't need it to be the focus. Storytelling and developing characters that can bring out emotions in us as players makes or breaks games for me now. Uncharted 4 beyond exceeded in everything it did. This is ND at its absolute best. And I can't wait for more.
I just think you could really enjoy it, given your posts in this thread.
You should definitely try Bloodborne too, but I have no idea if you'll like it.
RedlineRonin
Member
I'll keep it in mind. With the permanent price drop, I don't think it'll be too long before I pick it up. Just might not get played until summer or something.
I know for fact i'll love BB (loved all three DS), have just been patiently waiting for that 4.5 PS4 firmware update for my Pro....
Storm Chamber
Banned
The Naughty Dog formula never fails.
U4 is a great game and a worthy finish of the series (story-wise at least), but it did feel somewhat stale. It was much of the same of the previous games. My biggest criticism personally was the climbing parts, yeah great scenery, but it was so boring, ND could easily invent something new that made those parts more challenging.
What makes it so interesting to me to discuss this game is how discussions tend to get to the meat of game design, just due to the nature of the game.
Once we're past the usual "your opinion is ridiculous" part of the thread, in order to continue discussing this game and why some consider it to be bad, we have to compare it to similar games from the same devs who many of the people who dislike 4 consider great.
When you're trying to talk about how one of the most polished games of all time is not very good, you can't just fall back to technical shortcomings to back up your opinion, it's really just design talk, comparing the devs' intention to the execution, and the reasons why it didn't work. We had some really good posts in this thread already. Always great to read.
About Sam, since that was brought up, I really disliked the character, but he was responsible for what was, in my opinion, the best narrative moment in the entire game, and one of the best uses of the medium for storytelling I can think of:
It's just a brilliant moment. I really liked the first few hours of this game. I'd say that around Chapter 10 was when the game started to lose me.
To me, The Last Guardian shares a lot in intent with Uncharted 4. A tale about a relationship, and how it develops. But, in my opinion, without the shortcomings. It beautifully integrates gameplay and story, and everything you do moves that story forward.
It's the kind of narrative that just wouldn't be the same in any other medium. Truly a special game, one of my favorites of all time. A spot that The Last of Us also holds.
Once we're past the usual "your opinion is ridiculous" part of the thread, in order to continue discussing this game and why some consider it to be bad, we have to compare it to similar games from the same devs who many of the people who dislike 4 consider great.
When you're trying to talk about how one of the most polished games of all time is not very good, you can't just fall back to technical shortcomings to back up your opinion, it's really just design talk, comparing the devs' intention to the execution, and the reasons why it didn't work. We had some really good posts in this thread already. Always great to read.
About Sam, since that was brought up, I really disliked the character, but he was responsible for what was, in my opinion, the best narrative moment in the entire game, and one of the best uses of the medium for storytelling I can think of:
Which is, everyone already guessed, the prison escape mission. No matter how bad things got, how shitty Sam could seem, the fact that we got to play his escape made it so we didn't have any reason to doubt that. We were there, of course it's true. But the game subverts that expectation from the player completely, and in a way makes us feel similarly betrayed.
It's just a brilliant moment. I really liked the first few hours of this game. I'd say that around Chapter 10 was when the game started to lose me.
To me, The Last Guardian shares a lot in intent with Uncharted 4. A tale about a relationship, and how it develops. But, in my opinion, without the shortcomings. It beautifully integrates gameplay and story, and everything you do moves that story forward.
It's the kind of narrative that just wouldn't be the same in any other medium. Truly a special game, one of my favorites of all time. A spot that The Last of Us also holds.
Can't argue that convincing reasoning.
Best gameplay, story, writing, graphics in the series and a great, satisfying conclusion to the story. What more can be said?
Subjectivity incoming:
Mediocre is used in such a negative way nowadays that this seems a bit OTT imo.
In its literal term (average, moderate quality, good but not great) I almost agree, purely in terms of gameplay anyway.
It, along with the other Uncharted games are good games. They are well made, fun and obviously spectacular in terms of production value, storytelling and visual quality. But they do have a lot of flaws. Repetitive gameplay, clumsy controls, awkward camera (especially during combat), extremely uneven difficulty, and at times infuriating mechanics to name some.
Mediocre - in it's common definition - is perhaps harsh. It is simply "Good".
...IMO
Mediocre is used in such a negative way nowadays that this seems a bit OTT imo.
In its literal term (average, moderate quality, good but not great) I almost agree, purely in terms of gameplay anyway.
It, along with the other Uncharted games are good games. They are well made, fun and obviously spectacular in terms of production value, storytelling and visual quality. But they do have a lot of flaws. Repetitive gameplay, clumsy controls, awkward camera (especially during combat), extremely uneven difficulty, and at times infuriating mechanics to name some.
Mediocre - in it's common definition - is perhaps harsh. It is simply "Good".
...IMO
Naughty Dog really isn't the best at balancing difficulties, I feel.
Uncharted 4 may be a bit worse, but even The Last of Us I feel like "Hard" is by far the most balanced one. The others aren't frustrating, they're doable, but I see them as the kind of difficulty you do once just to see what is like, but go back to Hard in future playthroughs, if you feel like playing again.