NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread
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MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Yeah, there is a creator God in the Drakengard universe that really, really hates humanity and keeps making things like Dragons, the Watchers, the Flower/Intoners and the diseases. But for the machines/androids thats a step removed from humanity itself which they refer to as gods. I find it interesting the first line in the game is 2B questioning when she will be able to kill the God that keeps this cycle running, essentially asking when she can break free from this cycle and gain true free will.
Accord probably works for God. I'm still pretty surprised she didn't show up in Automata beyond a reference in the weapon sheet, since you think all these timeline divergences would be her area of expertise. I wonder if 9S, Adam and Eve and the Red Girls would count as an anomaly to her.
Accord probably works for God. I'm still pretty surprised she didn't show up in Automata beyond a reference in the weapon sheet, since you think all these timeline divergences would be her area of expertise. I wonder if 9S, Adam and Eve and the Red Girls would count as an anomaly to her.
Pretty sure she would, that's her job and all.
If the commander doesn't know the truth of Project YoRHa, I don't see why 2B would. I'm not even entirely sure if she knows that humans are extinct, or if she just blindly follows orders and kills 9S when asked. Then again, if she usually has to accompany him, maybe she did know.
One thing that also confused me a little is regarding the machines. I was watching my friend play and just beat Beauvoir, and afterwards when 9S was having second thoughts regarding the machines' sentience, she told him that he himself said that they're just machines or whatever. Was that a lie as well? Or is the machines branching off (like Pascal for example) actually a new thing for her?
Possibly, or it could have been more vague. That said, she's clearly been through enough runs of this by the time the game starts, given her opening monologue and a bunch of other scenes, that she probably knows and hates humanity, the god responsible for this neverending cycle of death and misery, for it. A closeted atheist, if you will.
I think its more that 2B is around 9S to constantly kill him and keep an eye on him. She probably doesn't know the exact reasons as to why, she just knows that she's there to kill him should the needs arrive (hence why everytime she kills him its literally a life or death thing for 9S).
Though i really do like this interpretation too
At that moment the machine related stuff is unknown to 2B. We so see her falter in areas before but they both seem to try and keep each other on track with the thought "machines are emotionless and know nothing". Its a back and forth bubble that gets burst when Pascals village comes into view.
A2 is great. She's cut off from the android network so can't really upload her consciousness to the bunker, she has YoRHa after her cos she's a deserter, she's going all punisher on the machines, and she's managed to survive in that situation on her own for fuck knows how many years cos she's a goddamn savage.
I know we got the VN segment, but I want DLC that covers Pearl Harbour and its aftermath.
I know we got the VN segment, but I want DLC that covers Pearl Harbour and its aftermath.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
1. Why does 9S say "oh yeah, you wouldn't have seen that before" in regard to the supply rockets on your first trip to the machine village?
2. Similarly, why does 9S need to explain to 2B how the transporters work?
2. Similarly, why does 9S need to explain to 2B how the transporters work?
They don't know mankind is extinct. The androids think mankind is chilling on the moon, waiting for the androids to waste the machines and give humans Earth.
They think humans are still alive. They "need a god to fight for." It's all bullshit to get them to fight a meaningless war.
Maybe To 9s this is 2b's first deployment?
I see... That does make sense.
Bruh, they explained that several times lol
Without humanity, a "god" to fight for, the androids would lose their morale, which then leads to decreased efficiency regarding the war effort, meaning they'd end up losing the war. But whoever designed Project YoRHA and the past self-sabotages are keenly aware that they cannot win the war either, because then the rest of the androids would eventually find out the truth of humanity's extinction.
So they're just stuck... not being able to either win or lose, only fight in an utterly pointless war for eternity, essentially because the "higher-ups" don't trust that androids would be able to find meaning in their lives otherwise.
1: 2B doesn't go to the surface usually long enough to know what supply launches look like from the earth. Apparently, 9S has.
2: Thats explained in dialogue. Its something he overheard when it was being tested and its new. Hence 2B doesn't know about it.
edit: Because that's not really how it would work out. They are hardwired to want humanity, knowing humanity doesn't exist why would they fight machines? Its all about know having "something" to fight for. In this case, a false god.
Searching for a reason to fight and live on is the entire point of the story
Yea, even after knowing the truth, 9S still was obsessed with humanity.
Yep his last lines in ending D really cement this (w/ amazing voice acting to boot :3)
Sure, but morale was dropping cos of all the rumours regarding the demise of humans, so they could have tried utilising revenge as a motivator before YoRHa was put in place. If you can't fight for them, then fight to avenge them. And then eventually fight for themselves.
I was gonna say the machines but that wouldn't really apply, so actually yeah you're right. I'm looking at it the wrong way. I was just trying to think of any other alternatives to YoRHa.
Avenge what? The people responsible for the death of mankind all died together with the rest of mankind
There is no one left to revenge against
"Shut up, shut up, shut UP, SHUT UP!" is an iconic line lmao
This. Humanity was extinct long before aliens had arrived. Also it's not like Project YoRHa was the first time they've done this. I'm sure they've exhausted numerous options.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Is it just me, or does Eve's Japanese VA not sound as childish as the English VA?
My bad on 2. I guess I only remembered part of the conversation.
I would think he has access to enough information to at least know that she's been fighting for awhile, or it would come up in conversation at some point.
That kind of makes sense, but it seems weird that a top of the line multi-purpose combat unit like 2E would spend most of her time on the Bunker.
My bad on 2. I guess I only remembered part of the conversation.
"It doesn't matter, None of this matters!"
"But if it doesn't matter... why do I long for humans like this!?"
"Why do I desire the touch of something that no longer exists "
I don't really blame 9S for saying shut up XD
Kid's super broken at that point.
E units are used to kill deserters or other Yorha units that need killing. I just assume that unless someone has to die, they aren't counted on. They aren't normal combat units.
i just wanted to say that i really love how the machine network and android command have such a nice parallel
the machine network is trying to break free of their programmed 'reason for existing' in the sense of requiring conflict to evolve, so they're trying to become more human as an exploration of that angle.
the android command realized that they have no reason to exist anymore and decide to create one in the sense of eternal conflict, using humans as the center of that
they are trying to attempt to reach each other's existential status quo by using humans
the machine network is trying to break free of their programmed 'reason for existing' in the sense of requiring conflict to evolve, so they're trying to become more human as an exploration of that angle.
the android command realized that they have no reason to exist anymore and decide to create one in the sense of eternal conflict, using humans as the center of that
they are trying to attempt to reach each other's existential status quo by using humans
cosmicspooks
Member
Killer essay. I especially dug the bit about gender and sexuality in the game, which I only thought through as far as "interesting Pascal is voiced by a woman" and "how nice that you have completely normalized homosexual characters".
Also it's given me a couple books to look into. You know a work is great when it becomes a springboard for other ideas like this.
There is a thing I found fascinating after watching some people reactions on youtube when Pascal takes over.
Most people seem to be going like "omg epic let's fuck shit up Pascal!" and the game obviously is using that, but I experienced it like a gut wrenching moment and at first just stood there in the Engels not doing anything. I hate when characters are forced to throw their core beliefs out of the window and for Pascal that was absolutely terrible if you think about the character and its story.
What follows is even worse, lol.
In any case, I feel like not many games did that before. Hiding your most tragic moments under a sugar coating video-game-epic moment is pretty interesting and people have different reactions to that. Still, it is kinda fucked up when you think about it.
Most people seem to be going like "omg epic let's fuck shit up Pascal!" and the game obviously is using that, but I experienced it like a gut wrenching moment and at first just stood there in the Engels not doing anything. I hate when characters are forced to throw their core beliefs out of the window and for Pascal that was absolutely terrible if you think about the character and its story.
What follows is even worse, lol.
In any case, I feel like not many games did that before. Hiding your most tragic moments under a sugar coating video-game-epic moment is pretty interesting and people have different reactions to that. Still, it is kinda fucked up when you think about it.
Man, I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I like how aside from bosses being named after philosophers, but I like how the goliaths/bosses have a connection to their namesake.
Marx and Engels are goliaths that look mechanical and and look like factories. Marx is pretty well-known for his Communist Manifesto which called the laborers to seize the means of production from the elite. This was made during the Industrial revolution, where factories became the main source of employment.
Beauvoir/Simone is a feminine robot who has fallen in love with a robot named Sartre/Jean-Paul.
Hegels is a group of circular pods that may work as individuals pods (thesis) and may synthesize together to form one flying caterpillars.
Adam and Eve are pretty self-explanatory.
Anybody else I missed?
Marx and Engels are goliaths that look mechanical and and look like factories. Marx is pretty well-known for his Communist Manifesto which called the laborers to seize the means of production from the elite. This was made during the Industrial revolution, where factories became the main source of employment.
Beauvoir/Simone is a feminine robot who has fallen in love with a robot named Sartre/Jean-Paul.
Hegels is a group of circular pods that may work as individuals pods (thesis) and may synthesize together to form one flying caterpillars.
Adam and Eve are pretty self-explanatory.
Anybody else I missed?
A2 basically just is Kaine so yeah, I think so.
Man, that's nuts. You really miss a lot of subtext if you don't pay attention to other media. I completely missed the first time around how P-33 from nier is heavily implied to be the cause of the machines becoming self aware. There is a small picture book about it when you enter the apartment complex as 9S but I didn't really understand the context at the time.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Kierkegaard being the head of a cult; an organised one at that.
wait what
You should read the novel "The fire of Prometheus"
http://drakengard-3.com/blog/2014/09/14/novella-the-fire-of-prometheus/
It also implies that he and his comrades have become Hegel
P-33's stuff is like the most hidden, vital lore in the game.
"So hey, remember that one boss from the first game you killed? Well, he survived somehow (shut up) and reactivated thousands of years later, granted self awareness to the alien machines, and then flew off into space.
Maybe."
"So hey, remember that one boss from the first game you killed? Well, he survived somehow (shut up) and reactivated thousands of years later, granted self awareness to the alien machines, and then flew off into space.
Maybe."
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Oh shit I think I blew my mind over something in endings A and B.
Like, in route C, you can't harm the corrupted YoHra units because they still have the YoHra signature which prevents 2B from attacking them until 9S lifts that limitation through hacking.
Buuut, in earlier sidequests you can attack rogue YoHra units and A2.
You might be thinking it's bullshit and the game making up rules as it goes, but nooo, in those cases command explicitly tells you to execute them.
Sooo here's the mindblowing thing : 2B kills 9S in ending A and B. Because she's programmed to execute him if needed, she can effectively end his life.
Mind = blown.
Like, in route C, you can't harm the corrupted YoHra units because they still have the YoHra signature which prevents 2B from attacking them until 9S lifts that limitation through hacking.
Buuut, in earlier sidequests you can attack rogue YoHra units and A2.
You might be thinking it's bullshit and the game making up rules as it goes, but nooo, in those cases command explicitly tells you to execute them.
Sooo here's the mindblowing thing : 2B kills 9S in ending A and B. Because she's programmed to execute him if needed, she can effectively end his life.
Mind = blown.
Wait what
WAIT WHAT
I killed Beepy again!
Nachtfalke
Member
Fantastic stuff. Thanks for sharing.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
that article seems wrong. I dont think there was anything at all about blowing up the moon as part of the YoRHa plan, just blowing up YoRHa so surface androids believed the humans were still on the moon and continued their war.
DreamedLint
Member
I remember watching Clemps's nier videos and he talked about how P-33 and his comrades escaped into outer space singing a song. I can't remember exactly how it goes but one of the last spheres you fight as 9S and A2 chants something that reminds me of it.
Edit: My b. The song has nothing to do with it, but P-33 did run into the androids fighting the machines, and assimilated some of them to escape into space.
Edit: My b. The song has nothing to do with it, but P-33 did run into the androids fighting the machines, and assimilated some of them to escape into space.
Sounds plenty of childish to me. Especially when he's with Adam.
muetimueti
Neo Member
Yeah, there was one other thing the author clearly misunderstood (don't remember what exactly that was, I read it two days ago), but those factual errors didn't really lessen the otherwise good points that were made, I thought.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I'm confused. P-33 was just a robot. In Automata, Hegel is detected by the Pod to be a machine lifeform.
My understanding is that the machine lifeforms came from space, however.
What am I missing? Did the machine lifeforms not actually come from space?
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Listening to this now and they said the 9S model was based of Kaine. Where was this hinted at? Great podcast though.
The Aliens came from space, but they built the machines on Earth. The very first conflict was basically Emil Vs the aliens. The machines came either during or after that war.
OniBarubary
Banned
A2 is based off Kaine, not 9S