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[Neoweee]

So what? Nintendo can buy larger amounts flash memory. Most apps on phones and tablets are a few hundred MB at most. Many games on the Switch, including download only games are going to be much larger than that.
Flash memory isn't nearly as expensive as the mark up given to it by phone/tablet manufacturers and Nintendo should of eaten the cost of adding more flash memory to the Switch.

I agree. They should have eaten the cost for a slightly larger one.

What WB is doing would still be a huge problem, even if the Switch came with 64GB or 128GB. We'd still have this thread, and it would be almost as long as it is now, because what WB is doing is completely wrong for any device with physical media and only solid state storage options. I bought a Switch knowing full well that it was a hidden cost of the system (albeit a relatively minor one) to expand the storage, but I'm sure as fuck not going to be buying LCU.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

Why do people keep forgetting 3ds vita games were hardly ever over 3 or so gb?
And where are people finding cheap 128gb cards? Those samsung ones cost as much as or more than a full retail game depending 9n the quality.
The system is clearly not designed around digital games as primary mode of play and youd think Nintendo would have policies in place to stop this shit from happening

 

[Calm Mind]

It's shit like this as to why I have trust issues with 3rd party publishers.

 

[NeptunePirate]

Yes, only about third of the game's data is actually on the cartridge. Given that it's an open world game, I don't think the game will be playable at all without the download.

Wow, this is a little ridiculous. I'll probably end up cancelling my preorder then.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yeah, and the 8GB vita memory card will be enough to play hundreds of Vita game cards.

With the 128GB microSD you can fit 9 Lego City Undercovers.


When the point of comparison you need to defend a storage situation is the frickin' Vita....

I'm not defending anything, I'm pointing out that it makes no sense to make a comparison. However, not every game on Switch is a 20GB Lego City-sized game and not every Vita game is a 100mb indie game. What a stupid comparison to make.

SD cards constantly get cheaper anyway. That 8GB Vita card will always be the same high price because of Sony's anti-consumer nonsense in regard to storage mediums. I'll buy able to buy a 1TB micro SD card for less than $100 in a couple years.

 

[K.Jack]

It's shit like this as to why I have trust issues with 3rd party publishers.

Does Nintendo really hold none of the blame with some of you?

 

[MetalliCabombination]

It's shit like this as to why I have trust issues with 3rd party publishers.

So you want them to take hits for Nintendo?

 

[Maintenance]

Because they want a retail presence. That's the reason most physical versions of games exist, not for collectors.

PS4 games have been requiring huge D/L's and internet connections since launch and gamers don't seem to give a shit, not sure why you would expect Nintendo to try and pressure third parties about it.

Probably because the PS4 doesn't come with 32gb.

 

[modsbox]

Nintendo just needs to make a rule that games must be playable in full without a download for physical releases. If splatoon is only 1.8gb, great you can release it on a 2gb card. If it's 20, sorry you gotta pony up.

The other thing they need to do is just make the price to pubs for the 8 and 16 cards neglibly more expensive so they won't make stupid choices like this.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

If there was a mandate, it shouldn't be possible to buy Super Bomberman R off the Australian eShop for AUD$65 while getting a physical copy is AUD$90.

Edit: And now it seems that​ Konami raised the price to AUD$90 on the eShop recently.

http://www.vooks.net/super-bomberman-r-price-raised-27-percent-89-95-australian-eshop/

Yeah this really seems to seal the idea of the mandate being real to me

 

[Lupin the Third]

Nintendo just needs to make a rule that games must be playable in full without a download for physical releases. If splatoon is only 1.8gb, great you can release it on a 2gb card. If it's 20, sorry you gotta pony up.

The other thing they need to do is just make the price to pubs for the 8 and 16 cards neglibly more expensive so they won't make stupid choices like this.

Everyone wants Nintendo to bend over backwards to appease and bring on 3rd parties and this is the kind of nonsense they love to do.

Our little indie game store has canceled our Switch version orders and asked our distributor to pass on the reason why. Hopefully they get the message that way even if it's just a handful of copies.

 

[7DollarHagane]

It's a tough call, but I can see this happening with a lot of games that break 20gb or so in the future.

It's tough because if they bump up the cart size they are taking less profit by selling it the same price as the ps4 or xb1 versions.

If they don't and save money they are potentially angering fans.

Nintendo can't mandate what third parties do because then they will just charge $70 for the switch version and nobody will buy it and 3rd parties disappear on the platform.

Not an easy problem to resolve, but I think nintendo allowing 3rd parties to do as they like and letting the market decide if they approve by buying or not is the best answer.

 

[plagiarize]

If they do so, devs will either raise the price by what looks like $10 USD at the moment....or go digital-only (also bad, even if you're a digital-only consumer), or simply not release on the Switch.

There's no solution, really. That was the concern with moving to game cards from cheap discs.

I'm still cancelling my pre order for the game. And I'm not buying Ryme either.

I'm going physical here, to avoid buying a memory card and to enjoy 20% off pre orders from Amazon. Only putting one third of the game on the cart is indefensible.

Don't bother porting your Wii U launch window title if you are going to do something like this. I already bought enough 'test the market' games to know that devs basically never follow through on Nintendo systems no matter what.

 

[toa95]

I don't understand what people expect from Nintendo... First off, let's say the Switch had 64 GB off the bat. It'd be at least $350, people lost their shit over $300 let alone $350. Micro SD cards are a great compromise for the storage issue. Secondly, it seems like people wanted Nintendo to put a 500 GB hard drive in this thing, but the hard drives the PS4 and Xbox use are nearly as big as the entire Switch console. Finally people seem to just want Nintendo to tell third parties doing this to fuck off but they're lucky to even get ports as is. Nintendo is in a shitty situation right now and I don't envy whoever needs to figure out how to fix this over at Nintendo.

 

[rokkerkory]

This is not acceptable if publishers are trying to get around paying for carts

 

[K.Jack]

You release on a full size cart at PS4/X1 parity price = definitely make less money

You release on a full size cart, at a higher price to compensate = potentially make less money

You go with a smaller cart, and have the rest as a download = potentially make less money

You say fuck the cart issue altogether, and go digital only = potentially make less money

How can devs/pubs win? What is the solution to he problem Nintendo has created?

 

[Fdkn]

First off, let's say the Switch had 64 GB off the bat. It'd be at least $350, people lost their shit over $300 let alone $350.

The first mistake is thinking that doubling the flash storage would increase the cost that much to need a $50+ price increase for the product to be viable.

The second mistake is thinking that the consumer should worry about the margins Nintendo makes selling the hardware and not about getting a product that doesn't require accesories to get acceptable quality of life for a normal use of the system.

Nintendo made those design decisions, so they have to live with them and give the third parties the workarounds around them to make their relationships work, because it's apparent that they are not willing to take the loss.

Back on the storage discussion threads, people said that it wouldn't be a problem because magic compression for switch games would make the games small enough compared to their ps4/xb/pc counterparts. It seems that was a naive asumption.

 

[mrk8885]

My head is about to explode after arguing with people on Facebook....


People who don't see the difference between PS4 installing a game from a disc vs a switch physical game having a mandatory patch to complete the game.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh


I

 

[guek]

Does Nintendo really hold none of the blame with some of you?

Unless you want to get pissy that the Switch is a hybrid console instead of a traditional piece of hardware, the only area where nintendo is to blame is approving this kind of nonsense in the first place. Yes they deserve some of the blame because this situation is completely avoidable within the confines of the Switch as a platform if they only had the balls to put their foot down on this issue.

What I find misguided is all the whining about a lack of space when a $50 price hike for anything less than 128GB would have been a very poor value.

 

[NoHeDidn't]

Lets be honest those who purchased a Switch are gonna defend these tactics and any other cost saving tactics.*Cost saving for the industry not for the customers*

Whats worse is now your telling me on top of having to buy extra harddrive space (again Nintendo cut costs for themselves only) developers are also cutting themselves costs on cart storage and forcing us to cover the costs via wasting precious data?

Damn have we become complacent enablers.

 

[RootCause]

My head is about to explode after arguing with people on Facebook....


People who don't see the difference between PS4 installing a game from a disc vs a switch physical game having a mandatory patch to complete the game.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh


I

Simple enough. You can't play the switch version without internet. Can't be more clear than that. 😛

Lets be honest those who purchased a Switch are gonna defend these tactics and any other cost saving tactics.*Cost saving for the industry not for the customers*

Whats worse is now your telling me on top of having to buy extra harddrive space (again Nintendo cut costs for themselves only) developers are also cutting themselves costs on cart storage and forcing us to cover the costs via wasting precious data?

Damn have we become complacent enablers.

Well, not all of us. I think it's crap, and I'm not supporting any game that does this. I would've preferred to pay the so called switch tax. At least I'd actually own the full game.

 

[Ridley327]

Lets be honest those who purchased a Switch are gonna defend these tactics and any other cost saving tactics.*Cost saving for the industry not for the customers*

Whats worse is now your telling me on top of having to buy extra harddrive space (again Nintendo cut costs for themselves only) developers are also cutting themselves costs on cart storage and forcing us to cover the costs via wasting precious data?

Damn have we become complacent enablers.

I'm not sure what thread you're reading, but there's not much defending going on here.

 

[shiyrley]

Lets be honest those who purchased a Switch are gonna defend these tactics and any other cost saving tactics.

I am the OP of this thread
I own a Switch and love it
I created this thread to complain about this tactic
What the fuck

 

[@MUWANdo]

Devil's advocate: has anyone considered that high-capacity carts might simply not be available right now?

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

You release on a full size cart at PS4/X1 parity price = definitely make less money

You release on a full size cart, at a higher price to compensate = potentially make less money

You go with a smaller cart, and have the rest as a download = potentially make less money

You say fuck the cart issue altogether, and go digital only = potentially make less money

How can devs/pubs win? What is the solution to he problem Nintendo has created?

Nintendo could decrease the profit they make on the game to compensate for the price of the higher memory cartridge until the prices fall. Now I don't expect Nintendo to do that but that's the only way I see there being none of the problems you said.

 

[shiyrley]

Devil's advocate: has anyone considered that high-capacity carts might simply not be available right now?

As in yet?
Dragon Quest Heroes 1+2 exists

 

[plagiarize]

I am the OP of this thread
I own a Switch and love it
I created this thread to complain about this tactic
What the fuck

Yeah. There's plenty of switch owners in here condemning this stupidity. I literally preorders this game just yesterday. I am glad this post exists because I'd have been even more pissed if I'd only found out after buying it.

 

[mrk8885]

I enjoy this hypothetical example of the videogame future:


Want to play Megaman 3 on my NES
Set my NES back up
Dig out my Mega Man 3 cartridge
"This game requires a mandatory patch download to run"
Click OK
"Are you connected to the internet?"
Click Yes
Hourglass....hourglass....spinning...waiting...

"Cannot connect to Megaman 3 download servers. Servers are no longer available.

ERROR CODE 1234hahahaPhysicalCantSaveYouNow"

Game is not playable. Please try again later.

 

[zenosparadox]

If indeed 60% of the game must be downloaded to go with the physical release, then WB loses a sale from me. It is as simple as that.

 

[Seik]

Nintendo is not to blame for making carts games again or having only 32Gb of internal memory. (Basically, memory isn't even the problem here, it's a useless physical product, even more useless than the base version of Evil Within without its day 1 patch.)

Nintendo is to blame for authorizing developers at WB releasing an offline Single Player game that you won't be able to play without downloading an extra 13Gb.

Nintendo is to blame for not selling higher capacity carts to publishers at a price that permits them to release their products at a similar price than the other platforms.

AND

Warner Brothers is to blame for making a fucking shitty turn-around like this. As I said, though, both are to blame for this mess.

I wanted to buy LCU because I heard a lot of good about it during it's Wii U lifetime, but now they can shove it deeeeeeeeep.

 

[fernoca]

Well, there goes the advantage of cartridges.

Really weird decision.
Breath of the Wild is 13GB,so if cart size was an issue, then why not use the same size as Zelda and leave a smaller download or install if anything.

Dragon Quest Heroes is 32GB also, and that was released physically in Japan. Did that required a huge download too?

 

[Ridley327]

Well, there goes the advantage of cartridges.

Really weird decision.
Breath of the Wild is 13GB,so if cart size was an issue, then why not use the same size as Zelda and leave a smaller download or install if anything.

Dragon Quest Heroes is 32GB also, and that was released physically in Japan. Did that required a huge download too?

No, but it is currently the only game that requires an SD card to be able to download it. Since I believe that it's a flat 32 GB, that would mean you would need a 64GB card to make it work.

 

[Experien]

Devil's advocate: has anyone considered that high-capacity carts might simply not be available right now?

Zelda was over 13GB on a Switch. Not sure if these carts follow memory trends but most of them are 8GB based so it theoretically was on a 16GB card. I wouldn't be surprised if 32GB costs a bit more but I'd say it probably is available.

But what do I know?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

You release on a full size cart at PS4/X1 parity price = definitely make less money

You release on a full size cart, at a higher price to compensate = potentially make less money

You go with a smaller cart, and have the rest as a download = potentially make less money

You say fuck the cart issue altogether, and go digital only = potentially make less money

How can devs/pubs win? What is the solution to he problem Nintendo has created?

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. The problem on this board is that some people get so fixated on a single idea, and are so sure what they think is right, they ignore everything else. You honestly think media prices are the ONLY factor in costs or how devs make money? Are you serious? You know nothing about the relative dev costs. The royalty fees. Advertising/marketing assistance. Nope, just that game cards are some completely unknown higher price than discs

 

[b00_thegh0st]

Well, looks like WB lost my money. This makes no sense to the consumer whatever the culprit or reason is.

 

[guek]

No, but it is currently the only game that requires an SD card to be able to download it. Since I believe that it's a flat 32 GB, that would mean you would need a 64GB card to make it work.

I believe the point is you don't need to download over half the game on day 1 if you buy it physical.

It bears repeating that the decision to go for an 8GB cart over a 16GB cart for LC makes no sense when the cost difference should amount to peanuts.

 

[Ridley327]

I believe the point is you don't need to download over half the game on day 1 if you buy it physical.

It bears repeating that the decision to go for an 8GB cart over a 16GB cart for LC makes no sense when the cost difference should amount to peanuts.

Right, I got that part. No matter where you grab it, it's all there.

 

[shiyrley]

I believe the point is you don't need to download over half the game on day 1 if you buy it physical.

It bears repeating that the decision to go for an 8GB cart over a 16GB cart for LC makes no sense when the cost difference should amount to peanuts.

Actually Lego City would require a 32 GB cart. It's 7.1 GB + 13 GB, not 13 GB alone.

 

[MUnited83]

This is not acceptable if publishers are trying to get around paying for carts

It's actually very acceptable if they are trying to make costs of manufacturing as close as the other versions.
Blame Nintendo for the crappy pricing.

 

[Gin]

worse thing is.. when low sales happen due to this decision,
WB will be inclined to support the switch much less now :/

 

[spock]

Well this changes my plans of buying the game. Really wanted to try this one, but that's spoke shady non sense that kills the point of a cartridge to begin with.

 

[Fdkn]

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. The problem on this board is that some people get so fixated on a single idea, and are so sure what they think is right, they ignore everything else. You honestly think media prices are the ONLY factor in costs or how devs make money? Are you serious? You know nothing about the relative dev costs. The royalty fees. Advertising/marketing assistance. Nope, just that game cards are some completely unknown higher price than discs

It's the only factor that is different. Distribution and marketing costs should be comparable, platform holder fees should be the same unless Nintendo is willing to make less money (lol) and retailer fees should be the same too.

In the end, these situations are happening for a reason and I'm sure that reason is more about numbers and less about self sabotage or 'hating' Nintendo

 

[VyechnayaSlava]

I'm going to be honest, as someone who is all digital with a 256 gb card I see this as a good thing to keep costs down and avoid the "Switch Tax". It helps to keep physical costs down to avoid a more expensive digital release, and I'm all for that. It sucks for those without a big SD card, but I'm okay with it

 

[guek]

Actually Lego City would require a 32 GB cart. It's 7.1 GB + 13 GB, not 13 GB alone.

It would require a 32GB cart if it were to run without any patch but at the very least, being forced to download a 5GB day one patch is MUCH preferable to 13GB. Going for a 8GB cart over 16GB in order to save pennies is a slap in the face of consumers.

 

[Gin]

Im trying to go through the comments - but all we are doing is playing the blame game between Nintendo and WB

Can anyone answer this .... has WB issued any sort of response to this download issue?

 

[K.Jack]

That's not how it works. That's not how it works at all. The problem on this board is that some people get so fixated on a single idea, and are so sure what they think is right, they ignore everything else. You honestly think media prices are the ONLY factor in costs or how devs make money? Are you serious? You know nothing about the relative dev costs. The royalty fees. Advertising/marketing assistance. Nope, just that game cards are some completely unknown higher price than discs

Where did I say or imply that "media prices are the ONLY factor in costs or how devs make money"?

We are currently talking about how the media cost is higher. We know the media cost is higher. We know that that higher cost is making devs/pubs make decisions. LCU being on a smaller cart is a decision based on the cost of media.

That is why the discussion is focused on media costs, not because anyone is dumb enough to purport that dev's profits are primarily centered around this cost.

 

[Seil]

I'm going to be honest, as someone who is all digital with a 256 gb card I see this as a good thing to keep costs down and avoid the "Switch Tax". It helps to keep physical costs down to avoid a more expensive digital release, and I'm all for that. It sucks for those without a big SD card, but I'm okay with it

Surely, as someone who is all digital, you realize you're already being gouged out the ass right? Paying full MSRP for something with an infinite supply, no physical production costs, etc? Particularly nasty when you realize that retailers like Amazon and Best Buy have no qualms about offering services that provide a 20% discount day 1 on physical games when they still have to be turning a profit. Even though those physical copies actually have to be manufactured, shipped etc.

If anything this situation happening when this title is still $60 retail is atrocious.

 

[foltzie1]

Disappointing. Was compression then a mandatory install not an option?

 

[nicoga3000]

I wonder how much per cartridge they saved by going this route. I imagine a lot of people will not be thrilled by this info.

 

[Fdkn]

I wonder how much per cartridge they saved by going this route. I imagine a lot of people will not be thrilled by this info.

I guess the same exact money Nintendo gained by charging 3rd parties a different price depending on cartridge size.