It goes both way.Conspiracy-Age in full force.
It goes both way.Conspiracy-Age in full force.
Ah yes, the false flag attack take. So what's your theory? They bombed themselves? In the hopes of reversing their war fortunes?
Yes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...d-regime-dropped-chemical-bombs-on-civilians/
Conspiracy-Age in full force.
I am still sceptical about the circumstances behind the sarin deaths. It does not make sense for the Assad regime to use chemical weapons once much less twice but everyone has accepted it on the pretext that Assad sprays chemical warfare routinely, cos reasons.
Bullshit.
Yes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...d-regime-dropped-chemical-bombs-on-civilians/
Conspiracy-Age in full force.
Why does Syria use chemicals in the first place, no matter against who?Actually, that report concluded both Daesh and the Syrian airforces used chemicals in attacks. The question is: did the Syrian airforce purposefully attack civilians with chemicals?
Actually, that report concluded both Daesh and the Syrian airforces used chemicals in attacks. The question is: did the Syrian airforce purposefully attack civilians with chemicals?
I am still sceptical about the circumstances behind the sarin deaths. It does not make sense for the Assad regime to use chemical weapons once much less twice but everyone has accepted it on the pretext that Assad sprays chemical warfare routinely, cos reasons.
Bullshit.
Actually, that report concluded both Daesh and the Syrian airforces used chemicals in attacks. The question is: did the Syrian airforce purposefully attack civilians with chemicals?
Actually, that report concluded both Daesh and the Syrian airforces used chemicals in attacks. The question is: did the Syrian airforce purposefully attack civilians with chemicals?
Just waking up to the news. Of course GAF never sleeps and there's already a 21 page thread.
Anyways, extremely reckless action by US. This hubris induced, Judge Dredd approach has to stop. Why couldn't we wait for the investigation?
Is this post from 2013 when Assad perpetuated a gas attack under Obama, or where were you then? Where you skeptical of the stories then? Why not? Why is it only "false flag!!!" when America attacks?
Be honest, did you think of this yourself, or did you get the idea from conspiracy social media posts, blogs, websites, etc?
The fact that this surrounds "Trump" means there is going to be a lot of conspiratorial fake news idiocy around it. Did we learn nothing from the election season??
Yep. This strike was serious. But so was using chemical weapons - once again - against non-combatants (I am not starting about the bombing of the hospital, because the US has an own track records when it comes to that).
I absolutely support the usage of military actions as a repressive measure to prevent further strikes of the regime with chemical weapons. Assad - and everyone supporting him - must know now that the next time he uses nerve gas against towns hold by rebels, his military force has to pay an even bigger price.
Yes, this could escalate, but the idea behind repressive measures isn't escalation but de-escalation.
Actually, that report concluded both Daesh and the Syrian airforces used chemicals in attacks. The question is: did the Syrian airforce purposefully attack civilians with chemicals?
Turkey actually praised the bombing. But yea, I agree with postYou, just like Trump, are throwing diplomacy out with the bathwater. Of course bombing Assad's assets and weapons is a good idea by itself, especially because of the heinous acts committed in the last couple of weeks. If Syria were in a political bubble I'd condone it, too.
But diplomacy is what you're forgetting. It's the invisible spiderweb that reaches across the whole globe and connects all nations and countries. Pluck a thread here and your actions have far-reaching consequences, far beyond the thread you plucked (which you could pluck for totally sound reasons).
By doing this Trump just majorly compromised relations with Russia, Turkey, etc, etc.
Yes, bombing chemical weapon/military assets is a good thing to do, but not in the world's tightest diplomatic hot spot. Probably the densest diplomatic part of the web right now.
Conservatives and people on the Right already praising Trump for this. Suddenly being against Assad is morally justified--if only some people had thought so for the last 3-5 years.
How do you use chemical weapons and not have a major risk of it hitting civilians? These weapons aren't exactly limited to killing just soldiers or terrorist. That is why we don't use them, and certainly not in civilian areas.I was here in 2013 asking similar questions about the circumstances. I don't question whether chemicals were used, but rather whether they used to specifically target civilians: something that any reasonable person would question, especially considering the regime was threatened with military action by Western powers.
I want to be certain in my own mind, before accepting and agreeing to a war, of the details - details which hardly anyone knows or understands for that matter. There are people here who have accepted it purely on the pretext that Assad, a man who has led his country into a brutal war with little regard to his own people, has done the exact thing that would give the US a moral justification to launch a war. After Iraq, I need more than coincidence or vague reporting - which is what we have here.
If that makes me a conspiratorial figure as a result, go figure.
You, just like Trump, are throwing diplomacy out with the bathwater. Of course bombing Assad's assets and weapons is a good idea by itself, especially because of the heinous acts committed in the last couple of weeks. If Syria were in a political bubble I'd condone it, too.
But diplomacy is what you're forgetting. It's the invisible spiderweb that reaches across the whole globe and connects all nations and countries. Pluck a thread here and your actions have far-reaching consequences, far beyond the thread you plucked (which you could pluck for totally sound reasons).
By doing this Trump just majorly compromised relations with Russia, Turkey, etc, etc.
Yes, bombing chemical weapon/military assets is a good thing to do, but not in the world's tightest diplomatic hot spot. Probably the densest diplomatic part of the web right now.
This is what gets me... We just had a bad couple weeks in Raqqa and Mosul. One of our airstrikes killed what, an estimated ~200 people? No fanfare, muted media response, inevitable "wait for investigation", etc.Well Trump made it seem like his action was to prevent further attacks. in other words, he considered the base an imminent threat to civilians.
Why does Syria use chemicals in the first place, no matter against who?
The problem with Gas weapons (and one reason why they are banned) is that "purposefully attacking" doesn't work, especially in cities.
Wouldn't Daesh have claimed it?
This is what gets me... We just had a bad couple weeks in Raqqa and Mosul. One of our airstrikes killed what, an estimated ~200 people? No fanfare, muted media response, inevitable "wait for investigation", etc.
And then suddenly this happens in Idlib and we get emergency UNSC meetings, tons of media coverage and fanfare, and now direct US action.
Aside from the duplicitousness... this shit just seems so off.
I was here in 2013 asking similar questions about the circumstances. I don't question whether chemicals were used, but rather whether they used to specifically target civilians: something that any reasonable person would question, especially considering the regime was threatened with military action by Western powers.
I want to be certain in my own mind, before accepting and agreeing to a war, of the details - details which hardly anyone knows or understands for that matter. There are people here who have accepted it purely on the pretext that Assad, a man who has led his country into a brutal war with little regard to his own people, has done the exact thing that would give the US a moral justification to launch a war. After Iraq, I need more than coincidence or vague reporting - which is what we have here.
This argument undermines your whole previous statement about why Assad would use chemicals though.Cos they don't care about collateral?
I am still sceptical about the circumstances behind the sarin deaths. It does not make sense for the Assad regime to use chemical weapons once much less twice but everyone has accepted it on the pretext that Assad sprays chemical warfare routinely, cos reasons.
Bullshit.
Turkey actually praised the bombing. But yea, I agree with post
I wouldn't worry too much about relations with Russia and Turkey. Trump will appease them by giving Ukraine to Russia and throwing some bones towards Turkey.
Trump doesn't care anything about Ukraine and loves oil so he would love to trade eastern Europe for the middle east (and that's not even taking into account his deep ties to Russia/Turkey).
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I feel a little out of my depth commenting on this without much more reading, but I really don't get some of the WW3 posts, or the deflection around chemical weapons like there isn't something that needs to be done. Then again all the weird ass false flag comments from Trump supporters and some Democrats is only making me even more confused.
You, just like Trump, are throwing diplomacy out with the bathwater. Of course bombing Assad's assets and weapons is a good idea by itself, especially because of the heinous acts committed in the last couple of weeks. If Syria were in a political bubble I'd condone it, too.
But diplomacy is what you're forgetting. It's the invisible spiderweb that reaches across the whole globe and connects all nations and countries. Pluck a thread here and your actions have far-reaching consequences, far beyond the thread you plucked (which you could pluck for totally sound reasons).
By doing this Trump just majorly compromised relations with Russia, Turkey, etc, etc.
Yes, bombing chemical weapon/military assets is a good thing to do, but not in the world's tightest diplomatic hot spot. Probably the densest diplomatic part of the web right now.
This argument undermines your whole previous statement about why Assad would use chemicals though.
How do you use chemical weapons and not have a major risk of it hitting civilians? These weapons aren't exactly limited to killing just soldiers or terrorist. That is why we don't use them, and certainly not in civilian areas.
@ bolded, not quite, they bombed SAA at Dier Ezhor several months ago.This airbase strike is the first time that the US has conducted military action against the Syrian military. It leaves a lot of questions as to what comes next, and how Russia and Assad will respond. That's why it's so important.
What has diplomacy achieved here? Between the years this conflict has been going on and the China and Russian Vetos at the UN security council?
I'd love to see your idea of diplomacy being effective, but the simple fact is that it's failed even before Trump became president.
I don't see how that is of much relevance here. If you agree that chemical weapons are used, it doesn't matter if they target civilians with it or not. The things are banned and shouldn't be used.This is my assessment of it: sarin was used with no regard to civilians in the area. I think I should clarify that: my scepticism was on the idea that civilians are being purposefully targeted by the regime with chemical weapons.
I'm saying diplomacy is a loaded gun. If you're not careful with it, things get worse.
This is what gets me... We just had a bad couple weeks in Raqqa and Mosul. One of our airstrikes killed what, an estimated ~200 people? No fanfare, muted media response, inevitable "wait for investigation", etc.
And then suddenly this happens in Idlib and we get emergency UNSC meetings, tons of media coverage and fanfare, and now direct US action.
Aside from the duplicitousness... this shit just seems so off.
I've read really complex things about Turkey's position on the whole thing, perhaps I'm misremembering it. Like, I swear I read they support Assad (because of the Kurdish rebels thing)?
Diplomacy proving itself the tangled spiderweb
A Russian spokesperson has already come out saying it's a problem - is that just classic postmodern political posturing?
Thats because they were "humanely" killed, with weapons that had billions spent on them in order to do so.
Sarin gas tho? Everyone will fucking turn their heads and condemn it. Aint that ironic?
Yea I'm sure Turkey is split. I've been watching BBC all day and their official position along with China's is basically "good work"
Thats because they were "humanely" killed, with weapons that had billions spent on them in order to do so.
Sarin gas tho? Everyone will fucking turn their heads and condemn it. Aint that ironic?
Are you suggesting that there is no difference between normalizing conventional weapon use and chemical weapons?
Thats because they were "humanely" killed, with weapons that had billions spent on them in order to do so.
Sarin gas tho? Everyone will fucking turn their heads and condemn it. Aint that ironic?
There is no difference, the people are dead and thousands are fleeing.
Initial symptoms following exposure to sarin are a runny nose, tightness in the chest and constriction of the pupils. Soon after, the victim has difficulty breathing and experiences nausea and drooling. As the victim continues to lose control of bodily functions, the victim vomits, defecates and urinates. This phase is followed by twitching and jerking. Ultimately, the victim becomes comatose and suffocates in a series of convulsive spasms.
So most of the western world has wanted to depose Assad since this Civil War started. The problem was he is a close ally of Putin and Russia, and generally speaking China wasn't big on the idea of NATO overthrowing another middle eastern government. So Russia joined in to fight the Islamic State in Syria, but "inadvertently" kept bombing the living hell out of Syrian Rebels. Russia was even helping the Assad Regime try to cover up what he did, their government was claiming the chemical weapons belongs to the rebels and were collateral damage from a Russian air strike.
Unsurprisingly the Democrats under Obama wanted to get involved but were criticized by the Republicans. So Obama was really passive in his handling of Syria. This isn't even the first time Assad has used Chemical Weapons, by my count I think it's the 3rd. But people like John McCain, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and various Republicans didn't care and said we shouldn't contribute to destabilizing Syria--basically being okay with Assad remaining in power. Shit, like a day or two before the Chemical Weapons attack, Rex Tillerson basically said the US was going to stay out of it, which gave Assad the idea that he could do what he wanted.
The WW3 rhetoric is rooted in the idea that the US and NATO would invade Syria to overthrow Assad, then Russia and China would band together to fight with Assad, and we're in another World War. I seriously doubt that since the evidence now backs the idea that Assad once again used Chemical Weapons on civilians, and it's hard to imagine China allying itself with a country like that. They may saber-rattle often, but they're not stupid.