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[Mifune]

Yes, we know that the revenue streams are greater with games as a service. But by allocating budgets to only these games, MS is doing nothing but entering into direct competition with the big gaas boys. Maybe that's what they want but it doesn't strike me as any safer of a strategy than funding both gaas and traditional single-player games i.e. staying the course.

I wish them luck but urge them to consider the value of big-budget single player games. Relegating them to third parties is bad for their own portfolio and, ultimately, the medium at large. It was inevitable that pure SP experiences would dwindle eventually, so it's not surprising to read Spencer's comments, but it is disheartening to anyone who grew up on those types of games.

I'm cool with getting my SP kicks elsewhere but it's strange to hear a Big Three head put this in such stark terms - yeah games like Zelda are great and do great but it's hard to sell them (so we're not gonna try anymore).

Anyway, still looking forward to Crackdown and Gears.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Actually, this makes it a little clearer:

That highest point? January 2017

Most hype Scalebound ever had was when it was canceled.

Just sad.

 

[RobRivers]

I have nearly no time to play multiplayer games, i prefer single player experience. So i hope we have more single player experiences.

 

[Papacheeks]

All of what you are saying is true but they are making a literal killing on microtransactions for GTA Online. I can't remember whether this revenue milestone was for a single quarter or for the most recent fiscal year but GTA Online is making Take Two more than a billion in revenue. That's enough to account for approximately 25,000,000 new copies of the game.

You didn't read anything I said about how the game was selling off of it's campaign when it launched because online came later after it launched.

Also they were not making ton's in the beginning on micro transactions, they are now as the community grew and they released it on PS4,XBOX ONE.

The initial launch for that game sold like 10 million or so copies and a lot of it was on it's single player.

GTA series didn't break records in previous iterations because of multiplayer. Maybe GTA V has after it launched and multiplayer took off. But most of what was shown for GTA V was all about campaign. There was one single player trailer and a tease at the end of it's second/third campaign trailer. Everything else was on the campaign.

I'v done enough trying to get my point across that GTA V started out with an amazing open world game that sold a lot prior to it's online launch based on teh brand and campaign alone.

My whole point was that GTA online's popularity now based a lot on mods and added modes from community feedback came into being organically. The changes , modes and mods they made were based off of feedback and the community after people were playing it.

Microsoft's approach is them making online community features without letting the community decide if they want that or if it's something someone from the community creates and becomes a official update.

 

[Wedzi]

Actually, this makes it a little clearer:



That highest point? January 2017

Most hype Scalebound ever had was when it was canceled.

Just sad.

It's not like their other games do that much better. Granted State of Decay does very well, as so do their other big IPs Gears, Halo, and Forza.

Which brings us back to the start lol

 

[Zeta Oni]

It's not like their other games do that much better. Granted State of Decay does very well, as so do their other big IPs Gears, Halo, and Forza.

Which brings us back to the start lol

But there's a key difference:

Crackdown 3 and State of Decay 2 have yet to begin their marketing cycles, and have almost no footage outside announcements trailers and a 2 year old tech demo in the case of Crackdown 3.

Scalebound, by the time it was canceled, had several gameplay demonstrations that repeatedly failed to deliver.

If E3 comes around and that chart looks the same, then I would start worrying. As it stand now however, we haven't seen enough of these titles for there to be hype in the first place.

Sea of thieves is the exception here because that games release date and marketing has been all types of weird, I'm in the alpha and even I'm still kinda figuring out what its suppose to be, although I have a better idea now than before. If they can get some popular streamers, I feel this will take off, but only if the community is there.

 

[JaggedSac]

I wonder what this could be.......

Let’s Talk About Assassin’s Creed: A Panel Discussion

Why you keep pimping AC?

 

[EmiPrime]

What are you talking about?

The point being made is that there was no hype for the game anywhere, not just GAF.

Yeah because the game didn't look very good. Despite those misgivings this was still a Platinum Games production and there was still the hope deep down, it would be a great game by the time it was done and that maybe it was just demoing poorly, hence the explosion of posts after the cancellation.

I don't know if it would. Sadly the audience just isn't there. And yes, Neogaf does mostly skew towards PlayStation but you barely heard any port begging type posts about Scalebound. There was very little hype.

If it had come out at the same time as Scorpio and rode that hype wave along with a playable demo followed by strings of 9s and 10s in reviews, I think it could have taken off in a big way.

There wasn't much in the way of port begging because the game looked dull to play (that and it being published and funded by Microsoft makes such posts particularly stupid) but if anyone could have turned it around it was Kamiya. That's where the disappointment comes from.

 

[JaggedSac]

Scalebound, by the time it was canceled, had several gameplay demonstrations that repeatedly failed to deliver.

That last coop gameplay demo that gave was rough, and I mean rough.

 

[Wedzi]

But there's a key difference:

Crackdown 3 and State of Decay 2 have yet to begin their marketing cycles, and have almost no footage outside announcements trailers and a 2 year old tech demo in the case of Crackdown 3.

Scalebound, by the time it was canceled, had several gameplay demonstrations that repeatedly failed to deliver.

If E3 comes around and that chart looks the same, then I would start worrying. As it stand now however, we haven't seen enough of these titles for there to be hype in the first place.

Sea of thieves is the exception here because that games release date and marketing has been all types of weird, I'm in the alpha and even I'm still kinda figuring out what its suppose to be, although I have a better idea now than before. If they can get some popular streamers, I feel this will take off, but only if the community is there.

That's the crazy thing, State of Decay has almost no marketing but check out it's trends

It's by far their most popular game even with just the one trailer.
Btw does anyone know if State of Decay 2 will see a Steam release?

 

[Zeta Oni]

That last coop gameplay demo that gave was rough, and I mean rough.

Looking back at the timeline....

It might have been more than rough, it might have been responsible for killing the project entirely.

Cause following that presentation, we never saw any footage of Scalebound again. Even despite the fact there was a behind-the-scenes build with footage we never got a chance to see at Gamescom that year.

That's the crazy thing, State of Decay has almost no marketing but check out it's trends

It's by far their most popular game even with just the one trailer.
Btw does anyone know if State of Decay 2 will see a Steam release?

Damn, I did not know State of Decay was that popular.

If 2 really does deliver, they may actually have something here.

 

[BleedOrange]

It's hard to make inferences from these graphs but here's one that compares Crackdown, State of Decay and Horizon Zero Dawn (a game that was getting a lot of attention here on GAF).

It got comparatively the same amount of interest over the last 6 months leading up to it's launch/review cycle.

What this tells me is that we as consumers cannot draw many conclusions from these types of graphs, because it's entirely up to the end quality of the game to determine whether it succeeds or not.

I'm as bummed about Scalebound's cancellation as a lot of you guys are, but I trust that the look the Xbox leadership was getting behind-the-scenes was not good.

What I am extremely concerned about is Phils statements regarding the Xbox platform's investment in Single Player games

 

[BleedOrange]

That's the thing though. The third party publishers don't have the guts to do it, so a big demand for single-player games is not being catered to. It's the role of platform holders to fill that void. Both Sony and Nintendo release games no one else does. They feel like they serve a purpose. What purpose does MS serve in gaming when they only release the sort of games everyone else is doing?

Tentpole Single-Player games also serve the purpose of displaying your hardware platform in all its glory. With the all the skill and resources of well-funded first-party developer working on it you can create some amazing looking games (see, Uncharted 4, H:ZD, even Gears 4 and Halo 5 on relatively modest hardware). These kinds of graphical powerhouses no doubt resonate with the larger, less hardcore audience.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

That's the crazy thing, State of Decay has almost no marketing but check out it's trends

It's by far their most popular game even with just the one trailer.
Btw does anyone know if State of Decay 2 will see a Steam release?

That's because it already has an invested audience, the first game sold what, 4 million? You then add in the fact the dev is active and engaged with its community then of course it will have positive trends against a brand new IP and another that's been quiet for more than a year.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Zombie games generally jive well with the market as well. Some on Gaf are beyond tired of them but they have good potential. I expect State of Decay and Days Gone to perform well. The most recent AAA zombie game underperformed (Dead Rising 4) but I'm going to put the blame on Capcom more than anything else.

 

[EmiPrime]

I'm all for zombie games. Give me an iZombie Telltale game!

 

[BleedOrange]

Zombie games generally jive well with the market as well. Some on Gaf are beyond tired of them but they have good potential. I expect State of Decay and Days Gone to perform well. The most recent AAA zombie game underperformed (Dead Rising 4) but I'm going to put the blame on Capcom more than anything else.

Goofy zombies are dumb. People want zombies which actually pose a threat.

 

[SenseiAsad]

I wonder what this could be.......

Let’s Talk About Assassin’s Creed: A Panel Discussion

Is it gonna be anything more than just a marketing deal and maybe some DLC? Because who actually cares about Assassin's Creed anymore?

 

[Poodlestrike]

Is it gonna be anything more than just a marketing deal and maybe some DLC? Because who actually cares about Assassin's Creed anymore?

I will admit, I'm cautiously hyped. Loooove Ancient Egypt, and the potential for a soft reboot to bring back the modern day hook in a meaningful way has me a little bit giddy.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Goofy zombies are dumb. People want zombies which actually pose a threat.

Eh, Dead Rising 3 sold well.

 

[JaggedSac]

They are doing a Crackdown X Assassin's Creed game.

 

[Wedzi]

That's because it already has an invested audience, the first game sold what, 4 million? You then add in the fact the dev is active and engaged with its community then of course it will have positive trends against a brand new IP and another that's been quiet for more than a year.

True, but it's just to show a comparison, not to incite anything negative against the other games on that list. Also I began the chart around E3 2014, when Crackdown and Scalebound were announced. If anything this speaks more about the demand for Crackdown compared to other liked IPs making their return like Crash or something.

 

[peppers]

Regarding those Phil Spencer quotes:
Are GaaS and singleplayer experiences mutually exclusive though? Something like Hitman could easily be a Game Pass "system seller" IMO.
In fact, I believe Quantum Break specifically could have benefitted from this model (I mean the game is literally divided into episodes). At least some of its pacing problems could have been avoided. Not sure it would have sold better though.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Regarding those Phil Spencer quotes:
Are GaaS and singleplayer experiences mutually exclusive though? Something like Hitman could easily be a Game Pass "system seller" IMO.
In fact, I believe Quantum Break specifically could have benefitted from this model (I mean the game is literally divided into episodes). At least some of its pacing problems could have been avoided. Not sure it would have sold better though.

I do think that GamePass is going to have a large focus when it comes to Xbox's future. Using it to launch single player focused games so that money is made by bolstering subscription numbers rather than just the usual exchange could be the type of forward thinking MS needs, but it sounds risky, hence I would imagine it hasn't been done previously.

So no, I don't think they are mutually exclusive, but I do think this is uncharted territory making predicting things a little hard.

 

[Strootman]

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/858704068214104064

Ori 2 probably.

 

[Zeta Oni]

https://twitter.com/XboxP3/status/858704068214104064

Ori 2 probably.

What are the chances they go crazy this year and launch a SP only game on GamePass only a month after launching the service?

 

[gamz]

What are the chances they go crazy this year and launch a SP only game on GamePass only a month after launching the service?

Very likely.

 

[Steverulez]

What are the chances they go crazy this year and launch a SP only game on GamePass only a month after launching the service?

If they want to see what it can do, then they will do it the first chance they get.

I don't know how many games they've got that could justify going straight into it though

If I were them I'd have greenlit a few smaller titles expressly for that purpose but it depends what they get pitched etc I guess

 

[Wedzi]

Game Pass is Phil's baby. He'll do what it takes to make it successful so launching a game on the service is very likely. I doubt it'll be a large game but we've seen games launch on PS Plus before and be very successful. Ori 2, Cup Head, Below, could all be candidates. With the latter two also launching on steam, it could give the developers some freedom with launching on a new platform like Game Pass.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

I have nearly no time to play multiplayer games, i prefer single player experience. So i hope we have more single player experiences.

Lol such a niave opinion...can you not see how someone in the exact situation as yourself might prefer the opposite. When i was in university i had 0 time to enjoy/get into a single player game like mass effect. I had to specifically wait for the summer so i could enjoy it. If i hadnt waited id be playing 1-4 hours here and there once ever other week or so and i wouldnt have been able to enjoy/follow the story...id basically be playing catch up everytime i booted it up....games like bf4 however were perfect for me... I could hop on and unwind with some friends for a few hours, not play for weeks when busy with school work and ultimately return to the game without having missed a beat.

 

[black070]

Lol such a niave opinion...can you not see how someone in the exact situation as yourself might prefer the opposite. When i was in university i had 0 time to enjoy/get into a single player game like mass effect. I had to specifically wait for the summer so i could enjoy it. If i hadnt waited id be playing 1-4 hours here and there once ever other week or so and i wouldnt have been able to enjoy/follow the story...id basically be playing catch up everytime i booted it up....games like bf4 however were perfect for me... I could hop on and unwind with some friends for a few hours, not play for weeks when busy with school work and ultimately return to the game without having missed a beat.

You singled that post out over nothing, yeesh.

 

[Zedox]

What are the chances they go crazy this year and launch a SP only game on GamePass only a month after launching the service?

I been stating that it would be a smart idea and i hope that they do. Two AAA games on the service would make me buy it yearly. $120 a year for this service vs. two individual games...it's a no brainer. Once you get quality titles on the service it would be like Netflix that because it's so small a payment it is negligible. Get more people to sign up for it.

It's all about the subs. If you want people on your sub, gotta provide value. Changing the model is smart. I'm looking forward to this E3 and see what they do.

Announcing exclusive single player Xbox play anywhere title...yea, that would literally embody what Phil Spencer's vision for Xbox.

I think we will see a good number of Xbox Play Anywhere games at E3 (mainly indies)
Xbox Play Anywhere + Xbox Game Pass = Getting PC users to get a sub...it's literally a Trojan horse for it. This is probably how "MS is getting into PC gaming"...but they need time to get more games on the PC side for it to work. We shall see. They just gotta figure out their store.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Any major SP games released on Game Preview are going to be episodic, I feel. Gotta keep those subscribers subscribed until it becomes a habit/part of the budget.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Any major SP games released on Game Preview are going to be episodic, I feel. Gotta keep those subscribers subscribed until it becomes a habit/part of the budget.

I been stating that it would be a smart idea and i hope that they do. Two AAA games on the service would make me buy it yearly. $120 a year for this service vs. two individual games...it's a no brainer. Once you get quality titles on the service it would be like Netflix that because it's so small a payment it is negligible. Get more people to sign up for it.

It's all about the subs. If you want people on your sub, gotta provide value. Changing the model is smart. I'm looking forward to this E3 and see what they do.

Announcing exclusive single player Xbox play anywhere title...yea, that would literally embody what Phil Spencer's vision for Xbox.

I think we will see a good number of Xbox Play Anywhere games at E3 (mainly indies)
Xbox Play Anywhere + Xbox Game Pass = Getting PC users to get a sub...it's literally a Trojan horse for it. This is probably how "MS is getting into PC gaming"...but they need time to get more games on the PC side for it to work. We shall see. They just gotta figure out their store.

If they want to see what it can do, then they will do it the first chance they get.

I don't know how many games they've got that could justify going straight into it though

If I were them I'd have greenlit a few smaller titles expressly for that purpose but it depends what they get pitched etc I guess

Very likely.

So whats funny about this to me is that the concept of GamePass isn't all that unfamiliar to PC players or gaming in general, in particular I remember this lovely creation:

Spoiler

(Remind anyone else of the OG Xbox ?)

What I'm thinking is that right now, there's a category of game that don't fit into either the "Indie" category or the "AAA" space that have struggled for a long time since the death of what we used to refer to as "AA" games.

Rather than let them die, I believe one of the bigger purposes of GamePass is give a home to these types of games, that $24.99 - $49.99 area of games people stopped feeling comfortable shelling out for due to the longevity and quality of AAA experiences increasing while the price of indies fell and quality also increased.

These were actually the type of games that defined the original Xbox if you remember correctly, and why I believe this ship might be heading in the right direction. The problem normally is that you walk a fine line trying to please devs, pubs, and players through split profits from a subscription-based service, but the idea of offering a discount for those interested in buying is a really smart way of sidestepping this issue.

So essentially what I'm trying to get at is that I think the Xbox team at trying to revive the "AA" space and use GamePass to do it since it would offer devs a platform for the type of game they wouldn't normally try investing in, as well as the previously echoed sentiments of helping episodic experiences and introducing PC players to a sub they might consider paying for.

 

[Agnostic Priest]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'll repost it:

Phil Spencer let it slip that Rare is working on an unannounced game. I know it was rumored before but was it ever confirmed?

https://youtu.be/NPinUdJZ2Ko

Starting at 9:25 to 9:45

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It's Goldeneye. That would make sense as an easy side project along with SOT.

Spoiler

Might not be Goldeneye

 

[Agnostic Priest]

It's Goldeneye. That would make sense as an easy side project along with SOT.

Spoiler

Might not be Goldeneye

Would be awesome! Probably battle toads, though I'd much rather it be Perfect Dark

 

[Novocaine]

You're both wrong it's Viva Piñata 3

 

[Bits N Pieces]

C'mon, it's Banjo.

 

[JlNX]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'll repost it:

Phil Spencer let it slip that Rare is working on an unannounced game. I know it was rumored before but was it ever confirmed?

https://youtu.be/NPinUdJZ2Ko

Starting at 9:25 to 9:45

I brought it up earlier in the thread, based on what we know with how the studio is structured and team size (150-200.) It seems most likely that the second project will either be revealed this year or next year at E3 early in development like SOT to allow for hiring. But the most important reason why they will announce it early like SOT is because Rare has been completely restructured internally to handle the GAAS model. So the second project has to be a GAAS, as Phil has said SOT was announced so early because it had to be so they could have the community come in and help develop SOT. Based of job postings we know it's been in development awhile, that it is story based according to a animator job listing. It will probably be GAAS story based in the same way that SOD is, a single player made of multiple areas were you can sell expansions that add more areas on the map. It will probably have more than CO-OP which is all SOD has, probably similar to SOT in nature. I expect SOD with the entry after 2 will look more like stage 3 were it is MMOish.

 

[JayhawkerStL]

Actually, this makes it a little clearer:



That highest point? January 2017

Most hype Scalebound ever had was when it was canceled.

Just sad.

The problem was, the game looked like crap every time I saw clips. Maybe it was salvageable. Maybe it was more fun to play than what it looked like. But I had zero interest in that game. And the douchebro protagonist didn't help.

The only reason it got more hype when canceled is that Sony fans had a field day creating a narrative to dump on Microsoft from it, as though it had nothing to do with Microsoft canceling a game that anybody was actually looking forward to. Just because it had a cool developer and was a Japanese game was not enough to sell it.

Honestly, it's all about the narrative. Early on, Microsoft had better first party games, but the PS4 was more powerful. With Scorpio coming, suddenly first party games are more important. I think it is pretty clear that Microsoft can't win the NeoGaf mindshare any time soon, and there is a concerted effort by gamers to maintain the status quo.

As primarily an Xbox gamer, it really doesn't matter. I like Xbox for Halo, Gears, and Forza, as well as preferring its controller and network. And after getting a PS4, I can tell you that I was amazed by how not great the UI and store has been. While UC4 has been fun, MLB The Show is kind of mess of bugs and glitches right now, and that was the only reason I bought the thing. If Super Mega Baseball 2 is as good as advertised, I'm probably selling the PS4, which has been underwhelming.

But that's me. I don't think there is a single thing MS can do to lure Sony gamers that are just as dedicated to Sony's games, controller, and ecosystem as I am of MS's. Personally, I don't care. MS is selling enough consoles to keep selling games and improving their consoles. The consoles can actually co-exist just fine without either being a bad device.

 

[Xumbrega]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'll repost it:

Phil Spencer let it slip that Rare is working on an unannounced game. I know it was rumored before but was it ever confirmed?

https://youtu.be/NPinUdJZ2Ko

Starting at 9:25 to 9:45

my bet is perfect dark

 

[Shiggy]

I brought it up earlier in the thread, based on what we know with how the studio is structured and team size (150-200.) It seems most likely that the second project will either be revealed this year or next year at E3 early in development like SOT to allow for hiring. But the most important reason why they will announce it early like SOT is because Rare has been completely restructured internally to handle the GAAS model. So the second project has to be a GAAS, as Phil has said SOT was announced so early because it had to be so they could have the community come in and help develop SOT. Based of job postings we know it's been in development awhile, that it is story based according to a animator job listing. It will probably be GAAS story based in the same way that SOD is, a single player made of multiple areas were you can sell expansions that add more areas on the map. It will probably have more than CO-OP which is all SOD has, probably similar to SOT in nature. I expect SOD with the entry after 2 will look more like stage 3 were it is MMOish.

I don't think Rare will show another game before the launch of SoT. They probably don't want to go on a hiring spree for another project with that studio as long as the success of SoT remains to be seen.


Meanwhile, another SP game from Microsoft this year is the definitive version of ReCore. They are holding back that game and the patch for later this year.

 

[Agnostic Priest]

I wonder if Rare would use the same engine as SoT to make a battletoads game. A cartoony Battletoad open world 4 player coop game could be pretty cool. Third person beat em up though, and I don't think pvp would work well.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't think Rare will show another game before the launch of SoT. They probably don't want to go on a hiring spree for another project with that studio as long as the success of SoT remains to be seen.


Meanwhile, another SP game from Microsoft this year is the definitive version of ReCore. They are holding back that game and the patch for later this year.

Speaking of game pass, if you're looking for a SP game that could go into game pass at or near release, a definitive edition of Recore could be a good candidate.

 

[sam12]

Oh god I don't want Battletoads. Please have Perfect Dark or Banjo return

 

[sam12]

And they should announce the game this year, if it's Perfect Dark or Banjo then they will get a lot of publicity which will only help their other game sea of Thieves out

 

[Agnostic Priest]

Oh god I don't want Battletoads. Please have Perfect Dark or Banjo return

You say that now until you see the battletoads they made for a new generation

 

[Sydle]

my bet is perfect dark

I think Shinobi said Rare is working on new IP.

 

[Xumbrega]

I think Shinobi said Rare is working on new IP.

that would be nice as well

hopefully an adventure or a platform