IIRC SS looks that ways partly because Toriyama wanted to save time filling goku's hair
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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I only really liked SSJ2 when Teen Gohan had it.
When Gohan went SSJ2 in the tournament for Kabito, that was cool, but didn't last long. Goku going SSJ2 lost it's impact when it wasn't for long/ was outdone by SSJ3. I guess Vegeta's SSJ2 is fine, and I do like Future Trunks SSJ2.
When Gohan went SSJ2 in the tournament for Kabito, that was cool, but didn't last long. Goku going SSJ2 lost it's impact when it wasn't for long/ was outdone by SSJ3. I guess Vegeta's SSJ2 is fine, and I do like Future Trunks SSJ2.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
What a episode to choose to miss.
I guess it's more Goku time.
episode 90 is where it's at. Episode 88 just confirmed our suspicions and was mainly for Gohan fans
Seriously. I can't take anyone seriously who says that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a horrible transformation, while Super Saiyan 2 is just Super Saiyan with more spikes and lightning, yet it's one of the best transformations.
As for Super Saiyan 4, that ugly red monkey design can go burn.
Gohan's episode had this type of luck. His episode in the Future Trunks Saga had the lowest ratings of that saga (which was still fairly high) and his Great Saiyanman stuff did okay, but got smashed by the Krillin episode. Only the episode with Lavender charted really well for Gohan.
The 👏 Manga 👏 isn't 👏 the 👏 official 👏 source
TeamLeftMatch
Member
If we're talking transformation can we all at least agree that SSJ 3 is the worst.
Who cares whether or not is in the manga, it's no long the official source and both are "canon" now
I know, but when they both don't use the same transformations, it feels weird.
The first time Kaioken Blue was used was definitely more memorable than the first time Goku went SSB. Probably one of my favorite moments in Super.
I'm not ready for that type of commitment.
I am
Not a Transformation, but it was so fucking hype.
My man! Still one of my favorite moments in the franchise.
Hell no! Super Saiyan 3 is my favorite transformation. The worst is by far Super Saiyan 4 followed by Super Saiyan 2.
Suburban Thug
Member
Nope. SS4 is the worst.
No clearly Super Pirate God Gear 4 Bojack
Does this really matter? If an element isn't both in the anime and the manga, it means that it's not in the """official""" source, ie. Toriyama's story outline. On that note, it's the anime writers that invented Kaioken Blue, so Skeeter49 does have a point. That's not to say it wasn't hype as hell. It was one of the few good things about that one arc. Plus, if the anime writers can sneak it into future plots, like they did in the Future Trunks saga, I guess it hardly matters that it wasn't Toriyama who came up with the idea.
I have to say that I thought Toyotaro's ideas for filling in Toriyama's blanks were better at first, but it seems that neither the manga nor the anime gets it right at all times. If they ever adapt Super's plot into a game or something, I hope they pick the best ideas out of both so that we can have the "definitive" version of the story.
Does this really matter? If an element isn't both in the anime and the manga, it means that it's not in the """official""" source, ie. Toriyama's story outline. On that note, it's the anime writers that invented Kaioken Blue, so Skeeter49 does have a point. That's not to say it wasn't hype as hell. It was one of the few good things about that one arc. Plus, if the anime writers can sneak it into future plots, like they did in the Future Trunks saga, I guess it hardly matters that it wasn't Toriyama who came up with the idea.
I have to say that I thought Toyotaro's ideas for filling in Toriyama's blanks were better at first, but it seems that neither the manga nor the anime gets it right at all times. If they ever adapt Super's plot into a game or something, I hope they pick the best ideas out of both so that we can have the "definitive" version of the story.
Who cares? All Toriyama gives is a bare bone outline and leave Toei and Toyo fill the rest. An idea isn't good just because it's come from Toriyama. And they didn't 'sneak it in'. Toriyama allowed them to do it, just like Toyo keep putting Super Saiyan God everywhere.
And there is no "definitive" version. Fans that just to accept that. This isn't like the days with the manga where you can call anything that doesn't appear in the manga 'non-canon'.
StarPlatinumTheWorld
Member
I love the Dragon Ball manga, I own all 42 issues but I was gutted when SSB Kaioken didn't appear in the Super manga.
cell sounds like someone who would be up for a tournament anyway
but alas, he hasn't trained since he died
but alas, he hasn't trained since he died
Suburban Thug
Member
I agree with you. I look at it like game of thrones where the TV show and book deviate but the creator still has his finger prints on both.
NeonZ
Member
In the very first episode, Super's Funimation dub added a line about how Goku was training to protect everyone. I haven't seen beyond that episode though, so I don't know if they continued doing things like that.
BBQMan
Member
Well
Lets be honest Freeza isn't much stronger. He beat a super weak Gohan, then absolutely got curb stomped by the SSB's like it was a game. Freeza only trained to beat the Super Saiyan class not the God class. I'd say Freeza isn't that much stronger than SS3. Taking into account that Gohan's SS2 in the Cell Saga was fairly close of Goku's SS3, Cell shouldnt be far off.
Baleoce
Member
One thing I really miss, is vocalised music for a big transformation. I think in the right moment it makes a big difference.
EDIT - Then again, maybe it's more about the music and the pacing / directing of the scene. This one is almost equally as enjoyable for me and there's no vocals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6FboEQRRsI
EDIT - Then again, maybe it's more about the music and the pacing / directing of the scene. This one is almost equally as enjoyable for me and there's no vocals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6FboEQRRsI
That's exactly what I said. I'm just replying to the assertion that Kaioken Blue not being in the manga does not mean that it did not come from Toriyama, which it absolutely does.
I agree on the rest. Like many series, Dragon Ball is not completely on its original creator's hands. Other people contributing ideas and complementary material on Toriyama's outline is great. Even good "fillers" are perfectly desirable, like some of the ones we had.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Lol huh? Golden frieza was a lot stronger than SSB at the time. It was a stamina issue with him, as usual.
Not a Transformation, but it was so fucking hype.
Jubaidaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
shadowsdarknes
Member
Exactly. Golden Frieza is wickedly powerful minus the lack of stamina. If he had time to perfect that form, he could likely get much stronger.
Golden Frieza would hold his own against Black and Hit if the stamina weren't the issue.
Maybe he has been meditating all that time ala Piccolo. Mixed with Saiyan genes, he would absolutely be on par with Goku.
Or at least thats how I imagine Super would play it off.
FreeMufasa
Junior Member
Yup and you gotta remember goku/vegeta have that unsensable God ki whereas freeza was regular but just that powerful
tkscz
Member
So did the manga explain
Also
How 17 got so damned strong? I get that he kept training, but to be on par, or maybe even strong than SSB is a bit on the ridiculous side.
Also
How strong is Piccolo at this point? Gohan was shocked to see him stronger than SSJ2, but he was strong enough to handle Mystic Gohan (are we still calling it that?) which puts him at or above SSJ3.
Isn't the Manga still on Goku Black?
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Gohan wasn't at full power. Piccolo probably approaches full power SSJ2 level. Also, it's Ultimate Gohan.
tkscz
Member
He wasn't? According to Piccolo he reached Ultimate again as he pointed out his over confidence weakness, then they started training while Gohan was still Ultimate,
but Piccolo claiming he can go beyond even that.
but Piccolo claiming he can go beyond even that.
RareFantasy64
Member
Yeah. Kid Gohan's SSJ2 transformation (and Future Trunks' SSJ1.5) was the only time I feel SSJ2 had an interesting enough visual difference from SSJ1. With adult Gohan, Vegeta and Goku, sometimes the minor difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2 really makes me wonder why SSJ2 wasn't designed with a more distinct look in mind like SSJ3
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Gohan is still Gohan and wouldn't go all out and risk killing Piccolo, plus even though he had his power back he didn't have his battle sense back yet so Piccolo was able to exploit that.
Also, what actually needs to be spoiler tagged and what doesn't?
tkscz
Member
From what I've seen, anything from the current Saga is spoiler tag. Previous Saga on back doesn't need it as if you haven't seen it by now, you're probably not going to.
Baleoce
Member
Baleoce
Member
NeonZ
Member
Yeah, last chapter ended with the Vegeto fusion being undone and Goku and Vegeta covered by an explosion.
He's incredibly vain, and loves himself more than anything. He'd rather exist in Hell than not at all.
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