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[Little Old Man]

okay, what can we nuke and what can't we nuke?

i have some post-it notes, so i'm going to make an effort to make this clear.

firstly, can we nuke nintendo? i'm thinking no?

Brexit countries in nuclear bomb made glass houses shouldn't throw rocks?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

His failure to not get caught up in that argument about nuking everyone who looks at you the wrong way and also not getting rid of Ken Livingstone ASAP (makes him look weak on anti-Semitism) seems to have done him in. Started well and finished well, but that's it for him.

 

[Uzzy]

This is the core reason why he's viewed as unelectable and an incompetent party leader. It's alright to have a personal view, but it should not trump the party position. Once the party takes a stance, Corbyn has to defend that stance. You can't put something in your manifesto and then not stand behind it.

He did defend the manifesto being a product of the party's position before, and got attacked over being a weak and incompetent party leader because more of his personal views weren't represented in the manifesto. Including the renewal of Trident.

 

[kmag]

He could have just said "yes" to the retaliation question. It's de facto Labour Party policy. For someone who claimed to be about Labour Party internal democracy, I'm deeply disappointed in that answer.

He's never really been about Labour Party internal democracy though has he? He voted against plenty of Blair and Brown era manifesto commitments which went though the parties internal democratic process.

 

[Aki-at]

someone please cheer me up about the state of my country

House prices continue to rise!*

*In London**

**Parts of London, get back to work peasents.

 

[Xando]

Only hope Tories stay in and fuck up the EU discussions or looks soft as shit and gets ripped.

It's gonna get blamed on the EU anyway. The seed of thought is already getting planted by TM and david davis.

 

[Acorn]

The number of people who wanted to kill millions with nuclear weapons in that audience is scary. Frankly, I have more respect for someone who stands up and says they won't use them. The fact Corbyn has, obviously, conceeded with his party to keep funding doesn't mean he has to be responsible for the nuclear devastation of another country.

Another point is that the only way May would use it would be as retalliation, but that means that someone has launched at us, which means the actual deterrence has failed, how is that better?

They get to die happy after killing some foreigners​.

 

[And_Gignac]

Calm down. His nuclear stance is known. People won't have that in mind while casting their votes.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

He's never really been about Labour Party internal democracy though has he? He voted against plenty of Blair and Brown era manifesto commitments which went though the parties internal democratic process.

I think that was justified because Blair essentially ended party democracy. Manifesto commitments were rarely put to vote at conference and the NEC was stacked to prevent members having any real input anyway. It was sham democracy. This, on the other hand, he has no excuse for.

 

[Audioboxer]

Wenger's red team overcame a supposedly stronger and more stable blue team.

An older man with grey hair backed by the colour red... Hmmm. Has anyone ever seen Corbyn and Wenger in the same place at the same time?

 

[Chinner]

Brexit countries in nuclear bomb made glass houses shouldn't throw rocks?

so to clarify, should we nuke glasses houses or are you suggesting glass houses are an affordable house scheme prospect?

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

It's gonna get blamed on the EU anyway. The seed of thought is already getting planted by TM and david davis.

These two will get destroyed by the EU. Utterly destroyed.

 

[Memento Mori]

Another point is that the only way May would use it would be as retalliation, but that means that someone has launched at us, which means the actual deterrence has failed, how is that better?

The point is that if the enemy believes you'd launch retaliatory strikes no-one would nuke you in the first place because they know they'd get nuked back. Whether you actually would retaliate is irrelevant but you have to maintain the illusion.

 

[PJV3]

His failure to not get caught up in that argument about nuking everyone who looks at you the wrong way and also not getting rid of Ken Livingstone ASAP (makes him look weak on anti-Semitism) seems to have done him in. Started well and finished well, but that's it for him.

I think you might be overreacting, this is well trodden stuff when it comes to Corbyn. If people don't like it they were never voting for him anyway.

 

[Filthy Casual]

Look to leave as soon as possible whilst you still have EU citizenship. We're fucked.

I might actually do this. I'm 21 just finished uni with no job and no responsibilities. Where is the best place to flee?

 

[Acorn]

so to clarify, should we nuke glasses houses or are you suggesting glass houses are an affordable house scheme prospect?

Greenhouses are the new starter homes.

 

[Audioboxer]

Calm down. His nuclear stance is known. People won't have that in mind while casting their votes.

I would scroll through this https://twitter.com/Conservatives

A "national security threat" is one of the main smears of Corbyn.

 

[Newline]

I might actually do this. I'm 21 just finished uni with no job and no responsibilities. Where is the best place to flee?

Berlin is fun and has a great tech scene if that interests you. Plenty of roles in product/project management if you lack direct tech experience too!

I'm personally thinking Canada as I've got family moving out there soon.

 

[BossDarkseid]

I might actually do this. I'm 21 just finished uni with no job and no responsibilities. Where is the best place to flee?

Germany? I think someone said its a pretty good hub for some businesses etc and they have a high level of english speakers. I'm probably semi-fucked. Started Uni late, got a year left.....Germany sounds nice though

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Calm down. His nuclear stance is known. People won't have that in mind while casting their votes.

The point though, is that after Corbyn had a pretty solid performance and Theresa May was confirmed to be a robot that regurgitates random soundbites regardless of the question, the narrative has successfully been shifted to that of literally nothing but Corbyn and nukes.

 

[Moze]

That's what I'm thinking, I just can't see people in the polling booth dwell on nuclear weapons and fucking up north korea.

Indeed. I think the way it was handled is what is more disappointing. He just looked really rough during that whole exchange. Not so much what was said, but how it was said. He looked weak, which feeds into the narrative that he is weak and May is strong. But as I said, Sky news doesn't seem to be interested in it too much. The news repeating this sort of thing is how most people will see it.

Polls will be interesting next week I guess.

 

[Acorn]

I would scroll through this https://twitter.com/Conservatives

A "national security threat" is one of the main smears of Corbyn.

She was home secretary that weakened police forces and accused a copper that predicted the attack of scaremongering.

If she wants to play that game she has much more negatives than Corbyn.

 

[JonathanEx]

From the looks of the pages on Twitter, the debate's not getting much front page coverage really. Everyone's on their own stories really.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I might actually do this. I'm 21 just finished uni with no job and no responsibilities. Where is the best place to flee?

Germany. Though I did A-Levels for 3 years and started university late so I'm kinda fucked. Looked at tech jobs there recently and they seem to require coding skills and experience I don't have yet. I have no idea what to do to make it possible in such a short timeframe tbh. If there's a transition deal with free movement maintained for that period I'll be very pleased.

 

[curls]

I would scroll through this https://twitter.com/Conservatives

A "national security threat" is one of the main smears of Corbyn.

"Coalition of chaos" 😂

 

[It's Reyn Time!]

Guys, if I'm ever murdered, please find my murderer and kill him. Also kill his family, friends, neighbours and half the men, women and children on his street. The other half I want you to slowly poison so that they suffer but don't die, but their next generation of children will be born all fucked up. Also I want you to tear down their houses and dig up their gardens, but just leave the debris lying about the place so that nobody can attempt to rebuild there.

Promise you will do this for me, as my dying wish, because I am a red-faced 50-something white, English man.

 

[Uzzy]

Sir Humphrey: With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
Jim Hacker: I don't want to obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe.
Sir Humphrey: It's a deterrent.
Jim Hacker: It's a bluff. I probably wouldn't use it.
Sir Humphrey: Yes, but they don't know that you probably wouldn't.
Jim Hacker: They probably do.
Sir Humphrey: Yes, they probably know that you probably wouldn't. But they can't certainly know.
Jim Hacker: They probably certainly know that I probably wouldn't.
Sir Humphrey: Yes, but even though they probably certainly know that you probably wouldn't, they don't certainly know that, although you probably wouldn't, there is no probability that you certainly would.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

May also came under fire from nurses over their experience of incomes falling in real terms, as a result of the 1% cap on annual public sector pay rises. She said public money had to be "managed carefully".

Managed carefully eh?

The MPs with their second homes in London clearly don't fall under that

 

[empyrean]

Why is nukes such a big issue. The current big threats to our security is terrorism which can't be reasoned with by the threat of nukes.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

An older man with grey hair backed by the colour red... Hmmm. Has anyone ever seen Corbyn and Wenger in the same place at the same time?

Wenger in

Spoiler

No. 10

 

[Acorn]

Guys, if I'm ever murdered, please find my murderer and kill him. Also kill his family, friends, neighbours and half the men, women and children on his street. The other half I want you to slowly poison so that they suffer but don't die, but their next generation of children will be born all fucked up. Also I want you to tear down their houses and dig up their gardens, but just leave the debris lying about the place so that nobody can attempt to rebuild there.

Promise you will do this for me, as my dying wish, because I am a red-faced 50-something white, English man.

Lol

 

[Faddy]

Yes, Trident was designed to be a dead man's hand - there was always a second strike ability even if we got nuked first or were otherwise compromised.

However, a second strike ability is not the be-all and end-all of nuclear policy. It's not relevant when you have, as we have seen, a Russian state that is continually probing the West for weaknesses to advance its own gains.

By removing the threat of a first strike, you are telling your opponent that they can get away with whatever they want other than nuking you. If they march into Eastern Europe, they know as long as they don't use nukes you won't either. So you have a bloody and futile land war in Europe. But then the Russians say "if you don't stand down, I will nuke you."

And then everyone either dies, or you capitulate.

If you have a first-strike policy, the bloody war never happens and the brinksmanship does not happen. If Russia walks into Estonia, the world ends. End of discussion. It does not matter how many nukes Russia has. There is guaranteed escalation and guaranteed red lines. Nukes deter conventional warfare.

You are a moron.

Go rent War Games.

 

[RetroDLC]

This debate is most likely just going to reaffirm peoples general personal opinions of both May and Corbyn. It disturbs me that some people can't tell the difference between an offensive weapon and a defensive weapon, but anyone who worries about not being the first to use a nuke wasn't going to vote for Corbyn anyway.

Our main hopes are that the elderly turn on May for plotting to ruin their quality of life, and that people focus on policies and their costing.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Guys, if I'm ever murdered, please find my murderer and kill him. Also kill his family, friends, neighbours and half the men, women and children on his street. The other half I want you to slowly poison so that they suffer but don't die, but their next generation of children will be born all fucked up. Also I want you to tear down their houses and dig up their gardens, but just leave the debris lying about the place so that nobody can attempt to rebuild there.

Promise you will do this for me, as my dying wish, because I am a red-faced 50-something white, English man.

lol. It's Reyn time, alright.

 

[Beefy]

But would Corbyn be ready to launch another nuke if we had two nukes launched at us?

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

Managed carefully eh?

The MPs with their second homes in London clearly don't fall under that

Don't forget MPs had an 11% pay rise in 2015 too

 

[Sumio Mondo]

But would Corbyn be ready to launch another nuke if we had two nukes launched at us?

So much time wasted on this nonsense. Unbelievable.

 

[Audioboxer]

She was home secretary that weakened police forces and accused a copper that predicted the attack of scaremongering.

If she wants to play that game she has much more negatives than Corbyn.

Shh, no long-term logic, only upset that Corbz is being awkward about pushing a button.

Wenger in

Spoiler

No. 10

At this point, we'd take it.

 

[Chocolate & Vanilla]

Shh, no long-term logic, only upset that Corbz is being awkward about pushing a button.



At this point, we'd take it.

We'd get guaranteed fiscal stability.

 

[Little Old Man]

so to clarify, should we nuke glasses houses or are you suggesting glass houses are an affordable house scheme prospect?

Both. From extensive experience in the construction industry

Spoiler

Minecraft

, we should drop one on a big sandy beach somewhere. Which makes glass blocks. Which can be used to build houses. And because you can see right out of all the walls, you can see the mobs coming from across the Channel easily.

 

[Audioboxer]

We'd get guaranteed fiscal stability.

Guaranteed access to Europe as well

Spoiler

just never winning anything.

 

[Faddy]

Don't forget MPs had an 11% pay rise in 2015 too

But see there was an independent pay body that recommends MPs pay rises. To not vote it through would be politicising the issue.

Unlike those nurses whose pay is set by an independent review body and recommended a pay rise, the Government was quite right to reject that raise.

 

[Acorn]

We'd get guaranteed fiscal stability.

Social Security would be cut to a free toffee crisp.

 

[Xando]

Germany. Though I did A-Levels for 3 years and started university late so I'm kinda fucked. Looked at tech jobs there recently and they seem to require coding skills and experience I don't have yet. I have no idea what to do to make it possible in such a short timeframe tbh. If there's a transition deal with free movement maintained for that period I'll be very pleased.

If you have enough coding experience tech companies will get you a visa anyway.

I work for a company based in Hamburg and Barcelona and we develop applications in the beverage wholesale branch of industry and we constantly hire people from within the EU and outside the EU (most recently a lot of americans) and they usually have no problems getting working visas as they're pretty well paid. (I have 4 years of coding experience(apprenticeship) and make around 55k).

Generally in coding it's very easy to find a job because the german market doesn't offer enough skilled people.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Global nuclear war will encourage people to take their own initiative and build their own housing. I know this from my Fallout 4 settlement construction experience. Everyone can now own their own home, problem solved.

If you have enough coding experience tech companies will get you a visa anyway.

I work for a company based in Hamburg and Barcelona and we develop applications in the beverage wholesale branch of industry and we constantly hire people from within the EU and outside the EU (most recently a lot of americans) and they usually have no problems getting working visas as they're pretty well paid. (I have 4 years of coding experience(apprenticeship) and make around 55k).

Generally in coding it's very easy to find a job because the german market doesn't offer enough skilled people.

How difficult is the labour market test to even get through? Free movement would already get you enough skilled coder people. That's the biggest reason why I'm concerned about losing free movement. /r/IWantOut says it's actually not that hard, but my non citizen Chinese classmate who also did a STEM degree course got essentially kicked out because he couldn't get a job even though he did internships in foreign countries.

 

[WhatNXt]

I have face-palmed A LOT tonight

 

[ecosse_011172]

So, people are massive fucking cunts, eh.

 

[Audioboxer]

Global nuclear war will encourage people to take their own initiative and build their own housing. I know this from my Fallout 4 settlement construction experience. Everyone can now own their own home, problem solved.

You can tell the Tories would dump mattresses on the ground for their settlers rather than use a proper bed.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

We deserve everything we get as a country. Don't like it? Get out while you still can.

 

[chromatic9]

At this point, we'd take it.

Also would be apt with Wenger missing out on the Champions League and making do with the Europa cup. With how Corbyn near the end of the show stressing how important tariff free single market access is he'll be selling to the UK on second tier European cup aka EEA/EFTA type deal.