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[War Peaceman]

they are called fucking peace talks for a reason

god the conservative party under crosby are truly wretched.

 

[Acorn]

We deserve everything we get as a country. Don't like it? Get out while you still can.

Thing is most of these fuckers that put us in this mess won't be affected or will be dead.

Babyboomers will fuck us forever.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I have face-palmed A LOT tonight

Don't you remember when the Good Friday agreement came about after we nuked the shit out of Northern Ireland?

 

[Acorn]

they are called fucking peace talks for a reason

god the conservative party are truly wretched.

Fixed. Qualifier not needed.

 

[curls]

Not so conservative when it comes to nukes. 😏

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

 

[Audioboxer]

Thing is most of these fuckers that put us in this mess won't be affected or will be dead.

Babyboomers will fuck us forever.

To be fair there is always a decent showing of young Tory support, like the "zero hour contract" boy. It does seem to stay contained to the youth born into wealth and privilege.

However, yes, there's always plenty of angry old men.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Most Tory voters are angry old men.

 

[Xando]

How difficult is the labour market test to even get through? Free movement would already get you enough skilled coder people. That's the biggest reason why I'm concerned about losing free movement. /r/IWantOut says it's actually not that hard, but my non citizen Chinese classmate who also did a STEM degree course got essentially kicked out because he couldn't get a job even though he did internships in foreign countries.

I'm not 100% into the topic but from what my coworkers told me (American. Japanese and Brazilian) it shouldn't be too hard. I know they flew over for the interviews with our company (First interview was via Skype) and generally there are a lot of open STEM vacancies with aren't filled by Germans or EU citizens, especially in IT.
The most important thing is that you have a job offer. The rest shouldn't be much of a problem and most companies offer a lot of help and support you with all this legal stuff (My current company and the one before hired a extra person to take care of problems with non EU citizens).

Edit:

Forgot to mention but i think if you have a degree and get paid a certain amount (i think it was something like 40-50k) you won't have to pass the labour market test at all.

 

[Pyroclastic]

Most Tory voters are angry old men.

they have a lot of passive old dears too, who vote in their droves.

 

[Spaghetti]

I take it that's it for Corbynmania, then? I missed the rest of the special Question Time because I ended up having a three hour debate with my dad over the election.

The Guardian's analysis isn't particularly unfavourable, but who knows if they're just going soft on Corbyn now because of the bounce.

May appearing mildly more competent than before isn't really anything to write home about, but maybe lowered expectations are enhancing the effect.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

You are a moron.

I have a degree in International Politics.

 

[Audioboxer]

Bri

Spoiler

t

a

Spoiler

i

n elects on point

 

[Sumio Mondo]

May appearing mildly more competent than before isn't really anything to write home about, but maybe lowered expectations are enhancing the effect.

Actually turning up helps. Ridiculous that the audience let her get away with that tonight.

 

[Audioboxer]

Prepare yourselves for this one

 

[JonathanEx]

Still of note that through ridicule it looks like she's now unable to say 'Strong and Stable' again when in front of actual members of the public.

 

[FortuneFaded]

We need a leader who strives for a hard Hiroshima, not a soft Nagasaki.

 

[Xando]

We need a leader who strives for a hard Hiroshima, not a soft Nagasaki.

I'd rather have a bad nuke than no nuke.

 

[curls]

Ill be strong and stable for you Maybot

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I have a degree in International Politics.

Might have been a while ago, though. It's generally thought that Guaranteed Escalation is not a credible commitment.

In stage 1, Russia choses Invade, Not Invade.
If Russia choses Invade, in stage 2, UK choses Nuke, Not Nuke.

Not Invade is (0,0) for both parties - status quo.
Invade, Nuke is (-100,-100) for both parties - everyone gets nuked, nuclear holocaust in action.
Invade, Not Nuke is (+10,-10). The UK has Kent annexed or whatever, and hundreds of thousands die, but it isn't nuclear holocaust.

It's true that if the UK always selects the strategy Nuke, and Russia knows this, then Russia's incentive is to pick Not Invade. But this isn't a credible commitment, since once Russia actually has picked Invade, the UK's minmax response is Not Nuke, since that's less bad than nuclear holocaust. So Nuke isn't the Nash Equilibrium, and Guaranteed Escalation doesn't work.

This isn't true of Mutually Assured Destruction, which is why the UK developed Trident as a retaliatory system and not for pre-emptive purposes.

 

[whyamihere]

I've always been a little tickled of the irony of "Leave.EU"

 

[Spaghetti]

Prepare yourselves for this one

*looks at all the Brit expats in foreign countries who are notorious for not bothering to learn the language*

Actually turning up helps. Ridiculous that the audience let her get away with that tonight.

QT time audiences are unfortunately uniformly shit, so I'm not surprised if May got an easy ride. Hopefully it's too late to make a huge difference and the Conservatives are given a good fight.

Spoiler

Even if Labour will realistically still lose.

 

[Little Old Man]

I take it that's it for Corbynmania, then? I missed the rest of the special Question Time because I ended up having a three hour debate with my dad over the election.

The Guardian's analysis isn't particularly unfavourable, but who knows if they're just going soft on Corbyn now because of the bounce.

May appearing mildly more competent than before isn't really anything to write home about, but maybe lowered expectations are enhancing the effect.

I'm not sure I'd call tonight a game changer, but if I had to guess I'd say that tonight will hinder Corbyn even more in the eyes of many on the question of leadership outside of the 18-30 bracket.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Prepare yourselves for this one

Does that include the frothing at the mouth right wing commenters? Their English grammar and spelling needs work.

 

[Faddy]

I have a degree in International Politics.

I hope your thesis wasn't in international diplomacy.

Your whole scenario is ill conceived. If Nuclear State A (UK) launched a strike against Nuclear State B (Russia) then nuclear weapons have failed as a deterrent.

Who strikes first is not part of the equation, it works the other way around. Unless you want to challenge the notion of Mutually Assured Destruction that has been the basis of nuclear proliferation across the world.

If MAD doesn't work then we don't need nuclear weapons at all.

 

[Spaghetti]

I'm not sure I'd call tonight a game changer, but if I had to guess I'd say that tonight will hinder Corbyn even more in the eyes of many on the question of leadership outside of the 18-30 bracket.

Well.

Best hope the youth vote turn out.

EDIT: Just saw this snippet in the Conservative response to QT.

[Jeremy Corbyn spoke] in meaningless soundbites without offering anything of substance.

Who does that sound like? Hmmm....

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Guys, if I'm ever murdered, please find my murderer and kill him. Also kill his family, friends, neighbours and half the men, women and children on his street. The other half I want you to slowly poison so that they suffer but don't die, but their next generation of children will be born all fucked up. Also I want you to tear down their houses and dig up their gardens, but just leave the debris lying about the place so that nobody can attempt to rebuild there.

Promise you will do this for me, as my dying wish, because I am a red-faced 50-something white, English man.

I would make love to this post if I could, perfectly put.

 

[Fernando Fernandez]

POSITIVE - the debate was too late to change the front page of newspapers. Mail has given up.

 

[Acorn]

Prepare yourselves for this one

The small amount of likes and replies warms my heart. Stay losing national front kippers.

 

[cartesian]

We deserve everything we get as a country. Don't like it? Get out while you still can.

48% voted remain. Most of them can't just up and leave. People have relatives to care for, kids going through school, best friends they don't want to leave. Many don't have high-demand STEM skills. Fewer still speak foreign languages.

I understand the sentiment but 'clever people abandon ship' simply rubs me the wrong way. Most people can't be mercenary about the country they live and work in. "I'm alright Jack" and off to Canada - as a response to Brexit - works great for bright young programmers and scientists but it abandons the millions who don't have the luxury of geographic mobility.

I mean, I totally get that people want to leave and go the countries where they feel valued. I really do get that decision on a personal level and I don't disagree with the thinking - you simply do what is best for number one. But basic self-interest is something that we should simply accept as inevitable and logical rather than celebrate as righteous. If you can be this flexible and choosy about where you work, you're already doing rather well in life.

If and when Brexit bites, it won't be beautiful young twenty-something UCL grads with CompSci degrees and high-income tech careers who suffer the most. They can escape any economic kickback. It'll be those who are left behind who pay the highest price.

 

[Theonik]

Yes, Trident was designed to be a dead man's hand - there was always a second strike ability even if we got nuked first or were otherwise compromised.

However, a second strike ability is not the be-all and end-all of nuclear policy. It's not relevant when you have, as we have seen, a Russian state that is continually probing the West for weaknesses to advance its own gains.

By removing the threat of a first strike, you are telling your opponent that they can get away with whatever they want other than nuking you. If they march into Eastern Europe, they know as long as they don't use nukes you won't either. So you have a bloody and futile land war in Europe. But then the Russians say "if you don't stand down, I will nuke you."

And then everyone either dies, or you capitulate.

If you have a first-strike policy, the bloody war never happens and the brinksmanship does not happen. If Russia walks into Estonia, the world ends. End of discussion. It does not matter how many nukes Russia has. There is guaranteed escalation and guaranteed red lines. Nukes deter conventional warfare.

That doesn't work if the enemy has figured out that even if you have nukes or a first strike policy you wouldn't use them on fear of a second strike. The threat of escalation is simply not credible because nuclear escalation is suicidal. That's how the nuclear deterrent works to begin with. Even Yes Prime-minister made fun of this paradox.

 

[StrikeFirst117]

Just watched the whole Corbyn nuclear thing and what the fuck is this shit with us having a hard on for nuking others? Fuck me if this is what the general public is like we are utterly fucked.

 

[Audioboxer]

The small amount of likes and replies warms my heart. Stay losing national front kippers.

127k followers for that shittastic Twitter account.

GAF, we need to let you know, voting for Corbyn means

1) Security risk as we can't nuke the world
2) There will be languages heard on the street that aren't English
3) Remoaner Farron and Anti-English Sturgeon propping up the #coalitionofchaos

 

[Huw_Dawson]

This isn't true of Mutually Assured Destruction, which is why the UK developed Trident as a retaliatory system and not for pre-emptive purposes.

Trident is also far harder to prevent attacking initially via intelligence operations. It's a guaranteed nuclear option.

To keep this short - the nuclear defense strategy is there to ensure, with no questions asked, that a foreign power - Russia - will always lose. It can't attempt to conquer Europe only using conventional weaponry - we will escalate if they try. Having nukes only being used when someone else uses them leaves you hostile to a Russian state that is willing to call your bluff. Guaranteeing escalation means that there is no bluff to be called.

I'm not saying that MAD isn't a part of the policy, it's just that there's a lot of nuance to nuclear policy beyond brinkmanship everybody dies policy. Britain is mostly committed already to not threatening others with a first strike, but AFAIK no-first-strike is not our official policy because we want to ensure no war that is damaging to British interests occurs in Europe.

MAD is a great acronym for nuclear policy as it gets very weird, but the whole point of a deterrent is that it can only deter if it's cast iron. Any chinks, any ways around it, any potential weakness will be exploited.

Would Corbyn retaliate versus Russia if Russia nuked Berlin? It's the basic problem with simplistic nuclear policy.

 

[Faddy]

Just watched the whole Corbyn nuclear thing and what the fuck is this shit with us having a hard on for nuking others? Fuck me if this is what the general public is like we are utterly fucked.

Britain. Still Racist.


Actually that is a point that is going to get lost but Corbyn did pledge to confront and challenge institutional racism in British society. I don't know if his plans were actually credible but admitting the problem exists is at least a start.

 

[nOoblet16]

That isn't how nuclear defence policy works.

If you are unwilling to nuke your opponent as a first strike, then they can continuously threaten your position with nuclear strikes.

You end up in a permanent state of brinkmanship.

You have to be willing to deploy a nuclear attack. You have to be clear on when you would do it.

But that's not how Nuclear deterrents work.
If you fire then you can bet your ass that you'll get fired back upon, which is why the idea of nuclear deterrent works the way it does.

 

[Beefy]

127k followers for that shittastic Twitter account.

GAF, we need to let you know, voting for Corbyn means

1) Security risk as we can't nuke the world
2) There will be languages heard on the street that aren't English
3) Remoaner Farron and Anti-English Sturgeon propping up the #coalitionofchaos

That account also hates black people.

 

[Acorn]

Britain. Still Racist.


Actually that is a point that is going to get lost but Corbyn did pledge to confront and challenge institutional racism in British society. I don't know if his plans were actually credible but admitting the problem exists is at least a start.

His leniency to Livingstons Anti-Semitism doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Trident is also far harder to prevent attacking initially via intelligence operations. It's a guaranteed nuclear option.

To keep this short - the nuclear defense strategy is there to ensure, with no questions asked, that a foreign power - Russia - will always lose. It can't attempt to conquer Europe only using conventional weaponry - we will escalate if they try. Having nukes only being used when someone else uses them leaves you hostile to a Russian state that is willing to call your bluff. Guaranteeing escalation means that there is no bluff to be called.

This is factually wrong. We have nuclear weapons in order to prevent Russia from using their nuclear weapons. That's it. Our nuclear weapons don't deter conventional war, for the reasons I pointed out in my last post. If what you are arguing was true, and nuclear weapons were a credible deterrent to conventional war, we could just disband the conventional forces and pull out of the Baltic states - after all, Russia knows we'd escalate if they invaded the Baltics, surely? We haven't, because states understand that Guaranteed Escalation is not a credible threat. No state would actually ever carry out Guaranteed Escalation; our current foreign policy evidences this and evidences that your argument is not accurate.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

But that's not how Nuclear deterrents work.
If you fire then you can bet your ass that you'll get fired back upon, which is why the idea of nuclear deterrent works the way it does.

You don't care if you get fired back on. Your entire policy is that you will fire if certain lines are crossed.

Crab, you've hit on the exact point I'm making - because MAD is not credible, you have far more sane and nuanced escalation policy that depends on the circumstances. And part of those circumstances is that you will go nuclear if needed.

Second strike is one very important part of our defence, but first strike is also needed as a last resort. If neither side wants to use nuclear weapons because they'd both die, that just means you get a conventional war instead.

 

[Audioboxer]

That doesn't work if the enemy has figured out that even if you have nukes or a first strike policy you wouldn't use them on fear of a second strike. The threat of escalation is simply not credible because nuclear escalation is suicidal. That's how the nuclear deterrent works to begin with. Even Yes Prime-minister made fun of this paradox.

"Spend the £15 billion pounds you save..."

Yeah, remember when it cost that?

That account also hates black people.

Not surprised. I think it runs on hate.

 

[KingSnake]

I hear that UK is throwing a nuking party tonight.

Brexit is not enough anymore? Preparing the Earthxit?

 

[StrikeFirst117]

Britain. Still Racist.


Actually that is a point that is going to get lost but Corbyn did pledge to confront and challenge institutional racism in British society. I don't know if his plans were actually credible but admitting the problem exists is at least a start.

Its definitely a start but we've got these tory cunts in charge till 2022 most likely so nothing will be done as May constantly blames everything on the EU.

 

[Acorn]

Its definitely a start but we've got these tory cunts in charge till 2022 most likely so nothing will be done as May constantly blames everything on the EU.

May won't survive that long so we atleast get to watch her career get ruined, silver linings.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You don't care if you get fired back on. Your entire policy is that you will fire if certain lines are crossed.

Crab, you've hit on the exact point I'm making - because MAD is not credible, you have far more sane and nuanced escalation policy that depends on the circumstances.

Huw, you have this back to front. MAD is credible. Guaranteed escalation is not. I think you might have mixed some things up in your head.

 

[Beefy]

Not surprised. I think it runs on hate.

They had a post/pic of saying about homeless poor people ( every person was white) Then had a post about criminals and slamming them. (everyone was black)

 

[StrikeFirst117]

May won't survive that long so we atleast get to watch her career get ruined, silver linings.

Good enough but then I wonder if something worse could take her place. Like Boris Johnson or worse.

 

[Theonik]

Huw, you have this back to front. MAD is credible. Guaranteed escalation is not. I think you might have mixed some things up in your head.

Hell it's why SLBMs changed the game as they did. Though the UK is the only developed nuclear force without a comprehensive nuclear deterrent. (nuclear triad)

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Huw, you have this back to front. MAD is credible. Guaranteed escalation is not. I think you might have mixed some things up in your head.

We have had this debate before, I swear.

Yes, a second strike capacity is important. I'm not debating that. But if you do not have the ability to threaten to defend yourself with nukes, you will end up with your opponent recognising that there's no way you'd get London nuked to save Berlin. You have to remember that we are defending an alliance, not just ourselves.

 

[Audioboxer]

They had a post/pic of saying about homeless poor people ( every person was white) Then had a post about criminals and slamming them. (everyone was black)

What is wrong with people...

 

[OverBlood 3]

I think Boris Johnson is trying to get his own head kicked in for some reason. Impending job loss...

https://twitter.com/nickfthilton/status/870752983046397955