It's certainly not the most egregious example, and it isn't as creepy as some of the examples in the video because Diana isn't presented as a childlike personality in an adult body. But it's still a tired trope played completely straight, which is disappointing and boring.
Wonder Woman |OT| The World is Ready for You, Gal Gad [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter 3N16MA
- Start date
It's certainly not the most egregious example, and it isn't as creepy as some of the examples in the video because Diana isn't presented as a childlike personality in an adult body. But it's still a tired trope played completely straight, which is disappointing and boring.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
childlike? where? she is naive, sure, and people have to explain the world for her. but she never let people telling her what to do. she made decisions for herself. the no man's land scene is the prime example of that.
"I'm both afraid and aroused." That part from bar scene was hilarious.
I found it odd that the German's soldiers was celebrating with Diana's crew in the end. They probably knew the war ended that moment but they were on opposing sides of the war but whatever.
Also, does anyone think the pills that made the general strong is going to be integrated to the Flash or other DC movies down the line? Maybe someone in the future found the formula and somehow remade pills to give superpowers to the Flash's meta human rouges gallery, Bane's venom or something.
I found it odd that the German's soldiers was celebrating with Diana's crew in the end. They probably knew the war ended that moment but they were on opposing sides of the war but whatever.
Also, does anyone think the pills that made the general strong is going to be integrated to the Flash or other DC movies down the line? Maybe someone in the future found the formula and somehow remade pills to give superpowers to the Flash's meta human rouges gallery, Bane's venom or something.
They pretty much wanted to mine a ton of "Fish Out of Water" jokes, without all the weird sexual baggage that comes with that. I honestly think they did a pretty good job of that, though. It's hard not to come away with the impression that Chris Pine is just feeding breadcrumbs to a lunatic because he thinks it will help the war effort.....but at the same time you don't really get the impression that he is preying upon her romantic/sexual naivete.
SiegfriedFM
Member
It was a neat touch. Both that they weren't really inclined to fight anymore (maybe because of Ares' influence) and that they had just survived a pretty apocalyptic fight. I mean, you are running around an airfield shooting at some pesky guys, and suddenly two floating people are throwing tanks and breaking the ground and firing lightning just nearby. And then they stop and you are still alive.
Born Sexy Yesterday is a trope with plenty of problems and many of the examples in that particular video ring painfully true.
But what I see in WW however, is that the more problematic aspects of the trope isn't on display here.
WW may use it (at least some version of it) in a straightforward manner, but it was executed in a more universal way, not just fantasies for men.
The boat scene where they discuss pleasure and procreation towards the beginning of the film cuts off "man must explain/teach what sexuality is to a woman". The scene where Trevor "teaches" Diana to dance (she says her people know dance and mocks the "swaying" on display at the village) is another example.
Trevor is a "above average" man with a singular goal to save people's lives and later to fulfill his word to take her to the front lines -- not to take Diana home and have her hang on his every word. She carries herself like adult, speaks like an adult, and behaves like one. The wide-eyed innocence is left for small comedy bits like having ice cream for the first time, seeing a baby, and figuring out how a revolving door works (which is really a pretty stupid invention in the first place, like why does it exist).
The most naive aspect of her character is seeing humanity as incredibly simplistic beings. A war amongst humans? Must be Ares mind-controlling all of them! And that mindset can be accepted by the audience considering she spent hundreds if not thousands of years on a island that lived in peace all her life, so moral ambiguity and darkness isn't something she experiences in anything other than stories.
But what I see in WW however, is that the more problematic aspects of the trope isn't on display here.
WW may use it (at least some version of it) in a straightforward manner, but it was executed in a more universal way, not just fantasies for men.
The boat scene where they discuss pleasure and procreation towards the beginning of the film cuts off "man must explain/teach what sexuality is to a woman". The scene where Trevor "teaches" Diana to dance (she says her people know dance and mocks the "swaying" on display at the village) is another example.
Trevor is a "above average" man with a singular goal to save people's lives and later to fulfill his word to take her to the front lines -- not to take Diana home and have her hang on his every word. She carries herself like adult, speaks like an adult, and behaves like one. The wide-eyed innocence is left for small comedy bits like having ice cream for the first time, seeing a baby, and figuring out how a revolving door works (which is really a pretty stupid invention in the first place, like why does it exist).
The most naive aspect of her character is seeing humanity as incredibly simplistic beings. A war amongst humans? Must be Ares mind-controlling all of them! And that mindset can be accepted by the audience considering she spent hundreds if not thousands of years on a island that lived in peace all her life, so moral ambiguity and darkness isn't something she experiences in anything other than stories.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I loved when she was elated to see a baby.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I'm just really curious how the Amazons dance now.
BossDarkseid
Member
I think there have been a few examples in history of that sort of thing happening, not least playing football in No Man's Land on Christmas and sharing songs etc. I mean the commander of their army was dead, gods had gone to war and there was a lull in the fighting...no one's gonna start shooting after.
I thought it was interesting that some of the German soldiers practically looked like teenagers to me. And yeah, the blue vial of probably gonna become some setup for things like Venom down the line. It could work though, it certainly allowed Ludendorf temporary brute strength.
brandonh83
Banned
Saw it again, knowing what to expect from the last third I definitely liked it a lot more.
I am both frightened and aroused lol
I am both frightened and aroused lol
Max Landis loved it (very giddity about how good it was).
He offers a pretty cool fan fiction/slight addition. I dig the suggestion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxnJH-17WDM
He offers a pretty cool fan fiction/slight addition. I dig the suggestion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxnJH-17WDM
Kitsunebaby
Member
This is exactly what I told my friend as we were leaving the theatre today.
Aside from that moment of weirdness, it was pretty dang good. And now I really wanna get buff and cosplay an Amazon.
ultracal31
You don't get to bring friends.
Dio Brando
Banned
Count Dookkake
Member
No lie, I'd throw a bone at Dr. Poison.
His suggestion doesn't really work since just paralyzing Dr. Poison wouldn't stop Ares from jumping bodies... There's nothing to suggest a person has to have full movement, only a conscious mind. That also means Diana doesn't pull out a vile of Maru's first gen poison out of no where... where would she put it on her costume? I like the other stuff though.
crisdecuba
Member
SiegfriedFM
Member
I mean, it's Elena Anaya.
I enjoyed the romance between the two, but I do think the sex scene wasn't necessary. Not that I hated it or it ruined anything, but I don't think it added anything, and it was a bit on the nose.
When everyone says the No Mans Land scene was their favorite, do they just mean the shield/bullets part? Or the entire fight after in the town? I loved the shield part, but wish she went into the trench and took those fools out herself. Watching the humans run in and not get shot at was a little distracting.
When everyone says the No Mans Land scene was their favorite, do they just mean the shield/bullets part? Or the entire fight after in the town? I loved the shield part, but wish she went into the trench and took those fools out herself. Watching the humans run in and not get shot at was a little distracting.
I don't think the options were limited to, 1) Diana murders defenseless guy, or 2) guy huffs some unexplained power potion with bad facial CG so we can get a 2 minute fight scene.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
oh that was so much fun 
really enjoyed it \o/
really enjoyed it \o/
Spehornoob
Member
Saw this last night! Really enjoyed it. I think it's somewhat flawed, but it's really enjoyable.
I think Gal Gadot is still growing as an actor, and there are a few times that showed through, but overall she did really well. You could tell how much she put into this. And she sold the arc of an idealistic and naive Diana having to come to terms with the nature of the world, while still remaining a heroic and inspiring character.
Pine gave probably the best blockbuster performance of his career. His more worldly contrast with the very naive Diana was really nice. His sacrifice at the end was very well done, and stands above a lot other stone faced "heroic sacrifice" scenes.
Honestly, I think the action scenes are the weakest parts of the film. The overuse of slomo and some very conspicuous CGI took me out of it a bit during a lot of the fight scenes. The biggest problem with this part of the film overall is that it had to keep in sync with BvS and Man of Steel on a stylistic level.
I'll echo complaints about the ending, namely that the moments after Ares's death undermine the themes of the movie. I also think her going CGI ham on the Germans at the end was unnecessary and looked really bad. Also "Only love can save the world". I don't mind "cheesy" lines, but this seemed to have nothing to do with the actual themes explored in the movie.
Overall, it's a significant step up from any other DC flick. And while I think some of the unabashed praise may be a tad overblown compared to my own thoughts on it, I think it's overall a really well done movie. You can tell a lot of love went into it. Here's hoping Justice League follows suit!
I think Gal Gadot is still growing as an actor, and there are a few times that showed through, but overall she did really well. You could tell how much she put into this. And she sold the arc of an idealistic and naive Diana having to come to terms with the nature of the world, while still remaining a heroic and inspiring character.
Pine gave probably the best blockbuster performance of his career. His more worldly contrast with the very naive Diana was really nice. His sacrifice at the end was very well done, and stands above a lot other stone faced "heroic sacrifice" scenes.
Honestly, I think the action scenes are the weakest parts of the film. The overuse of slomo and some very conspicuous CGI took me out of it a bit during a lot of the fight scenes. The biggest problem with this part of the film overall is that it had to keep in sync with BvS and Man of Steel on a stylistic level.
I'll echo complaints about the ending, namely that the moments after Ares's death undermine the themes of the movie. I also think her going CGI ham on the Germans at the end was unnecessary and looked really bad. Also "Only love can save the world". I don't mind "cheesy" lines, but this seemed to have nothing to do with the actual themes explored in the movie.
Overall, it's a significant step up from any other DC flick. And while I think some of the unabashed praise may be a tad overblown compared to my own thoughts on it, I think it's overall a really well done movie. You can tell a lot of love went into it. Here's hoping Justice League follows suit!
Sorry, I meant to type that Diana ISNT portrayed to be childlike like many of the examples in the video.
Yeah this sure was a good movie. So good that I dread the upcoming Justice League because they deserve to take the momentum from this film and build more great things with it.
What a great portrayal of Wonder Woman. What a difference from how Superman is portrayed. Gal Gadot and the writers nailed it to make such a likeable woman. Make her the starring centerpiece of this whole universe like how everything revolves around Iron Man in the MCU.
Also man, this is like the best Chris Pine performance I've seen.
What a great portrayal of Wonder Woman. What a difference from how Superman is portrayed. Gal Gadot and the writers nailed it to make such a likeable woman. Make her the starring centerpiece of this whole universe like how everything revolves around Iron Man in the MCU.
Also man, this is like the best Chris Pine performance I've seen.
BronsonLee
Member
They won't, they want Batman to be their Iron-Man. He already filmed his "what's your power ? I'm rich" quip.
My general thoughts on the movie:
- Gal proved her acting skills admirably in this movie.
- Kids love young Diana.
- I dont understand how Diana and Trevor reach London from somewhere in the Aegean in just one day in a sailboat.
- Chris Pine was good, very good in this.
- Still, i think Trevor should be British.
- The supporting characters are pretty good (poison-lady, the secretary, the scotsman, Chief and the algerian) too except probably for the actor playing Ludendorff.
- Its a shame the Greek pantheon is wiped out in the DCEU.
- I enjoyed the sexual innuendos which Queen Patty handles tastefully.
- The fish-out-of-water comedy hi-jinks in London was nicely done. And thank god, there were plenty of it.
- I love the action leading up to and into the town of Veld. The downtime in this town provide much needed characterizations for our group of characters as well as for the townspeople . . . . which is why you feel something when Ludendorff gassed the fuck out of them.
- The Ares twist and general characterization was great but the more CGI fight continued the more the character seem to have regressed.
- The Trevor sacrifice was excellently executed.
- The dark, slow-mo infested CGI fight in the end was terrible. I certainly wish that this film did not have to carry any stylistic baggage from Zack Snyder's previous DCEU films.
- If i had my way, i really wouldn't start with Ares as the villain for a Wonder Woman movie. I would start with Phobos, Deimos and Eris inciting WWI. For my money, the god of war is way too powerful for a first villain and wiping-out the Greek pantheon sorely limits WW's villain roster for subsequent movies.
- I feel that they should've just went through with Diana as the demi-goddess of war and being related to Ares. That should at least make it more believable that Ares would actively work to turn her to his side.
- Gal proved her acting skills admirably in this movie.
- Kids love young Diana.
- I dont understand how Diana and Trevor reach London from somewhere in the Aegean in just one day in a sailboat.
- Chris Pine was good, very good in this.
- Still, i think Trevor should be British.
- The supporting characters are pretty good (poison-lady, the secretary, the scotsman, Chief and the algerian) too except probably for the actor playing Ludendorff.
- Its a shame the Greek pantheon is wiped out in the DCEU.
- I enjoyed the sexual innuendos which Queen Patty handles tastefully.
- The fish-out-of-water comedy hi-jinks in London was nicely done. And thank god, there were plenty of it.
- I love the action leading up to and into the town of Veld. The downtime in this town provide much needed characterizations for our group of characters as well as for the townspeople . . . . which is why you feel something when Ludendorff gassed the fuck out of them.
- The Ares twist and general characterization was great but the more CGI fight continued the more the character seem to have regressed.
- The Trevor sacrifice was excellently executed.
- The dark, slow-mo infested CGI fight in the end was terrible. I certainly wish that this film did not have to carry any stylistic baggage from Zack Snyder's previous DCEU films.
- If i had my way, i really wouldn't start with Ares as the villain for a Wonder Woman movie. I would start with Phobos, Deimos and Eris inciting WWI. For my money, the god of war is way too powerful for a first villain and wiping-out the Greek pantheon sorely limits WW's villain roster for subsequent movies.
- I feel that they should've just went through with Diana as the demi-goddess of war and being related to Ares. That should at least make it more believable that Ares would actively work to turn her to his side.
StarCreator
Member
Revolving doors were created to prevent excess transfer of outside air, sand, etc into buildings. Adoption of them is increasing because reduced transfer of air also happens means increased energy savings - the less air transferred outside, the more efficient a building's heating/cooling system.
If it helps, when Diana wakes up the boat is clearly being towed by another boat.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Question. I can't remember Steve's exact words to Diana when they were dancing....he is talking about falling in love, having babies, getting old. But she asks him a question to which he responds he doesn't know---sorry, this is terrible description---was Steve saying he has never been in love? Or can we take it a step further, and was Steve saying he's a virgin? It wouldn't be surprising considering how young he looks in his picture at the very end. If he had been fighing since he was young, he wouldn't have a lot of time for love and/or sex.
Count Dookkake
Member
Repost from movie thread:
WONDER WOMAN (DCEU part IV): lithesome bisexual warrior leads troops to WW1 victory against a cadre of mustache-twirling villains. Borrowing heavily from Snyder's superhero visuals and choreography, but opting for a simpler take on the hero's journey, this is a charming and earnest tale bolstered by real humor and heart. Highlights include Wonder Woman meeting a baby, eating ice cream, charging into a German bullet bukkake, and later deploying Godzilla-level destruction against an armored Sith. Chris Pine was pretty good and Wonder Woman was played by an actual goddess. A definite improvement from the muddled SUICIDE SQUAD, this is at least as good as MAN OF STEEL and better than the average offering from the Marvel sausage factory.
Also, seeing the trailer for VALERIAN in 3D almost made me cry.
WONDER WOMAN (DCEU part IV): lithesome bisexual warrior leads troops to WW1 victory against a cadre of mustache-twirling villains. Borrowing heavily from Snyder's superhero visuals and choreography, but opting for a simpler take on the hero's journey, this is a charming and earnest tale bolstered by real humor and heart. Highlights include Wonder Woman meeting a baby, eating ice cream, charging into a German bullet bukkake, and later deploying Godzilla-level destruction against an armored Sith. Chris Pine was pretty good and Wonder Woman was played by an actual goddess. A definite improvement from the muddled SUICIDE SQUAD, this is at least as good as MAN OF STEEL and better than the average offering from the Marvel sausage factory.
Also, seeing the trailer for VALERIAN in 3D almost made me cry.
I believe Steve meant that he does not know about getting married, having kids, getting old and have a normal life cos he has not done it yet.
Well, sure it makes perfect sense when science is the explanation
But really, I don't think I've walked through one in the past decade or so *_*
It really was such a great scene
Wow I feel pretty torn about this film. It's pretty well made, it is very focused on what it wants to be, and I think it does that really well. It's... just not at all what I wanted from a Wonder Woman film. I don't even think the trailers prepared me for it. While extremely PG-13 friendly, this is one bleak film. It's a big anti-war movie, it's distressing to watch, and the lesson that comes out of it is that superheroism cannot save or redeem humanity, but only out faith in each other no matter how hard a struggle it can be. It's rough.
The first third of the film is the perfect Wonder Woman introduction. Colorful. Grand. Filled with child like wonder. Diana growing up was a joy to watch and the scale is everything that I expect from something taking the material really seriously. The casting is great. Gal Gadot is PERFECT as Diana. But... once they left the island, I lost all sense of joy. Much like it was for Diana, I felt the wonder and excitement drained out of me bit by bit. The film lost all color and became the trademark Snyder blue tone of death. Even the humorous scenes had an edge of darkness in them. Humanity is shit. War is shit. Mankind is trapped in a self-created loop of hate and despair. What the film presents as hope is the fading light of love we hold in our hearts when we think of the small joys and the little sacrifices made to help someone else get through a hard day. It's a dreadful feeling.
This is the perfect Wonder Woman for Snyder's DCEU, and fits perfectly in tone. It's just hard to enjoy because much like Man of Steel, how I see Superman and Wonder Woman is so different. Batman v Superman might well be the only one which really resonated me in what I love from DC because Batman is true darkness and Superman was played up to the max as a misunderstood god of light.
Two things I give tons of credit to the film though is a) how any time Wonder Woman DOES something in the film, it feels otherworldly, godly, and just stunning. b) how the film does not remotely shy away from condemnation of war on all sides, as something that should never be celebrated, and that even the good guys must recognize that what they are doing is shit, even if they are forced to for the right reasons. This is something Captain America TFA never quite managed to even touch.
The first third of the film is the perfect Wonder Woman introduction. Colorful. Grand. Filled with child like wonder. Diana growing up was a joy to watch and the scale is everything that I expect from something taking the material really seriously. The casting is great. Gal Gadot is PERFECT as Diana. But... once they left the island, I lost all sense of joy. Much like it was for Diana, I felt the wonder and excitement drained out of me bit by bit. The film lost all color and became the trademark Snyder blue tone of death. Even the humorous scenes had an edge of darkness in them. Humanity is shit. War is shit. Mankind is trapped in a self-created loop of hate and despair. What the film presents as hope is the fading light of love we hold in our hearts when we think of the small joys and the little sacrifices made to help someone else get through a hard day. It's a dreadful feeling.
This is the perfect Wonder Woman for Snyder's DCEU, and fits perfectly in tone. It's just hard to enjoy because much like Man of Steel, how I see Superman and Wonder Woman is so different. Batman v Superman might well be the only one which really resonated me in what I love from DC because Batman is true darkness and Superman was played up to the max as a misunderstood god of light.
Two things I give tons of credit to the film though is a) how any time Wonder Woman DOES something in the film, it feels otherworldly, godly, and just stunning. b) how the film does not remotely shy away from condemnation of war on all sides, as something that should never be celebrated, and that even the good guys must recognize that what they are doing is shit, even if they are forced to for the right reasons. This is something Captain America TFA never quite managed to even touch.
Really liked it but the ending was absolutely bad. "I believe in love", urgh.
The action was fantastic, even with the overabundance of CG, but the slow-mos ruined them irreparably. The knee-of-justice through the window and the shoulder charge to the tank were the best highlights for me.
Pyne is great as usual. The humour was perfect. Ares was great.
Don't know why the movie shitballed in the ending with the I believe in love, the force awakens-alike enlightening moment where WW closes her eyes in the middle of a fight, and the soldiers hugging each other like this movie wasn't about a war with "25 million people dead" and bayonettes poking people to death.
Granted even with all the humour the movie felt very dark and sad, but Diana's change of heart about her "mission" and the My little pony message of the ending should have been introduced and developed WAAAY better.
And they shouldn't have spammed Is she with you so much.
The action was fantastic, even with the overabundance of CG, but the slow-mos ruined them irreparably. The knee-of-justice through the window and the shoulder charge to the tank were the best highlights for me.
Pyne is great as usual. The humour was perfect. Ares was great.
Don't know why the movie shitballed in the ending with the I believe in love, the force awakens-alike enlightening moment where WW closes her eyes in the middle of a fight, and the soldiers hugging each other like this movie wasn't about a war with "25 million people dead" and bayonettes poking people to death.
Granted even with all the humour the movie felt very dark and sad, but Diana's change of heart about her "mission" and the My little pony message of the ending should have been introduced and developed WAAAY better.
And they shouldn't have spammed Is she with you so much.
giancarlo123x
Banned
Bane is nothing but cheese, he was mocked since day one.
SinOfHeart
Neo Member
The question he was asked is what people would do after the war. Which his answer was basically get married, have kids, and get old, and then she asked what that was like and since the war was still going and he hadn't accomplished any of those things he said he had no idea.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I was actually surpsised how much I liked Gal's acting. When she geared up to cross No Man's Land, and when she broke down after seeing the village gassed, I was sold. She nailed those moments, and now I can't picture anyone else as Wonder Woman.
Was I the only one bothered by Pine's delivery at times? His start-stop-start delivery?
Was I the only one bothered by Pine's delivery at times? His start-stop-start delivery?
Ah. Gotcha. I think I read too much into their back-and-forth. Probably mostly because I liked the idea he was possibly still a virgin.
Anton Sugar
Member
This feels pretty revisionist. By and large, it seemed like Bane was a well-liked villain. Most people seem to complain about how he went out like a scrub/was something of a Red Herring when he should have been the primary villain.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Yeah, Bane is best part of that garbage movie. His "do you feel in control?" line still rocks me with how great it is.
mugurumakensei
Member
Nah, people thought his lines were cheesy, but they still liked him as a villain.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I'm sure some did and some didn't, like a lot of things. I've never noticed one of these opinions shown strongly over the other, but in the end I guess it is a moot point for Wonder Woman.
I saw this yesterday and thought it was awesome.
One thing the movie left me wondering after the fight with Ares though, is where does it go in terms of scale from here on out? It felt like she was insanely strong at the end, does this mean future movies will end up at a similar crazy scale like that end fight or what you see in Avengers/later marvel movies? I kind of prefer the less...save the world variety of superhero films, though maybe that's impossible with WW (I know nothing about her).
One thing the movie left me wondering after the fight with Ares though, is where does it go in terms of scale from here on out? It felt like she was insanely strong at the end, does this mean future movies will end up at a similar crazy scale like that end fight or what you see in Avengers/later marvel movies? I kind of prefer the less...save the world variety of superhero films, though maybe that's impossible with WW (I know nothing about her).
Just back from it. An important move, but not a good movie.
And maybe I need to see her in something else, because so far I've only seen Gal Gadot in BvS and this and, frankly, she can't act her way out of a paper bag.
I also never want to see slow motion in an action sequence again as I think in one film I have just seen a lifetime's supply.
And maybe I need to see her in something else, because so far I've only seen Gal Gadot in BvS and this and, frankly, she can't act her way out of a paper bag.
I also never want to see slow motion in an action sequence again as I think in one film I have just seen a lifetime's supply.
