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[Shoeless]

How about people see that film first?

I don't get how people hate on things and call them bad before they've even seen them.

There were people in another thread before Wonder Woman's release calling the movie 100% bad and it wasn't even released yet. I replied to them at the time and haven't seen them say anything since the release of Wonder Woman so I just wonder if people love being apart of clubs where they put hate on things they haven't even seen.

The Justice League movie is, at the very least, going to be an interesting exercise about a franchise in transition for a few reasons, so I'm interested to see how it pans out in that respect. On the one hand, we know that Snyder's probably had some pressure for Warner Brothers to make his take on superheroes more "Marvely" since they know that's been a chief critical and commercial complaint.

On the other hand, Wonder Woman has kind of established the tone that Snyder probably was going for on some level, but didn't have the nuance to pull off, which was a kind of genuineness, about superheroes being in the real world. Jenkins managed to make you believe in a superhero with heart without resorting to the quips and one-liners that Marvel has established for their likable heroes.

And on the third hand, you've got the guy that ESTABLISHED the Marvel "house style" of quips and one-liners finishing up Justice League since Snyder bowed out for reasons that no one is going to criticize.

So in terms of tone, especially if Warner Brothers realizes that Wonder Woman is the tone that people want in their DCEU movies going forward, the Justice League movie is going to be an interesting Frankenstein's monster, as Warner Brothers continues to struggle with defining a new house style and going forward with it.

 

[anaron]

Yeah 150 is still huge

This genre got budget bloat though where that is on the lower end these days. Particularly with dceu movies. JL is prolly 250+

Only times where I was put off by cgi here were where they showed her face on a stuntdouble. It looked outright awful but they were small moments.

Oh and also when little Diana jumped off a cliff or whatever. Lmao at the greenscreen effect they had there

Yeah that was awful. Lol

 

[Solid SOAP]

Saw it, not impressed. Easily DC's best in a while but like... really not saying much. It felt very paint by numbers to me, give or take a few cool scenes, such as the No Man's Land scene.

A bit disappointed, truly. Oh well!

 

[Crankshaft]

I wasn't disappointed but I was expecting more after all the talk about how great (and how fresh) it was. I saw it and thought it was a good movie but I was expecting great.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

I wasn't disappointed but I was expecting more after all the talk about how great (and how fresh) it was. I saw it and thought it was a good movie but I was expecting great.

I believe the positive reaction to the movie is based mostly on Diana herself. If you felt that emotional connection to her character, then that elevates the movie for you.

If you didn't really feel that all that much, I would expect that you'd enjoy it less. That's my take on it anyways - it was Gal's performance and take on Diana that made it a wonderful film for me.

 

[Palmer_v1]

Well, I didn't think Gal Gadot would do a very good job as Wonderwoman, and while I still wish she had a bit more muscle on her frame, I was absolutely wrong about her in every other way.

Also, I've always liked Chris Pine, but he did a damn good job here. His final scenes in the plane were amazing.

Amazing movie.

 

[stn]

I really liked it! Gal was awesome as WW, she was really cute in some scenes (mostly the ones where she was clueless about modern-day society). I even enjoyed the humor, too, as I typically hate "cheesy" jokes that feel forced. But it was natural here. My only complaint would be the way Ares was handled, but even then its minor.

Worth watching.

 

[Dalek]

Well, I didn't think Gal Gadot would do a very good job as Wonderwoman, and while I still wish she had a bit more muscle on her frame, I was absolutely wrong about her in every other way.

Also, I've always liked Chris Pine, but he did a damn good job here. His final scenes in the plane were amazing.

Amazing movie.

Yeah, Gal is so incredible it's easy to overlook Chris Pine who really knocked it out of the park.

 

[border]

In retrospect, the first 30 minutes of the movie don't make a lot of sense:

How old is Diana? If she was born around the end of the Greek gods, she is presumably like 2000+ years old. So why does everyone regard her like she's some know-nothing rookie? Not only is she as old as time, but they also know she is a god.

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

 

[More_Badass]

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

It was stated that the fear is that the stronger Diana got, then Ares would be able to find her/the island. That's why she was never trained in combat before and why her mother feared training her

 

[AzerPhire]

It was stated that the fear is that the stronger Diana got, then Ares would be able to find her/the island. That's why she was never trained in combat before and why her mother feared training her

That and if Diana knew of her purpose she would actively try to seek out Ares.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

In retrospect, the first 30 minutes of the movie don't make a lot of sense:

How old is Diana? If she was born around the end of the Greek gods, she is presumably like 2000+ years old. So why does everyone regard her like she's some know-nothing rookie? Not only is she as old as time, but they also know she is a god.

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

Time might pass differently near the island. That's all I got.

 

[TyrantII]

In retrospect, the first 30 minutes of the movie don't make a lot of sense:

How old is Diana? If she was born around the end of the Greek gods, she is presumably like 2000+ years old. So why does everyone regard her like she's some know-nothing rookie? Not only is she as old as time, but they also know she is a god.

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

God and mother shit.

 

[Shaanyboi]

In retrospect, the first 30 minutes of the movie don't make a lot of sense:

How old is Diana? If she was born around the end of the Greek gods, she is presumably like 2000+ years old. So why does everyone regard her like she's some know-nothing rookie? Not only is she as old as time, but they also know she is a god.

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

To your last point, what parent wants to send their child into combat? Let alone against the God of War? Wouldn't most rather be convinced that the danger is already disposed of, so why even humor the notion?

 

[Anton Sugar]

Overall, really enjoyed this. Saw it with my girlfriend and sister and they both really liked it, but thought some of the gender politic decisions were...strange.

Script had some typical superhero movie pitfalls. I think this movie lives or dies by how much you enjoy Gadot/Wonder Woman. Similar to The First Avenger.

Gal Gadot definitely sold me on her Wonder Woman. She's ridiculously charming/likable and did well in the role.

 

[TyrantII]

I keep circling round to the concerns about casting Gal as Diana. She trained her butt off, had good direction, and it worked out wonderfully. Another big fat L for the internet cabal as far as I'm concerned.

You think after Ledger they'd take a wait and see approach.

Nah.

 

[bob_arctor]

I keep circling round to the concerns about casting Gal as Diana. Another big fat L for the internet cabal as far as I'm concerned.

You think after Ledger they'd take a wait and see approach.

Nah.

Yup. She was absolutely perfect.

 

[pestul]

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?.

This one got me in the film. When she jumps on the tower and digs into the stone with her hands and then leaves a hand print at the top.. how the f' did she not realize she was that powerful up until that point?

 

[Anton Sugar]

In retrospect, the first 30 minutes of the movie don't make a lot of sense:

How old is Diana? If she was born around the end of the Greek gods, she is presumably like 2000+ years old. So why does everyone regard her like she's some know-nothing rookie? Not only is she as old as time, but they also know she is a god.

Why does Robin Wright knock her sword away and stalk towards her saying "You think a fight is always going to be fair?!" Is this really the first time in two millennia that you decided to train her in unarmed combat?

Why does it take hundreds of years for her powers to manifest themselves? Why is she only now learning that she can punch a hole in the wall or send out a shockwave with her bracelets?

Why does her "mother" insist that she not be trained for combat, when in fact the sole purpose of Diana's existence is to be a defensive weapon? The island seems to have existed in peaceful isolation for thousands of years, so I'm not even sure what the harm would be in training her.

I have a similar line of questions regarding the society/culture.

It bugged my group that we have no idea how romantic Amazonian romantic relationships work. It would be less of an issue if the movie wasn't so intent on pushing this awkward sexual chemistry between Diana and Steve.

The Amazons are aware of how reproduction works, but Diana was created from clay. Are they all created from clay? It is mentioned of Diana often and it seemed like a special thing, but Diana says her books conclude that men are necessarily for reproduction but not for pleasure. Maybe I missed something, but how do Amazons reproduce?

Are Amazons asexual? Given how much a culture shapes sexuality, you would think that Diana would be gay or bi, but the moment she sees a man, she's got that desire in her eyes. It's also treated like it's the first time she's experienced romantic attraction.

Given how a lot of pop movies (Beauty and the Beast, as a recent example) are simultaneously lauded and criticized for throwing a scrap to the LGBT community, not approaching this angle at all in Wonder Woman seems a missed opportunity. They wouldn't have had to do much--a few lines, a shot or two. Actually, when Antiope was killed, there was a very measured shot of another woman running to her and I thought it would just subtly reveal she was her lover/wife/etc., but nope, just a concerned Amazon.

Again--a lot of these are questions we had simply because the movie completely ignores that aspect of the Amazon culture. It would be simple and easy to explain that Diana has loved women in the hundreds of years that she has been alive, that she is bi and this isn't the first time she has felt love or lust. But because the movie leaves those questions unanswered, it sort of stinks of the Born Sexy Yesterday trope.

To be clear--overall, I really enjoyed the movie and am so glad DC finally has a movie it can be proud of. I can't wait to see more of Gadot and think Jenkins did a damned fine job. The main problems I had were with the script (including the above) and the occasional awkward shot choice (like the very last one, some of the bad green screen, the bad guys cackling maniacally outside of the gas chamber/room, etc.)

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Days later the thing I keep going back to is why nobody was impressed by her flipping a fucking tank.

How is that not all any of them talked about? Holy shit, she flipped a tank! Did you see that? What the fuck don't get close to her she's a monster.

 

[Crazyorloco]

Just bought the official movie novelisation and artbook, and bought tickets to watch the film again on Wednesday.

I'm in pretty deep.

I also can't wait to see the amazons again in Justice League. I'm excited to see how Zack does their fight scenes. I wonder if we'll see Diana go back to Themyscira to try and aide her family in protecting their motherbox from Steppenwolf's forces.

I've seen the film twice already myself. I'm mainly a superman/batman fan, but I'm becoming a wonder woman fan lol I'm looking forward to Justice League. I'm a little nervous because Patty Jenkins doesn't seem to be a part of it.

Days later the thing I keep going back to is why nobody was impressed by her flipping a fucking tank.

How is that not all any of them talked about? Holy shit, she flipped a tank! Did you see that? What the fuck don't get close to her she's a monster.

Lol I like that scene. There are so many cool parts. I guess that one gets lost in the midst of all the other scenes.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

I have a similar line of questions regarding the society/culture.

It bugged my group that we have no idea how romantic Amazonian romantic relationships work. It would be less of an issue if the movie wasn't so intent on pushing this awkward sexual chemistry between Diana and Steve.

The Amazons are aware of how reproduction works, but Diana was created from clay. Are they all created from clay? It is mentioned of Diana often and it seemed like a special thing, but Diana says her books conclude that men are necessarily for reproduction but not for pleasure. Maybe I missed something, but how do Amazons reproduce?

Are Amazons asexual? Given how much a culture shapes sexuality, you would think that Diana would be gay or bi, but the moment she sees a man, she's got that desire in her eyes. It's also treated like it's the first time she's experienced romantic attraction.

Given how a lot of pop movies (Beauty and the Beast, as a recent example) are simultaneously lauded and criticized for throwing a scrap to the LGBT community, not approaching this angle at all in Wonder Woman seems a missed opportunity. They wouldn't have had to do much--a few lines, a shot or two. Actually, when Antiope was killed, there was a very measured shot of another woman running to her and I thought it would just subtly reveal she was her lover/wife/etc., but nope, just a concerned Amazon.

Again--a lot of these are questions we had simply because the movie completely ignores that aspect of the Amazon culture. It would be simple and easy to explain that Diana has loved women in the hundreds of years that she has been alive, that she is bi and this isn't the first time she has felt love or lust. But because the movie leaves those questions unanswered, it sort of stinks of the Born Sexy Yesterday trope.

To be clear--overall, I really enjoyed the movie and am so glad DC finally has a movie it can be proud of. I can't wait to see more of Gadot and think Jenkins did a damned fine job. The main problems I had were with the script (including the above) and the occasional awkward shot choice (like the very last one, some of the bad green screen, the bad guys cackling maniacally outside of the gas chamber/room, etc.)

I would agree with this. It didn't bother me in the context of the movie (I don't think they had time to really get in to it), but those are things I'd like explored in the future.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Oh yeah, Diana sizing up that woman to get an outfit for the Gala was probably my favorite humor moment. She does extremely well at conveying things without words, noticed that throughout the movie.

 

[Vahagn]

Thoughts.

- Gal gadot can't act well, but was perfect for the role. At no point did I think she wasn't up to the task or was unconvinced of her as WW.

- Pine was great in the movie, and their chemistry was phenomenal.

- Ares being a nerdy looking dude with a mustache .
was all wrong. They should have done better there.

- The cheesy lines in act 3 were the worst part of the movie for me. I don't understand how this is still a thing. How could Nolan do 3 movies without 1 cheesy line combined in them, and these other movies have 4 or 5 each?

- Final fight scene was typical new generation D.C. Stuff, It's getting boring as hell.

- Her falling in love with Chris and using that as the source of her Highest point sucks too. She would have been so much more of a feminist icon if she got to where she got to without that. It's very Neo/Star Lord-y. It would be great to see someone break that trope and a feminist icon like her would have been the perfect person to do it

 

[TyrantII]

- Her falling in love with Chris and using that as the source of her Highest point sucks too. She would have been so much more of a feminist icon if she got to where she got to without that. It's very Neo/Star Lord-y. It would be great to see someone break that trope and a feminist icon like her would have been the perfect person to do it

I don't it so clear cut that she did, although they did it in a way where you can very plausibly make an argument that she did. I think they should have left Steve saying he loved her on the cutting room floor to make it even more ambiguous.

That line sort of muddles his sacrifice and Diana understanding that there are good qualities in humans worthy of fighting for, despite their ability to commit such cruelty.

 

[border]

It was stated that the fear is that the stronger Diana got, then Ares would be able to find her/the island. That's why she was never trained in combat before and why her mother feared training her

So does her mother believe that Ares is still out there waiting to attack? Or does she believe Ares has long since died or gone away? The movie tries to play it both ways.

 

[Vahagn]

So does her mother believe that Ares is still out there waiting to attack? Or does she believe Ares has long since died or gone away? The movie tries to play it both ways.

I think she believes ares is waiting to attack, she tells Diana that ares is long since gone to keep her from doing what she knows is the inevitable. But in scenes without Diana, it's clear she knows what's up.

I don't it so clear cut that she did, although they did it in a way where you can very plausibly make an argument that she did. I think they should have left Steve saying he loved her on the cutting room floor to make it even more ambiguous.

That line sort of muddles his sacrifice and Diana understanding that there are good qualities in humans worthy of fighting for, despite their ability to commit such cruelty.

Yea, seeing the boys band together after they ran out of billets waiting for inevitable death from the German death swuad...Hearing Steve tell her that he can win the battle but she can save the world and watch him sacrifice himself, this should have been enough to get to her final form. The enduring examples of human unselfishness and bravery amidst the convincing argument Ares was presenting. I'm fine with the love story, just not for it being the reason a feminist badass hero reaches her final form. One of my all time favorite scenes in marvel was the days of future past scene where Mystique has to choose between carrying out revenge or turning on Magneto to showcase to the world that Mutants can be trusted to do the right thing and save humanity with the cameras watching. That internal struggle that was building up for the whole movie, as well as how she did it and how she took off Magneto's helmet and said "He's all yours Charles" to me is the gold standard of these kinds of internal hero conflicts between despair and the greater good.

If instead of that, we saw some cheesy love flashback between her and Charles as the catalyst for that decision, it would have really hurt the movie and that moment. It feels like that's what happened here.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So does her mother believe that Ares is still out there waiting to attack? Or does she believe Ares has long since died or gone away? The movie tries to play it both ways.

Nah, it's quite clear that Diana's mom lied a lot to protect Diana from Ares and also the truth about humanity.

 

[Shaanyboi]

- The cheesy lines in act 3 were the worst part of the movie for me. I don't understand how this is still a thing. How could Nolan do 3 movies without 1 cheesy line combined in them, and these other movies have 4 or 5 each?

Nolan didn't have cheesy lines? What am I reading?

 

[Sean C]

The Amazons are aware of how reproduction works, but Diana was created from clay. Are they all created from clay? It is mentioned of Diana often and it seemed like a special thing, but Diana says her books conclude that men are necessarily for reproduction but not for pleasure. Maybe I missed something, but how do Amazons reproduce?

The Amazons don't reproduce. Diana is the only child they've ever had.

Actually, when Antiope was killed, there was a very measured shot of another woman running to her and I thought it would just subtly reveal she was her lover/wife/etc., but nope, just a concerned Amazon.

That was what that shot was about, I thought. On what basis do you conclude it was just a concerned Amazon.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Nolan didn't have cheesy lines? What am I reading?

I remember the "I don't have to kill you, but I don't have to save you" sounding kinda...edgy. Like if I was 13 and writing something I'd be like "This is the coolest shit ever"...but as for cheesy it might be worth posting Patty Jenkins' thoughts on the matter..

 

[Vahagn]

Nolan didn't have cheesy lines? What am I reading?

He really didn't. There might have been one or two between the 3 movies. But NOTHING like what's going on in the last 4 D.C. Movies

 

[broncobuster]

He really didn't. There might have been one or two between the 3 movies. But NOTHING like what's going on in the last 4 D.C. Movies

Someone get this hothead out of here!

 

[Vahagn]

I remember the "I don't have to kill you, but I don't have to save you" sounding kinda...edgy. Like if I was 13 and writing something I'd be like "This is the coolest shit ever"...but as for cheesy it might be worth posting Patty Jenkins' thoughts on the matter..

Cheesy lines are poorly written lines. It's not the subject matter, it's the poor execution. Cheesily saying "love will save the world" in the middle of a fight scene is cheesy and hamfisted.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Thoughts.

- Her falling in love with Chris and using that as the source of her Highest point sucks too. She would have been so much more of a feminist icon if she got to where she got to without that. It's very Neo/Star Lord-y. It would be great to see someone break that trope and a feminist icon like her would have been the perfect person to do it

I applaud Patty for making a film where a woman can be a feminist icon and not falling into this weird and inaccurate idea that a feminist cannot be in love with a man.

The connection between Steve and Diana was strong and thoroughly believable. I am sure Patty could have made it work without it, but I don't think we're any lesser for her choosing to take the characters down that path.

Just my view, of course.

 

[elrechazado]

Superman had the misfortune of growing up as one of us scummy humans. Was far easier for WW to be heroic given her limited knowledge of humanity, belief that humans were all good (which she got from her mother's stories) and her laser focus on finding Aries.

Maybe if WW had been raised like Superman, seeing all the ugliness for her whole life maybe all of her actions and reactions wouldn't have been so positive.

Superman had a dad who literally told him to let a school bus full of kids he personally knew drown because it might cause problems to save them. No wonder supes is so reckless.

 

[Vahagn]

Someone get this hothead out of here!

Look at how Nolan handles Bruce's great love dying in Dark knight and his subsequent reaction vs how Wonder Woman handles it. They're both enraged by it and unload extra can of kick ass on the opponent, but The execution is worlds different.

I applaud Patty for making a film where a woman can be a feminist icon and not falling into this weird and inaccurate idea that a feminist cannot be in love with a man.

The connection between Steve and Diana was strong and thoroughly believable. I am sure Patty could have made it work without it, but I don't think we're any lesser for her choosing to take the characters down that path.

Just my view, of course.

I agree though. I don't have a problem with the love story or her falling in love. I have a problem with her needing romantic love to reach her final form. It's a nuanced difference, but I think it's important. Seeing humanity's bravery and courage should have been enough at that moment, for her to get there.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I've seen it twice now (Love it) and I only saw the 'hints' about Diana being the god killer the second time round. Didn't get the hints in regards to Sir Morgan being Ares at all.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I've seen it twice now (Love it) and I only saw the 'hints' about Diana being the god killer the second time round. Didn't get the hints in regards to Sir Morgan being Ares at all.

It doesn't seem like there are any real hints, it's only obvious in the sense of "Oh I bet they're doing this thing where the one good guy is really the bad guy, he's totally Ares...yeah okay I was right he was totally Ares."

Also you never see that character acting without other protagonists around like you do Luddendorf.

I dunno, movie was full of tropes so one more wasn't surprising.

 

[Vahagn]

Let me explain this better. The closest analogy I can think of to Wonder Woman in the recent cinematic universe are Thor and Superman. Basically Gods. Both of those guys have this undying commitment to the greater Good. To sacrifice, to truth. And Diana starts the way. She's driven by these high minded noble ideals. And at the end, she sees Steve and the other men literally approach certain death to save lives. It SHOULD have been enough to convince her of humanity's goodness and why she was right from he beginning to fight on their behalf. Introducing the "oh my god romantic love is so awesome I'm in my final form now" seems disappointing for her. I'm fine with the love story as I was fine with the Thor and superman ones. I just wish it wasn't the catalyst for her final form. Bravery, courage, sacrifice, unselfishness that were being displayed by steve and the other guys would have been more in line with what she believed about humanity.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I agree though. I don't have a problem with the love story or her falling in love. I have a problem with her needing romantic love to reach her final form. It's a nuanced difference, but I think it's important. Seeing humanity's bravery and courage should have been enough at that moment, for her to get there.

I didn't take it that she was transformed by loving him/him loving her. She was inspired by his sacrifice. That humans could be totally selfless.

The line earlier in the movie where Chief mentions that Steve's people subjugated his people specifically puts doubt in Diana's mind about Steve (and by extension, all of humanity). But then he selflessly gives his life to save everyone around. She's moved by this.

 

[TheTylerDurden]

Look at how Nolan handles Bruce's great love dying in Dark knight and his subsequent reaction vs how Wonder Woman handles it. They're both enraged by it and unload extra can of kick ass on the opponent, but The execution is worlds different.




I agree though. I don't have a problem with the love story or her falling in love. I have a problem with her needing romantic love to reach her final form. It's a nuanced difference, but I think it's important. Seeing humanity's bravery and courage should have been enough at that moment, for her to get there.

I don't believe she needed love to get there. But the love/loss angle coupled with Steve's sacrifice added the emotional tie that brought Diana fully into our world, and to be honest, rounded out her character more completely. She is more interesting and relatable because of the love she felt, not in spite of it.

 

[Vahagn]

I didn't take it that she was transformed by loving him/him loving her. She was inspired by his sacrifice. That humans could be totally selfless.

The line earlier in the movie where Chief mentions that Steve's people subjugated his people specifically puts doubt in Diana's mind about Steve (and by extension, all of humanity). But then he selflessly gives his life to save everyone around. She's moved by this.

I think changing right as she realized he said "I love you" and saying "love will save the world" erodes that. But if that's your impression, than at the very least the movie was done ambiguously/subtly enough to allow for that interpretation, which is good. I just wish it was less ambiguous that she was moved by the sacrifice rather than the "I love you" line.

 

[Orochinagis]

Just one last thing I noticed, Diana actress really didnt feel like she was using her strengh or struggling at all, like you can see Diana destroying everything in heroic poses and choreography but you dont see her like tensing her body or the feel of her physical strengh.

So far only in the No Mans land scene when she was raising her shield I actually saw her tensing her body

 

[Crazyorloco]

Thoughts.

- The cheesy lines in act 3 were the worst part of the movie for me. I don't understand how this is still a thing. How could Nolan do 3 movies without 1 cheesy line combined in them, and these other movies have 4 or 5 each?

You know I felt weird about the cheesy lines too Especially the ones about love, but I think for me it stems from being a cold motherfucker when it comes to love. It's uncomfortable hearing things about love for me. The more I think about the cheesy lines, the more I accept them. These are feel good lines. I think we need films with more of that.

Also in regards to "cheesy" from Patty herself*:

"Did you say cheesy? Cheesy is one of the words banned in my world. I'm tired of sincerity being something we have to be afraid of doing. It's been like that for 20 years, that the entertainment and art world has shied away from sincerity, real sincerity, because they feel they have to wink at the audience because that's what the kids like. We have to do the real stories now. The world is in crisis.

I wanted to tell a story about a hero who believes in love, who is filled with love, who believes in change and the betterment of mankind. I believe in it. It's terrible when it makes so many artists afraid to be sincere and truthful and emotional, and relegates them to the too-cool-for-school department. Art is supposed to bring beauty to the world." -Patty Jenkins

*edit beaten like a war drum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/movies/wonder-woman-gal-gadot-patty-jenkins.html?_r=0

 

[Vahagn]

Thoughts.

- The cheesy lines in act 3 were the worst part of the movie for me. I don't understand how this is still a thing. How could Nolan do 3 movies without 1 cheesy line combined in them, and these other movies have 4 or 5 each?



You know I felt weird about the cheesy lines too Especially the ones about love, but I think for me it stems from being a cold motherfucker when it comes to love. It's uncomfortable hearing things about love for me. The more I think about the cheesy lines, the more I accept them. These are feel good lines. I think we need films with more of that.

Also in regards to "cheesy" from Patty herself:



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/movies/wonder-woman-gal-gadot-patty-jenkins.html?_r=0

I still think it's an execution thing not a content thing. That being said, I realize this movie also has a big audience of little boys and girls, and that cheesy lines (and her cheesily flying into the sky at the end) is made for that audience. So I get it.

I've seen it twice now (Love it) and I only saw the 'hints' about Diana being the god killer the second time round. Didn't get the hints in regards to Sir Morgan being Ares at all.

I remember being astonished that Steve's secretary was able to hold the sword. That was the first moment in the movie where I thought "wait a minute, maybe this sword isn't that special"

 

[Bronetta]

I really enjoyed the movie but the romance rubbed me the wrong way. I enjoyed their relationship much more as this awkward friendship/camaradrie where he explains the world to her but her existence is so far beyond his comprehension.

The village scene where they dance together was well done but we couldnt just leave it well alone. I guess having a makeout scene is mandatory for Hollywood nowadays, it just rubbed me the wrong way. Romance isnt the only kind of love. But I guess after he saw her destroying bunkers and flipping tanks he just couldn't wait to get his lil watch flipped too.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I would agree with this. It didn't bother me in the context of the movie (I don't think they had time to really get in to it), but those are things I'd like explored in the future.

Yeah, like I said, it really would have been a non-issue, but a heterosexual romance formed the B plot of the movie, so I couldn't help but think of those things.

- Ares being a nerdy looking dude with a mustache .
was all wrong. They should have done better there.

Agreed. I like--actually, love--David Thewlis, but seeing him as buff Ares in the past WITH the fucking mustache...so damned goofy.

- Her falling in love with Chris and using that as the source of her Highest point sucks too. She would have been so much more of a feminist icon if she got to where she got to without that. It's very Neo/Star Lord-y. It would be great to see someone break that trope and a feminist icon like her would have been the perfect person to do it

Yea, seeing the boys band together after they ran out of billets waiting for inevitable death from the German death swuad...Hearing Steve tell her that he can win the battle but she can save the world and watch him sacrifice himself, this should have been enough to get to her final form. The enduring examples of human unselfishness and bravery amidst the convincing argument Ares was presenting. I'm fine with the love story, just not for it being the reason a feminist badass hero reaches her final form. One of my all time favorite scenes in marvel was the days of future past scene where Mystique has to choose between carrying out revenge or turning on Magneto to showcase to the world that Mutants can be trusted to do the right thing and save humanity with the cameras watching. That internal struggle that was building up for the whole movie, as well as how she did it and how she took off Magneto's helmet and said "He's all yours Charles" to me is the gold standard of these kinds of internal hero conflicts between despair and the greater good.

Definitely agree with this. It felt like it cheapened her turn as a hero. Instead of focusing on the heroics/selflessness of humanity, or even calling back to the Amazons and their mission to protect the world, her love for Steve is the catalyst. Didn't like that.

That was what that shot was about, I thought. On what basis do you conclude it was just a concerned Amazon.

Hmm, maybe I missed something? I mean, on what basis do you conclude she was a lover? We don't see her kiss Antiope, we don't see her tell Antiope she loves her, etc. *Every* Amazon present is sad and weepy, so she just seemed like another sad and weepy Amazon as opposed to someone special to her.

I remember the "I don't have to kill you, but I don't have to save you" sounding kinda...edgy. Like if I was 13 and writing something I'd be like "This is the coolest shit ever"...but as for cheesy it might be worth posting Patty Jenkins' thoughts on the matter..

Cheesy lines are poorly written lines. It's not the subject matter, it's the poor execution. Cheesily saying "love will save the world" in the middle of a fight scene is cheesy and hamfisted.

I mean, it just made my group wonder, "Would they have made a male superhero say 'I fight for love'?"

I don't think fighting for love is a bad thing, but there was something in the execution that I didn't like.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Yeah, like I said, it really would have been a non-issue, but a heterosexual romance formed the B plot of the movie, so I couldn't help but think of those things.



Agreed. I like--actually, love--David Thewlis, but seeing him as buff Ares in the past WITH the fucking mustache...so damned goofy.





Definitely agree with this. It felt like it cheapened her turn as a hero. Instead of focusing on the heroics/selflessness of humanity, or even calling back to the Amazons and their mission to protect the world, her love for Steve is the catalyst. Didn't like that.



Hmm, maybe I missed something? I mean, on what basis do you conclude she was a lover? We don't see her kiss Antiope, we don't see her tell Antiope she loves her, etc. *Every* Amazon present is sad and weepy, so she just seemed like another sad and weepy Amazon as opposed to someone special to her.





I mean, it just made my group wonder, "Would they have made a male superhero say 'I fight for love'?"

I don't think fighting for love is a bad thing, but there was something in the execution that I didn't like.

I think so, if it had been Wonder Man rather than Wonder Woman and if it was about what a male character represents. Maybe there would be another way of putting it, but it's a very Wonder Woman-y sort of thing, although I can't think of a declaration from a male superhero quite like that I also can't think of a male superhero who so stands for the same things as Wonder Woman and in the same fashion.

 

[Vahagn]

Yeah, like I said, it really would have been a non-issue, but a heterosexual romance formed the B plot of the movie, so I couldn't help but think of those things.



Agreed. I like--actually, love--David Thewlis, but seeing him as buff Ares in the past WITH the fucking mustache...so damned goofy.





Definitely agree with this. It felt like it cheapened her turn as a hero. Instead of focusing on the heroics/selflessness of humanity, or even calling back to the Amazons and their mission to protect the world, her love for Steve is the catalyst. Didn't like that.



Hmm, maybe I missed something? I mean, on what basis do you conclude she was a lover? We don't see her kiss Antiope, we don't see her tell Antiope she loves her, etc. *Every* Amazon present is sad and weepy, so she just seemed like another sad and weepy Amazon as opposed to someone special to her.





I mean, it just made my group wonder, "Would they have made a male superhero say 'I fight for love'?"

I don't think fighting for love is a bad thing, but there was something in the execution that I didn't like.

*daps*