Support NeoGAF

[TriAceJP]

But as the characters and worlds became more crystallized over the past couple years, I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable about this game.

I love GAF.

 

[QuixoticNeutral]

I have no interest in this game and no faith in its capacity for competent storytelling. (No prior experience with David Cage; just saying this from what was shown.)

That said, in its defence: if servile robots were conspicuously visible reminders of real-world historical oppression, there wouldn't be as much of a market for servile robots. The appeal of robot labour is the labour, not the fetish of targeted oppression (unless we're talking about sex dolls, which aren't exactly Roombas; they're an edge case where the fetish is actually the selling point). Robot labour exists to disguise the discomfort of ownership and shove it under the rug, in the same way that drone warfare disguises the human cost of war.

If you were a private firm turning out a line of autonomous humanoid servants, you would be absolutely mad to do anything to set off your consumers' buried moral guilt. You would quite specifically create robots that, out of prejudice or whatever else, the owners are more inclined to treat as equal partners and employees rather than an unjustly bound, potentially revolutionary threat.

 

[hughesta]

Judging by the early promo material for the game, I don't have high hopes. Detroit seems like it'll be anything but subtle. It's something that is preventing me from getting hyped for this game, regardless of how much I love Heavy Rain and enjoyed Beyond Two Souls.

It was this image that really began to worry me. Notice the text in the upper right. This is not subtle storytelling.

oh my god that is laughable

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's only fucked if the majority of the robots in the game are white and/or the poc robots are only used as background decoration instead of being actual characters.

 

[arcticice]

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that the character was modeled after a real person.



Honestly, I'm less interested in talking about potential future slavery when we could just talk about actual slavery that happens today.

So you don't have any problem with Detroit, you just want a different game.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Yeah man. It's been awful since the first reveal

 

[TBiddy]

I love GAF.

Never change!

 

[Chuck Norris]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

What? This is a game where everything you do is based on choices. If the black guy is violent it's because you chose him to be

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Honestly, I'm less interested in talking about potential future slavery when we could just talk about actual slavery that happens today.

The whole game is about challenging what is to be human and potentially how 'fake' people can show more humanity than humans at times and how humans will discriminate against any differences.

Its a game based around a concept that will most likely come in the future, to criticise it for not being a direct comment on current slavery seems silly considering that goes against the whole point of the game.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Ummm... I may have utter disinterest in Detroit because of A) the David Cage connection, and B) the basic-ass "androids are people too!" story that stopped being surprising like 15 years ago

But this "hot take" seems wildly misinformed when the lead is being played by (or atleast modeled after) this guy:

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that the character was modeled after a real person.



Honestly, I'm less interested in talking about potential future slavery when we could just talk about actual slavery that happens today.

That should interest everyone, obviously.

However, as someone involved in AI research, I'm pretty interested in the theme of future slavery of androids too. We can have both, you know. This game doesn't have to be about what you want it to be about.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

This is how storytelling works.

You might take an alien invasion to say something about colonialism, for instance.

It isn't inherently 'fucked' - just need to hope that Quantic Dream and David Cage have some subtly and grace in handling the topic.

But that's the core of the problem. Obviously I can't speak for every other minority, but I find it profoundly insulting when white people tell me the only way they can empathize is if they imagine me as a fucking elf or something.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

I love stories that make humanity as a whole seem as terrible as they are, or would be, rather than the reaffirming comforts of selective self-flattery.

 

[Joey Ravn]

Side note. Have you read Judgment Day (1953), by Feldstein and Orlando?

 

[jediyoshi]

I'm still not convinced OP isn't pulling a ploy to reveal who hasn't actually looked at the game yet by being in agreement

 

[Neolombax]

I don't understand this concern of yours...at all.

 

[SolarMystic]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

Confirmed OP didn't even watch the trailer.

You can make different choices that are not violent, you can be a pacifist. This was shown during the conference.

 

[Psykotik]

i love a good thread backfire.

 

[jxN3]

Glad I wasn't trippin, because Marcus is definitely black / bi-racial. Not only that, but the trailer is filled with all nationalities, more so than most games.

Makes me wonder if we even watched the same trailer.

 

[Leafhopper]

How does GAF manage to always do this?

 

[ForsakenLotus]

I can't and won't tell you how to feel, but I think this line of thinking is seeing something that isn't there.

 

[Arklite]

I think your perception of the game is fucked, really.

 

[FDC1]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

Dude, stop, you haven't followed the game at all. The protagonists are neither violent or pacific, they are what the player chooses they are, that's the full point of the game.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Was he black? He was definitely darker that the other two protagonists, but it seemed ambiguous to me at best.

Also, even if he is, I'm not sure I would feel that much better since it'll be the only black protagonist being the angry and violent one. Even if those feelings are justified

But... We saw the white android shoot a cop? You didn't know there was a black character but now you do you're assuming he'll be the 'angry and violent one.'

What the fuck are you even talking about anymore? Your first post was an interesting thought but was clearly incorrect after a few posts but now you just seem to want to justify your feelings.

I also agree that the 'slaves' all being minorities would have been found distasteful as well, its best to have the androids represent human demography and diversity.

Either that or if they were all white a point could have been made about how racism made the white androids more marketable - just like the white doll experiment.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

But that's the core of the problem. Obviously I can't speak for every other minority, but I find it profoundly insulting when white people tell me the only way they can empathize is if they imagine me as a fucking elf or something.

What the hell are you talking about.

Are you saying we should only ever tell literal stories about real people in the real world? That fantasy stories with themes based on real life occurrences are offensive to you?

You must have a very small selection of stories that you actually like.

 

[lucebuce12]

How does GAF manage to always do this?

 

[arcticice]

i love a good thread backfire.

this was destined for it though as OP had no idea what he was talking about

 

[SolicitorPirate]

It's only fucked if the majority of the robots in the game are white and/or the poc robots are only used as background decoration instead of being actual characters.

That's where a lot of my fears lie. A bunch of posters are giving me shit because you see robots of colour in the trailer, but unless their stories are told, they're just window dressing. I will fully accept that I didn't realize that one of the protagonists was based on a real person who is mixed race however.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

But that's the core of the problem. Obviously I can't speak for every other minority, but I find it profoundly insulting when white people tell me the only way they can empathize is if they imagine me as a fucking elf or something.

I dont think this game is trying to do that, its tackling a very specific type of racism that isnt physically possible yet because we dont have AI or robots good enough.

Its a look into the future of how society will handle it, not asking people to feel sorry for historical pasts.

I appreciate your point and understand where your coming from but your criticising the game for something it hasnt done.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Confirmed OP didn't even watch the trailer.

You can make different choices that are not violent, you can be a pacifist. This was shown during the conference.

Yep

 

[grimmiq]

But... We saw the white android shoot a cop? Its also a game of choice.

What the fuck are you even talking about anymore? Your first post was an interesting thought but was clearly incorrect after a few posts but now you just seem to want to justify your feelings.

I also agree that the 'slaves' all being minorities would have been found distasteful as well, its best to have the androids represent human demography and diversity.

Either that or if they were all white a point could have been made about how racism made the white androids more marketable - just like the white doll experiment.

Plus Marcus, before player choice, defaulted to avoiding conflict, the white android girl was the one inciting the violence.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

Gotta say that the OP's thoughts never crossed my mind when i saw this trailer.

 

[mokalovesoulmate]

Spoiler

Outside the OP did not watch the trailer completely, is white/black thing still an issue? Why?

 

[CambriaRising]

That's where a lot of my fears lie. A bunch of posters are giving me shit because you see robots of colour in the trailer, but unless their stories are told, they're just window dressing. I will fully accept that I didn't realize that one of the protagonists was based on a real person who is mixed race however.

You are now complaining about extras not being fleshed out when they are specifically not the main cast. What are you doing?

 

[MANGOD]

https://youtu.be/sVj4HQmJZGA

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Spoiler

Outside the OP did not watch the trailer completely, is white/black thing still an issue? Why?

Please. Don't.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

That's where a lot of my fears lie. A bunch of posters are giving me shit because you see robots of colour in the trailer, but unless their stories are told, they're just window dressing. I will fully accept that I didn't realize that one of the protagonists was based on a real person who is mixed race however.

You should go to YouTube and look for "Jesse Williams BET speech"

 

[Lime]

Did you not see Jesse Williams in the trailer?

It's more fucked up that David Cage & Quantic Dream think it's particularly creative or new to tell a story about oppression and slavery with the allegory of robots.

 

[Ruff]

Guys tell me if I should be offended or not.

Spoiler

No

 

[bitbydeath]

Don't worry OP, this games is being made by the glorious people of France and not by racist Americans.

 

[In-Famous]

I think your perception of the game is fucked, really.

this sums it up really

 

[Wadiwasi]

I can get what you are trying to convey.......but just think about the reaction if the robots that are "slaves" were all black or any one specific race.

Talk about a major, major shitstorm. I think it was handled very appropriately so that no undertones were inferred.

 

[LowlySmokeGuy]

Judging by the early promo material for the game, I don't have high hopes. Detroit seems like it'll be anything but subtle. It's something that is preventing me from getting hyped for this game, regardless of how much I love Heavy Rain and enjoyed Beyond Two Souls.

It was this image that really began to worry me. Notice the text in the upper right. This is not subtle storytelling.

Isn't that basically an ad in the game? Yea it's corny and blunt, but so are real life ad slogans.

 

[sirap]

A little bit of research before posting this thread would've served you well OP.

 

[Brutuspedia]

I don't think Jesse Williams would be involved if the plot is disrespectful with real issues of today, they are working it carefully.

The link is intentional and will be good.

 

[combine42]

I don't think this is an issue.

 

[joe_zazen]

If you were a private firm turning out a line of autonomous humanoid servants, you would be absolutely mad to do anything to set off your consumers' buried moral guilt. You would quite specifically create robots that, out of prejudice or whatever else, the owners are more inclined to treat as equal partners and employees rather than an unjustly bound, potentially revolutionary threat.

You are right. Moreover, the only humanoid ones would be companionship bots. Industrial/work ones would not be humanoid nor sentient. Nobody is going to want to own slaves.

I thought Cage hired actual writers for this one.

 

[Heckler456]

That's where a lot of my fears lie. A bunch of posters are giving me shit because you see robots of colour in the trailer, but unless their stories are told, they're just window dressing. I will fully accept that I didn't realize that one of the protagonists was based on a real person who is mixed race however.

Regardless of anything said here, this game's subject isn't about slavery based on race. The race of the androids here should arguably not even be important here, because we're talking about the subjugation of what is essentially a life-form created by us.

 

[Psykotik]

OP should stop and request for a thread lock before making himself look any worse.

 

[Hedge]

Is detroit built upon the Kara tech demo? Eh?