CountBlack
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Why SFIV is better than SFV - A Novel by CountBlack
Were going to start off with the Neutral Game.
Why I prefer the neutral game in general in SFIV, is for a variety of different reasons;
+ Longer ranged normals
+ Proximity normals which added another layer onto the ground game
+ Better walkspeeds, slower dashes making for a slower more thought out ground game
+ Better and more solid AA's which were damn near guaranteed
+ Fireball game was a lot better
+ Reacting & Whiff punishing normals was a lot more viable
- Focus attacks, which didn't ruin the neutral game, but added an unnecessary risk to using slower buttons that couldn't be cancelled
Don't get me wrong though, some characters in 4 didn't really give a shit about a neutral game and could bypass that lol. Viper while being a really complex character, was never a 'Street Fighter' type character. Her game was never about playing footsies because she didn't excel at that, she excelled at just doing shit lol. El Fuerte was an agent of chaos too. Oh and Seth. Seth was a mistake and anyone playing against or playing Seth can agree he was a mistake. I'm not gonna fault divekick characters for divekicking because that's what they were meant to do lol. Apart from that, every other character had to play a ground game to really get by.
What I like and don't like about the neutral game in SFV;
- Crush Counters in Neutral
- Priority System
- Fast and sometimes unreactable dashes
- Jump ins with amazing hitboxes
- AA's with terrible hitboxes
- Stubby short ranged normals
- No proximity normals
- Slower walkspeeds for majority of the cast (Not for everyone, (looking at you Cammy) )
- Extra input lag
- Fireball game outside of Guile isn't that great.
Not all of the cast has stubby normals, but they've made it a point to shorten them by a lot. What this ended up doing, was that it made dashing in a lot more viable. Most of your longer range pokes are stuck to the heavier normals with longer recovery. I've won probably over a 1000 rounds by just dashing in and command throwing someone for having the audacity to sit there and block and I've also probably lost over 1000 rounds by deciding to block and getting rag dolled across the screen. Alright, so to counter this, you start throwing out longer range buttons preemptively to counter a potential dash in. Then that makes jumping in easier when the opponent is thinking you'll dash forward instead. Yes it is mindgames, but it isn't what a neutral game is supposed to be about IMO. The extra input lag is what dampers the ability to simply deal with this by reacting. Add in with dashes in general being a lot quicker in this game as well. Let me just mention the only reason why dashing in is seen as the way to go is because the regular walkspeeds across the board are a lot slower. I really don't like how fast dashes are in this game added with input lag. It really reminds me of SFIV Makoto, with her terrible walkspeed but amazing forward and backdashes which worked for Makoto but not a damn whole game full of them. Like S1 Nash under 8f lag with his unreactable dash was winning tournaments. By the time you see the dash, react by pressing a button, there's a solid chance you're already in a blockstring or getting tossed lol.
Jump ins. Anti airing in this game is a lot harder than it was in 4. Since you try to concentrate so hard on the ground to make sure an opponent doesn't get free dashes, you end up letting jump ins slide since by the time you really react to it, you might be too late unless you have a trusty AA jab. The hitbox/hurtbox on some jump ins are really wonky. SFIV Sakura j.HP type wonky where there's that 30% chance it just might cut through your AA like a hot knife through butter. In SFIV, when someone jumped at me, I knew that whatever AA I chose, that it'd work and they'd regret it. In SFV, when certain characters jump at me, I feel like I'm playing slots on if my AA will work out not. I've never seen Daigo and Momochi eat so many jump ins in my life. It actually made me feel relieved, that the same issues I'm having, some of the greatest players of all time are dealing with it poorly as well. The risk/reward for jumping in in SFV is really out of wack. If I jump in with Laura for example, if the character AA's me, I take maybe 50-60 damage depending on which button used. If it's an AA Jab, I gotta hold a mixup afterwards. If my jump in connects though? I could potentially steamroll and win instantly. In IV, if I jumped in on a Ryu with meter? Das it. Jump in on Balrog? Das it. Jumping in on 90% of the cast in IV was just hanging yourself. In V, it's a viable approach. I've never seen a street fighter where jumping in was often a great idea.
AA's in this game are really just all over the place, I really don't know what Capcom is thinking/trying to do. S1 AA jabs were better than majority of the AA's in the game. Going into S2, they nerfed AA jabs to not make them as viable.. but yet they still are fully functional (except for maybe Alex, rip). So what was the point of it? Was it to make you 2nd guess your AA to let jump ins slide? Was it to make jump-ins connect at a higher rate? Was it to make you use other buttons/DP's as AA's but yet .. AA jabs are still a more viable approach? What is it? And why do characters with DP's also have some of the best AA jabs in the game? I'd honestly prefer if they chose to make it Guilty Gear style and make AA jabs uniform across the whole cast like how 6P's are in Xrd. I've seen people lose tournament matches for trying to AA and getting stuffed out. I've lost tournament matches for trying to AA and getting stuffed out. It's just not fun. Universally I really hope to see them buff AA's across the board, take out AA jabs but give AA mediums and heavies that don't necessarily lead into 50/50 situations
better hitboxes to deal with jump ins. I don't even wanna get started on why Necalli has a dive kick and S1 Ryu's j.LK. In general, jump ins in this game all remind me of Gen in SFIV, with his really awkward angle and quick fall speed mixed in with Vergil's helm breaker.
Onto another reason why the neutral game in SFV suffers - Crush counters. I made another long write up on why they're stupid for the neutral game in the SFV OT, so I'm just gonna quote it over here.
Crush counters are bad for the neutral game in the same way that focus attacks were bad for neutral. Crush Counters are pretty much level 2 focus attacks in neutral without the armour. Giving you a full crumple combo into 50/50 situations since the game lacks defensive options. It's just.. really really bad. Cool idea just poorly implemented. If the game had more defensive options then maybe it'd be fine, but.. the game doesn't have that.
Oh and normals that are +3 with crush counter properties? lmao WHO thought of this
To continue with normals.. I really don't like the direction they took with a lot of the normals in V. I don't like how stubby some of them are. For example, the shoto cr.MK is supposed to be a staple to the character. Long range, great poke to check dashes and characters walking forward.. sigh
From these beautys
to this no range struggle
I just.. don't like the direction they took with some normals. No proximity normals cut down on like half of the potential buttons you could use which killed the variety of the up close game a bit. I know some people would prefer to have more unique attacks/normals but they didn't add that in for a replacement. For example, Ryu's st.MK in V is a good poke from a distance, but you wouldn't want to use it close up. So now you're kinda forced to just do the same string of st.MP x2 or cr.MP x2 because the variety of buttons up close are lacking. It's all you have to go to. In SFIV, you could use Ryu's st.MK for a far poke, but up close you could use his close. st.MK for combos that kept Ryu closer and gave you more options for what you can do afterwards. Example, with SFIV Ryu, if you do Solar Plexus -> cr.HP -> ex fireball -> U1, it won't work outside of FADC. On some characters, Ryu could just do Solar Plexus -> st.MK -> ex fireball -> U1 and it'd hit because it left him closer than cr.HP does. That's just an example of the variety that came with proximity normals that this game is lacking since they didn't replace it with anything.
Onto the fireball game.
The fireball game in SFIV was strong. Focus attacks didn't kill the FB game the way parries killed it in 3s. Absorbing fireballs against Sagat/Guile wasn't gonna make the plasma barrage stop. Fireball and anti airing were so essential in IV. They went hand in hand together. Many characters could play a solid fireball game and win off of it. Except Dan lol. In SFV only Guile really gets to play a strong fireball and win strictly off of it. And in V, after you a throw a fireball.. is you're AA going to work? There's an added risk if it's not an invincible attack. In IV, your AA's were guaranteed at least. There's so many anti fireball tools in V that the fireball game is really neutered.
Reacting/Whiff Punishing/Input Lag/Attacks that start up way2damn fast.
In SFV, S1 started out at 8f or a little under of input lag. Now it's down to I believe 5.9-6.3. Which is a big upgrade from what it was to start off but it could be better. SFIV (on 360) was at I think 4f or something around there. Anyway, in SFV, walking and blocking isn't as viable an approach as it was in IV. Some attacks start up ridiculously fast, and can lead to guessing situations combo'd into an L. An example of these are Urien's ex. tackle and Balrog's ex rush punches. Urien's ex tackle starts up in 7f and moves forward extremely quickly. If you're at the midscreen and you're walking forward, you're already hit. You can't just react to him doing it and start holding down + back, by the time it's active and you're still walking forward, you're probably hit. Then into VT ggs. Balrog's ex low from full screen is lol, you thought walking forward or walking backwards was a smart idea but rip. In SFIV, if Balrog did any TAP or ex dashes, them shits got thrown or blown up on reaction. In SFV, you should consider yourself lucky if you didn't get hit.
Whiff punishing is viable in SFV, it's just a lot of normals like I mentioned earlier are stubby. In SFV it's mostly wish punishing. But there are some great players that can whiff punish moves/specials on a whim and kudos to them. It was something that was a lot more natural to do in IV than it was in V IMO.
Defensive tools.
SFIV had a plethora of defensive options to choose from. Which made the game a bit too defensive for some but at least gave you options to choose from when knocked down. From delayed wakeup to help against the vortex, to invincible backdashes, focus backdash, crouch tech (which is a gift and a curse) You had options to prevent you from getting ragdolled.
In SFV, all you got are a V-Reversal which will get blocked or thrown 5 times outta 10 and a 3f hail mary jab. The rest of it is pure guessing and prayers. SFV is all about 50/50's. You got legendary players getting dunked by somebody who started playing FG's this year because they guessed wrong multiple times.
Watching Dieminion in the corner in IV was art b. Opening up Dieminion in the corner was gonna take work. In V tho, him just like any other top player or lower level player just gotta go by their gut and just guess. Is it a throw or shimmy? Oh he has a throw loop? rip. SFV had one defensive option that gave players a way to deal with the pressure. I didn't see a single complaint about it from anyone.. and Capcom took it away. They want this game to be hyper offensive and I'm just not a fan of it. I liked the slower pace that IV took. I've said it before but IV felt like chess while V feels like football. The game really needs another defensive mechanic because V-Reversals aren't enough.
V-Triggers vs Ultra's.
V-Triggers ended up being one of the most frustrating comeback mechanics (shoutouts to Laura bois) that I've ever went against. You can play well for so long, get clipped once and lose instantly. I'll admit that the way characters got Ultra bar was pretty backwards though. But to actually get hit by an Ultra, the player would either have to combo into it using resources or use it as a punish. In V.. V-Triggers are strong on block and hit. If I don't confirm a button into VT on block, I'm still mad positive and am able to force a 50/50 situation. If I hit.. there's a strong chance you might lose instantly from 100%. If Balrog hits you with cr.MK TC and you have 100%, you might be dead. Urien confirms into Aegis, shit most of the cast (not you Fang) you might be put into multiple 50/50 situations following and lose for guessing wrong. Ultra's weren't about just guessing wrong. (Healing wasn't a mistake btw).
Variety in gameplay.
In V, every character can play a strong rushdown game. Every character. I've been rushed down by Dhalsim players harder than I've been rushed down by Balrog players in recent matches. The game promotes hyper offensive gameplay with no defensive options to deal with it. We got Dhalsim (which has an amazing design in V tbh), getting up in your face, putting you into 50/50 situations with air gale or throw situations that you gotta just hold. While Sim can be played defensively, he can also play just as offensive as half the cast if need be. Same with Guile, a defensive character who's offense can be stronger than most of the cast. This just leads to the game feeling like every character is a rushdown character that you just gotta choose how you wanna rush down. This is what happens when you neuter the neutral game with worse buttons overall and remove a lot of the extra specials the cast had.
In IV, Sagat/Guile/Gouken/Poison could play that strong fireball game and turtle the whole match. Then you had neutral heavy characters that wasn't necessarily strong rush down characters, but wanted to just play neutral in Rose/Vega/E Honda/Fei Long/Bison/Chun. Dive kick characters that did what dive kick characters do. Rush down characters that wanted to stay in your face the entire time. And then KOF characters like C Viper and the mistake that was El Fuerte. Also, grapplers were slow outside of Abel. Grapplers in V can get in your face and throw loop you within seconds lol. Hugo/Zangief/T Hawk had to work their way in. Oiled Hakan was.. too much.
Skill ceiling
Since the betas, I was saying that the ceiling for this game would be low. Capcom made sure to limit a lot of potential that characters could have by limiting the combo system and removing tools and specials from characters. Everything in the game is very easy to do, which I am for and also have a problem against.
Watching Sako do work in SFIV was amazing because I knew that only he could do it. He put in the work and time to be able to do what he could do and that shit was beautiful b. In V, they added the 3f buffer to make combos easier. Now, I'm not against this particularly, because 1f links weren't for everyone, but I liked that variety. I liked that if you wanted to do the max damage combo, you had to hit that harder link to squeeze out that extra 50-60 damage. I liked that you had that choice. In V, doing the max damage combo is a breeze that anyone can do which makes the game a lot less exciting to watch. Mastering/Learning a character like Gen or C. Viper in SFIV, could take months to get at a proficient level with. Mastering/Learning the most complex character in V maybe Ibuki or Fang, could take maybe.. an hour or two to get to a platinum level at least. There's really not much to learn, they've taken so much away leaving nothing in return. You can learn to play Balrog at his potential in about 36 minutes in V. You could probably rob a pro player in a round or two with 40 minutes.
So now that any random joe can learn to play any character at max potential within an hour. What's impressive now that everyone can do it?
Every character is tailored to play the same between players. It's just so easy in this game. If you have Phenom/Haitani/Gamerbee's Necalli's on stream without a name tag, I wouldn't know who it was. If you put up Kbrad/Kazunoko/Xiao Hai on stream without a name tag, again, I wouldn't know who's Cammy it was. There's just not enough options to make them play differently. If everyone plays every character similarly, what's impressive? In SFIV I knew the difference between Dieminon/Nuckle Du's Guiles. Daigo/Sako's Evil Ryu's. Luffy/Filipino Man's Rose.
In IV, I enjoyed putting time into training mode and grinding out execution. Being able to hit those tough combos were extremely satisfying because my time in the lab paid off. There's nothing in V as satisfying as hitting a dash U2 with Deejay. Not a single damn thing.
I also really didn't like that they constantly took away moves and specials from characters in V. They kept minimizing their potential by doing this. In IV, they weren't afraid to give the characters all their original moves and some more. In V they constantly took away without giving characters anything new back. Urien was the only character that felt fully intact and that's why he's one of my favourite designed characters in the game.
In IV, characters had a great toolset of attacks. Outside of Necalli (prehistoric Seth), characters are just so basic and limited. Karin had a command throw, Gief had a green hand, Chun had Hozanshui (sp? lol), Ibuki's neckbreaker & Tsumuji, Bison's Psycho crusher.. list goes on. Why did they take away so many specials?
Unblockables vs Guessing
SFIV had some bullshit no doubt. Hard to blockables + unblockable situations. And for both, you had options against them. If the game didn't have defensive options, then there would be a problem/SFV.
SFV, you probably have unblockable situations because I have no idea what's going on here. Unblockables with defensive options (basically having to use a focus backdash or delayed wakeup) or situations where you just gotta pray you guess right. Personally, I liked having options against getting dunked several times in a row. With throw loops, blocking is usually not the best idea. But then if you jump, you still get AA'd into another guessing situations (against regular throws at least), if you backdash you risk getting counter hit'd into more damage. It's just all rock/paper/scissors constantly and I'm just not a big fan.
SFIV's faults.
From unblockables, Ultra probably being the worst version by poorly porting over half baked janky SFxT characters into the game, adding extra mechanics that weren't really necessary in Red Focus (W-Ultra was a cool idea though, not against it tbh). Seth and them not buffing Deejay properly. Focus attacks in neutral. I really enjoyed the FADC system of cancelling attacks but not just using the focus in neutral. Personally, I think DP's outside of ex should not have been able to be FADC'd so you have to commit to it, but oh well.
okay I think I'm done. I actually hit the character limit and had to cut out a section lmao.
tl;dr SFIV > SFV
you wanted a novel so here you go
also, if anyone actually reads all this shit then you're crazy lmao
